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ELO Musk posted:The country is so diverse due to colonial border schemes that it’s impossible to prevent conflict? When you become so woke you wrap around to the same talking points as the alt right.
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May 15, 2019 09:28
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Platystemon posted:When you become so woke you wrap around to the same talking points as the alt right. If the constant Rhodesia apologia is any guideline, most alt-right types are a-okay with diversity when it comes to Africa, just so long as the white population reigns supreme in the hierarchy.
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May 15, 2019 10:16
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Platystemon posted:When you become so woke you wrap around to the same talking points as the alt right. Well I was thinking ala what has happened in India but yikes, that is an alarming observation. I really have no idea what the cause is!
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May 15, 2019 13:18
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Partition wasn't something that just naturally happened. The context goes back hundreds and hundreds of years, but it was political and strategic mistakes that allowed the situation to get out of hand. The craziest part is that none of the major players actually wanted partition: Jinnah wanted extensive Muslim autonomy, not an independent state, and Congress wanted a centralised state which they though they would be more likely to get by allowing an independent Pakistan to fail (an insanely cynical way to think fwiw)
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May 15, 2019 13:30
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Platystemon posted:When you become so woke you wrap around to the same talking points as the alt right. Whereas the imperial powers of Europe actually did do genocides and stoke up racial tensions in African countries. Plenty of Steve Biko's letters and articles sound racist as gently caress if you imagine they were written by a white European. Steve Biko posted:Nothing can justify the arrogant assumption that a clique of foreigners has the right to decide on the lives of a majority. Steve Biko posted:I am against the fact that a settler minority should impose an entire system of values on an indigenous people. That's some literal BNP/AfD poo poo right there. But when written by a Black man living under Apartheid, rather than a Euro mad that there's a mosque, they're actually true facts.
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May 15, 2019 14:57
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Phlegmish posted:Perhaps it's not an ethnicity, but nation is certainly arguable for Switzerland, as it is at least the result of an organic process starting in (if I remember correctly) the 14th century. It's not completely free of linguistic strife, but historically speaking most of the internal conflicts were based on religion. It seems fairly stable nowadays. The founding date of Switzerland is either 1291 or complicated. 1848 is counted as the birth of "modern Switzerland" (Yeah, I know). I.e. Congress of Vienna since Napoleon also rolled over Switzerland. The problem with 1291 is that this was just one of many cooperation treaties between the 3 founding members starting from at least 1250 (much of the treaties was because the area was interesting because of the Gotthard pass which also brought quite some money into the area for that time but also trouble). These treaties were more or less because around then some of the local count families (Zähringer, Kyburger, Lezburger) around the southern part of the HRE died out which left lawless areas, imperial immediate areas (which the counts didnt like much) and no clear inheritances (the Habsburg were merrily intermarrying with many of them and inherited much, thus part of their motto). Then the HRE had some troubles, the Interregnum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interregnum_(Holy_Roman_Empire) . This lead to the Habsburger encroaching on Swiss parts (some of which they probably rightly owned as such things are counted) and also on the HRE as kings/emperators (which emboldened their local bailiffs etc).
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May 15, 2019 15:16
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May 15, 2019 15:44
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Starks posted:also western democracies are already ethnostates Not really. You could try to argue that for some countries such as Germany or Italy, that were created quite late by a unification process ideologically motivated by pan-nationalism, but the borders of most countries in Europe were drawn by a process that gave no poo poo about ethnicity. And then the countries in North America are, by definition, not ethnostates -- you can argue ethnocracy perhaps. They should do the same but for American hegemony, so that Japan and South Korea would no longer be shown as free. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 15:49 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 15:45
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May 15, 2019 15:49
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When was Turkey under European domination aside from some very regionalized brief post-war occupation stuff. And Afghanistan and Mongolia were absolutely Soviet satellite states. EDIT: on closer inspection some weird rear end poo poo is going on where Turkey meets with Greece.
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May 15, 2019 15:58
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Phlegmish posted:Belgium, on the other hand, was explicitly intended as a nation-state, which ironically became its own undoing by the late twentieth century. By creating it as a Brussels-centric francophone supremacist bourgeois state, it managed to simultaneously alienate Wallonia, with its burgeoning labor movement, and Flanders, where the common people spoke Dutch dialects. I was very surprised that on a recent trip to Brussels, while nearly all signage was at least bilingual, I did not hear a lick of Dutch, apart from train station announcements. I had been promised two languages! And yes, I got two - French and English.
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May 15, 2019 16:08
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Golbez posted:I was very surprised that on a recent trip to Brussels, while nearly all signage was at least bilingual, I did not hear a lick of Dutch, apart from train station announcements. I had been promised two languages! And yes, I got two - French and English. de facto it's about 70% francophone, 20% international people, and 10% dutch. But Official flemish policy and ideology is that those 10% have to be catered to as though they represent 50% of the brussels population. it's all very ... messy.
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May 15, 2019 16:13
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Grape posted:When was Turkey under European domination aside from some very regionalized brief post-war occupation stuff. Rome probably
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May 15, 2019 16:25
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 The color of each country’s passport.
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May 15, 2019 16:28
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For those wondering, based on five minutes of research, Greenland residents do have their own passports, but they're the same red as any other Danish passport. The other countries in black do seem to actually have black passports.
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May 15, 2019 16:39
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Senor Dog posted:Rome probably If the map is counting antiquity entities as European then it's even dumber than I thought.
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May 15, 2019 16:41
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My nitpick to the talk about what Western powers did in the Middle East is that the Ottoman Empire was generally doing the exact same poo poo to its subject populations. Maybe a bit less ham-fistedly since it was closer to home. The Brits used the foundations laid by the Ottomans to gently caress things up even more.
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May 15, 2019 16:43
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At least the Koreas escaped being under the thumb of an imperial hegemon. 
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May 15, 2019 16:45
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Brussels is where the francophone elite's generally schizophrenic attitude firmly favored complete Frenchification, for obvious reasons. Today, the vast majority of the local population is French-speaking, or more correctly they speak a variety of languages with French being the lingua franca. A huge percentage of daily commuters is Flemish, though, and about 25% of the student population in Brussels is in Dutch-speaking schools. Interestingly, now that there are almost no local native speakers left except for a few gentrifiers, the social status of Dutch has almost completely been reversed. Forward-thinking and ambitious francophone parents try to get their children into quality Dutch-speaking schools so they can become bilingual. It is what it is, but as far as capital cities go Brussels is really not that representative of Belgium. Flanders, which is monolingually Dutch except for a small area immediately surrounding Brussels, for obvious reasons. Wallonia, because it has historically resented being dominated by a financial and cultural elite from what is basically a Frenchified Flemish city. There is sometimes tension between the identities of francophone and Walloon, since they don't entirely overlap.
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May 15, 2019 16:49
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bullshit, with its complete clusterfuck of rules, petty political fiefdoms and ego-based rivalries, literal and political gridlock, and absolutely 0 forward-thinking capabilities, brussels is the perfect microcosm of belgium.
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May 15, 2019 17:04
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my dad posted:My nitpick to the talk about what Western powers did in the Middle East is that the Ottoman Empire was generally doing the exact same poo poo to its subject populations. Maybe a bit less ham-fistedly since it was closer to home. The Brits used the foundations laid by the Ottomans to gently caress things up even more. Yep. Also that hegemonic map gets so hung up on "Europe" that it includes most of Eastern Europe, which itself is historically also a bunch of traded and dominated territories outside of Russia and Turkey. Like there's just something wayyyy off showing the golden hegemons of Serbia, Albania and Bulgaria next to the put upon colonized Turkey.
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May 15, 2019 17:25
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I'd love to hear the reasoning behind Thailand not ever being under the power of any colonialist powers.
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May 15, 2019 18:38
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Angry Salami posted:For those wondering, based on five minutes of research, Greenland residents do have their own passports, but they're the same red as any other Danish passport. The other countries in black do seem to actually have black passports. So it seems. Also there are plenty of shades to these colors (edit: although it seems like some are different just because of lighting):  https://www.passportindex.org/ Neofelis fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 18:52
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Neofelis posted:
This helped cause Brexit, by the way.
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May 15, 2019 19:08
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Can't wait for the UK to have green passports 
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May 15, 2019 19:16
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HookShot posted:I'd love to hear the reasoning behind Thailand not ever being under the power of any colonialist powers. It was too useful as a neutral buffer zone between English possessions in Burma and French colonies in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. Kassad fucked around with this message at 20:14 on May 15, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 19:59
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Grape posted:Like there's just something wayyyy off showing the golden hegemons of Serbia, Albania and Bulgaria next to the put upon colonized Turkey. All four are invasive settler states
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May 15, 2019 20:31
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Neofelis posted:
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May 15, 2019 20:44
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Byzantine posted:All four are invasive settler states Όχι οι Αλβανοί. Grape fucked around with this message at 03:13 on May 16, 2019 |
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May 15, 2019 21:17
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Neofelis posted:
If I ever create a new state, remind me to make the passports mustard yellow.
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May 15, 2019 21:25
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Platystemon posted:If I ever create a new state, remind me to make the passports mustard yellow. Full rainbow pride flag. Just to piss shitheads off.
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May 15, 2019 21:31
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Neofelis posted:So it seems. Also there are plenty of shades to these colors (edit: although it seems like some are different just because of lighting): Yeah the lighting makes a huge difference, I know for a fact that the Czech (3rd row, 6th column) and UK (last row, 9th column) passports are the exact same shade and on there one is purplish pink and the other crimsonish burgundy.
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May 15, 2019 21:35
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The Cyprus one is the standard reddish maroon color and not the hot magenta I'm seeing there.
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May 15, 2019 21:40
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That said I think there are some differences between the shades which eu countries use for the eu-recommended burgundy.
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May 15, 2019 21:42
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Turkey news goes in the Europe section of the Economist so it's European.
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May 16, 2019 00:55
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HookShot posted:I'd love to hear the reasoning behind Thailand not ever being under the power of any colonialist powers. They were remarkably good at diplomacy. And had a flag which made them a real country you couldn't imperialize. I didn't make the rules, the Brits did.
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May 16, 2019 02:16
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Wasn't Thailand effectively dominated by the UK up until they were dominated by the Japanese, even if they weren't literally colonized?
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May 16, 2019 02:54
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Neofelis posted:
UK is about to join blue club.
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May 16, 2019 03:04
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Peanut President posted:same and also Brittany  
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May 16, 2019 03:35
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I know I'm being a pedant, but it does seem strange to me to list Liberia as free of European dominance, but not Ethiopia. Ethiopia was only ever under European control during World War II, contrast this with Liberia, which was literally founded by the American Colonization Society (I know the map is focusing on European colonization in particular, but still, it feels somewhat misleading). Edit: Nevermind, I'm an idiot. I see they have Ethiopia in the map, just not in the description. CourtFundedPoster fucked around with this message at 04:40 on May 16, 2019 |
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May 16, 2019 04:29
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