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Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

lol, never mind then.

SilverMike posted:

Hopefully that's it, but it's hard not to have major reservations about anyone taking race science seriously nowadays.

Yeah, that tweet was gone by the time I saw gradenko's post.

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NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Ferrinus posted:

I’ll never forget that grogs.txt post in which someone explains that D&D’s racial ability modifiers helped them to understand how race science could still be true despite the existence of individually smart people of color.
Got a link to that? I have some :words: to say about the Races section of Etherscope for a F&F review. And having that quote around would be a great demonstration of what the writers' casual ignorance ends up promoting.

Der Waffle Mous
Nov 27, 2009

In the grim future, there is only commerce.

:stare:

I don't think I like 13th age anymore.




also weird that we're finding out Tweet is bad because of his bad Tweets.

Warthur
May 2, 2004



I would feel sad about Ars Magica turning out to have been invented by two utter shitters, except my favoured edition is 5th edition and neither Rein-Hagen nor Tweet has been involved in any capacity for multiple editions now.

Rip_Van_Winkle
Jul 21, 2011

"When life gives you ghosts, you make ghost-robots"

I think this is a philosophy we can all aspire to.

Der Waffle Mous posted:

:stare:

I don't think I like 13th age anymore.

also weird that we're finding out Tweet is bad because of his bad Tweets.

TG As An Industry: Bad Tweet's Bad Tweets

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

NGDBSS posted:

Got a link to that? I have some :words: to say about the Races section of Etherscope for a F&F review. And having that quote around would be a great demonstration of what the writers' casual ignorance ends up promoting.

I don’t have a link to the original source, but I found a full quote here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3698899&pagenumber=2

quote:

From reading and posting on the Opposing Views section of the forum, I read a lot of foolish comments from the anti's. Statements like "I know a black person who is really smart, therefore everything you say about racial intelligence differences is wrong." Well, of course, the lack of understanding of statistics this statement shows is staggering. I try to recall when in my life when I could have fallen for such a foolish statement and I can't think of when I would have.

I completely understood how there could be smart blacks and yet blacks be less intelligent than whites as a whole when I was a child. When was the first time I thought about an idea like that? When I got into Dungeons and Dragons at the age of nine or ten. I knew that elves were more agile than humans. I knew that because they had a +1 bonus (back when I started playing, now its +2) to Dexterity, I knew they were more dexterous even though the average elf had a Dexterity of 11.5 and humans could have a Dexterity of 18.

These days, orcs have an average Intelligence of 8.5 (10.5 average for 3d6, -2) and since IQ roughly corresponds to D&D Intelligence times ten, then that puts your typical orc at an average IQ of about 85 . . . who does that remind you of? Of course, even as a child (long before I was racially aware) I would have known you were a fool if you said that orcs were as smart as humans just because you had an orc character with an Intelligence of 16. So when I was ten, I apparently knew more about statistics than your typical anti does.

And this point may seem a bit silly, but it introduces an important idea that most white people are conditioned not to believe in - racial essentialism. The idea that race determines certain characteristics or tendencies. We knew that elves we dexterous, that dwarves were tough, that orcs were mean and nasty. We also knew that there were exceptions and that exceptions didn't mean that general trends didn't still apply.

D&D also has a lot about racial loyalty. Elves band together in protection of their forests. Orcs raid human villages and have to be stopped by the hero. In D&D, you have loyalty to your people and you know that sometimes a race in general can be a threat to your's.

As I've grown older over the years I've continued to enjoy role playing games and my though the games I've played have advanced beyond just fighting orcs and finding magic items - but I think that some of those ideas I was exposed to as a child were good lessons that maybe helped me come to terms with ideas that are part of beings a White Nationalist.

Reene
Aug 26, 2005

:justpost:

Der Waffle Mous posted:

:stare:

I don't think I like 13th age anymore.

Fortunately years of being a nWoD fan have inundated me to lovely people with lovely views touching a creative property that I enjoy but yeah, mood.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Reene posted:

Fortunately years of being a nWoD fan have inundated me to lovely people with lovely views touching a creative property that I enjoy but yeah, mood.
Yeah, I'm also a big fan of Demon: The Death of the Author

Der Waffle Mous
Nov 27, 2009

In the grim future, there is only commerce.

Reene posted:

Fortunately years of being a nWoD fan have inundated me to lovely people with lovely views touching a creative property that I enjoy but yeah, mood.

it doesn't help it was one of my go-to "instead of 5e why don't you try..." examples.

Parkreiner
Oct 29, 2011

Warthur posted:

I would feel sad about Ars Magica turning out to have been invented by two utter shitters, except my favoured edition is 5th edition and neither Rein-Hagen nor Tweet has been involved in any capacity for multiple editions now.

The fact that Tweet did such an excellent job of leaving his bullshit ideology out of his games is both why people found those games appealing and why we didn’t find out he and R*H were such brokebrains until they joined social media.

I always knew Tweet had an amazing imagination— now I know it’s so amazing he was able to envision a world where the beliefs he holds most sacred are untrue or irrelevant.

Re: 13th Age in particular, that was a collaboration with Rob Heinsoo, who I have yet to hear anything unsavory about or from. At least yet...

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Warthur posted:

I would feel sad about Ars Magica turning out to have been invented by two utter shitters, except my favoured edition is 5th edition and neither Rein-Hagen nor Tweet has been involved in any capacity for multiple editions now.

Frankly, the game really only got good in 4th and 5th. 1st and 2nd are plagued by bad history and 3rd has Reason.

Nystral
Feb 6, 2002

Every man likes a pretty girl with him at a skeleton dance.

Mors Rattus posted:

Frankly, the game really only got good in 4th and 5th. 1st and 2nd are plagued by bad history and 3rd has Reason.

Did MRH work on Mage:Sorcer’s Crusade with it’s order of reason? IIRC there was some major overlap between Ars and Mage

Reene
Aug 26, 2005

:justpost:

Kurieg posted:

Yeah, I'm also a big fan of Demon: The Death of the Author

I said enjoyable

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Nystral posted:

Did MRH work on Mage:Sorcer’s Crusade with it’s order of reason? IIRC there was some major overlap between Ars and Mage

I don't think by '98 MRH had much to do with developing anything. That was Brucato, Rich Dansky, and Ken Hite among others.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Dawgstar posted:

I don't think by '98 MRH had much to do with developing anything. That was Brucato, Rich Dansky, and Ken Hite among others.

I think the order of reason was established in the backstory of Mage 1st ed.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Kurieg posted:

I think the order of reason was established in the backstory of Mage 1st ed.

Right, but he's not listed on that book, either. That was the Wiecks plus others, so I thought.

That Old Tree
Jun 24, 2012

nah


https://twitter.com/13thAge/status/1130204675783909376

https://twitter.com/dril/status/660644922744262656

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




inklesspen posted:

Meltwater, which I believe is by a goon, is a game that makes this absolutely explicit. I recommend it.

Oh they've got some amazing ideas for games on that site.

https://hollandspiele.com/

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

They're really selling their sincerity:

MollyMetroid
Jan 20, 2004

Trout Clan Daimyo
You want them to what, cancel his loving author credit?

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

MollyMetroid posted:

You want them to what, cancel his loving author credit?

I don't think anyone expects that, but they should take his twitter handle off of their profile.

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



I doubt they even realize it's there.

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

moths posted:

I doubt they even realize it's there.

Well I literally just told them it was, so we'll see I guess :v:

Small Strange Bird
Sep 22, 2006

Merci, chaton!

Rip_Van_Winkle posted:

TG As An Industry: Bad Tweet's Bad Tweets
Jonathan Twat.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Ferrinus posted:

I don’t have a link to the original source, but I found a full quote here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3698899&pagenumber=2
Thanks for this! I'll probably use it near the end unless I find something really dumb that I missed on my first past.

Rhandhali
Sep 7, 2003

This is Free Trader Beowulf, calling anyone...
Grimey Drawer

TheDiceMustRoll posted:

*brief flicker of hope that RPG trump fans will realize his dumb policies hurt them in a tangible way too*

A slow and painful death to the person who posts some Chud going "HELL, I'D PAY A HUNNERD BUX FOR DICE IF IT GITS ME THAT WHALL"

Maybe it will be good for the handful of outfits that still that still make dice in the US?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Trump is bringing back manufacturing!!!

rkajdi
Sep 11, 2001

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

I too look forward to paying $1.50 a die while also having to hear that stupid pitch from the Gamescience guy.

8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!

rkajdi posted:

I too look forward to paying $1.50 a die while also having to hear that stupid pitch from the Gamescience guy.

All Lou Zocchi ever wanted was for you to roll randomly.

Subjunctive
Sep 12, 2006

✨sparkle and shine✨

Zucati really can’t handle more business, I think. Still way behind on some kickstarters because of flooding or something a year ago.

rkajdi
Sep 11, 2001

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

8one6 posted:

All Lou Zocchi ever wanted was for you to roll randomly.

And also have every stupid person you play in a wargame moan about dice every time the slightest amount of deviation from the expected result happens. The whole "Chessex are weighted" thing comes up often enough in conversations about games and dice rolling that I want to scream. A few of the identical dice in your cube being slightly biased has very little effect on results when you're commonly picking up and rolling them by the handful. It's just dumb people not thinking about anything more than the surface level of random processes and making dumb comments that everyone else has to pretend to humor.

Rhandhali
Sep 7, 2003

This is Free Trader Beowulf, calling anyone...
Grimey Drawer

rkajdi posted:

I too look forward to paying $1.50 a die while also having to hear that stupid pitch from the Gamescience guy.

He sold the business and only does a couple of conventions a year. They’re owned by a family run outfit in Bardstown, Kentucky now and do mostly mail order. They’re a local shop for me so I give them business when I can and I like their dice anyway.

long-ass nips Diane
Dec 13, 2010

Breathe.

I found the gamescience dice to be very light and unsatisfying to roll, which was a real disappointment.

LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

You know you didn't have to go post that, right?
But it's fine, I guess...

You just keep being you!

long-rear end nips Diane posted:

I found the gamescience dice to be very light and unsatisfying to roll, which was a real disappointment.

Why is nobody talking about the rollfeel?

Rhandhali
Sep 7, 2003

This is Free Trader Beowulf, calling anyone...
Grimey Drawer

long-rear end nips Diane posted:

I found the gamescience dice to be very light and unsatisfying to roll, which was a real disappointment.

Try the Zucati dice. I kickstartered a few sets and they’re nice. Definitely heavier.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Rhandhali posted:

He sold the business and only does a couple of conventions a year. They’re owned by a family run outfit in Bardstown, Kentucky now and do mostly mail order. They’re a local shop for me so I give them business when I can and I like their dice anyway.

Wait, they’re out of bardstown? What shop?

Rhandhali
Sep 7, 2003

This is Free Trader Beowulf, calling anyone...
Grimey Drawer

Chakan posted:

Wait, they’re out of bardstown? What shop?

Sorry. They were in the process of moving last time I was there and aren’t in Bardstown anymore. They just call themselves Gamescience. I was surprised as anyone to see they ended up there.

They moved to Leitchfield.

They’ve got all the molds and casting equipment and are still casting new dice.

Rhandhali fucked around with this message at 19:51 on May 20, 2019

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



The Chessex reputation comes from selling 1lb bags of their factory sections, which almost universally get opened and sold as regular singles.

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009

MollyMetroid posted:

You want them to what, cancel his loving author credit?

No, but the juxtaposition makes the insincere dodge even sadder.

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Roadie
Jun 30, 2013

I only buy dice with the highest-quality mouthfeel.

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