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Wow that's an awful quote.
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May 10, 2019 09:45
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That kinda weaselly bullshit is absolutely infuriating. Both the "kEeP pOlItIcS oUt Of FaNtAsY" and "Wow this guy sure is a straight up Nazi but he says the right things!" poo poo. On the first point, this thread has some good points on how fashy types either really struggle to do the basics of textual analysis or deliberately ignore even surface level text 'coz it contradicts their world view and how their demands for apoliticallity is a smokescreen: https://twitter.com/DumbCerb/status/1126255904591089665
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May 10, 2019 11:05
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open_sketchbook posted:Honestly, Warhammer Total War is a much more practical way of playing WHFB anyway. Further cementing how relevant this is to the thread - Skaven started off life as a fascist analogy. Skinheads etc.
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May 10, 2019 11:13
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FactsAreUseless posted:This thread is open again. I know this is a topic that touches on a lot of others, but please try to keep the focus on tabletop gaming - RPGs or otherwise - and try to keep some of the derails out. Don't be afraid to start new threads in D&D or CSPAM for non-gaming politics arguments. It's totally fine to spin them off into their own threads. Based on the conversations I've had with the admins and mods I'm going to take a much more hands off approach towards moderating this thread. Please report anything that needs to be addressed.
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May 10, 2019 12:49
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So what fantasy settings should be avoided/giving fans of said settings the side-eye? I'm talking settings that wholly embrace the poo poo and the creators have either never backed down, or double-down on the embracement of everything wrong with the setting?
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May 10, 2019 12:51
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Randalor posted:So what fantasy settings should be avoided/giving fans of said settings the side-eye? I'm talking settings that wholly embrace the poo poo and the creators have either never backed down, or double-down on the embracement of everything wrong with the setting? Broncosaurus Rex. Deadlands gets pretty drat Lost Cause-y as well, but the fans can honestly be much more critical of it than the devs ever were.
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May 10, 2019 12:55
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Gor
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May 10, 2019 13:32
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Isn't Gor just literally porn?
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May 10, 2019 14:06
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:Isn't Gor just literally porn? Not quite. It’s a lot of porn, but it’s also a sword and planet fantasy series (with an RPG forthcoming from James Desborough, Gamergate idiot), and it’s a lifestyle guide for some extreme BDSM types.
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May 10, 2019 14:17
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Also anyone who professes to enjoy Terry Goodkind past the age of 13 is probably fash as hell, or at least a randroid.
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May 10, 2019 14:36
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Randalor posted:So what fantasy settings should be avoided/giving fans of said settings the side-eye? RaHoWa (Which stands for "Racial Holy War.") MYFAROG (An rpg by Varg Vikernes.) F.A.T.A.L. ("The date rape rpg, without dating.")
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May 10, 2019 14:52
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Deified Data posted:Also anyone who professes to enjoy Terry Goodkind past the age of 13 is probably fash as hell, or at least a randroid.
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May 10, 2019 14:57
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SteelMentor posted:That kinda weaselly bullshit is absolutely infuriating. Both the "kEeP pOlItIcS oUt Of FaNtAsY" and "Wow this guy sure is a straight up Nazi but he says the right things!" poo poo. I think he was mostly referring to how Japanese developers do not post about politics and mostly just post pictures of themselves on twitter. Edit: this guy is also an objectively well known troll who drops poo poo like this non-stop and a gamergater
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May 10, 2019 15:15
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I second a write up on Arch, cause I really didn't have any context for who he was before I opened up a video of his on the new Warhammer children's books that started with him bitching about 'the SJWS at Games Workshop'. I know his bad, but I don't know the depths of the poo poo hes done/said.
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May 10, 2019 17:04
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mcclay posted:I second a write up on Arch, cause I really didn't have any context for who he was before I opened up a video of his on the new Warhammer children's books that started with him bitching about 'the SJWS at Games Workshop'. I know his bad, but I don't know the depths of the poo poo hes done/said. He’s recently made some videos about VtM bloodlines 2 lore, and this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wABVTbOQygY which I have not watched because it is probably vile.
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May 10, 2019 17:17
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I cannot read the name of the vikarnes rpg without immediately thinking "HIM NAME IS HOPKIN GREEN FAROG" "P.S. I'LL FIND MYFAROG WHO TOOK MYFAROG"
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May 10, 2019 17:23
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Thanks to FAU for reopening the thread. I'm tied up the next couple days but will finally do a write-up when I'm free. Or if someone else wants to I'll add it to the OP.
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May 10, 2019 17:24
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Mors Rattus posted:Deadlands gets pretty drat Lost Cause-y as well, but the fans can honestly be much more critical of it than the devs ever were. Deadlands is interesting in that its writers are ignoring increasingly loud calls from its own playerbase to drop the Lost Cause poo poo, insisting that they're being "mature" and can't change their metaplot arc. Which makes it clearer and clearer that yes that always was Lost Cause poo poo, the line writers are just now getting defensive because they're being called on it.
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May 10, 2019 19:00
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Loxbourne posted:Deadlands is interesting in that its writers are ignoring increasingly loud calls from its own playerbase to drop the Lost Cause poo poo, insisting that they're being "mature" and can't change their metaplot arc. Which makes it clearer and clearer that yes that always was Lost Cause poo poo, the line writers are just now getting defensive because they're being called on it. It's really disappointing and I was honestly disgusted when they brought that poo poo to Doomtown. Luckily the Pine Box people have basically dropped it. Although I do have a couple of loving cards with Confederate flags on 'em from legacy sets. Assholes. They've made up for it a little by turning the Good Guy Faction 100 Righteous Dragons into commie anarchists and giving them a home base called "Property is Theft". Not exactly an offset but it's something.
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May 10, 2019 19:02
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So how do goons in this thread feel about Kevin Siembieda? EDIT: Personally, I've never bought anything from Palladium, but from what I've read in reviews here and elsewhere, I have a lot of questions that I've never heard good answers to either one way or the other. SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 19:33 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 19:28
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SirPhoebos posted:So how do goons in this thread feel about Kevin Siembieda? I mean, he’s a lovely person but I’ve never heard of him being much of a Chudlington, politically speaking? But apart from Palldium Fantasy I’ve never read much of 
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May 10, 2019 19:33
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The closest thing to Chud-like from Kevin his how the Coalition in Rifts is written. They're basically Nazi Germany but in America and with robot armor, and a very "human first" attitude. Which is great if you need an unapologetically evil enemy for your game, but iirc the game also comes out and says "well maybe they've got something going on there and they're not ALL bad" which uh, is kind of yikes.
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May 10, 2019 19:43
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Literally in the FATAL thread the current book about the Coalition invading a neighboring kingdom of mages for the explicitl purpose of genociding them is desperately trying to make it out that BOTH sides are evil. It's loving garbage.
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May 10, 2019 19:46
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Generally 'human supremacist' factions are really problematic, not just in the sense that they're fash but that they function to convince less fash people to side with fascists. Because in the real world, 'humanity' is the full sphere of people we can communicate with, and the oppression of humans is something that decent people care about. So a 'humanist' faction that only directs genocidal evil against fantastical nonhumans seems to be standing up for a United humanity etc etc. It's very easy to conflate Star Trek style 'humans have inherent worth and racist aliens are bad' with 'humans need to destroy the aliens to take their rightful place in the universe' because the category of 'all humans' seems inherently harmless. This overlooks, of course, that fascists are all about declaring their scapegoats nonhuman. The Coalition can claim to be 'heroes of humanity' the same way any fascists do. It's a perfidious trick, and one that's deeply engrained in a lot of tabletop contexts (40K is maybe the most obvious, but I've definitely seen people defend the Star Wars Empire on similar grounds).
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May 10, 2019 20:01
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Joe Slowboat posted:Generally 'human supremacist' factions are really problematic, not just in the sense that they're fash but that they function to convince less fash people to side with fascists. I have a friend from highschool who's either extremely susceptible to this kind of thinking or extremely good at hiding being a bad person. He is very religious and obsessed with the crusades, obsessed with WW2 with wheraboo sentiments, loves vikings, loves 40k Black Templars, Imperial Guard, Star Wars Empire, and his profile picture on Steam has been the shield of the Teutonic Order for like 6 years. But he's also antifa and hates Donald Trump, wants an open border with Mexico like in the old days, and is just in general extremely nice to everyone he ever meets. He was in love with and got cheated on by someone not of his race and he was sad but got over it and is still friends with her and her family. I'm genuinely confused, maybe it's because I was in the gun community for so long that I'm used to racists being open and predictable but yeah. Maybe this guy is just insensitive and influenced by media. I keep thinking surely he will make a racist facebook post or say something horrible during a game of 40k but it never comes and it's been 10 years.
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May 10, 2019 20:49
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PinheadSlim posted:I have a friend from highschool who's either extremely susceptible to this kind of thinking or extremely good at hiding being a bad person. I mean media consumption preferences, while political, aren’t necessarily politically determinative?
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May 10, 2019 20:51
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I'm interested in WWII, like viking stuff and heavy metal, and hate fascists.
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May 10, 2019 21:08
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Bad guys and absolutist authoritarians make good fiction but terrible role models. As long as you can separate reality from fantasy, it's pretty ok to acknowledge that Darth Vader is cool or the Death Eaters have awesome uniforms. It's when people start using them as a proxy for broke-brain real ideas that it gets to be a red flag. E: Metal and Vikings are dope. WW2 is fascinating, and so is WW1. And gently caress fascism and white nationalism right in its chinless face. moths fucked around with this message at 21:18 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 21:14
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Schadenboner posted:I mean media consumption preferences, while political, aren’t necessarily politically determinative? People are very keen to add a moral dimension to art so that they can say definitively "this thing I don't like is fascist and therefore objectively bad". But very few pieces of art are 100% one way politically because a) with the exception of single-author stuff, large-scale pop art has input from many different kinds of people with many different ideologies and so therefore can become muddled on a close reading, b) even in single author work most people are not strictly 100% in any ideology and this will muddle things, and c) you never know what people are actually going to take from a work of media, it might be surface-level stuff like "drat these guys with cool tattoos and beards really kick rear end" without knowing about any of the larger contexts behind this stuff, or obsess over some minor detail. Like I have a friend who considered getting a Space Wolves tat which is honestly the most fash of fash Warhammer poo poo but he's the most milquetoast guy politically you can imagine. Mostly he worries about the sexism his two daughters are going to face. A long-winded way to say "don't judge people on their consumption preferences" with the exception that if someone throws it in your face immediately it probably indicates that they are identifying with it personally on some level and it can be a warning flag when paired with other behavior. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 22:25 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 21:18
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Thanks for all the good posts everyone, I think I'm gonna reach out to this guy and be friendlier towards him. This possible friendship never would have happened if the fash thread didn't re-open 
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May 10, 2019 21:25
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ChaseSP posted:Literally in the FATAL thread the current book about the Coalition invading a neighboring kingdom of mages for the explicitl purpose of genociding them is desperately trying to make it out that BOTH sides are evil. It's loving garbage. Also it's super weird towards women. That book specifically and often Palladium in general.
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May 10, 2019 21:42
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ChaseSP posted:Literally in the FATAL thread the current book about the Coalition invading a neighboring kingdom of mages for the explicitl purpose of genociding them is desperately trying to make it out that BOTH sides are evil. It's loving garbage. There's also the most recent supplement on the Coalition, titled "Heroes of Humanity". It came out in 2016. I have no idea what's in it and will allow for the possibility that the title is meant to be satirical, but given Palladium's past body of work, I'm not holding my breath.
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May 10, 2019 21:53
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Dawgstar posted:Also it's super weird towards women. That book specifically and often Palladium in general. Isn't Kingdom Death super notorious for this poo poo too? I've been too put off by just what I've heard that I never honestly looked into it.
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May 10, 2019 21:59
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Frankly if someone unironically prides their work as being GRIMDARK in 2019 they're probably really gross as a person and this will be reflected in their work.
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May 10, 2019 22:01
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ChaseSP posted:Frankly if someone unironically prides their work as being GRIMDARK in 2019 they're probably really gross as a person and this will be reflected in their work. Why shouldn’t art imitate life. Hellworld games for the hellworld timeline.
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May 10, 2019 22:05
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I really enjoyed the Black Company as a teenager, it's probably not very grimdark by modern standards but it blew my little mind that fantasy could have realistic and horrible concerns, like stopping rival mercenaries from raping a 9 year old girl. I should re-read it though, my memories of it are vague.
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May 10, 2019 22:10
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I don't know if Kingdom Death is fashy, and it'd be interesting to hear if it is, but it is certainly extremely creepy.
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May 10, 2019 22:19
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Grimdark is hard to pin down as everyone has their own personal meaning but mine is "a nihilistic view of existence where death is easy and life is miserable and filled with physical and mental oppression of various kinds." Essentially misery tourism. By this standard yes Kingdom Death is grimdark.
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May 10, 2019 22:25
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I'd define grimdark as "a setting where the narrative logic and universe physics are specifically rigged to produce as much suffering as possible for the author's amusement". 40K always turns me off as soon as they start with the big multi-page justifications for why they totally need an Inquisition and it totally has to commit justified genocide every other week. No, it's not because chaos is so insidious or whatever, it's because the authors really enjoy depicting genocide and slaughtering innocent people and don't want to be criticized for it.
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May 10, 2019 22:38
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Yeah, I kind of think you're maybe a touch off the mark there.
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May 10, 2019 22:40
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