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gradenko_2000 posted:this is already what PF2e is Yeah that was part of the joke. Now the Schmefender can uh schmark and all that.
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May 15, 2019 03:40
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Kurieg posted:Well, Swedracula's primary interaction with the world of darkness was through the LARP community, which resisted the change over to nWoD hard because it would mean abandoning Insomuch as I'd give any slack to the Swedracula/grog resistance to adopting the nWoD when it happened, having a deep investment in ongoing stories and bookshelves full of books is about it. The nWoD has its own good voice now, and its always been mechanically better, but it took a while to figure out what made it different and interesting compared to the old lines. That was always going to be a hard sell, especially with only very limited (and rather poor in many cases) translation guides to try to port games over. Not that the whole "nWoD failed" stuff was true; that was just grog bullshit. As far as I've ever gleaned, it more or less just continued the same sales trajectory that WW was already on, rather than catching lightning in a bottle a second time.
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May 15, 2019 04:17
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Halloween Jack posted:My impression of the Nordic LARP scene is...not one that would be welcoming to a guy whose ambition is to become the Supreme Leader Edgelord. I know nothing about the Nordic LARP scene, could you elaborate?
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May 15, 2019 04:24
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Xiahou Dun posted:But *~^~^natural language^~^~*. Honestly, lots of fiddly bits are okay as long as they're codified, consistent, and clear. As long as they those three things, it doesn't weigh everything down as much and can even streamline a game further.
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May 15, 2019 04:28
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Desiden posted:Insomuch as I'd give any slack to the Swedracula/grog resistance to adopting the nWoD when it happened, having a deep investment in ongoing stories and bookshelves full of books is about it. The nWoD has its own good voice now, and its always been mechanically better, but it took a while to figure out what made it different and interesting compared to the old lines. That was always going to be a hard sell, especially with only very limited (and rather poor in many cases) translation guides to try to port games over. I still don't like their take on Werewolf, but nWoD Changeling was legitimately excellent and a much more interesting game than the oWoD version.
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May 15, 2019 05:31
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My enjoyment of nMage is fairly well matched by my disdain for oMage, both mechanically and narratively. Honestly I think Vampire was the only salvageable oWoD line at least in terms of narrative.
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May 15, 2019 05:59
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Well that’s a low bar. I never liked either version of Werewolf, but OWoD changeling was so bad I even knew that at like 17 or whatever.
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May 15, 2019 06:00
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nWerewolf 1st edition had some weird cruft in it that seemed mainly geared at "Sticking It To Furries", which mainly just made it so the people who got off on the transgression got off even harder. While also skeeving out the people who didn't care about that poo poo. And the plot/fluff was weirdly hostile to oWoof players. 2nd edition is greatly improved by simply removing all of that, even if Gauru form is just... ridiculous now. Xiahou Dun posted:Well that's a low bar. I never liked either version of Werewolf, but OWoD changeling was so bad I even knew that at like 17 or whatever. oChangeling looked at the bar set by oWerewolf and said "Hah, i can dig underground". A notorious changeling player from the olden days managed to find our Discord server last week and their behavior has basically not changed in 20 years. It's incredibly creepy.
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May 15, 2019 06:13
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Kurieg posted:nWerewolf 1st edition had some weird cruft in it that seemed mainly geared at "Sticking It To Furries", which mainly just made it so the people who got off on the transgression got off even harder. While also skeeving out the people who didn't care about that poo poo. And the plot/fluff was weirdly hostile to oWoof players. I mean the villains in nWoof are still basically the protagonists from oWoof. That's great, though.
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May 15, 2019 06:17
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I mean the villains in nWoof are still basically the protagonists from oWoof. Well. Parts of the protagonists. The really bad regressive splats. And they shipped the racist splats out to pasture forever. Thank God.
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May 15, 2019 06:24
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Kurieg posted:Well. Parts of the protagonists. The really bad regressive splats. And they shipped the racist splats out to pasture forever. Thank God. I still never understood how anyone came up with the idea that the Get of Fenris were -good guys-. I mean, the When Will You Rage braided novel that they used to introduce the setting had several examples of the Get being literal Nazis of the 'used to be a camp commandant' variety. Good story, though, it was about a Jewish kinfolk murdering his Nazi rear end and skinning him.
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May 15, 2019 06:34
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They made them not awful in revised, but first edition Get were gross as hell.
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May 15, 2019 06:36
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Even in Revised they were still pretty prone to falling into white supremacist flagging, which I think was pretty intentional on the writers' part.
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May 15, 2019 06:48
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I think the Get splat had a comic at the beginning which involved American Get fighting Nazi Get in WW2
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May 15, 2019 06:55
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For those who don't read the WoD Megathread, Swedracula has been fired from Paradox. Still a pretentious wanker though. https://blackdogblues.net/2019/05/09/the-journey-begins/
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May 15, 2019 09:14
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gradenko_2000 posted:this is already what PF2e is It's... not though? The action system in PF is pretty novel (and interesting, and enjoyable) as far as I can work out, the bit that's copypasted wholesale is the endless loving spell list which is from PF1e which in turn is from 3.5.
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May 15, 2019 10:07
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Liquid Communism posted:I still don't like their take on Werewolf, but nWoD Changeling was legitimately excellent and a much more interesting game than the oWoD version. 2006-07 was IMO the real takeoff point for the nWoD as its own thing, with Promethean and Changeling. The previous lines were still trying to figure out what they were doing that was different, but those ones came out strong with a unique ideas. The updates to the big 3 since then have also been really good.
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May 15, 2019 13:31
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Kurieg posted:oChangeling looked at the bar set by oWerewolf and said "Hah, i can dig underground". A notorious changeling player from the olden days managed to find our Discord server last week and their behavior has basically not changed in 20 years. It's incredibly creepy. I am glad the 20th edition toned down the Horny Children splat. That was always something that stuck out.
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May 15, 2019 13:57
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I am glad the 20th edition toned down the Horny Children splat. That was always something that stuck out. Oh they were never a member of the horny children. They were Sidhe, always. And got married while in full faerie getup. This guy is at least forty-five and still unironically uses "*glomp*" style roleplay in casual conversation with complete strangers on the internet.
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May 15, 2019 14:09
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Kurieg posted:Oh they were never a member of the horny children. They were Sidhe, always. And got married while in full faerie getup. This guy is at least forty-five and still unironically uses "*glomp*" style roleplay in casual conversation with complete strangers on the internet. Can confirm in my own experience. Those two extra Appearance points are like catnip.
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May 15, 2019 14:23
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Lemniscate Blue posted:I know nothing about the Nordic LARP scene, could you elaborate? That said, I looked into it and he does have long experience running various LARPs. A production company once paid him to spend three months living in a cabin pretending to be a conspiracy theorist as marketing for a horror film.
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May 15, 2019 14:32
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Halloween Jack posted:Nordic Larp is a diverse scene, but it's associated with freeform games that are built on improv theatre rather than gaming. (For example, "black box larp" and "chamber larp" is a thing, as is "jeepform" which is basically closet drama.) Games tend to explore social and personal issues, even if they're set in a familiar genre setting like post-apocalypse, war, or Harry Potter. So it probably was okay for his community and then absolutely abysmal for everywhere else. Swedracula didn't realize the game was different beyond his walls, which was about what I've always thought from him.
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May 15, 2019 15:07
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Kurieg posted:Oh they were never a member of the horny children. They were Sidhe, always. And got married while in full faerie getup. This guy is at least forty-five and still unironically uses "*glomp*" style roleplay in casual conversation with complete strangers on the internet. 
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May 15, 2019 15:09
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Liquid Communism posted:I still don't like their take on Werewolf, but nWoD Changeling was legitimately excellent and a much more interesting game than the oWoD version. My understanding of those who aren’t smitten by NewWerewolf is only surpassed by my contempt for those who imply it’s because they like OldWerewolf more.
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May 15, 2019 16:28
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Arivia posted:So it probably was okay for his community and then absolutely abysmal for everywhere else. Swedracula didn't realize the game was different beyond his walls, which was about what I've always thought from him. There was always vanity involved in his work on WoD. For a while, his Dracula likeness was part of the background image for either the main WW site or OPP's WoD pages, and there's no way there wasn't some specific intent in that design choice.
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May 15, 2019 16:52
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Nuns with Guns posted:There was always vanity involved in his work on WoD. For a while, his Dracula likeness was part of the background image for either the main WW site or OPP's WoD pages, and there's no way there wasn't some specific intent in that design choice. He also made stuff from his own game the setting.
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May 15, 2019 17:18
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Ettin posted:On RPGnet he claimed it was a friend using his computer. Later on RPGPub he posted this: By his own *ahem* interesting logic, zak-san posted:Of course--nothing that account says uses Shannon's writing voice or is concerned the kinds of narrow content Shannon wrote about. And nobody ever asks them if that screen-name is related to the person's real name or if the s stands for shannon. So it wasn't him pretending to be Shannon Appelcline, it was a friend who named the account after Shannon Appelcline on Zak's suggestion and made posts on Zak's behalf on Zak's computer. But because nobody ever said "are you shannon appelcline?" and he responded with a no none of this was at all in any way a form of harassment or impersonation. But I really get the impression that this is more of Zak's "I decide what is harassment and everyone else is a liar and a psychopath" stance on everything. It does feel that if Zak did end up in a california courtroom and had to explain to an impartial judge and jury that "it wasn't me, it was a friend who I refuse to name who named it after a person i was having a very public feud with on my suggestion who made posts on my behalf on my computer." would probably not go his way, depends on the judge but generally "being a loving idiot and wasting the courts time with personal feuds" has been in general quite the piss off to judges, this probably goes doubly so with this kind of stupid bullshit. Because honestly, this feels genuinely like stupid bullshit, and the idea of this crap being talked about in court could only be funny if Zak decided to do the entertaining thing and settle it on Judge Judy. Now that would be fun to watch, especially if he randomly decided to interrupt her with one of his trademark "EXCUSE ME MISS JUDY, THAT'S A LIE. THUS: SMEAR. DEFAMATION!" TheDiceMustRoll fucked around with this message at 17:25 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 17:22
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Dawgstar posted:He also made stuff from his own game the setting. So? Isn't that just what being an RPG developer is? Ideally, you play your games a bunch and then the stuff that gets the best results goes in the book for others to enjoy. While I'm posting, I will add that all the other stuff you guys are complaining about is legit lovely and Swedracula was awful. Good riddance and all that. Just so nobody gets the impression I'm supporting the guy in any way. Edit: Zak insists that all his claims are absolutely established facts, as though anybody can just look them up. Fred Hicks is a harasser - it is just obviously true, anyone can verify it. He's counting on people taking him at his word because of course anybody who actually takes the time to look into who is saying what will very quickly see who the real harasser is. And yet for all the he insists that this poo poo is easy to look up, he regularly gets it wrong himself, targeting the wrong people, using wrong names, misattributing things, etc. But any claims against him? Oh, the accuser must bring the proof to the thread immediately - expecting someone to go look it up is absurd! Amongst his piles of bullshit in that twitter thread, that is what stood out to me as the most obviously transparent and disingenuous. Jimbozig fucked around with this message at 17:35 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 17:27
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For some reason I just checked Mike Mearls's twitter account and most recent post is still from Feb 12 (inaccurately downplaying Zak's role in developing D&D5E). Complete radio silence since then. LOL.
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May 15, 2019 17:32
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FMguru posted:For some reason I just checked Mike Mearls's twitter account and most recent post is still from Feb 12 (inaccurately downplaying Zak's role in developing D&D5E). Complete radio silence since then. And the top reply thread is Adam Koebels going “Oh, isn’t that the guy who was constantly harassing me?” Is Mike still doing his streaming show? I assume not.
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May 15, 2019 17:37
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Jimbozig posted:So? Isn't that just what being an RPG developer is? Ideally, you play your games a bunch and then the stuff that gets the best results goes in the book for others to enjoy.. Well, first of all it's not the set-up he made canon, it's the results. The outcomes of his table's games, not the story hooks that they played. Secondly, what works for a given group is going to be way more specific to them than what works as a general plot hook. Sure, take lessons from the table, but don't just assume every table is going to be identical to your own - some degree of abstraction and principled, thoughtful writing is necessary to write generally generative plot hooks.
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May 15, 2019 17:42
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I am glad the 20th edition toned down the Horny Children splat. That was always something that stuck out.
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May 15, 2019 17:45
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Only tangentially related but I think Game Designers Workshop would play wargames to determine the plots of the RPGs they were currently working on. They made a pen and paper RPG called Twilight 2000, a cold war gone hot survival RPG. They then played some sort of wargame starting from their alternate history, and played it out to see who would come out on top. Eventually Brazil and France became the dominant powers and so that's how it's written in their future survival RPG, Traveler 2300. I really liked it but I'm a brokebrain weirdo.
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May 15, 2019 17:49
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Zereth posted:I thought there wasn't a Horny Children splat, it was that there was a "How old are you" selection, with with like five entries on it that topped out at "early 20s", and then a "Horny person" splat, and nothing that prevented you from it with any of the age groups? The 3 age groups were basically "Small child" "Teenager" and "So old it defies belief, Jesus Christ it's depressing just being around you."
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May 15, 2019 17:51
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Joe Slowboat posted:Well, first of all it's not the set-up he made canon, it's the results. The outcomes of his table's games, not the story hooks that they played. Right. He was super into his whole The Second Inquisition and those results were absolutely not typical.
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May 15, 2019 18:10
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Kurieg posted:The 3 age groups were basically "Small child" "Teenager" and "So old it defies belief, Jesus Christ it's depressing just being around you." It should be noted: no one who wrote for the game ever remembered this and all characters are written as adults.
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May 15, 2019 18:11
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Kurieg posted:The 3 age groups were basically "Small child" "Teenager" and "So old it defies belief, Jesus Christ it's depressing just being around you." The last category notably included 'basically everyone above 25 or so'
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May 15, 2019 18:23
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Dawgstar posted:Right. He was super into his whole The Second Inquisition and those results were absolutely not typical. Pretty sure the only people into the Second Inquisition were the people who were passionately into the writing of Tom Clancy and also not against advocating for the CIA-supported fascist governments of South America
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May 15, 2019 18:34
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Kurieg posted:The 3 age groups were basically "Small child" "Teenager" and "So old it defies belief, Jesus Christ it's depressing just being around you." EDIT: Almost like putting in the "I'm here to gently caress" splat would've been a bad idea under normal circumstances but was an extra-bad idea for Changeling! 
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May 15, 2019 18:37
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Zereth posted:Ah, right. So your options for age for the "I'm here to gently caress" splat were "too young", "WAY too young", and "fading away because you're over 18, you're a loving fossil" Not even getting into that at least one of the books implied that the "correct" way for changelings to live was to A) gently caress early and often B) Have lots of kids as early as you can C) Hand those kids off to other people to raise then kill yourself so that your PURE CHANGELING SOUL is not tarnished by the mundanity of adult life.
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May 15, 2019 18:45
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