|
The issue with the Confederacy show is less the show itself, and more the timing of the announcement and current political climate in America imo. If D&D made the show 5 years ago I bet there wouldn't be such a huge stink about it, but at this moment in time it's a bit too close to home for many.
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 19:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 13:06 |
|
|
The Little Kielbasa posted:Does Man in the High Castle deal with the Holocaust? Like, are they rounding up Jewish people in the US and putting them in death camps? They "finished" that. Its supposed to be horrifying but...
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 19:54
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:
Roots?
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 20:07
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Roots? Wasn't actually horrifying enough by far.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 20:15
|
|
|
lucasfilm seems to have rigid standards for what they want their internal professional culture to be like if d&d are the dumb dudebros they come off as in every appearance i've ever seen by them (and in every backstage story), i think there's about a 99.9% chance they'll run afoul of those standards and get fired long before they get their star war into production
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 20:23
|
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:lucasfilm seems to have rigid standards for what they want their internal professional culture to be like I don't know..Star Wars is a pretty "dudebro" story as it is now, and they'd probably fit right in. Unless they try to add a bunch of senselessly grim murder and titties it should be fine. I don't think Star Wars is sophisticated enough for them to gently caress up.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 20:40
|
|
|
chaosapiant posted:I don't know..Star Wars is a pretty "dudebro" story as it is now, and they'd probably fit right in. Unless they try to add a bunch of senselessly grim murder and titties it should be fine. I don't think Star Wars is sophisticated enough for them to gently caress up. what im talking about isn't what they'll write, but like...how they administer their project, how they run the production d&d are purportedly bad at this and it's likely what we keep seeing dudes get fired for over at lucasfilm
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 20:48
|
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:what im talking about isn't what they'll write, but like...how they administer their project, how they run the production Ah, ok. I hadn’t heard anything regarding their inability to manage. At the very least they finished (part) of a story the original author couldn’t. But that bar isn’t high.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 21:02
|
|
|
chaosapiant posted:Ah, ok. I hadn’t heard anything regarding their inability to manage. At the very least they finished (part) of a story the original author couldn’t. But that bar isn’t high. Everyone fast travel to location 1, fight big battle, some die. Everyone fast travel to location 2, fight big battle, some die. They're doing about the simplest finishing possible.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 21:10
|
|
|
pseudanonymous posted:Everyone fast travel to location 1, fight big battle, some die. Everyone fast travel to location 2, fight big battle, some die. They're doing about the simplest finishing possible. Fast travel is called the warp drive.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 21:18
|
|
|
If confederacy is actually about abolitionists murdering their way through modern southern slave owners then it'll be a great show, like the wolfensteins. But it'll actually be about how southern slave owners are morally complicated people who love their families and "treat them nice" because dnd are loving idiot hacks
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 23:43
|
|
|
Has GRRM ever been called out on his depiction of POC? Because between promiscous Summer Islanders who venerate prostitutes at "temples of love" and Naathi who frolic naked with butterflies all day and are so pacifistic they refuse to fight even in self-defense, it's some serious noble savage poo poo.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2019 23:44
|
|
|
The Little Kielbasa posted:Does Man in the High Castle deal with the Holocaust? Like, are they rounding up Jewish people in the US and putting them in death camps? Any living jewish or black person is in the neutral zone, a buffer between the Nazi and Japanese empires that's a stretch of the Rocky Mountains and New Mexico, or the Japanese empire. In the neutral zone they're hunted by nazi bounty hunters. In the Japanese empire they're the bottom of the caste system. In the nazi empire they go full eugenics and DNA test people and execute you if you carry anything that is "undesirable". Like if you have a degenerative spine disease they just wipe out your bloodline on the spot. It's scary as gently caress but of course Cletus the chinless carrier of treacher-collins with the first grade education thinks it's a beautiful vision of the perfect world for his master race.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 00:01
|
|
|
GodFish posted:If confederacy is actually about abolitionists murdering their way through modern southern slave owners then it'll be a great show, like the wolfensteins. But it'll actually be about how southern slave owners are morally complicated people who love their families and "treat them nice" because dnd are loving idiot hacks Don't forget loads of southern lower- and middle- class white folks wringing their hands saying "slavery might not be the best system..." instead of being ruthlessly complicit in it. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Roots? Well you've got me there I guess. Has anyone watched the 2016 remake? It has a surprisingly good cast for something I had never heard of before today. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 01:22 on May 8, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 00:51
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
GodFish posted:If confederacy is actually about abolitionists murdering their way through modern southern slave owners then it'll be a great show, like the wolfensteins. But it'll actually be about how southern slave owners are morally complicated people who love their families and "treat them nice" because dnd are loving idiot hacks Hopefully, it's just 1984 with scenes of black people being whipped and chained spliced in.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 00:52
|
|
|
Karpaw posted:Has GRRM ever been called out on his depiction of POC? Because between promiscous Summer Islanders who venerate prostitutes at "temples of love" and Naathi who frolic naked with butterflies all day and are so pacifistic they refuse to fight even in self-defense, it's some serious noble savage poo poo. its been discussed yes not really noble savage specifically, so much as a general orientalism GRRM, i think, tends to write non-westeros locations as a reflection of medieval european people's perceptions of distant lands mongols and other steppe nomads were (and are) more than just screaming savages who overran settled lands in unnumbered hordes, and GRRM is history buff enough to know this. But that's how they were perceived and recorded in european & near-eastern period writings, so that's how their planetos counterparts, the dothraki, are. similarly, the old urban civilizations of the fertile crescent and southern asia were more than just comically-decadent repositories of ancient forbidden lore, but old europeans sorta saw them that way, so that's how their planetos versions (qarth, the slaver cities, and eastern essos) are depicted. emulating medieval european attitudes in this case, while effective for atmosphere-building, ends up problematic since medieval europeans' ideas about this...were bad. ALTERNATIVELY im overthinking it and these locations are written that way in imitation/homage to old sword&sorcery fantasy fiction GRRM likes, which as a movement was 99% written by overt white supremacists and thus perhaps should not be emulated PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 01:00 on May 8, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 00:57
|
|
|
i think it'd be fine to have something like, say, the Summer Islands present as this more tolerant society against which westeros can be compared unfavorably you're allowed to have a civilization in your world that is generally more enlightened than that of your protagonists - in fact that's cool to do, i.m.o. it's just, if you're gonna do that, it is maybe a bit dubious that the cultural differences you're highlighting are 100% about loving, 100% of the time granted i suppose we could blame in-character westeros Patriarchy Gaze for that but there's other stuff about the summer islands that should croggle westerosi brains enough that they'd remark on it "even more womens' rights than the dornish? impossible!" shouted Ser Brodar PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 01:11 on May 8, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 01:06
|
|
|
A GLISTENING HODOR posted:Man in the High Castle does an amazing job of depicting the "perfect nazi society" where there's no crime (because every offense results in automatic execution) and no illness (because every sick person is executed) and no complicated social issues (because anyone who has questions in their head is executed) and it is a deeply terrifying world for anyone who is sane and passes for a real human being by having empathy. The only way a High Castle-like production would NOT end up being adopted by chuds as a model of an ideal society would be if the ruling tyrants were black or brown. Show them Comandante Ramirez throwing pasty gamers into mass graves for jaywalking and toking up in his glorious new regime and they'd come out hard for multicultiralism and democracy*. *: Who are we kidding, they'd just go "See, this is -already- happening in real life! We gotta do it to them before they do it to us!"
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 01:08
|
|
|
Which one of you made this totally legitimate Kickstarter that offers signatures from the cast for pledges?quote:My name is Daniel and I am a big fan of Game of Thrones, I own a company named William's LLC (We are multi-conglomerate which specializes in design, computer infrastructure and much more). I asked myself why don't I make a a card game based on the George RR Martin Song of Ice and Fire Books, it could be as big as Pokemon? I have been toying with the idea for a long time now, but never decided to start such a project. quote:You keep track of your points with our revolutionary counting machine that comes with the game.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 01:21
|
|
|
A set of cards signed by the entire cast of Game Of Thrones, VERY LIMITED (100 out of 100 remain)
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 01:43
|
|
|
A GLISTENING HODOR posted:Man in the High Castle does an amazing job of depicting the "perfect nazi society" where there's no crime (because every offense results in automatic execution) and no illness (because every sick person is executed) and no complicated social issues (because anyone who has questions in their head is executed) and it is a deeply terrifying world for anyone who is sane and passes for a real human being by having empathy. This is why MITHC is bad. It wants to be better than it is and all it ends up being is tantalizing Nazi porn for American fascists.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 01:47
|
|
|
Intel&Sebastian posted:This is why MITHC is bad. It wants to be better than it is and all it ends up being is tantalizing Nazi porn for American fascists. On one hand, it does an excellent job of portraying fascism as evil. On the other hand, that gives fascists an erection. See also: all war movies, Handmaid's Tale, Schindler's List, etc.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 01:58
|
|
|
A GLISTENING HODOR posted:On one hand, it does an excellent job of portraying fascism as evil. american history X also suffers badly from this.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:00
|
|
|
This is why I agree with Mel Brooks, 1000%, that it is absolutely worthwhile and necessary to make a joke of Hitler. When you portray fascism as evil incarnate and something to be feared it only gives power to fascists who are too loving stupid to see the problems in the details and just love the power (see: nazis thinking American History X is a kickass movie and missing the point). When you show Hitler making GBS threads his pants and slipping in the poo poo it completely removes that power and shows he's just a man. We know he's a monster. gently caress him. He was also a clownish little man who should be belittled by everyone forever.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:04
|
|
|
A GLISTENING HODOR posted:On one hand, it does an excellent job of portraying fascism as evil. This is why the best war movie is Jarhead
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:08
|
|
|
Mr. Nemo posted:A set of cards signed by the entire cast of Game Of Thrones, VERY LIMITED
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:12
|
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:And GRRM is history buff enough to know this. Do we have any evidence that he is, in fact, a history buff? We know he's a morbidly obese elderly nerd but that doesn't mean he actually knows anything about real history. This is a man who described a 700-foot-tall ice wall, bear in mind, without taking a single moment to think on just how tall 700 feet actually is.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:17
|
|
|
It's kind of impressive that a 50 year old from New Jersey didn't understand the concept of a 70 story building.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:24
|
|
|
Kylaer posted:Do we have any evidence that he is, in fact, a history buff? We know he's a morbidly obese elderly nerd but that doesn't mean he actually knows anything about real history. Or that building it would require a massive civilization effort. Or institutions that last 8000 years. Or civilizations that don't change in thousands of years. Or medieval seeming civilizations where nobody gives a poo poo about religion. Or running a kingdom that spans thousands of miles. Or having a city on the edge of the ocean of a million people. Or a lot of other things.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:27
|
|
|
I'm not even sure what the gently caress a modern day Confederacy would look like. The real Confederacy was a bunch of wannabe European nobility declaring a state based on racial supremacy to keep the lower (white) classes believing they were equal and give them someone to look down on, then drafting said poor whites to die in droves for Robert E Lee's ego. (Pickett's charge, anyone?). You need to get past the fact that the European nations the Confederacy so desperately courted despised slavery, the Confederacy's severe disadvantages in industry and manpower, the general ineptitude of fuckups like Jefferson Davis, and the great leadership of Abraham Lincoln. But ok, I'm sure D&D are bad enough writers to ignore all that poo poo and have McClellan win the election or some poo poo but also have this dumbfuck government survive to present day. Now what? The dirty secret is that they're basically just Nazis to the point where they inspired Hitler. You could write a slave revolt I guess?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:27
|
|
|
TheGreatEvilKing posted:I'm not even sure what the gently caress a modern day Confederacy would look like. It’d look like South Africa under apartheid.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:36
|
|
|
People have said that Brazil is kinda like a modern-day Confederacy and... yeah, I can kinda see it. (We abolished slavery in 1888, FYI)
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:36
|
|
|
Kylaer posted:
i dont know why people say this probably when you describe what is meant to be an impossibly huge structure whose existence is inexplicable, you make it impossibly huge on purpose
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:41
|
|
|
TheGreatEvilKing posted:I'm not even sure what the gently caress a modern day Confederacy would look like. well, there haven't been a lot of modern great powers whose economies are built on a feudal aristocracy trafficking one (1) cash crop thru means of a huge permanently oppressed underclass so im gonna go out on a limb and say that all of the alternative histories where the CSA smoothly transitions into a great power and imperializes central+south america are way off i think you could get some imperial conflicts with other powers attempting to contain CSA imperialization attempts, followed by the CSA gradually collapsing into a failed state as the plantation system is obsoleted PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 02:56 on May 8, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 02:54
|
|
|
Yeah, the problem with Confederacy wins alt-history is that slavery was dying anyways with tech and international trade. Like the Confederate States would have absolutely died after a decade or two because they had nothing to trade except tobacco and northern states and Canada could still strong-arm them on crop prices because they were economic titans compared to the south. And that's before you even get into the fact that slavery was a social blight in the modern world of the late 1800s, with most everyone looking down on it. The south would have ended slavery on its own within a decade or two just to try to keep itself afloat in the rapidly changing early global economy.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 03:00
|
|
|
They almost certainly would not have, the only reason for secession and fighting the war in the first place was to preserve slavery, and there was no compelling economic reason for the slaveholding elite to do anything about it. When it was becoming clear they had lost the war, some people proposed freeing slaves to fight in the army to save the CSA, and it was a wildly unpopular idea. If they couldn't enslave all blacks what was even the point? An attempt to force blacks to work in sweatshop style factories to complete with Northern industrialism seems far more likely. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 03:18 on May 8, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 03:15
|
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:i dont know why people say this Pretty sure The Absolute Fucker himself admitted he hosed that one up. IIRC, he saw the wall on the show and thought it was too high and they were like, dude, this is half the height of the wall in the books.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 03:20
|
|
|
But then you have "Company X employs white Americans building real products, Company Y builds cheap poo poo using slaves" which would have played very well with olde timey racists that weren't keen on slavery. And keep in mind no one was keen on trading with slavers by that point. The South would have absolutely poo poo itself inside out within a generation because 150 rich farmers and a shitzillion poor people with no infrastructure and no trade and no allies wasn't even kind of stable or viable.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 03:29
|
|
|
Oh their economy absolutely would not have worked, you're right that they would have collapsed into a failed state basically immediately, that just wouldn't have been enough for them to give up slavery. Have they said when Confederate supposedly takes place? It is 1900s or modern day?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 03:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 13:06 |
|
|
PupsOfWar posted:i dont know why people say this Or you're just a thoughtless manbaby saying "its the greatest wall ever" "the biggest ever" I mean I don't really give a poo poo if fantasy is fantastic, but "Planetos" is not presented as a fantastic world, it's presented as grim and dark and gritty. Then it has poo poo like a wall that makes no sense in about 10 different ways.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2019 03:45
|
|