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vyelkin posted:It really, really, won't. Although China is now the highest CO2 emitter by far, the vast majority of top emitters are developed countries. Even if the global south disappeared tomorrow, the carbon emissions from the developed world would still be enough to push us into climate apocalypse. And lol just lol if you think "global poor" countries like China or India or Bangladesh or Indonesia are going to just peacefully lay down and die because they're doomed instead of doing everything possible to survive, like declaring war on their neighbours who still have fertile cropland, or initiating mass migrations of billions of people trying to get to the parts of the world that are still habitable. Basically for a lot of people who aren’t refugees or asylum seekers fleeing immediate threat to life, the entire reason for living in a western country is to pursue a higher standard of living. A car An air conditioned house or apartment More personal space Boarding a flight to go on vacations somewhere in the world. Personal safety (relative to say a Brazilian major city) Internet access Conveniences I think (from my perspective) a lot of turmoil for millennials comes from the fact that older generations took this away and we have either struggled harder to reach that living standard or just got stuck somewhere in the middle of Mount Everest (read: Capitalist). There’s definitely major class envy right now and rightfully so. A lot of us grew up believing we were gonna make it. That we were the blessed generation that would have fancy white collar jobs, cars, white picket fences the whole shebang. It’s not our fault. Society indoctrinated everyone to want these things. We grew up watching people (like our parents) labour away to get there and then succeed. We wanted it for ourselves because we were surrounded by the examples of it everywhere. Even if no one tells you this is what you’re supposed I do, we start life mimicking the expectations and strategies those who came before us took because they “work”. We were so sure of ourselves too. Until we realized everyone from our parents to our guidance councillors sold us a bill of goods and the economy that allowed these things to happen no longer existed. I remember growing up in a suburb and going through school. My parents couldn’t afford to get me something like a car. But my neighbors could for their kids. I remember missing out on a lot of opportunities social or otherwise just because I had to depend on an extremely ineffective transit system. Spent my entire life dreaming about the day I’d get some wheels so I can go anywhere I wanted without feeling imprisoned. I didn’t know the secret was to figure out how to live in a dense urban area where no one else needed a car. I didn’t have that example. It was all I knew. I didn’t know any better. A lot of people don’t know any better. The only reason in my opinion that millennials are so woke about climate change is precisely because a lot of the things I listed above were denied to them by the new economy. They grew up never having access to these things or experiencing a painful revelation where they had to reinvent themselves and what they valued. That never happened to me. Somehow through sheer blind luck I managed to buck the trend and check every item off on that list. So now everything I strived for turns out to be killing the planet and now I have to give it all up. Most of you have no empathy for this given the struggles of the world. But it is extremely difficult to give things up that you once had. Your standard of living has to go down so others may live. That’s a sacrifice. It feels like a sacrifice. It’s one not a lot of people will willingly make. I’m probably gonna get savaged by Rime, Helsing and Pinterest Mom for making this post but this is legitimately a struggle in a world where the absence of worse problems leaves you with these first world problems. What’s a post climate change life going to look like if we enact the entire wishlist? No electricity? No cars? Sitting in a crowded sweltering hot apartment? Like I seriously don’t know. But I want to know. We tell people we have to give things up. But they say “you first” and keep on trucking. How do you change an entire culture? How do you give people things to live for when all the things they thought they had to live for are going to end human civilization? Modern day life is a miracle. In less than 8 hours I can go to another continent. The same trip used to take over a month or two just a few short centuries ago. Often you risked disease and death to make the trip. How do you convince yourself to give all that up when the threat though dire and imminent doesn’t seem to press you individually? I’ll end this monologue by saying that I achieved all my goals and plunged into a 2 year depression after experiencing a crisis where all the things I thought I wanted would make me happy didn’t. I recovered but it wasn’t fun. Even without climate change, today’s model for what we think makes us happy is a lie and societal changes are necessary for the betterment of collective mental health. As a society we are going to need to reinvent ourselves on a psychological level, not just a Economic and urban planning level. There’s more than a billion people in the world today who each think their carbon footprint won’t make a difference so they carry on. Getting one or two people to cycle to work isn’t going to change things so my strategy is to enjoy these conveniences while I can and mentally prepare myself for the inevitable time when poo poo hits the fan and I have to give it all up. EDIT: After a bit of googling I found an article helpful about the topic: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20181102-what-can-i-do-about-climate-change I think I’m well equipped to do most of these things. Unlike a lot of people I don’t actually care about eating meat. I only eat poultry and fish anyway because I don’t want heart disease so this part is really easy. I think of all the things on the list here the most difficult for me will be giving up flying and giving up my car. But maybe I’ll be one of those lucky privileged few to get an electric vehicle. I don’t want kids but if I do I only want one child. I think you need at least two just to replace yourself so I’m good there. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 15:49 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 15:01
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https://twitter.com/garveyschild/status/1131592161785536517?s=19
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May 24, 2019 15:02
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The poor families you will have with you always, but you will not always have Drake with you
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May 24, 2019 15:08
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SCC: That trucker who killed Cindy Gladue is going back to court for a fair trial because the last one was a master class in how not to treat a deceased victim
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May 24, 2019 16:04
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Kraftwerk posted:Basically for a lot of people who aren’t refugees or asylum seekers fleeing immediate threat to life, the entire reason for living in a western country is to pursue a higher standard of living.
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May 24, 2019 20:00
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God's plan
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May 24, 2019 20:37
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Jehde posted:
Are you saying this isn’t available to you or you chose to live this way because you don’t value it? I come from a 1st gen immigrant demographic. I grew up watching people burn wood ovens or coal furnaces to get heating during winters. I progressed from civil war, intermittent blackouts and coal fired home heating to central AC and a decent job. The entire reason people in my demographic live here is to be able to have a safe, and comfortable life and decent rule of law. I haven’t experienced any threat to my life from drivers either. But I came from a country where drivers are crazy and you really have to look both ways when you cross because you could actually get hit. Drivers in Toronto yield to jaywalking pedestrians. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 21:15
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Kraftwerk posted:Drivers in Toronto yield to jaywalking pedestrians. sometimes, if they feel like it https://twitter.com/meyer_lucas/sta...n-crosswalks%2F
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May 24, 2019 21:22
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Also I literally moved from Toronto because the drivers there were threatening my safety daily. I decided it wasn't worth it.
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May 24, 2019 21:23
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RBC posted:Also I literally moved from Toronto because the drivers there were threatening my safety daily. I decided it wasn't worth it. Can you give me some examples? I’m shocked to be honest. I’ve always been used to the idea that I could cross the street looking at my phone without worrying about death. Is it drivers making right turns at crowded intersections that you’re trying to cross?
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May 24, 2019 21:25
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Kraftwerk posted:Can you give me some examples? I’m shocked to be honest. I’ve always been used to the idea that I could cross the street looking at my phone without worrying about death. I had 4 of those pedestrian crossing posted above, on my mail route, on two of the busiest streets in Toronto. I had more close calls than I can count, of drivers blowing through them while I was walking across. I had probably at least 1 close call every month, of a driver nearly hitting me while crossing at intersections, at stop signs, gently caress, even just walking on the sidewalk. I remember I had one SUV, literally drive over the sidewalk in a foot in front of me, to get around construction. And that's just walking. While driving, I had innumerable stuff happen. I had a coworker hit and kill a motorcyclist through no fault of his own. Eventually, I decided enough is enough. If I am going to deliver mail, I'm not doing it in that city because it's too dangerous being on the street all day.
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May 24, 2019 21:32
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RBC posted:I had 4 of those pedestrian crossing posted above, on my mail route, on two of the busiest streets in Toronto. I had more close calls than I can count, of drivers blowing through them while I was walking across. I had probably at least 1 close call every month, of a driver nearly hitting me while crossing at intersections, at stop signs, gently caress, even just walking on the sidewalk. I remember I had one SUV, literally drive over the sidewalk in a foot in front of me, to get around construction. And that's just walking. Holy poo poo. So they just flat out don’t care about pedestrian crossing. That’s really hosed up.
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May 24, 2019 21:42
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Kraftwerk posted:Holy poo poo. So they just flat out don’t care about pedestrian crossing. That’s really hosed up. I lived on a major street in Toronto, across the street from an elementary school. This was every single day. https://twitter.com/g_meslin/status/1007610220992921600
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May 24, 2019 21:43
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Kraftwerk posted:Are you saying this isn’t available to you or you chose to live this way because you don’t value it? I'll reply to this rather than the longer post. I was born in Canada. I grew up on the extreme edge of poverty. I remember my mother crying on the kitchen floor after getting off the phone with Welfare, after the Campbell Liberals slashed that program to the bone, wondering how we would eat. Even before that, I remember her subsisting on yogurt and little else, so that my brother and I could eat. I remember eating chicken drumsticks and plain rice for dinner for six months, because that's all we could afford. I didn't own clothes which weren't from the thrift store until I could get my own job in my teens. Burning wood for heat? We wore multiple sweaters and blankets at home because we couldn't afford the loving hydro in the winter mate. I am now 29 years old. The only time I've taken more than a week off work since I was 16 loving years old was in 2014, when I was unceremoniously fired after being hosed over a barrel by the startup I got off the ground, and this month after my contract ended. Every time I have tried to get ahead in this loving country, it has been snatched away from me. Every time I have made a little bit more money, or advanced materially in some form, the cost of living has spiked through the loving roof and I have ended up right back where I loving started. I have been funneling my savings to my family my entire loving life, and I am never going to claw us out of poverty at this rate. Because of a society made up of loving idiots like you. gently caress your asinine idiotic ivory tower loving conception of what people need, or should want, in this loving country. I wish I could loving flee halfway around the world, take my family with me, and attain a higher standard of life. What a loving beautiful idea. I can't, because we're living in the endgame of consumer capitalism. Globally. It's eating the lower classes like me to sustain itself and it's poisoning our entire loving planet at the same time. The poo poo sandwich of economic privation I've been eating since birth is going to come to you and everyone you know, in time. But people like you are too loving stupid to be out there doing even the bare minimum of the needful to keep that at bay anymore, so at best you get a few years of comfort before you too start to feel the pain. That way of life you came from? You're headed straight back to it because of you how loving live today. I don't give a gently caress if you can't have a loving car or an air conditioner anymore, I don't give a piping hot poo poo that you won't be able to drive two hours over to get laid. Boo. loving Hoo. gently caress you and gently caress everyone like you. Now sure, sit back in your chair and think to yourself "hoo boy, Rime has really lost it this time.". No, you wait five to ten loving years until more people in my position have finally woken up and realized that they have no hope, no future, and thanks to the collapse of industrial agriculture they can no longer afford to eat. You look long and hard at this seething white hot ball of rage in text form, and imagine how it's going to manifest towards people bitching that they can't keep up a life of consumer convenience at the expense of the entire loving planet. Be. loving. Afraid.
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May 24, 2019 21:54
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Kraftwerk posted:I haven’t experienced any threat to my life from drivers either. That you are aware of. That situation probably has something to do with this: Kraftwerk posted:I’ve always been used to the idea that I could cross the street looking at my phone without worrying about death. Just look up from the drat phone for the 10 seconds it takes to cross. Only takes one person blowing the red and it's over man, or maybe you get lucky and just sit in a wheelchair the rest of your life. Driving culture is hella hosed. It's always been basically legal to kill anyone you want with your car as long as you make sure to do it sober.
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May 24, 2019 21:57
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Kraftwerk posted:Are you saying this isn’t available to you or you chose to live this way because you don’t value it? Bit of both, somethings really are out of my control though, like humane internet and air travel. But I'm an nth generation canadian who hasn't experienced how bad the rest of the world has it, so first world problems and all that. I just find it a bit funny that all the headlines of the In Vancouver I used to feel safe enough, not that long ago, to walk across a crosswalk with my nose buried in my phone. Driver safety has gotten exponentially worse since, and I no longer feel safe after looking both ways twice, and pocketing my phone until I can make it across safely. This phenomenon probably isn't that apparent outside of the major city centres. See also the sudden rise of texting and driving though. People are giving less and less of a gently caress every day, inside and outside of cars.
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May 24, 2019 22:00
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https://twitter.com/SusanDelacourt/status/1132016577866620928
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May 24, 2019 22:10
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I'll put my money on them joining the Greens. Don't really see any other options that make sense.
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May 24, 2019 22:13
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The comedy option would be them joining the PPC.
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May 24, 2019 22:18
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I think it's gotta be the Greens. We've seen from the last provincial election in BC and the most recent by-election that the Greens are a natural place for disaffected Liberals.
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May 24, 2019 22:28
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Still better than blowing half a million on hookers
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May 24, 2019 22:35
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Rime posted:I'll reply to this rather than the longer post. So what your situation is all my fault? I wasn’t even born when poo poo hit the fan for you. What do you want me to do? Break up with my gf, sell my car and live on a farming commune somewhere? Is that what it’s gonna take to satisfy you? I had it a little better than you did but are you seriously telling me you wouldn’t have done the same? I’m just trying to get by same as everyone else. I don’t know what you want me to do. It sounds like you won’t be satisfied until I get dropped down a few pegs and live as miserably as you do. I honestly have no ill will towards you and I’d want nothing more than to help build a society that prevents cases like yours from taking place. But goddamn are you being a completely toxic piece of poo poo right now. Like seriously you’re even describing my relationship like it’s some kind of luxury what the gently caress man. It’s not cool. And for what it’s worth if push came to shove we’d figure out a way to live together and give up the car lifestyle as soon as it’s feasible. I’m even working on coming up with a business case for my employer to just let me work remotely 90% of the time and only come into the offices when absolutely necessary. I’m not the one you should be directing your anger towards. It’s the drat government and the people who rig elections and public policy for the rich you should be mad it. If we had climate legislation come down I’d co-operate. Im not gonna fight it it. Im not gonna go all Doug Ford reactionary and say there’s a war on cars and hold on for dear life. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 22:48 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 22:36
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If you can't understand Rime's frustration because of your sense of entitlement towards all the things you have that others simply cannot, and how it's unfair to even consider giving them up, you're gonna have a real fun time when the roving cannibal gangs come knocking!
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May 24, 2019 22:46
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Million Ghosts posted:If you can't understand Rime's frustration because of your sense of entitlement towards all the things you have that others simply cannot, and how it's unfair to even consider giving them up, you're gonna have a real fun time when the roving cannibal gangs come knocking! So what would you have me do then? Tell me. What’s it going to take for someone like me to at least build some sort of common ground with someone like Rime. Clearly I’m privileged and that’s become evident. But it’s born out of ignorance not stupidity. You live life with your blinders on and deal with your own problems and it’s not easy to notice or think about other people’s problems or how your seemingly unrelated actions affect them. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 22:58 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 22:53
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Kraftwerk posted:So what would you have me do then? Tell me. 
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May 24, 2019 22:57
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First of all you could not make blanket statements like saying "millenials only care about the environment now because it's getting in the way of them getting what they want." If you're younger than Rime that outs you around my age and I disagree with a lot of what you said. Yes, I do things out of self interest a lot of the time but to say that I'm defined by my selfishness and desire to have things that the world has screwed me out of is insulting. I also like how you acquired all the things that you envied and now you're suddenly super defensive when people suddenly want to take them away because they're killing the planet. But you can't seem to come up with an alternative. You think that a post climate change wishlist means you're not allowed to have an air conditioner anymore, which is an absurd statement. Advancement doesn't mean that we get rid of everything bad and treat it as a dead end, it means we find a better and safer way to accomplish the same goals. You'll get rid of your crappy old AC and get a new one that isn't going to gently caress up the electrical bill Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 23:05 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 23:00
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Arcsquad12 posted:First of all you could not make blanket statements like saying "millenials only care about the environment now because it's getting in the way of them getting what they want." If you're younger than Rime that outs you around my age and I disagree with a lot of what you said. Yes, I do things out of self interest a lot of the time but to say that I'm defined by my selfishness and desire to have things that the world has screwed me out of is insulting. Good, I was wrong. I’ll do better next time. I’ll educate myself. The millennials are the first generation to not have access to the things the generations before them had access to that much is for certain. Having established that who decides what is a reasonable aspiration versus an unreasonable one? How do we even quantify something like that? Can we really expect everyone in the world to be so woke as to know the finer points of urban planning and carbon neutral living? Like me a lot of people don’t even realize just how much their lifestyle is actively harming others. I’m learning about it the hard way by putting myself in the hot seat here in this thread. The harder way is Mad Max style living or an extinction event that we no longer can avert. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 23:08 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 23:02
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My analysis of our collective environmental future is very close to Rime and Hellsing’s and the environmental scientist buddies I have say that it’s getting difficult for everyone in their field who actually see daily where we’re headed to not require counselling. What makes me mad about your take on all of this is that you seem to understand where we’re headed and seem to be saying what’s the point, let’s squeeze a few more good years out of this thing. It’s hard to not sound hyperbolic, but the fight for an immediate transition to a totally green economy is the fight for the continued existence of life on earth. 10 years ago, our enemy was climate change deniers. No one believes them anymore and they are no longer the problem. Our enemy today are people who argue for anything that would delay immediate and aggressive action. Carbon taxes will not save us, Teslas will not save us, probably not even a worldwide green new deal will save us. But it could make it that humanity continues to exist in a meaningful way and anyone who has not yet decided to check out should be throwing themselves into doing everything they can to make it happen. This coming generation will not be kind to anyone who robbed them of their future. I’m a teacher and literally all of my students are mad as hell about it. Get on board with the program or expect to have a Gen Zoomer flossing over your corpse right before they collect your teeth to add to their necklace.
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May 24, 2019 23:05
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The Butcher posted:I'll put my money on them joining the Greens. It'll be some release against Trudeau/PMO I bet.
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May 24, 2019 23:05
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Postess with the Mostest posted:It'll be some release against Trudeau/PMO I bet. It’s pretty frustrating the amount of people on Facebook cheering the possibility of having them join the Green Party. They didn’t resign because of anything environmental related they resigned because they were shuffled for resisting corruption. I mean at least it would out the Greens for what this thread had shown me what they really are.
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May 24, 2019 23:14
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Kraftwerk posted:Good, I was wrong. I’ll do better next time. I’ll educate myself. We quantify reasonable by not pressure cooking ourselves so the "middle class" (don't forget those working hard to join!!) can drive a goddamn SUV. Carbon neutral living isn't even especially the point, the point is not burning more than your fair share and getting indignant when people aren't exactly excited for you to be able to do it with impunity. e: by the way, if you have a car and an office job you're far far closer to middle class than Rime, me, and probably a ton of other people trying to get the point across Million Ghosts fucked around with this message at 23:20 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 23:14
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ARACHTION posted:10 years ago, our enemy was climate change deniers. Worst part of this was everyone who cared called it from the start that it was going to go: 1. Climate change is a hoax 2. Well, it's happening, but it's natural 3. Ok, it's our fault, but there's no other choice 4. We will just solve the problem with technology And it's played out like that to the letter. I guess step 5 is "We tried to solve it with technology, but it turns out it was too late anyway. Check out this cool new skull I got for my war rig!"
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May 24, 2019 23:23
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Million Ghosts posted:We quantify reasonable by not pressure cooking ourselves so the "middle class" (don't forget those working hard to join!!) can drive a goddamn SUV. Carbon neutral living isn't even especially the point, the point is not burning more than your fair share and getting indignant when people aren't exactly excited for you to be able to do it with impunity. What is my fair share? How many KM per year am I allowed to drive with a 1.4L motor? If the answer is zero, it’s going to take some time to rework my life to make that work. Starting with accelerating the process of living together with my partner, figuring out how to telecommute etc. My hydro bill is metered from the building I live in and I pay 50 per month. I don’t buy clothes unless the ones I have are ripped. I tore the elbows on a dress shirt recently and converted it to a short sleeved shirt instead. I don’t buy new cellphones if the one I have still works. I spend my time going on walks, working in an office, gaming and occasionally going out with friends, like once a month. Since I’m drinking I’m not driving so an Uber, DD or public transit handles that. All my clothes come from outlet stores like Sears before it was shut down. I get stuff on clearance whenever I can and need to do so. I drink beer from time to time but I’ve cut that out for health reasons. My Tv is over a decade old. I don’t have any other fancy electronics. My bed, couch, chair, etc are all hand me downs. I’m satisfied with this and don’t need much else. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 23:31 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 23:28
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Riding the bus sucks but guess what! I do it every day and soon so will you, at least until that collapses too. e: To be less lovely, yeah it's basically 0. it's going to require massive lifestyle change on everyone's part and you just happen to fall in to a demographic that's gonna have it rougher, and is going to probably need to be dragged kicking and screaming along. Thems the breaks. Million Ghosts fucked around with this message at 23:34 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 23:30
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Kraftwerk posted:What is my fair share? How many KM per year am I allowed to drive with a 1.4L motor? If the answer is zero, it’s going to take some time to rework my life to make that work. Starting with accelerating the process of living together with my partner, figuring out how to telecommute etc. My hydro bill is metered from the building I live in and I pay 50 per month. I don’t buy clothes unless the ones I have are ripped. I tore the elbows on a dress shirt recently and converted it to a short sleeved shirt instead. I don’t buy new cellphones if the one I have still works. I spend my time going on walks, working in an office, gaming and occasionally going out with friends, like once a month. Since I’m drinking I’m not driving so an Uber, DD or public transit handles that. All my clothes come from outlet stores like Sears before it was shut down. I get stuff on clearance whenever I can and need to do so. I drink beer from time to time but I’ve cut that out for health reasons. My Tv is over a decade old. I don’t have any other fancy electronics. My bed, couch, chair, etc are all hand me downs. I’m satisfied with this and don’t need much else. Or you could just stop listening to the chronically depressed doomsayers of the CanPol thread and live your life however you feel is best.
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May 24, 2019 23:34
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PT6A posted:Or you could just stop listening to the chronically depressed doomsayers of the CanPol thread and live your life however you feel is best. *rolls coal*
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May 24, 2019 23:35
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Are we seriously equating the danger of being run over as a pedestrian in Canada to the lack of personal security in a country like Brazil?
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May 24, 2019 23:35
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I do equate someone accelerating their car towards me in a crosswalk to someone pointing a gun at me. However for some reason one of those cases of threatening bodily harm with a dangerous machine is socially accepted, and even expected and encouraged by most.  I think most people in this thread are mad about the car farts more so than the safety stuff though, I just got beef from almost getting run over every other day. Personal cars are a dumb luxury. I'm moving out of this city as soon as I can afford to. Jehde fucked around with this message at 00:02 on May 25, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 23:56
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Jehde posted:I do equate someone accelerating their car towards me in a crosswalk to someone pointing a gun at me. However for some reason one of those cases of threatening bodily harm with a dangerous machine is socially accepted, and even expected and encouraged by most. I'm pretty sure if you compare the rate of pedestrian collisions and the percentage of those that are fatal to the amount of gun violence and the percentages of that which is fatal in a country like Brazil its going to paint a pretty different picture. I agree people drive like idiots in Vancouver and wish that our speed limits were actually enforced but I don't think its relevant to try and draw a parallel between the risk of deliberate violence being inflicted upon you in a country like Brazil and the chance of being run over and hurt/killed in Vancouver.
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May 25, 2019 00:09
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The original point of that part of my dumb reply was to highlight the asterisk that accompanies the "expected luxuries" Kraftwerk was highlighting as parts of the immigrant dream. It wasn't even really that useful for the environment debate, just thought the difference in perspective was funny. For the personal safety thing, sure you can be pretty much guaranteed personal safety in Canada, just as long as you fully respect the automotive overlords. Of course this is a poo poo tonne better than basically anywhere else in the world, that would have other safety issues to deal with on top of whatever crazy driving culture they got. Like Canada has to be the safest country in the world I'd think, outside of statistical anomalies like monarchist micro-nations in Europe. But that doesn't mean we can't highlight that there are very real and relatively recent threats to personal safety that are on the rise.
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May 25, 2019 00:25
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