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Don't be dense, Paul. If your use case is productivity, go look at productivity benchmarks. And while the theoretical performance of a CPU is important to know, if you're bottlenecked elsewhere, a CPU with a higher maximum performance (that X% better at gaming at number) won't help.
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May 11, 2019 12:48
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Video games always run at the speed of the slowest component in the system. Most of the time its the GPU because it is an easy target, but sometimes games are just poorly optimized or poorly threaded and hit the CPU harder. Take the modern Far Cry games for instance, New Dawn bottlenecks on a i9-9900k at around 120 FPS average, which can be easily reached with a GTX 1080 Ti card at 1080p/ultra. Lower the resolution and the peaks reach higher, but the average barely moves from 120-125. Getting a bigger GPU like a 2080 Ti or turning down the graphical details is pointless in those games outside of 4k resolution (even 1440p is getting dangerously close to the CPU bottleneck on them). Actual CPU usage on a 9900k is around 30-40% while running the far cry benchmarks, but there are two threads that hit 100% usage and likely cause the bottleneck (one of them is probably the Denuvo DRM). The newest Tomb Raider game also bottlenecks pretty hard on anything less than an 8700k.
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May 11, 2019 12:52
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I just want Starcraft 2 to not lag during big battles but that will probably never happen until like quantum cpus with ddr10.
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May 11, 2019 13:26
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Otakufag posted:I just want Starcraft 2 to not lag during big battles but that will probably never happen until like quantum cpus with ddr10. Khorne fucked around with this message at 14:54 on May 11, 2019 |
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May 11, 2019 14:48
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Big grain of salt here because these are not the most reliable sources but there's some buzz about a 12-core engineering sample hitting 5GHz. https://twitter.com/AdoredTV/status/1126734966363025408 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrVZ1Yi6gq4
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May 11, 2019 20:42
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Adored is an absurd AMD fanboy who makes poo poo up 24/7. If he's the source for something, it's a lie, end of story.
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May 11, 2019 21:18
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The 5GHz number is a RedGamingTech exclusive, AdoredTV didn't give up any specifics on the 12-core other than "really high clock speeds."
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May 11, 2019 21:23
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Yeah the RGT guy isn't Adored nor is he a AMD fanboi. If anything he seems to like Intel a bit more overall but he does leaks and some of the juciest leaks, as far as new products go anyways, have been AMD related on the CPU front for a while now. My WAG is the 12C version can boost to 5Ghz single core but all core base clocks will probably be closer to 4.5Ghz if for no other reason than to stay within a 100-120W TDP range. Some others who would seem to know have hinted that 5Ghz all core won't be practical really with Zen2 in general but what that means to overclockers exactly is hard to say. Zen3 being 4-way SMT for server chips at least is pretty interesting for AMD's potential revenues. A ~250 watt per chip 512 thread 2 socket Epyc4 @ 2-3Ghz would sell well I bet. Even Paul, Cygni, or K8 would have a hard time hating on it! PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 01:32 on May 12, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 01:28
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What'd be the point of 4-way SMT, if there aren't enough execution units per core? And if there are, they'd be woefully underloaded on a consumer Zen3 with 2-way SMT? --edit: Wait no, that'd be awesome 2-way SMT, because there'd actually be more tangible boosts compared to now. Nevermind.
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May 12, 2019 02:04
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To my knowledge in any modern CPU many of the execution units already sit idle frequently because the decoders/schedulers can't feed them fast enough and/or not enough ILP is in the code to utilize them most of the time. That is why any form of SMT is capable of giving you a performance increase at all: its making use of already idle or inefficiently used resources. From what I can recall others have said of greater than 2 way SMT, at least as its been implemented in other CPU's (POWER 8 has up to 8 way SMT for instance), is that its usually only going to benefit performance if your work load has heaps and heaps (like hundreds or thousands) of threads that have relatively low and simple performance demands. So it can make sense in a server environment but for desktop or stuff that can actually really utilize the execution units well (maybe HPC work loads) it probably won't matter at all or may even cause performance degradations. That also makes sense given that they said the desktop chips might not have 4 way SMT and there might be a version with 3 way SMT too.
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May 12, 2019 03:30
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Khorne posted:It really depends on the game and your goals. We don't know enough zen2 to say. I'm mostly doing web browsing, office junk, web development, and some gaming on the side at 1440p on a 4670k @ 4.2 with a R390. I think it's been years since I've bought a new release AAA game. I'm figuring whenever Zen2 drops I'll hop on that train, stay at 1440p and try to stick around $200-250 for a video card to do it. I've never upgraded a CPU in an existing motherboard, in the past I've always done them new as pairs, but the I guess I can take the future upgradability of the socket as the final nail in the Intel coffin for my needs. So now to wait...
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May 12, 2019 05:14
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Zen2 will probably be the end of the line for the current socket, or at best one small-ish upgrade will follow. That said, AMD motherboards are always far cheaper than their Intel alternatives and any kind of moderate/high end CPU now tends to last forever anyway.
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May 12, 2019 08:02
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AM4 will stick around for a while longer than you may think given how long DDR5 is expected to stay expensive and be slow to ramp in desktops. AMD probably won't switch to DDR5 until well into 2022 because of that. So maybe Zen5 will be AM5 (or whatever they call it) but Zen3 is going to be out in 2020 and Zen4 is supposed to be 2021. edit: well there are technical issues in the future with AM4 socket itself (not just a memory controller issue), AMD has said it can't support DDR5 and I wouldn't be shocked if PCIe5 won't work with it either but yeah otherwise if they wanted to they could put Zen2040 on it, it'd just be stuck with PCIe4 and DDR4.\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 11:35 on May 12, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 10:21
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K8.0 posted:Zen2 will probably be the end of the line for the current socket, or at best one small-ish upgrade will follow. That said, AMD motherboards are always far cheaper than their Intel alternatives and any kind of moderate/high end CPU now tends to last forever anyway. Counterpoint: the IO die completely decouples the socket (and memory PHYs) from the compute die. AMD could actually choose to keep putting out AM4 processors pretty much forever, as long as their Infinity Fabric links remain intercompatible. For the foreseeable future, when AMD chooses to terminate the AM4 socket, it will probably be a marketing decision, not a technical one. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 06:26 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 12, 2019 11:19
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So the new rumor is the memory controller is so incredible it can run clocks of 5000 mhz and I just feel like I want this nonsense to end. How much of a benefit is better RAM speed likely to be, anyway? 3200 is pretty reasonably priced now, like another $25 CAD for what I'm aiming to get.
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May 13, 2019 05:29
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Spiderdrake posted:So the new rumor is the memory controller is so incredible it can run clocks of 5000 mhz and I just feel like I want this nonsense to end. The 5000MHz figure is a maximum possible RAM clock speed, not necessarily speeds it can actually hit. For reference the maximum speed that Zen+ can clock at is 4200MHz. It's generally worthwhile to spend the extra on 3000 or 3200MHz ram with current Ryzen chips because the Infinity Fabric runs at the memory speed so the faster RAM can really help performance. Zen 2 has a new, faster version of Infinity Fabric so I'd wait for RAM tests before making any conclusions about what memory to buy for Ryzen 3000. MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 06:14 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 06:09
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The fact that the options in the menu go that high doesn't mean the chip will actually run that high. Buildzoid:quote:Intel has memory ratios to like 8ghz that doesn't mean any of them are actually viable.
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May 13, 2019 06:28
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Biostar leaked their top x570 board and all it specs. https://videocardz.com/newz/biostar-leaks-its-own-x570-racing-gt8-motherboard That HSF on the chipset is disconcerting. Not present on the x470 board.
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May 13, 2019 18:49
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I wonder if it might be connected to increased heat generation because of increased bandwidth, or because PCIe 4.0 connected cards can draw over 300 watts (not at the slot, still 75W there), or some mix of both? https://www.techspot.com/news/66108-pcie-4-wont-support-300-watts-slot-power.html
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May 13, 2019 18:56
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Back 2 Thoroughbred with active cooling on the south bridge. Little screamers
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May 13, 2019 19:10
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Cygni posted:Biostar leaked their top x570 board and all it specs. You're going to need a fair bit of power to drive anything past the first PCIe slot at 4.0 signaling, but I suspect the active cooling is some dick waving nonsense that isn't needed.
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May 13, 2019 19:12
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Cygni posted:That HSF on the chipset is disconcerting. Not present on the x470 board.
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May 13, 2019 20:21
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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May 13, 2019 23:16
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Cygni posted:That HSF on the chipset is disconcerting. Not present on the x470 board. Come on. It was already leaked that the X570 uses more power than the X470 chipset. Like 8-10w I believe, so maybe a total power usage of ~15-18w or so. So long as the HSF is OK and the fan isn't crap there isn't a reason to care really.
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May 14, 2019 00:11
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If one of those boards comes across my bench, I'm wapping out the fan for one of those 40mm Noctuas, just on principle.
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May 14, 2019 00:22
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Haha jeez chipsets always used to have fans now its "disconcerting"? Even was back in the day when the northbridge ran the memory controllers there wasn't a single chipset that needed active cooling on it. If was offered, but was completely unneeded. In some cases, the manufacturer opted for a much smaller heatsink with a (small, high dB) fan on it that would fail frequently and contribute to dust collection and could cause overheating issues, but the job could have been accomplished with a slightly larger passive cooler and the fan was typically just a stupid reason to jam more LEDs on the board. Now that memory controllers are on the CPU the power requirements of the chipset are even lower even with the north and south bridge converged and putting a fan on there is still stupid.
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May 14, 2019 00:25
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Yeah I remember those boards. Usually if you blew out the dust once in a while they were fine. It was more of a problem with the extra cheap OEM mobo's or the ECS crap than the decent enthusiast boards if anything.
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May 14, 2019 00:52
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I asked in the NAS thread but didn't get a clear answer: The Opteron X3421 is 2 excavator modules on 28nm at a 35W TDP, right? I'm assuming that its power efficiency is far worse than basically any Zen or Intel from the last 5 years? Specifically, I'm wondering how it compares to a dual core hyperthreaded Pentium. It's really hard to find any info about it at all, and because Passmark absolutely loves bulldozer and its descendants I can't even figure out if it's closer to Atoms or Core / Zen. Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 03:39 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 03:35
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Buildzoid did an analysis of that "leaked" Biostar X570 board: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5UrTzMg2RU Probably the most useful information is that, according to his contacts at AMD's board partners, most X570 boards will feature active chipset cooling because "under certain operating conditions" the chipset "gets really hot" requiring active cooling. Cheaper boards will use passive chipset cooling for cost-saving but that will result in the chipset throttling. Mr.Radar fucked around with this message at 04:43 on May 14, 2019 |
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May 14, 2019 04:05
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Time to watercool your chipset  I'm curious as to what the "operating conditions" could be. Bad case airflow? Multi-GPU?
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May 14, 2019 06:23
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He mentions off hand in the video it may be related to the storage configuration and M2 SSD's. So, as a possible WAG, maybe that means don't RAID 0 3x M2 SSD's? I guess we'll see around the end of this month how much it really matters.
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May 14, 2019 07:15
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It's probably if the chipset attached slots/M.2s are running at PCIe Gen4, they have an increased power draw due to doubling the signalling rate along with potentially having to increase the signal drive strength etc.
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May 14, 2019 07:25
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Haha jeez chipsets always used to have fans now its "disconcerting"? Those tiny fans were so awful on a bunch of the boards I had. If they don’t bother you, cool have fun. But I really don’t want them.
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May 14, 2019 07:26
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I would guess that configurations that use PCIe 4.0 throughput to its fullest (lots of things attached to the PCH, which for home users probably means NVMe) probably pull a lot of power by previous standards.
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May 14, 2019 07:27
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:So long as the HSF is OK and the fan isn't crap there isn't a reason to care really. Sorry, but we must absolutely assume chipset fan technology is exactly where it was back when DFI and Soyo were major brands
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May 14, 2019 07:35
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Setzer Gabbiani posted:Sorry, but we must absolutely assume chipset fan technology is exactly where it was back when DFI and Soyo were major brands That's the last time chipsets needed active cooling so sounds about right.
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May 14, 2019 07:58
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one more motherboard refresh until they discover that they can connect the VRM and chipset coolers using a heatpipe  I hope the fan is only required to cover SSD benchmark scenarios, so situations where passively cooled consumer SSDs would throttle anyway.
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May 14, 2019 09:34
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Uhh, I don't like the sound of that rumor/news. Won't those tiny fans be easily audible?
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May 14, 2019 09:49
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Sininu posted:Uhh, I don't like the sound of that rumor/news. Won't those tiny fans be easily audible? The old ones weren't usually too bad, but I'm sure on the new ones there'll be an easy replacement you can put a noctua on before too long if it's a problem. When I had a chipset fan fail on the last gigabyte board I'll ever buy I was able to replace it with a big heatsink that kept it passively cooled.
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May 14, 2019 10:01
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Last time I checked those tiny fans don't really move a lot of air (especially at low RPM, where you'd want them so they're quiet) so fitting a Noctua will run quieter, but if it has to spin up to 3000 or even 5000 rpm to actually do anything they're still going to be audible.
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May 14, 2019 10:46
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