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Gaj posted:I dont think its so much the "explosion" as it is the amount of radiotactive material being thrown into the atmosphere. Its three whole, and a half, of reactor cores being scattered around the greater part of the continent. This bugged me. Steam and water doesn't create an explosion in the magnitude of megatons of TNT, the sheer amount (7000 tons) of water should give a hint that's impossible. Tons, perhaps hundreds of tons, okay, but I'm sure they were really meant the amount of dispersed radioactive material comparable to a 3-5 megaton nuke, not an actual bang of such magnitude. On a positive note, the attention to detail to the environments, details, clothing, the garish wallpapers, everything that recreates live in the the 80ies Soviet Union is incredible. By far the most accurate depiction of the environment and era I've seen. pigdog fucked around with this message at 09:06 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 09:01
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lot of bad writing in this show, these reactors were established as safe and benevolent for many years and now suddenly they're destroying cities and melting people???
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May 14, 2019 09:13
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Eau de MacGowan posted:lot of bad writing in this show, these reactors were established as safe and benevolent for many years and now suddenly they're destroying cities and melting people??? Reactor got mad at Cersei. It was totally foreshadowed...   Martian Manfucker posted:The helicopter crash happened like 5 months after the explosion, in October. Not sure why they chose to move it up to where they did, considering there's plenty of drama going on already. Unless I'm misremembering my Chernobyl facts and there was a second crash. Which I could be. I thought the helicopter crashed during the sand drop operation, but after that crew had done several runs...
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May 14, 2019 09:26
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is it known what caused the helicopter to crash? was it the crew passing out from radiation, the radiation frying all their electronics, the sheer heat melting poo poo, or all of the above?
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May 14, 2019 09:28
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Eau de MacGowan posted:is it known what caused the helicopter to crash? Capitalism.  
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May 14, 2019 09:32
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Eau de MacGowan posted:is it known what caused the helicopter to crash? was it the crew passing out from radiation, the radiation frying all their electronics, the sheer heat melting poo poo, or all of the above? I think it was a combo of the electronics shorting out and the blades hitting a steel support line of some kind, causing them to be sheared off.
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May 14, 2019 09:37
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Eau de MacGowan posted:is it known what caused the helicopter to crash? was it the crew passing out from radiation, the radiation frying all their electronics, the sheer heat melting poo poo, or all of the above? quote:In 2006, responding to persistent allegations that the official figure of 31 direct deaths during and immediately following the disaster omits other confirmed trauma and ARS deaths from the same period, the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) revisited the issue.[8] Citing additional deaths from trauma or ARS directly attributable to the disaster during 1986 and 1987 -- including those of a physician and a journalist who arrived at the plant shortly after the reactor explosion and a helicopter crew of Chernobyl liquidators who died in an aerial attempt to pour a decontaminating acetate mixture on a liquidator work area in October 1986 -- UNSCEAR revised the accident's immediate death toll to 54, acknowledging in the process that some groups assessing the same data place the number as low as 49 or as high as 59.[8] From what I can find, the crew became disoriented after too many runs and ran into the crane wires... 
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May 14, 2019 09:39
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This show could have had The Terror label slapped on it and it would have fit perfectly
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May 14, 2019 10:27
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I thought the helicopter crashed during the sand drop operation, but after that crew had done several runs... Yup, you're right, my bad. Not sure what I confused it with.
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May 14, 2019 10:46
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Professor Shark posted:This show could have had The Terror label slapped on it and it would have fit perfectly The Terror was amazing, I'm perfectly happy to get more relentless horror and dread into my life.
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May 14, 2019 11:16
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pigdog posted:On a positive note, the attention to detail to the environments, details, clothing, the garish wallpapers, everything that recreates live in the the 80ies Soviet Union is incredible. By far the most accurate depiction of the environment and era I've seen. That bare hotel lobby gave me horrible flashbacks to lovely 80s locations I stayed in as a kid, and that was in the decadent Capitalist West! I can't imagine how miserable they must have been in the Soviet Union.
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May 14, 2019 11:17
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Jerusalem posted:That bare hotel lobby gave me horrible flashbacks to lovely 80s locations I stayed in as a kid, and that was in the decadent Capitalist West! I can't imagine how miserable they must have been in the Soviet Union. There are probably plenty of places left in Lithuania that require only a minor effort to make them look like it's 1986 again. Does anyone know the source for that mural at the institute Emily Watson worked at ? Also that metal thing behind Shcherbina and Legasov was great, like something Eduard Khil would perform in front of. CeeJee fucked around with this message at 11:23 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 11:20
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Martian Manfucker posted:Yup, you're right, my bad. Not sure what I confused it with. Nah, even the little citation TFS posted says it happened in October, which would have been during the massive clean up operation (and it mentions it was dropping material for Liquidators, so) It's a relatively minor event in the scheme of things, and it helps to serve the narrative purpose for the audience of explaining why they didn't just dump some poo poo directly on the fire, since now you see a helicopter try it and immediately crash and kill everyone on board. Minera fucked around with this message at 11:28 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 11:24
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The speech about "you'll do it because it has to be done and (we) have always been about sacrifice" was amazing.
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May 14, 2019 11:49
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Apparently that 3-5 megaton number was the real-life estimate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5GTvaW34O0&t=1931s I don't know how exactly, but i suppose there is a lot of water and a humongous amount of heat, maybe they were using a worst case estimate of 'what happens if [maximum amount of water on-site and from fire trucks] flash-boils under a pile of white-hot nuclear sludge'.
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May 14, 2019 12:06
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It's kind of far fetched that the core material entering the tank would instantly vaporize 7 million litres of water. With some quick math I got 4,5 kilotons TNT worth of energy needed to do that, no matter how hot that molten core is there is no way that much energy can get transferred into to the water by whatever amount gets into the water first after melting through the bottom. It would have been bad but not 'all of Europe dead' bad.
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May 14, 2019 12:14
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Wallrod posted:Apparently that 3-5 megaton number was the real-life estimate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5GTvaW34O0&t=1931s This might be where the number is coming from, but I still think it's a translation error and they were talking about the steam explosion creating pollution comparable to a hydrogen bomb in the megaton range, rather than actually exploding with such force. Unfortunately the narrator is speaking over that person, it's not possible to verify what it was that he said, verbatim.
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May 14, 2019 12:20
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Thinking back over that scene, massively inflating a number like that could have been that character’s reaction to the politician in Minsk that blew her off earlier.
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May 14, 2019 12:35
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pigdog posted:On a positive note, the attention to detail to the environments, details, clothing, the garish wallpapers, everything that recreates live in the the 80ies Soviet Union is incredible. By far the most accurate depiction of the environment and era I've seen. The one thing I don't like is that the scientist is a composite character meant to represent all the scientists who contributed. I want to see a horde of scientists descend and sperg and bicker and help.
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May 14, 2019 13:12
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i like nice words
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pigdog posted:This might be where the number is coming from, but I still think it's a translation error and they were talking about the steam explosion creating pollution comparable to a hydrogen bomb in the megaton range, rather than actually exploding with such force. Unfortunately the narrator is speaking over that person, it's not possible to verify what it was that he said, verbatim. yeah that interpretation is the only thing that makes any sense to me
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May 14, 2019 13:19
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Anne Whateley posted:For some reason that really hit me when the scientist was trying to call Chernobyl. It was someone's job to figure out what an old Soviet dial tone and ringtone was. It's not like you even have photos to go on. Apparently there were hundreds of them, and while it’d be pretty funny to see that represented on film, I understand the thought behind merging them into one.
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May 14, 2019 13:44
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pigdog posted:This might be where the number is coming from, but I still think it's a translation error and they were talking about the steam explosion creating pollution comparable to a hydrogen bomb in the megaton range, rather than actually exploding with such force. Unfortunately the narrator is speaking over that person, it's not possible to verify what it was that he said, verbatim. CeeJee posted:It's kind of far fetched that the core material entering the tank would instantly vaporize 7 million litres of water. With some quick math I got 4,5 kilotons TNT worth of energy needed to do that, no matter how hot that molten core is there is no way that much energy can get transferred into to the water by whatever amount gets into the water first after melting through the bottom. It would have been bad but not 'all of Europe dead' bad. edit: the wrier's active on reddit and answering questions too, it might be worth asking about the source/basis, though i'm listening to the second episode podcast now just in case it's talked about there. i don't know why i'm all obsessed about this, but here i am Wallrod fucked around with this message at 14:49 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 14:03
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Episode 2 of the HBO companion podcast is out as well, worth a listen as the show creator explains things and the differences to real life (mainly compressing multiple people or events down in one) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faQs2_hjNZkMartian Manfucker posted:The helicopter crash happened like 5 months after the explosion, in October. Not sure why they chose to move it up to where they did, considering there's plenty of drama going on already. Unless I'm misremembering my Chernobyl facts and there was a second crash. Which I could be. It shows that something as bad as a helicopter crashing is nothing in comparison to the task that has to be done. "Oh well, keep going, acceptable losses." drunkill fucked around with this message at 14:17 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 14:14
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It’s crazy how so much about Chernobyl is still a mystery because of Soviet attempts to bury as much as possible. Like how well never accurately know how many people really died. comments like these make me wonder what people are gonna say about America when its dead and gone, seeing as how the US has committed more crimes of worse severity than the USSR could of ever had Phi230 fucked around with this message at 15:06 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 14:55
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BigglesSWE posted:Apparently there were hundreds of them, and while it’d be pretty funny to see that represented on film, I understand the thought behind merging them into one.
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May 14, 2019 14:57
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RagnarokZ posted:The Terror was amazing, I'm perfectly happy to get more relentless horror and dread into my life. I'm so psyched for season 2, even if the lack of Jared Harris is gonna suck.
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May 14, 2019 15:08
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Looking forward to the cleanup.
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May 14, 2019 15:39
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Phi230 posted:comments like these make me wonder what people are gonna say about America when its dead and gone, seeing as how the US has committed more crimes of worse severity than the USSR could of ever had Lmao https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin
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May 14, 2019 15:48
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EvilBlackRailgun posted:Lmao don't engage with tankies
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May 14, 2019 15:53
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Holy hell was that a scary ending. Like, genuinely frightening. It takes a lot for a TV show to affect my mood but Christ what a nightmare.
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May 14, 2019 15:56
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Anne Whateley posted:Imo it makes it look low-priority and amps up the cover-up atmosphere, that there are only two people working on remediation and they're just there by chance. In real life it was hundreds descending because it was so important nobody had anything better to do. I'm not saying they need hundreds, but give me like 20. She can still be their spokesperson Yeah I agree with this. I'd add it also kind of cheapens the overall message of what the writer wanted to showcase (Soviets having a fair amount of women scientists who were respected and the idea of a regular scientist type, not some super smart hero, being the one calling the shots) because it's injecting a fictional character that's clearly super competent into a real-world scenario who essentially only is involved because she forced her way in. It also kind of cheapens the adherence to how real science is done since now it's just two people drawing the right conclusions on limited or nearly nonexistent data, instead of a roomful of highly trained specialists reaching something resembling a consensus by analyzing the available data and debating the right course of action. The way I'd do it is mostly how they showed it (including the Minsk institute scenes and even the fictional scientist being stonewalled at the local level) but have a team of scientists be put together and her be a part of it because she's earned that right. The idea is obviously that she gets specifically called in because she is smart and respected, and maybe she is still the one to voice the concern over the water tank issue but she's not just a random, particularly dedicated person who seems to almost have the script on hand and knows the detailed situation without having confirmed any of it herself. She draws the right conclusions but gets filled in on the details and then comes to the realization they need to go in and drain the water tanks like, right now. It would not only feel more true to real life but it'd make for a more compelling story, imo. Ruflux fucked around with this message at 16:05 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 16:03
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there was a coverup at chernobyl but stuff like "the three guys who went into the reactor water to drain the pipes really died and were replaced" is the same kind of conspiratorial thought at the root of lost cosmonaut theories (and assange hiding in an embassy because the CIA must definitely want to murder him) it is possible to get serious doses of radiation and survive with injury, for example irl dyatlov (paul ritter, the "you did not see graphite" guy in the control room) died in 1995 from heart failure, possibly because of his intense radiation exposure, possibly because of other causes - it's really not possible to say if any specific adult's ailments were caused by radiation sickness or not. a guy at the plant named gorbachenko, who is partially depicted in the first episode (the guy who found the other super hosed up dude on the floor and carried his body down the hallway until he met two other workers) was alive but injured when interviewed in 1996
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May 14, 2019 16:14
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Yeah if I’m disappointed by anything on this show is that I wish they had more scientists than literally only two (pay for more actors you goddamn cowards) and also the show to be in Russian. Subtitles are fine! I’ve been enjoying the show, but the podcast is definitely something you need to listen to just to know what they changed and what they kept.
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May 14, 2019 16:14
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EvilBlackRailgun posted:Lmao https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples#Colonialism_and_genocide_in_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States death to america, american prisons are labor camps equivalent in severity to gulags, and I didn't even post about segregation nor america's fascist population, not did I mention how America has killed more people than even the USSR nor about how the United States is responsible for installing dozens of right wing dictators, nor did I post about how the US holds mass-trials or puts toddlers on trial all in all the US still ranks 3rd in terms of modern evil empires, behind the UK at number 1 and nazi germany at number 2 the only people with the moral authority or legitimacy to rightfully criticize the ussr are other leftists, otherwise you keep its name out of your stupid lib mouth Phi230 fucked around with this message at 16:58 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 16:16
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Ruflux posted:Yeah I agree with this. I'd add it also kind of cheapens the overall message of what the writer wanted to showcase (Soviets having a fair amount of women scientists who were respected and the idea of a regular scientist type, not some super smart hero, being the one calling the shots) because it's injecting a fictional character that's clearly super competent into a real-world scenario who essentially only is involved because she forced her way in. The REAL Goobusters posted:Yeah if I’m disappointed by anything on this show is that I wish they had more scientists than literally only two (pay for more actors you goddamn cowards) Anne Whateley fucked around with this message at 16:23 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 16:19
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Anne Whateley posted:agree 100% with all of this. Let's write a prestige miniseries together I think the issue stems from the fact that yes they have extras, but they’re extras. They probably didn’t have the budget to pay for scenes of more actors. Or maybe they couldn’t afford more extras to be scientists. Anyway it’s lame
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May 14, 2019 16:52
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The REAL Goobusters posted:I think the issue stems from the fact that yes they have extras, but they’re extras. They probably didn’t have the budget to pay for scenes of more actors. Or maybe they couldn’t afford more extras to be scientists. Anyway it’s lame i think it's a time crunch in that if you only have five hours to do all of chernobyl, you've got a certain screentime budget for talking about science stuff and you've got to spend it wisely. which is why the coded phone call scene did double duty in both informing scientist lady as to what the response was (dumping sand and boron) as well as indicating the sensitivity of the information
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May 14, 2019 16:55
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Minrad posted:Nah, even the little citation TFS posted says it happened in October, which would have been during the massive clean up operation (and it mentions it was dropping material for Liquidators, so) Fine, I take it back. I was right all along. I feel like they kind of explained why they couldn't just fly over the reactor earlier in the episode when the helicopter pilot disobeyed a direct order from a superior to fly over the core because a crazy scientist yelled at him not to, though. Either way, yeah, it was a relatively minor thing in the grand scheme of the disaster, which is awful to say considering 4 people died. Martian Manfucker fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 17:29
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For those who bemoans (sometimes rightly) historical inaccuracy in popular media, I recommend this book on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/Reel-History-Defense-Hollywood-Cultureamerica/dp/0700612009 It explains better than I can why certain liberties more often than not are vital for a product to see the light of day, not to mention to be successful.
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May 14, 2019 17:50
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It's not that the corium would flash boil the water: my understanding is that putting that much nuclear lava into that much water would be akin to throwing multiples of potassium into that much water. Also the potassium is irradiated. So is the water... https://www.ne.anl.gov/capabilities/rsta/cci/index.shtml https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqMN3y8k9So&t=61s So, a chemical reaction which generates heat is added to a nuclear pile already in a fission meltdown, which turns the whole thing into a 5 megaton bomb. I think? If there's a nuclear scientist in the thread, please jump in! 
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May 14, 2019 17:52
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