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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Schools do educatIon. there should be multiple social programs each mandated to cover separate issues. It’s the only way anything can function. So to ask you the same question you're asking me: why are you insisting that the organizations that are the state-mandated substitute parents for these children eight hours a day, five days a week must not take action to ensure their safety and well-being while in their care if they could instead buy more computers?
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May 23, 2019 04:59
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School lunch is already a separate program from education with different funding. That isn’t a gotcha.
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May 23, 2019 05:01
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Liquid Communism posted:So to ask you the same question you're asking me: why are you insisting that the organizations that are the state-mandated substitute parents for these children eight hours a day, five days a week must not take action to ensure their safety and well-being while in their care if they could instead buy more computers? Schools should be funded. When they aren’t they are still expected to do education, not do other programs someone thinks is more important than education instead.
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May 23, 2019 05:04
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:School lunch is already a separate program from education with different funding. That isn’t a gotcha. Except it's not. School districts in my area typically end up allocating about 10% of their budget to nutrition. This is in addition to the state, federal, and non-profit assistance.
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May 23, 2019 05:16
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jzilla posted:Except it's not. School districts in my area typically end up allocating about 10% of their budget to nutrition. This is in addition to the state, federal, and non-profit assistance. Why only 10%? why not 100%? Math classes can’t be more important than starving kids, right?
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May 23, 2019 05:20
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Why only 10%? why not 100%? Math classes can’t be more important than starving kids, right? This smug question exposes your own ignorance, do you think 100% of budgets would be required to provide free breakfast, lunch, and snacks? Weird how technology is the "well obviously its not a budget problem" but food is a "what you want 100% for food you crazy people".....
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May 23, 2019 05:21
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Trabisnikof posted:This smug question exposes your own ignorance, do you think 100% of budgets would be required to provide free breakfast, lunch, and snacks? Still hungry people in America.
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May 23, 2019 05:23
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Why only 10%? why not 100%? Math classes can’t be more important than starving kids, right? You are correct, ensuring starving children eat is more important than math classes.
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May 23, 2019 05:24
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jzilla posted:You are correct, ensuring starving children eat is more important than math classes. Wait.
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May 23, 2019 05:25
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jzilla posted:You are correct, ensuring starving children eat is more important than math classes. Lets make cooking classes part of every classroom. Older kids feed the younger! Owlofcreamcheese posted:Wait. No, you wait! Breakfast needs time to load.
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May 23, 2019 05:26
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That was supposed to be “clearly each social program can only deal with its own scope and can only do so much for other social issues” I wasn’t expecting a bite on end mathematics education until world hunger has ended.
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May 23, 2019 05:26
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:That was supposed to be “clearly each social program can only deal with its own scope and can only do so much for other social issues” I wasn’t expecting a bite on end mathematics education until world hunger has ended. 
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May 23, 2019 05:28
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Every math book is a spoon full of food stolen from a starving child (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 23, 2019 05:30
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:That was supposed to be “clearly each social program can only deal with its own scope and can only do so much for other social issues” I wasn’t expecting a bite on end mathematics education until world hunger has ended. Weird how you're completely unaware that all the research into education and hunger shows that being hungry significantly reduces educational effectiveness. But keep throwing up straw about how everyone is demanding a cure to world hunger....
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May 23, 2019 05:30
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Every math book is a spoon full of food stolen from a starving child  What about productivity?!
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May 23, 2019 05:33
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Listen, if you don't want to give Pearson $200 per student in licensing fees, you hate math.
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May 23, 2019 05:34
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Trabisnikof posted:Weird how you're completely unaware that all the research into education and hunger shows that being hungry significantly reduces educational effectiveness. Yeah man, kids should be fed, but not from classroom budget. Cancer funding should not be cut out of food stamps either. This isn’t advanced stuff. society can run more than one social program. Math class and food can both happen.
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May 23, 2019 05:41
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah man, kids should be fed, but not from classroom budget. Cancer funding should not be cut out of food stamps either. This isn’t advanced stuff. Why shouldn't schools have budgets large enough to feed all the kids?
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May 23, 2019 05:42
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah man, kids should be fed, but not from classroom budget. Cancer funding should not be cut out of food stamps either. This isn’t advanced stuff. society can run more than one social program. Math class and food can both happen. If you ran the hospitals, patients would be required to go get their own meals I see...don't want to waste treatment funding on meal service!
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May 23, 2019 05:44
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I don't have any concrete data to back me up, admittedly, but I'd hazard a guess that a student who's house- or food-insecure and has access to the best possible educational resources is still going to have, on average, a lovely outcome compared to a student who is neither of those things but makes due with an old textbook and limited technology, or even lovely teachers.
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May 23, 2019 05:46
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Trabisnikof posted:If you ran the hospitals, patients would be required to go get their own meals I see...don't want to waste treatment funding on meal service! I legitimately don’t know how hospital food works in single payer healthcare countries.
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May 23, 2019 05:52
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I legitimately don’t know how hospital food works in single payer healthcare countries. Well, uh, the hospital provides food for the patients in the hospital, and then gets paid for it by the government. Just like when they provide medical care to the patients in the hospital. That's how it works. It's not some grand loving mystery, you imbecile.
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May 23, 2019 05:58
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I may as well not have OOCC on ignore. Dude is a motherfucking dumbfuck and y'all need to stop engaging him.
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May 23, 2019 06:02
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PT6A posted:I don't have any concrete data to back me up, admittedly, but I'd hazard a guess that a student who's house- or food-insecure and has access to the best possible educational resources is still going to have, on average, a lovely outcome compared to a student who is neither of those things but makes due with an old textbook and limited technology, or even lovely teachers. Student ID number correlates with math scores better than nearly any factor because they assign them sequentially and even something as dumb and abstract as that captures the fact home life dwarfs anything schools do in outcomes (presumably the stability of a home that registers for kindergarten the day registration opens vs the kid dragged in by the cops in November) Kids need to be fed. Just not out of classroom budget. That already got cut as far down as it goes. Pay that stuff out of aircraft carriers or something.
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May 23, 2019 06:02
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:That was supposed to be “clearly each social program can only deal with its own scope and can only do so much for other social issues” I wasn’t expecting a bite on end mathematics education until world hunger has ended. Well clearly they can't. The choice is between having starving children in the classrooms or taking funding from elsewhere to feed them. You might think you are being hyperbolic with your food versus math, but it's a choice that some schools do have to make.
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May 23, 2019 06:04
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jzilla posted:Well clearly they can't. The choice is between having starving children in the classrooms or taking funding from elsewhere to feed them. You might think you are being hyperbolic with your food versus math, but it's a choice that some schools do have to make. Can you name the schools that pick not to teach math? Instead of still being required to teach math exactly as much but spread even thinner?
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May 23, 2019 06:08
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I particularly liked the part where books and physical media wear out and have to be replaced, but chromebooks... chromebooks are forever. We need to quit living in 1987. Coincidentally, that's roughly the last time we got budgetary approval for new textbooks.   Those (books from an Oklahoma school, circa 2018) are in worse of condition than my textbooks were in high school back in the 90s, but I distinctly remember being amazed that my biology textbook was from the 60s. Sundae fucked around with this message at 06:13 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 06:11
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Will technology even meaningfully solve the problem of textbook costs? I mean, lord knows textbooks aren't horribly expensive because books are an expensive luxury, they're expensive because textbook publishers are greedy as all gently caress. That would apply equally to digital materials, except now they'd probably also charge some sort of subscription fee.
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May 23, 2019 06:18
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Sundae posted:I particularly liked the part where books and physical media wear out and have to be replaced, but chromebooks... chromebooks are forever. Those look worn out. What should they replace them with?
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May 23, 2019 06:20
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PT6A posted:Will technology even meaningfully solve the problem of textbook costs? I mean, lord knows textbooks aren't horribly expensive because books are an expensive luxury, they're expensive because textbook publishers are greedy as all gently caress. That would apply equally to digital materials, except now they'd probably also charge some sort of subscription fee. Text books aren’t really bought al la cart. Schools aren’t failing to replace 25 books that cost 75 dollars each. They are unable to replace the curriculum that costs 75,000 dollars. Like I said in either case the physical objects arent the big cost in schools.
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May 23, 2019 06:24
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Doggles posted:How about we get this thread back on topic by discussing how self-driving car companies treat human lives as the cost of beta testing their software? Whatever the state of self driving cars actually is, companies betting their future (see Tesla and Uber) are necessarily going to be cutting corners, so I don't find this surprising. Doubly so because I remember reading about a similar problem last year or so. On the other hand, it is pretty nice to have media starting (?) to critically evaluate the technology rather than just writing fawning techno-optimist fluff pieces.
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May 23, 2019 06:36
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I legitimately don’t know how hospital food works in single payer healthcare countries. Same way it works in America, hospital pays a catering company to handle the food, or has some in house staff handle it. Only difference is the government pays the hospital rather than the hospital trying to bankrupt someone.
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May 23, 2019 06:54
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Here is a fun article. Some app called Earnin is slinging just in time payday loans because, at his last company, the founder wasn't paying his employees enough and they were constantly asking him for money. When he left the company he says he felt bad he couldn't do it anymore, so he started Earnin. Which the founder describes as "a way of creating a more equitable financial system for the millions of people on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder." The supposedly innovative part of this company is that they do not charge fees, but instead ask for tips. Unsurprisingly, the company is in trouble with the New York Department of Financial Services because leaving tips allows the user to borrow more money and the tips apparently result in usury-like interest rates. You will also unsurprised to hear that the company has raised $190 million in funding. There is a lot of good stuff in the article, but I particularly like when the author points out that he could have simply paid his employees more and he pivots immediately to his spiel about bills and paychecks not lining up and half of Americans don't have $400 for an emergency: quote:When I asked [the founder] if he thinks these problems could be solved by paying workers more, he agreed that it’s “always better for people to have larger paychecks,” but stressed that there’s a “timing issue” with when they get paid as well. “Bills don’t show up on payday,” he said; they’re often due before the direct deposit hits. [the founder] said Earnin is addressing this problem with a financial calendar that helps people keep track of when their paychecks are coming in and when their bills are due, which he said can help users with budgeting. Another feature, Balance Shield, helps prevent overdraft fees by alerting users when their checking account balance falls below a certain threshold and, if they want, automatically transferring money to them via Earnin. There is also the example use case who "currently works as a nanny, handles a children’s clothing company’s social media accounts, and sells clothing online." A gig worker who likes Earnin because it lets her borrow money when she needs it. The final feature is HealthAId: quote:[A] service that will give users access to patient advocates who will help them negotiate down their medical bills, set up payment plans, or secure financial aid. Like Earnin, HealthAid will function on a tip system. This app is doing a lot of heavy lifting. It wants to narrow inequality, prevent overdraft fees, smooth income for gig workers and help people with their medical bills and all of this without charging any money. What a "noble" creation! This is the perfect example of doing well by doing good. Look at all of these problems they are trying to solve without charging. Left unsaid, however, is that all of these problems were caused by the capitalism that is looking to fix them and that there are non-market, non-technical solutions to these problems: paying employees more, employing them regularly, regulating overdraft fees and large-scale reform of the American healthcare system. The problem is that the owners of the $190 million want to make more money, not spend it on actually fixing the problem. My absolute favorite part is when the nanny lays down a great point on the status of the inequality of technology itself (at the very end): quote:For customers like Myra Haq, though, Earnin is a necessary service, even if she isn’t entirely comfortable with handing over her bank information and other sensitive data to a VC-backed startup. “I’m a little uncomfortable with it, but I’m not uncomfortable [enough] with it to not use it,” she said. “I think it takes a degree of privilege to be able to keep all your information private.”
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May 23, 2019 07:49
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AOC's on a roll in topics that suit this thread. https://twitter.com/mat/status/1131293432075341824 https://twitter.com/Public_Citizen/status/1131306872722608129 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1131238601830879233 https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1131236386898624513 She makes a very interesting point about the privacy right that Roe v. Wade was decided on being a lot more fundamental than abortion, for all that abortion is the wedge being used to try and reverse it.
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May 23, 2019 07:57
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please stop arguing with OOCC
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May 23, 2019 13:15
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Folks, let's compromise: feed the kids those Chromebooks.
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May 23, 2019 13:39
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PT6A posted:Will technology even meaningfully solve the problem of textbook costs? I mean, lord knows textbooks aren't horribly expensive because books are an expensive luxury, they're expensive because textbook publishers are greedy as all gently caress. That would apply equally to digital materials, except now they'd probably also charge some sort of subscription fee.
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May 23, 2019 14:12
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Cicero posted:There's the potential for solving it, sure. That's the idea behind open textbooks, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStax Now there is an actual good example of using ideas from the tech industry to support schools.
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May 23, 2019 14:25
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Literally a real school that I literally work at. Is your school buying new computers instead of fixing the roof?
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May 23, 2019 17:14
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Are you a teacher OOCC?
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May 23, 2019 18:36
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