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chaosapiant posted:Good lord this game is dense to me. I'm just not getting the hang of it. I've tried doing the "tutorial island" thing with Ireland a few times while watching YouTube vids, but I end up just getting bored and moving on to another game. I can see there's an awesome game here if I can just get to it. I had one of those little information bubbles at the top say that I could press a claim, but when I clicked it, it took me to that characters screen and there were not options to press a claim. I did find claim/title options under my "realm" control panel however. I also am not sure how to tell at a glance what my armies are doing (in this case I'm playing as Stannis in the Got mod) and how to move them around if needed. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3559664 this might help
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May 10, 2019 15:01
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Randaconda posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3559664 I'm at work, so i'm going to do the sensible thing and read through this today. Thanks for the link! I really wish this forum would let you favorite/bookmark archived threads btw.
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May 10, 2019 15:47
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chaosapiant posted:Good lord this game is dense to me. I'm just not getting the hang of it. I've tried doing the "tutorial island" thing with Ireland a few times while watching YouTube vids, but I end up just getting bored and moving on to another game. I can see there's an awesome game here if I can just get to it. I had one of those little information bubbles at the top say that I could press a claim, but when I clicked it, it took me to that characters screen and there were not options to press a claim. I did find claim/title options under my "realm" control panel however. I also am not sure how to tell at a glance what my armies are doing (in this case I'm playing as Stannis in the Got mod) and how to move them around if needed. So most of the time your armies are just chilling out wherever you have a castle. This is a very good thing because armies that aren't 'raised' are instead replenishing their losses and they aren't costing you gold. One thing you can try is going to your military screen and clicking the button to raise all of your levees (armies) and then watch as the following month your tax income drops as you pay for the army. This will give you a sense of the financial hardship involved in stomping around conquering people. Your vassals are all required to furnish a portion of their own troops when you call upon them and if you are a vassal in kind then your liege can demand the same from you. How many soldiers your vassals send has a set minimum that is determined by the laws on your laws screen, and the maximum is determined by how much they like you.
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May 10, 2019 16:08
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it's worth noting that vassal levies are not paid for by you (this is the reason raising them pisses your vassals off) and replenish MUCH faster (because they are all from different sources, each with their own replenishment), so if you have a firm grip on your kingdom/can afford the opinion penalties, raising your vassal levies is generally preferable to your personal ones. if you can't afford the opinion penalties or need something done FAST though, personal wins every time. your personal levies raise already organized.
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May 10, 2019 17:16
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And when I can raise 10k personal levies from my capital duchy, I sometimes don't bother raising 50 stacks of vassal levies that need half a year to congregate in one place, I just wage small wars with my personal levies.
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May 10, 2019 18:18
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reignofevil posted:So most of the time your armies are just chilling out wherever you have a castle. This is a very good thing because armies that aren't 'raised' are instead replenishing their losses and they aren't costing you gold. One thing you can try is going to your military screen and clicking the button to raise all of your levees (armies) and then watch as the following month your tax income drops as you pay for the army. This will give you a sense of the financial hardship involved in stomping around conquering people. One thing I've never quite figured: are vassal levies permanently set aside for their lieges' use? For instance, if one of my vassals is at war with another vassal, both have their levies raised, and I call them up as their liege--do I get a portion of their current armies? Or does the "Raise Vassal Levies" button draw from a separate pool of manpower?
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May 10, 2019 19:16
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Vengarr posted:One thing I've never quite figured: are vassal levies permanently set aside for their lieges' use? For instance, if one of my vassals is at war with another vassal, both have their levies raised, and I call them up as their liege--do I get a portion of their current armies? Or does the "Raise Vassal Levies" button draw from a separate pool of manpower? yes. you can see this by watching a faction when you increase the feudal levy laws. just watch them go from 50% to 30% in one day, it's loving great.
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May 10, 2019 20:00
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i dunno if it's been brought up here yet, but strong hints dropping in the Pdox forums that a new bookmark between 867-1066 is coming  I'm very excited, there's a ton of cool poo poo happening between those dates. My personal hope is for the Iranian Intermezzo
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May 10, 2019 20:03
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Fuligin posted:i dunno if it's been brought up here yet, but strong hints dropping in the Pdox forums that a new bookmark between 867-1066 is coming It is almost certainly going to be set at some point in the Intermezzo because you can see the Kingdom of Arles (existed 933-1006) in some of the screenshots.
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May 10, 2019 20:17
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A pre-Charlemagne date would be nice
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May 10, 2019 20:23
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https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/ck2-dev-diary-122-a-great-patch.1175982/ Also the new start date seems to be coming... next week??? The pace of work on CK2 is insane.
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May 10, 2019 20:25
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Randaconda posted:A pre-Charlemagne date would be nice You are the devil, from hell.
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May 10, 2019 20:37
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Randaconda posted:A pre-Charlemagne date would be nice I'd honestly love to see a dedicated game for pre-charlemagne, like 293 (tetrarchy) or 476 (fall of western rome) to charlemagne. It's a very interesting and dynamic period. The biggest obstacle is - how do you represent Muhammad/rise of Islam?
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May 10, 2019 20:40
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zhuge liang posted:https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/ck2-dev-diary-122-a-great-patch.1175982/ quote:- A child will no longer end up with a lover.
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May 10, 2019 20:54
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chaosapiant posted:I've tried doing the "tutorial island" thing with Ireland a few times while watching YouTube vids, but I end up just getting bored and moving on to another game. Ireland is nice to learn how to find things in the UI and understand some boring catholic mechanics. Once you get to "United most of Ireland and kinda understand how to push claims from invited courtiers" leave it. Go join the 1066 Spain thunderdome. The King of Leon has a bunch of Islamic neighbors ripe for holy warring, strong claims to his brothers Catholic kingdoms, and a high Intrigue score and is first or second in line of succession for those kingdoms. I am hella PEEVED fucked around with this message at 20:58 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 20:55
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from what i understand a lot of the problem with making earlier dates is getting data on the period. most of the characters in even 769 are fudged insofar as the names never existed but they need someone to be rando count 465 or they have no data beyond a name so they flatly randomize education, stats, and even health level for them. obviously the further back in history you go, the rarer writing was at the time and the lower percentage of written records have even survived.
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May 10, 2019 20:56
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It might be interesting to have a few pockets of Celts in Ireland or Scotland if they went with an earlier start date.
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May 10, 2019 20:59
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Coolguye posted:from what i understand a lot of the problem with making earlier dates is getting data on the period. most of the characters in even 769 are fudged insofar as the names never existed but they need someone to be rando count 465 or they have no data beyond a name so they flatly randomize education, stats, and even health level for them. I've always figured almost all of the barons and many of the counts are made up at most start dates. Are they mostly historical?
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May 10, 2019 21:49
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Best Friends posted:I've always figured almost all of the barons and many of the counts are made up at most start dates. Are they mostly historical? From 1066 on, most are historical, I think. Of course, the rank structure might not be a perfect fit for the respective characters, but records for many parts of the CK2 world were relatively accurate, and they spent a lot of manpower before CK2's release to make an accurate history. The earlier start dates are a lot more difficult.
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May 10, 2019 21:56
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Not gonna lie, it's pretty amazing they went that far in depth with it.
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May 10, 2019 22:00
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:I'd honestly love to see a dedicated game for pre-charlemagne, like 293 (tetrarchy) or 476 (fall of western rome) to charlemagne. It's a very interesting and dynamic period. The biggest obstacle is - how do you represent Muhammad/rise of Islam? I was hoping Imperator would have a lot more of CK's character focus in it than it did because the classical period is my favorite era. Granted I can't imagine my general thing to do would be all that different as most of my playthroughs are some variant on play pagan, crush the monotheists, restore the Old Gods. 
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May 10, 2019 22:09
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Pre-charlemagne dates would start requiring a lot of new mechanics to emulate historical events. The Karlings became kings through a weird sequence of events that is totally unsupported by game mechanics. Mass migrations would be very sketchy trying to squeeze into the current game. The relationship between Catholicism and Orthodoxy is already weird in-game since they weren't technically supposed to be separate before the mutual excommunication of 1054, and much earlier and you start sidling up to the need for ecumenical councils, which is weird territory. And that's with my limited knowledge of the setting. The biggest issue is probably outside of Europe, because I doubt Paradox has much interest in making the Muhammad prophet Muhammad playable. I'd expect that's about as likely as there being a DLC of Imperator dedicated to the rise of Christ. Might be nice seeing Arianism added to the game though. I feel like Paradox could do a lot of things towards enabling that, but it's more of a CK3 wishlist kind of thing. It's still not going to link up to Imperator without something to fill in the days of Empire though.
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May 10, 2019 22:34
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My understanding was Muhammad was dead by the time the conquests actually got underway. So it could simply be an event about the conquests beginning without making him a character you'd be able to interact with. Though there's also the fact that Islam was not very distinguishable from Christianity or Judaism until the third caliph, in a similar way that Christianity wasn't really Christianity until Constantine.
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May 10, 2019 22:39
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Question regarding how best to distribute counties as a King. I'm playing through an Ireland start (for the second time. Bought some dlc and things went wrong) and I've just claimed the title of King. I'd like to hold on to two duchies and be close to my holdings limit - what do I do with the rest? I have worryingly few male dynasts, so I plan to throw them duke titles when I can. Is it fairly safe to give county titles to random courtiers even if they aren't of my dynasty? My last game I made King, gave too much to to few people, then buying conclave randomly switched me to gavelkind succession, and half my council and vassals hated me. This is going much better! People actually like me and my King isn't an idiot!
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May 10, 2019 22:51
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Spider Plant posted:Question regarding how best to distribute counties as a King. I'm playing through an Ireland start (for the second time. Bought some dlc and things went wrong) and I've just claimed the title of King. I'd like to hold on to two duchies and be close to my holdings limit - what do I do with the rest? I have worryingly few male dynasts, so I plan to throw them duke titles when I can. Is it fairly safe to give county titles to random courtiers even if they aren't of my dynasty? Yeah handing them to random courtiers is acceptable, just make sure they aren't in line to inherit something and leave your realm. Created courtiers can be useful for this purpose. Just spread out counties and only give them one so no one has more power than you and it should be smooth sailing!
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May 10, 2019 22:53
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Fantastic, thank you. Next stop, Emperor?
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May 10, 2019 22:56
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Spider Plant posted:Fantastic, thank you. Next stop, Emperor? Britannia has an awesome flag so it's always a good empire to go after.
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May 10, 2019 22:57
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Spider Plant posted:Question regarding how best to distribute counties as a King. I'm playing through an Ireland start (for the second time. Bought some dlc and things went wrong) and I've just claimed the title of King. I'd like to hold on to two duchies and be close to my holdings limit - what do I do with the rest? I have worryingly few male dynasts, so I plan to throw them duke titles when I can. Is it fairly safe to give county titles to random courtiers even if they aren't of my dynasty? You can give ducal titles to random nobodies easily enough. Your next step will be to not let them grow too large without your consent. Your new duke that loves you now can turn into his rear end in a top hat kid with 3 duchies and high intrigue very quickly.
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May 10, 2019 22:58
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SlothfulCobra posted:Pre-charlemagne dates would start requiring a lot of new mechanics to emulate historical events. The Karlings became kings through a weird sequence of events that is totally unsupported by game mechanics. Mass migrations would be very sketchy trying to squeeze into the current game. The relationship between Catholicism and Orthodoxy is already weird in-game since they weren't technically supposed to be separate before the mutual excommunication of 1054, and much earlier and you start sidling up to the need for ecumenical councils, which is weird territory. And that's with my limited knowledge of the setting. This is actually a tricky q and it's reasonable that different mods have adopted different approaches to it (HIP sticks with Catholicism + Orthodoxy, CK2+ has "Chalcedonianism"). Christian Latins and Greeks were very much separate by this point in all kinds of ways and the 867 start actually puts you in the middle of the events of the Photian Schism, one of the biggest conflicts between the Pope and Constantinople before 1054. Afaik it's not brought up in the game at all though the main protagonists are all around as characters. Holy Fury added a lot of awesome mechanics, but I feel like there's still so much more flavour they could add with church history in the game, including stuff like ecumenical councils and the constant competition between the different Chalcedonian churches. Church councils especially are important pretty much all the way through the game timeline. I've thought about working on a mod but  Granted in game terms much of it would end up being flavour-only.Strictly historically though the mechanics are already wildly inappropriate for the early start dates: obviously feudalism never worked exactly like it does in the game, but to the extent the core mechanics reflect anything it's specifically post-Carolingian western Europe. Basic features of the game like private castles didn't start being a thing IRL until the Carolingian empire fell to pieces, and even then they were slow to spread to various parts of Europe (e.g. in the 12th century what's now southeastern France still had a much more city-oriented social structure that looked more "Roman" than "feudal").
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May 10, 2019 22:59
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Best Friends posted:I've always figured almost all of the barons and many of the counts are made up at most start dates. Are they mostly historical? there's an icon on the character screen which will link you to a person's wiki page if they are historical Spider Plant posted:Question regarding how best to distribute counties as a King. I'm playing through an Ireland start (for the second time. Bought some dlc and things went wrong) and I've just claimed the title of King. I'd like to hold on to two duchies and be close to my holdings limit - what do I do with the rest? I have worryingly few male dynasts, so I plan to throw them duke titles when I can. Is it fairly safe to give county titles to random courtiers even if they aren't of my dynasty? keep an eye on the randos you entitle, make sure that they don't have claims somewhere else or that they have Bad Vassal Traits like ambitious, deceitful, etc. that does matter in terms of a vassal deciding to take a shot at you. generating holy men through the intrigue screen is a good, cheap way to roll some more randos if you're looking for a content, trusting vassal who won't make waves. it can also be useful to land old men, with the hope that they will die before they sire an heir and so the title will revert to you if they are your direct vassal, to be potentially handed to a dynast later. see if you have any random chaste or middle aged women you can force-marry the potential vassal to before you land them in order to reduce their chances of fatherhood Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 23:11 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 23:07
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SlothfulCobra posted:Might be nice seeing Arianism added to the game though. Well they save that for HOI, you see.
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May 10, 2019 23:33
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Charlie Bobson posted:i'm attempting to finally get into these games because i love huge, bloated, extremely complex video games. i'm fiddling around in ireland and have managed to become a duke after 30 years or so, which is exciting. its very fun fiddling with all of the different mechanics even if i have absolutely no clue what im doing. Map goons discord: https://discord.gg/0Xj0w8YosFujejqw Or you can post questions in this thread, we're petty good at answering stuff
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May 10, 2019 23:36
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A lot of modern Christianity is basically Arianism.
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May 10, 2019 23:37
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Eimi posted:Britannia has an awesome flag so it's always a good empire to go after. It really hurts going from green to red, though.
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May 11, 2019 00:29
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Zohar posted:... I feel like there's still so much more flavour they could add with church history in the game, including stuff like ecumenical councils and the constant competition between the different Chalcedonian churches. Church councils especially are important pretty much all the way through the game timeline. Way back when the game was released, I was really excited by the fact that the CKII's estates system allowed for the game to track the episcopacy. It seemed like a great springboard for future features, which (as you say) we haven't had much of. If characters can have temporary statuses during realm-wide events (a feast or a tournament), or be marked as absent during pilgrimages, it would be very easy to use the same mechanics for bishops attending church councils. It would be interesting to tie it in to existing mechanics: a dip in a religion's moral authority could create an impetus for a council, and the bigger the drop the greater the participation and possible effects. Maybe some small bonuses/maluses, or a system that works similarly to realm laws in any province following a certain religion?.
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May 11, 2019 00:34
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You do want vassals with claims somewhere else as part of a scheme to press those claims and integrate them into your empire though, although it will make more powerful vassals to deal with further down the road.Zohar posted:This is actually a tricky q and it's reasonable that different mods have adopted different approaches to it (HIP sticks with Catholicism + Orthodoxy, CK2+ has "Chalcedonianism"). Christian Latins and Greeks were very much separate by this point in all kinds of ways and the 867 start actually puts you in the middle of the events of the Photian Schism, one of the biggest conflicts between the Pope and Constantinople before 1054. Afaik it's not brought up in the game at all though the main protagonists are all around as characters. Holy Fury added a lot of awesome mechanics, but I feel like there's still so much more flavour they could add with church history in the game, including stuff like ecumenical councils and the constant competition between the different Chalcedonian churches. Church councils especially are important pretty much all the way through the game timeline. It's really something that I've been fascinated with lately. I'm not really a religious person, but it's just so fascinating how religion isn't just a bunch of big flashy fireworks of miracles to sway people into a more complex theology or system of morals, it's a complex mix of philosophy and politics, constantly changing and developing just like any social structure. CK2 only briefly touches on most of the complexity, but there's a lot of room for development. If theocracies were playable, you could maybe make a whole new type of map game within CK2 with bishops, archbishops, cardinals, patriarchs, and popes trying to make their preferred ideologies dominant within the church. They'd be limited to pretty small temporal holdings most of the time (except for the borgia-esque exceptions), but you could still show ideological mapmodes on top of that. You could put in holding grand councils into the game (although what happens in those councils would be a whole new set of mechanics) as a way to push ideology further at a risk of creating more heresies which could even rise up and reverse the council. That's what the concept of "organized religion" as represented in-game really means, the ability for the followers of the religion to all get together to hammer out some cohesive theology. Some of the "lesser" organized religions may even lack some of that organization. An earlier start date might even push up into Khoshrow's efforts to recompile the Avesta, Zoroastrianism's holy book. Muslim rulers could even have their own weird theological turmoil between temporal needs and theological, since theologically they want to convert people, but temporally conversions cost them tax money. Or even getting more into the temporal/theological issue of choosing who should be caliph or choosing whether or not to acknowledge a caliph. CK2's caliphs are so much less involved than its popes (Patriarchs are much lesser than popes too, but that was the whole point of orthodoxy's administrative structure, to make it below the [byzantine] emperor). But it's also a little like playing with a live bomb to game-ify religion, even if it's just administrative structure, because these are real things that real people live with as a big part of their lives even today. Even the weird obscure things like Bon and Zoroastrianism. Zohar posted:Basic features of the game like private castles didn't start being a thing IRL until the Carolingian empire fell to pieces, and even then they were slow to spread to various parts of Europe (e.g. in the 12th century what's now southeastern France still had a much more city-oriented social structure that looked more "Roman" than "feudal"). From what I know, the big inciting incident for most of those private castles was the way that vikings just exploded across Europe. Charlemagne tried to keep lower vassals from having appreciable military strength or defenses (aside from marches), but when vikings came along, it was necessary, and the new fortifications of Europe are what ended the viking age. It's interesting the game shows one half of the event, but not the other.
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May 11, 2019 00:47
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chaosapiant posted:Good lord this game is dense to me. I'm just not getting the hang of it. I've tried doing the "tutorial island" thing with Ireland a few times while watching YouTube vids, but I end up just getting bored and moving on to another game. I can see there's an awesome game here if I can just get to it. I had one of those little information bubbles at the top say that I could press a claim, but when I clicked it, it took me to that characters screen and there were not options to press a claim. I did find claim/title options under my "realm" control panel however. I also am not sure how to tell at a glance what my armies are doing (in this case I'm playing as Stannis in the Got mod) and how to move them around if needed. There is a lot less depth than it seems.
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May 11, 2019 01:53
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Just dive right in. It will be confusing for the first couple of tries but before you know it you'll he with it.
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May 11, 2019 02:37
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Arumba's got a couple of Tutorial playlists on Youtube, which might be worth a look if you'd rather watch someone play to help you work the game out, but the best way to get your head around it is just by playing it.
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May 11, 2019 10:02
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Meanwhile in Ireland, the endless revolts have begun. King finally decides to spit out another bastard after all this time...a daughter, she can't inherit. gently caress you, Catholicism. Wife meanwhile has survived 10 years in the Oubliette. 'lol' How exactly do I change culture/religion to something reasonable enough to allow women to inherit? Seems I'm always marrying and inviting Basques, but nothing ever converts.
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