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THS posted:If only there were so many sides! How does it feel to be on the right? I don't know what side that is. Is that the inside embassy or outside embassy?
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May 16, 2019 06:10
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Shaocaholica posted:I don't know what side that is. Is that the inside embassy or outside embassy? you're on the side of the people who literally murdered millions of people in Iraq, the last time around. I'm sure they have good intentions. You're a fool.
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May 16, 2019 06:14
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In a shocking turn of events the guy posting fashy poo poo resorts to pithy non-replies when cornered on his beliefs.
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May 16, 2019 08:11
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THS posted:the people who literally murdered millions of people in Iraq Truly, Bolton’s nuclear bombing of Baghdad was one of America’s greatest shames and most disgusting actions.
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May 16, 2019 09:32
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Saladman posted:Truly, Bolton’s nuclear bombing of Baghdad was one of America’s greatest shames and most disgusting actions. everything you need to know about the venezuelan opposition in one easy post: "c'mon, Iraq wasn't -thaaaat- bad"
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May 16, 2019 15:27
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Embassy just got raided.quote:I'm outside the Venezuelan embassy where i've heard the activists inside have been arrested in a morning raid https://twitter.com/LavenderNRed/status/1129025690253373440 And this is pretty concerning. quote:There's an ambulance backing down 29th Street Unsure if it's related to Embassy. https://twitter.com/LavenderNRed/status/1129029698665762816
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May 16, 2019 16:17
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Saladman posted:Truly, Bolton’s nuclear bombing of Baghdad was one of America’s greatest shames and most disgusting actions. A nuclear bombing almost as explosive as this nuclear take
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May 16, 2019 16:29
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Embassy just got raided. looks like they were arrested: https://twitter.com/LavenderNRed/status/1129041874952622087
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May 16, 2019 16:58
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The only thing this perfidy shows is that America won't even honor your diplomatic mission and will replace it with their own state department backed cronies in a heartbeat if they could.
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May 16, 2019 17:08
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This is basically what happened at Benghazi. E: And like HRC, Maduro did nothing to protect his troops.
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May 16, 2019 18:16
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Sure sounds like a foreign backed coup
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May 16, 2019 18:28
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I have no sympathy for pro-Maduro activists but as one of my teachers used to say...sadly, international law apparently only really counts when your country has enough muscle and almost nobody has the power to stop the USA from violating it.
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May 16, 2019 19:13
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injuries bad, hopefully anyone who was hurt has an easy full recovery and doesn't go bankrupt
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May 16, 2019 19:32
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Guaido gonna live out the rest of his pathetic career squatting in the embassy and insisting that he’s the real president, he’s not owned, you’re owned. Venezuela and Libya are gonna be abject lessons to every other country on the planet to never ever make agreements with the US or western countries and then the foreign policy people will keep whining and writing op eds asking why no one likes us, why do they keep going to be China’s friend instead? 
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May 16, 2019 19:34
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CYBEReris posted:looks like they were arrested: my ex's mom was one of the people just arrested as somebody who knows very little about the entire situation does anybody have some words of encouragement I could maybe give my ex? she's extremely worried since people have been kind of a lot harsher on protesters recently
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May 16, 2019 19:59
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So what the gently caress are they going to charge these people with? I'm sure Guaido won't do anything nefarious at all once his cronies are running the embassy
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May 16, 2019 20:30
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wielder posted:I have no sympathy for pro-Maduro activists but as one of my teachers used to say...sadly, international law apparently only really counts when your country has enough muscle and almost nobody has the power to stop the USA from violating it. Agreed, man just dismantle diplomatic immunity.
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May 16, 2019 20:49
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everythingWasBees posted:my ex's mom was one of the people just arrested it's not much, but look at what happened at the j20 protests, where they had huge mass arrests of protesters in dc. all charges against those people were eventually dropped when it came out that the prosecution was using doctored videotapes provided to them by the koch brothers' private spies. they're not going to aggressively pursue charges when the cops broke so many laws during the entire incident. not just international laws, but local laws as well. the "state department" probably doesn't want courts deciding if they had the legal authority to force utility companies to shut off power to private property in the us. i doubt that the dc police want just how much they collaborated with the pro-guaido mob outside to come to court. they couldn't even charge those arrested with trespassing, as the cops were the ones trespassing on venezuelan property. instead, they charged them with "interfering with a protective measure," ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/118 i think) it is in the best interests of the us government not to make examples of the protesters, but to let the affair fade as quietly as possible. from the little i understand about the law, in order to charge the protesters with "interfering," the prosecution needs to argue the legality of veccio's appointment, which is probably best avoided. the last thing guaido's government needs is a court battle in the us about the legitimacy of his government. i suspect that the government will try to offer plea deals to those arrested in order to avoid the embarrassments in court that will happen even if they win.
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May 16, 2019 20:56
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They're being arraigned tomorrow so I guess we'll see what happens.
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May 16, 2019 20:58
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GoluboiOgon posted:it's not much, but look at what happened at the j20 protests, where they had huge mass arrests of protesters in dc. all charges against those people were eventually dropped when it came out that the prosecution was using doctored videotapes provided to them by the koch brothers' private spies. they're not going to aggressively pursue charges when the cops broke so many laws during the entire incident. not just international laws, but local laws as well. the "state department" probably doesn't want courts deciding if they had the legal authority to force utility companies to shut off power to private property in the us. i doubt that the dc police want just how much they collaborated with the pro-guaido mob outside to come to court. Since they'll be tried in a us court, they're probably going to rely on the fact that the person the US "recognizes  " as the one with the authority to allow or remove people from the Venezuelan embassy said they should be removed
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May 16, 2019 21:20
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Ruzihm posted:Since they'll be tried in a us court, they're probably going to rely on the fact that the person the US "recognizes I'm unironically curious what happens if they take this and its various sub-issues to court.
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May 16, 2019 21:39
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caberham posted:Agreed, man just dismantle diplomatic immunity. To be clear, I am not saying this is a good thing. Quite the opposite. It's more of an admission that raw power can overrule the law. It shouldn't, but that's reality. This is also why the U.S. has tried to keep itself outside of international jurisdictions whenever possible.
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May 16, 2019 22:15
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Jose posted:So what the gently caress are they going to charge these people with? I'm sure Guaido won't do anything nefarious at all once his cronies are running the embassy Resisting arrest is the standard bullshit when you need to charge someone with something that wasn't doing anything illegal.
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May 16, 2019 22:29
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Jose posted:So what the gently caress are they going to charge these people with? I'm sure Guaido won't do anything nefarious at all once his cronies are running the embassy What can he do nefariously with the embassy that he can't do without? Access non-wiped records and communications, I guess. That's probably a big enough deal to matter.
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May 16, 2019 22:55
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People are panicking here because tjere's this rumour that gasoline in Venezuela is over, you guys abroad hear anything?
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May 16, 2019 23:13
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https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/s...ingawful.com%2F
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May 16, 2019 23:49
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Blue Nation posted:People are panicking here because tjere's this rumour that gasoline in Venezuela is over, you guys abroad hear anything? Not really, although this article paints a bleak picture: https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/1903719-venezuela-running-out-of-motor-fuel?backToResults=true quote:An internal PdV report dated 13 May indicates that gasoline and diesel inventories in eight border states were completely exhausted, and the rest of the country had the equivalent of only two or three days of reserves. I don't know where this weird blog is getting its info from though. It's a weird company that sells commodity and market analytics. It probably bought the article from some wire service, but I can't find the article reproduced anywhere else. It might be reliable because commodity speculators are obsessive about getting the most up-to-date info, but who knows. Most of the coverage in the US right now is about the effect of sanctions on domestic gasoline prices, and the potential for shortages in Cuba.
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May 17, 2019 00:07
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GreyjoyBastard posted:What can he do nefariously with the embassy that he can't do without? I dont think Guaido is detatched from reality enough to still believe he's ever going to be in charge of Venezuela. So he'll probably just poo poo up the place out of spite in between a few photo-ops standing in front of the only government building of Venezuela he wont be politely shuffled away from.
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May 17, 2019 00:57
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https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1129164481966235648?s=20
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May 17, 2019 01:44
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I've been really busy recently so I haven't had any time to even check the thread. Unfortunately it's looking like my workload is actually going to increase over the next little while, so I'll probably not be around much. If you want to keep up to date on Venezuela, I recommend that you get yourself on Twitter and follow the following people. The people I'm linking here are anti-intervention and critical of Maduro, and have always advocated for a peaceful, negotiated solution to the crisis AFAIK: - Phil Gunson (@philgunson): He works for the Crisis Group (also worth a follow @crisisgroup) and tweets almost exclusively about Venezuela. - David Smilde (@dsmilde): He's a professor based in the US who is an expert on Venezuela. - Raul Urribarri (@rasurri): Venezuelan professor living in Australia. He specializes in judicial matters. - Andrei Serbin Pont (@SerbinPont): He's Argentinian but most of his work centres on Venezuela, I think. I think he tweets in Spanish mostly, but he's knows quite a bit about the military and geopolitics so he's worth a follow even if you don't speak Spanish. - NetBlocks.org (@netblocks): This is an NGO that tracks government disruptions to internet service. Whenever the government interferes with the internet, Netblocks tweets about it. - Dylan Baddour (@DylanBaddour): Freelance journalist who's covering the crisis from Colombia. He tweets about the migrant situation there a lot. - CNW (@ConflictsW): He/she tweets about conflicts all around the world, including Venezuela. He/she is too pro-US for my tastes, but the breaking news information that they post about Venezuela is generally very good. - Anatoly Kurmanaev (@AKurmanaev): If you're gonna follow one person on this list, let it be Anatoly. He's covering Venezuela from Caracas for the NYT. - Patricia Laya (@PattyLaya): Bureau Chief for Bloomberg in Venezuela. Bloomberg's got some of the best coverage on Venezuela right now, and they routinely break big stories. Anyone that they follow/retweet will probably be a good bet to follow if you want to keep up with Venezuela.
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May 17, 2019 01:58
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How long is Guaido going to drag out his fake presidency? Is this going to be like a taiwan thing where the US pretends he's president for years? Even in that case though taiwan at least controlled actual territory, Guaido is just going to be sitting in foreign embassies spouting off meaningless words with his fingers crossed the US will start bombing his home for him. How long will the rest of the world play along as well? It was easy for a bunch of US aligned nations to jump on the bandwagon when it looked like this coup was going to be a done deal, but at this point its looking like its well and truly over. The US can still be stubborn, but as the months and years drag on, the rest of the countries that jumped on board are going to have to sheepishly face the fact Guaido isn't in charge of a single square block.
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May 17, 2019 02:49
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Tom Guycot posted:How long is Guaido going to drag out his fake presidency? Is this going to be like a taiwan thing where the US pretends he's president for years? Even in that case though taiwan at least controlled actual territory, Guaido is just going to be sitting in foreign embassies spouting off meaningless words with his fingers crossed the US will start bombing his home for him. Baltic governments, 1940-1991.
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May 17, 2019 03:21
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Tom Guycot posted:How long is Guaido going to drag out his fake presidency? Is this going to be like a taiwan thing where the US pretends he's president for years? Even in that case though taiwan at least controlled actual territory, Guaido is just going to be sitting in foreign embassies spouting off meaningless words with his fingers crossed the US will start bombing his home for him. That's kind of hard to answer but I have difficulty seeing Trump change course before the 2020 election. This is because Trump and other Republicans obviously see being tough on Venezuela as a way to appeal to Florida's Cuban population. For this reason I think it is unlikely sanctions will be lifted in the next 18 months so long as Maduro is still President, or other radical changes in the approach towards the Maduro government. The rest of the world has two major interests in Venezuela that could incentivize them either to play along with US policy or jump off the bandwagon. These interests are immigration and oil imports. Predictions are that unless the direction of the Venezuelan economy turns around, Venezuela will produce many millions more emigrants in the next several years. Two million people leaving the country in 2019 was one prediction made at the end of last year, and that was before sanctions. Mass immigration almost always pisses people off, and I expect the larger the flow of Venezuelan migration, the more pressure there will be on Latin American and European governments to work with the USA in removing Maduro. The second issue for other governments is oil. The higher the price of oil, the more incentive there will be to circumvent US meddling and buy Venezuelan oil. The sanctions have probably increased oil prices in the US already at least a bit. However this incentive will be counteracted by the decline in Venezuelan production:  That article I posted early on the page estimated that last month, Venezuelan production had decreased to as low as 0.5 mbd. After the sanctions were instituted Eliot Abrams predicted Venezuela capacity could fall by 0.05 mbd per month. At this rate Venezuela exports will be practically zero by the end of the year, at which point there will be very little incentive for any state to do business with the Venezuelan government. For complex reasons I think reaching zero is unlikely, but I see no reason it can't keep falling. If Venezuela cannot maintain or increase oil exports, and if it cannot slow emigration, I predict there will be no significant change in the international posture towards Venezuela.
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May 17, 2019 04:31
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Tom Guycot posted:How long is Guaido going to drag out his fake presidency?
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May 17, 2019 07:49
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decent video about embassies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUsqnD9-42g
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May 17, 2019 11:25
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Looks like some form of negotiations are going on: https://twitter.com/ReutersVzla/status/1129364190857125890?s=19
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May 17, 2019 13:35
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hopefully excluding guaido from all proceedings
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May 17, 2019 13:58
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Jose posted:hopefully excluding guaido from all proceedings The “democratic” qualifier seems like they are trying to drive a wedge between guaidos gang and the loyal opposition.
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May 17, 2019 15:02
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https://twitter.com/AJUpFront/status/1129398063838191616 I like that her excuses are "times have changed since the 1970's," and when it's pointed out that it's the same awful war criminals that carried out numerous war crimes in LA throughout the 80's, her next excuse is "well I was too young to live through that."
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May 17, 2019 16:38
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She's 47.
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May 17, 2019 16:53
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