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Peanut President posted:can we all agree at least to stop draining major aquifers to grow loving corn? hmmm, but what if we started growing Corn 2 instead?
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May 16, 2019 23:56
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THS posted:production has to be sustainable, but it has to be sustainable for 7 billion people or more, and that necessitates things like steel and cement and concrete jungles - and arguing otherwise is accepting that billions have to die for your political ideology to be put into practice sorry gang, we gotta turn the planet into a Forge World because we'd rather have to navigate between underground arcologies in hazmat suits than give up on skyscrapers and Nintendo Switch
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May 16, 2019 23:57
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Autism Sneaks posted:sorry gang, we gotta turn the planet into a Forge World because we'd rather have to navigate between underground arcologies in hazmat suits than give up on skyscrapers and Nintendo Switch socialism causes low birth rates so i don't think communism is going to turn the world into the star wars planet
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May 16, 2019 23:58
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also i'm glad that the degrowth people in this thread have actually come out as being the "let's live in huts, return to the forests" academic types that i unfairly characterized them as earlier
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May 16, 2019 23:59
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dont worry gang, if we give up all of these pesky modern conveniences like wheelchair-navigable surfaces and handicapped people in general, we'll get to live in mud huts eventually!
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May 17, 2019 00:04
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literally nobody has said we have to live in mud huts you disingenuous pieces of poo poo lol
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May 17, 2019 00:05
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sorry man the only building materials in the world are steel reinforced concrete and mud
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May 17, 2019 00:06
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also the only two structures are enormous glass skyscrapers and mud huts i don't make the rules of online slap fighting
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May 17, 2019 00:06
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THS posted:also i'm glad that the degrowth people in this thread have actually come out as being the "let's live in huts, return to the forests" academic types that i unfairly characterized them as earlier how can you simultaneously acknowledge you're being mocked for your hyperbole born of projecting your labor aristocrat panic but then turn around and hold it up as vindication of your point. besides any grown rear end adult should be embarrassed to defend skyscrapers or the Switch smdh
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May 17, 2019 00:06
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imagine thinking you have the personal capacity for a revolution but you can't loving imagine a world with slightly different living conditions/priorities/materials used
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May 17, 2019 00:07
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🎶Mud huts In the middle of our street🎶
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May 17, 2019 00:08
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Autism Sneaks posted:how can you simultaneously acknowledge you're being mocked for your hyperbole born of projecting your labor aristocrat panic but then turn around and hold it up as vindication of your point. besides any grown rear end adult should be embarrassed to defend skyscrapers or the Switch smdh because i’m not arguing with you in good faith because i think you’re a moron. the only audience for degrowth is grad students
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May 17, 2019 00:09
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Karl Barks posted:hmmm, but what if we started growing Corn 2 instead? Ultracorn 
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May 17, 2019 00:10
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Degrowther Furr
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May 17, 2019 00:11
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your political ideology would kill billions just as surely as continuing capitalism would but on the plus side it has zero credibility and has no chance of happening and i say that as someone who thinks communism will become a force in america in my lifetime
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May 17, 2019 00:12
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look can we figure this out after we get rid of all the financiers and politicians?
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May 17, 2019 00:12
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chaining myself to block the off switch of a coal fired power plant to own the degrowthists
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May 17, 2019 00:13
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GalacticAcid posted:🎶Mud huts Madness invented ska
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May 17, 2019 00:13
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Dreddout posted:It's pretty dang anti-materialist too assume we'll just innovates are way out of this current catastrophe How is "We don't invest nearly enough in the sciences, which are the only way we have of getting out of this mess" anti-materialist?
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May 17, 2019 00:14
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THS posted:your political ideology would kill billions just as surely as continuing capitalism would but on the plus side it has zero credibility and has no chance of happening and i say that as someone who thinks communism will become a force in america in my lifetime yes, your cartoon villain strawman of my "ideology" is going to kill billions, it's definitely not people trying to get real about our dire future surviving beyond climate change
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May 17, 2019 00:14
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THS posted:your political ideology would kill billions just as surely as continuing capitalism would but on the plus side it has zero credibility and has no chance of happening and i say that as someone who thinks communism will become a force in america in my lifetime communism has already killed a million billion people so what's a couple more?
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May 17, 2019 00:14
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THS posted:because i’m not arguing with you in good faith because i think you’re a moron. the only audience for degrowth is grad students so you admit you're a mental infant, but that much was already evident
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May 17, 2019 00:15
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everyone smoke some sustainable organically grown doinks and chill out. I'm sorry I brought this up!
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May 17, 2019 00:16
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Venom Snake posted:How is "We don't invest nearly enough in the sciences, which are the only way we have of getting out of this mess" anti-materialist? It's assuming that an unforseen advancement in science and engineering will resolve the specific issue that will prevent our survival, which is impossible to plan for or anticipate. You make plans for your current capabilities, not the ones that might arise eventually.
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May 17, 2019 00:17
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What if the real secret to survival is to not survive
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May 17, 2019 00:17
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Venom Snake posted:How is "We don't invest nearly enough in the sciences, which are the only way we have of getting out of this mess" anti-materialist? moving the slider on my "Research Funding" bar to Max so the tech points I need to unlock Cold Fusion accumulate faster
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May 17, 2019 00:17
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Karl Barks posted:everyone smoke some sustainable organically grown doinks and chill out. I'm sorry I brought this up! jokes on you this made me even angrier!! Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's assuming that an unforseen advancement in science and engineering will resolve the specific issue that will prevent our survival, which is impossible to plan for or anticipate. You make plans for your current capabilities, not the ones that might arise eventually. that's fair, but at the same time there are technologies just on the verge of viability but due to lack of being able to generate profit don't get investment
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May 17, 2019 00:19
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Autism Sneaks posted:so you admit you're a mental infant, but that much was already evident lol shut the gently caress up dork
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May 17, 2019 00:22
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The average worker has too much food and too many material goods and wastefully augments their labor with electrical power and the internal combustion engine. Socialism will fix this!
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May 17, 2019 00:22
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's assuming that an unforseen advancement in science and engineering will resolve the specific issue that will prevent our survival, which is impossible to plan for or anticipate. You make plans for your current capabilities, not the ones that might arise eventually. trees and carbon capture technology exist. we just don't use the latter because its not profitable
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May 17, 2019 00:23
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organic is a trigger for me because the people who talk about sustainability and also love organic food are the most insufferable people on earth
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May 17, 2019 00:23
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It's gonna rule when the "degrowth is genocide" people realize transitioning to a socialist society is going to cause extreme growing pains and go back to being shitlibs or make the neoconservative jump
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May 17, 2019 00:23
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MizPiz posted:It's gonna rule when the "degrowth is genocide" people realize transitioning to a socialist society is going to cause extreme growing pains and go back to being shitlibs or make the neoconservative jump i definitely don't foresee reactionary insurgents sabotaging enormous amounts of delicate infrastructure and productive capacity to sow havoc in a revolution
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May 17, 2019 00:24
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MizPiz posted:It's gonna rule when the "degrowth is genocide" people realize transitioning to a socialist society is going to cause extreme growing pains and go back to being shitlibs or make the neoconservative jump thats right bitch im going to build the giant communist jungle shredder from crystal skull and drive it through the amazon to own you
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May 17, 2019 00:25
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im all for razing the suburbs, banning cars and air travel, and killing people, but i’m balking at what sounds like academic primitivism
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May 17, 2019 00:25
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never even mind that vast swathes of our infrastructure is already outdated/crumbling/inefficient to the point of being a hazard (power grids), we're ALREADY going to have to reform a lot of functional material society, we're just saying "don't do it so loving stupid/wastefully"
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May 17, 2019 00:26
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smarxist posted:never even mind that vast swathes of our infrastructure is already outdated/crumbling/inefficient to the point of being a hazard (power grids), we're ALREADY going to have to reform a lot of functional material society, we're just saying "don't do it so loving stupid/wastefully" that's fine and i agree with you on that point but the article posted went beyond that by quite a large measure. the question is what is the delineation between this concept and primitivism.
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May 17, 2019 00:28
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smarxist posted:never even mind that vast swathes of our infrastructure is already outdated/crumbling/inefficient to the point of being a hazard (power grids), we're ALREADY going to have to reform a lot of functional material society, we're just saying "don't do it so loving stupid/wastefully" i don't know what we are arguing about anymore at this point, doesn't basically every goon agree we just gotta go full nuclear
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May 17, 2019 00:29
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THS posted:degrowth frames the argument in terms of capitalist concepts of stuff like gdp. it's accepting a conception of economics that uses free market assumptions of what growth means. calling anti-consumerism and anti-waste measures degrowth is possibly the worst way to sell a political ideology that i can think of
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May 17, 2019 00:30
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at worst its eco fascist ideology and at best its just using brand new and stupid terms to describe what people who've perhaps read a wikipedia article or two already recognize as 'communism'. why does degrowth need to be a word. what is it describing that there isnt already terms for.
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May 17, 2019 00:31
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