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nessin posted:I don't understand half of the Senate screen, but I don't understand half of the EU4/CK2 screens until I spend several hours playing with them and committing the icon symbols to memory. I think a lot of the problems with the UI can be boiled down to people having many hours in other games where they long forgot how long it took to get used to the UI and now have to learn a new one. Which maybe still means it is a lovely UI, but that means it's lovely everywhere and not unique to Imperator. I started playing eu4 about two months ago and learned what I needed to over a weekend and after watching a lets play. I played Imperator with Arumba's Phyrgia series and a similar time investment and I still cant make heads or tails of the ui.
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May 23, 2019 05:33
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The interface is shockingly bad. Moving pops takes far too many clicks, has to be done one by one, and requires scrolling through a screen that will only show you ~10 of them at a time. Pops can only be assimilated/converted one at a time, whether on the pop screen or the macro builder. There's no army builder and no way to queue up multiple cohorts/ships to be built at once, so you will again be recruiting them one by one. Critical information for understanding how your government works is often squirreled away in hard to find tooltips. Everything is the same shade of low contrast white marble. The interface needs some serious work, and maybe also some splashes of reconstructed classical color.
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May 23, 2019 07:37
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My personal most hateful UI issue is the province screen. When I look for trade from a city screen I can only see that I have 5 unhappy tribesmen in a current city. Do I have to import Woad? Maybe there are no tribesmen in other cities. That I can check on the province screen. But what if all other tribesmen are happy? How high is commerce income from that province, should I import anything that boosts commerce income? Should I maybe assimilate or convert people here, can I know how many infidels are here? Mapmode will show me if there are provinces with infidel majority, but to know if there are any infidels at all I have to go to macro builder and try to convert/assimilate people from there. This extends to macrobuilder. I get CK2 system: you don't have many provinces under your direct control so when you build something you look at specific castle or town and decide what to do with it. But I:R is clearly EU4 on drugs in terms of quantity of provinces so it's baffling you don't have EU4 style option of selecting a building and seeing where will it be most impactful.
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May 23, 2019 10:12
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Ivan Shitskin posted:Maybe you're just tired of Paradox games? Nah I still play eu4 and stellaris a lot
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May 23, 2019 11:02
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 I wish we had the other launch data to compare, but this is definitely.. well, hard to imagine another Paradox sequel that everyone immediately gave up on. I was there for Vicky 2's release even, and while people whined no one just quit it (besides Ricky diehards, and there's no EU: Rome diehards).
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May 23, 2019 14:04
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When a new paradox game comes out I usually play it an embarassing amount at launch, no matter how broken, but I gotta admit that I:R has done extremely little to grip me- and it's not because i'm bored of the paradox formula, heck I got a couple of the ck2 dlc that i missed and have gone back to that for the first time in a few years instead, so my pleasure center is still brokenly obsessed with charts, map painting and royal incest, so I don't neccesarily think I'm the problem in this relationship
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May 23, 2019 14:09
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I don't get why I can't see the potential effects of buildings from the macro screen like you can in EU4. Do I really have to manually click through every province I have to find the ones that could use a marketplace? There's also no economic power map mode, so that compounds the issue.
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May 23, 2019 14:11
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Beamed posted:I wish we had the other launch data to compare, but this is definitely.. well, hard to imagine another Paradox sequel that everyone immediately gave up on. I was there for Vicky 2's release even, and while people whined no one just quit it (besides Ricky diehards, and there's no EU: Rome diehards). At Victoria 2 times there were no clear promises of a big patch solving a lot of issues and adding a lot of features next month. People cried about rebels but there was no devdiary saying that the whole system will be reworked soon.
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May 23, 2019 14:13
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I have to admit, with such a juicy patch in the works I can't be bothered to play anymore (already played about 50 hours so game = good value in my mind) I tried being a Gallic tribe again, and once again I got royally screwed over once I became a regional power, lost all my alliances and got roflstomped by everyone nearby. I tried being Egypt and the fact that they have a state culture / religion opposite to what it should be means you have to click approximately 10 million times to solve that poo poo there's no going "tall" here, management of your nation and events are not compelling enough, and when they are, they're not exactly working properly due to bad UI (have to promote/move each pop manually, no province view, trade is kind of opaque - why won't anyone trade iron to me? who knows - etc etc) it will be a great game in my opinion and I'm sure I'll spend a few hundred hours on it eventually. Just, I'm not going to play it now, it's pretty clear to me that they released it way too early. Edit: still excited about the patch and not regretting anything, btw 
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May 23, 2019 15:01
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TorakFade posted:I tried being a Gallic tribe again, and once again I got royally screwed over once I became a regional power, lost all my alliances and got roflstomped by everyone nearby. Real strange thing is that it happens with a random Civil War which makes you even more vulnurable.
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May 23, 2019 15:06
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ilitarist posted:At Victoria 2 times there were no clear promises of a big patch solving a lot of issues and adding a lot of features next month. People cried about rebels but there was no devdiary saying that the whole system will be reworked soon. Yeah, I bought it launch day, saw all of the forum complaints followed by "and there will be a real big patch in a month or so to unfuck everything" and haven't played it.
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May 23, 2019 15:57
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ilitarist posted:At Victoria 2 times there were no clear promises of a big patch solving a lot of issues and adding a lot of features next month. People cried about rebels but there was no devdiary saying that the whole system will be reworked soon. Most players don't obsessively follow the paradox forums for news like goons.
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May 23, 2019 16:55
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Starving pops should maybe just migrate on their own, getting that message is annoying, and not much I can do to solve it. This is the time of large migrations, and starving might have been a factor when people decide to move.
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May 23, 2019 17:24
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Beamed posted:Most players don't obsessively follow the paradox forums for news like goons. Imperator Rome launcher tells you about each devdiary.
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May 23, 2019 17:27
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ilitarist posted:Imperator Rome launcher tells you about each devdiary. If the game is so uncompelling people launch it, see an upcoming patch and say to themselves "oh, what's the point then", then close it.. well, you're indicting the game way more than I am I guess.
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May 23, 2019 17:32
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In retrospect, maybe telling people trying to launch the game about all the ways the poo poo that sucks now will be addressed *later* is not the best way to encourage play.
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May 23, 2019 17:39
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Man these defenses of the game are *reaching*. Just accept it's a bland open alpha that no one should pay $40 for. Yeah it might be worth playing in the future but nearly everyone is experiencing the "10 hours played and no desire to return" feeling.
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May 23, 2019 18:01
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Once a week I pick my Syracuse game back up to give it another shot and then quit after 30 minutes once I have to manage my pops or ping pong pirates or interact with the ui at all.
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May 23, 2019 18:04
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Average Bear posted:nearly everyone is experiencing the "10 hours played and no desire to return" feeling. In before some pointless comparison to movie ticket prices.
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May 23, 2019 18:04
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i didnt read this thread and have no intention to do this is just a standard paradox game formal request for someone to please pm me when this game has been patched into a playable state please and thank you
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May 23, 2019 18:09
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Earwicker posted:i didnt read this thread and have no intention to do this is just a standard paradox game formal request for someone to please pm me when this game has been patched into a playable state please and thank you Siri, set timer for four years.
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May 23, 2019 18:36
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I want the population to matter more, and feel more like a population. I want hiring and losing regiments to directly correlate with say Freeman. If I lose a battle and 20k manpower, that should be seen in my population with for example 20 freeman pops gone. This would be incredibly cool in long wars where both countriesides would be ravaged with nearly no manpower populations left. Of course it needs to be balanced to make it work like this. The cool thing about fighting a war in Vic 2 was that if you lost manpower in battle, they were actually gone in the world too. The Eu4 version of manpower that Imperator uses is just pretty boring. 100 pops = certain amount of total manpower and manpower regeneration. Doing interesting things with population is what is going to make me love this game.
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May 23, 2019 18:39
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Chomp8645 posted:Siri, set timer for four years. It’ll be in the “bloated mess” phase by then
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May 23, 2019 19:04
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Chomp8645 posted:Siri, set timer for four years. nah it varies by game. Stellaris was pretty decent about a year after release. on the other hand HOI3 never got there at all. hoping this one falls somewhere in the middle Earwicker fucked around with this message at 19:10 on May 23, 2019 |
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May 23, 2019 19:07
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Senor Dog posted:It’ll be in the “bloated mess” phase by then Yep. I think peak eu4 was sometime around Art of War or maybe a couple expansions after that. It's just too full of poo poo by now. We need another condensing + new game cycle. Eu5 when?
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May 23, 2019 19:22
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Yep. I think peak eu4 was sometime around Art of War or maybe a couple expansions after that. It's just too full of poo poo by now. We need another condensing + new game cycle. Eu5 when? I'd say it peaked with Rights of Man and went downhill after that. Especially after Mandate of Heaven came out, any time I ever wanted to go back and play EU4 again I rolled back to 1.19. I'd be interested in seeing how the latest DLCs have sold for it, seems like a lot of folks got burnt out and quit buying it.
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May 23, 2019 21:09
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The EU4 macro diplo thing is insanely good and I hope it makes it into Imperator (for free this time)
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May 23, 2019 22:08
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Azuren posted:I'd say it peaked with Rights of Man and went downhill after that. Especially after Mandate of Heaven came out, any time I ever wanted to go back and play EU4 again I rolled back to 1.19. I'd be interested in seeing how the latest DLCs have sold for it, seems like a lot of folks got burnt out and quit buying it. I'm fairly new to EU4 but I'm playing with all the DLC and its fine for me. Nothing has really felt too out of place to the point that when I talk to friends who are missing a few of DLCs its shocking what is actually behind a paywall because everything feels so integral or is just a straight up QoL improvement. Though I must admit that I haven't played that much in the far east or india and have spent more of my time in europe or the middle east. I've really like the Islam mechanics added in Cradle of Civilization. To wrap this back around to Imperator I would like to see them follow the newer pattern of DLC from both HoI4 and Stellaris where its all in one dlc with no seperate content pack and I hope that when they add a legitimate QoL improvment to the game they don't put it behind a paywall.
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May 23, 2019 22:35
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AnEdgelord posted:To wrap this back around to Imperator I would like to see them follow the newer pattern of DLC from both HoI4 and Stellaris where its all in one dlc with no seperate content pack and I hope that when they add a legitimate QoL improvment to the game they don't put it behind a paywall. I think they got enough backlash to their DLC policy during the lifecycle of EU4 that this will definitely be the case, hopefully having learned their lesson. Frankly, it feels to me like a lot of that backlash is being redirected into the negative reaction Imperator has received, over and beyond what I think it deserves ("game is decent but needed a few more months in the oven, UI tweaking and QoL improvements from prior games, and more flavor events" is pretty reasonable, imo, 2/3rds of Steam reviews being "game is poo poo, gently caress Paradox" is not)
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May 23, 2019 22:53
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Senor Dog posted:It’ll be in the “bloated mess” phase by then does this apply to CK2? I've really enjoyed the last few DLCs
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May 23, 2019 23:42
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indigi posted:does this apply to CK2? I've really enjoyed the last few DLCs It was in that phase around the India expansion point but I guess got better? I haven’t played it in a while but have heard good things
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May 24, 2019 00:24
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CK2 has done DLC mostly right. Don't want to play muslims? No need for sword of Islam. Earlier start dates and pagans not appealing? That's wrong but skip the old gods. Don't want to play India like everyone else? Skip rajas. Holy Fury is their best release yet, adding so many great features that are truly DLC worthy. Bloodlines, crusade overhaul, treasury, new events. Plus it lead to great works. EU4 DLC is much more disjointed. Even though each one adds a new tacked on system that barely interact with one another, you just need them all to play the full game. Else you miss stuff where you don't expect it, like the macro builder, development, transferring province control, estates... it's just all over the place.
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May 24, 2019 00:24
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Otoh that means you as the consumer are more enticed to buy DLC you'd otherwise not have any interest in. There's still a clear theme around each one too so it's not like you're just buying into a grab bag of whatever the gently caress. The CK2 DLCs are definitely cleaner though.
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May 24, 2019 00:36
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Koramei posted:Otoh that means you as the consumer are more enticed to buy DLC you'd otherwise not have any interest in. That was the problem, though. Rather than just flavor packs like "if you want to play region X, get this DLC, otherwise skip it. If you want to play religion Y, get this DLC, otherwise skip it." they became such a mish-mash of features that there ended up being a lengthy list of "required" DLCs just to play the game, especially when things like QoL features were locked behind a paywall, or for a while in the middle of EU4's lifespan there was a tendency to include the bad half of a mechanic in the free patch, while locking the good half behind the DLC. Eventually they lessened up on that (I believe things like development were eventually made part of a free patch, but I'd quit playing EU4 by then) but that's where a lot of the ill will regarding the DLC policy came from. The net result was that if you had been playing since release, it was no big deal to throw twenty bucks every six months or whatever to fund the continued evolution and development of the game, but it was effectively a daunting barrier to new players looking to get into the game, even with the periodic sales. And it contributed to the aforementioned feature bloat where there's a dozen bolted-on mechanics and numbers and buttons and the game badly needs to be consolidated into EU5 rather than continuing to add more. I never got into CK2 so only speaking of my experience with EU4 here. And I feel like Paradox learned from the backlash and eased up on the things people complained about, so I feel like Imperator's DLCs will be more along the lines of the good style rather than the bad.
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May 24, 2019 01:44
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I think people way overstated how "necessary" some of those DLCs were; Common Sense was sort of necessary if you wanted to play (optimally) outside of Europe, and Art of War made things a lot easier, but I don't really agree with the "you just need to have Army Professionalism" or whatever like so many of those lists went on about. It was really just one or two things you should probably buy in the end. Plus there were always a bunch of people complaining about how there was nothing in the DLC for them when they released the non-European ones. Yeah I totally agree it's better for the consumer, but I kind of get why Paradox would rather mix up their DLCs a bit than make a discrete pack for horse nomads that only 3 people end up buying. I'd be curious to know how successful the EU4 vs CK2 DLC styles were; even while the EU4 ones were getting review bombed, the devs usually posted that each new one was selling better than ever. I guess we'll see what they end up doing with Imperator.
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May 24, 2019 01:55
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Koramei posted:I think people way overstated how "necessary" some of those DLCs were; Common Sense was sort of necessary if you wanted to play (optimally) outside of Europe, and Art of War made things a lot easier, but I don't really agree with the "you just need to have Army Professionalism" or whatever like so many of those lists went on about. It was really just one or two things you should probably buy in the end. I don't think we even need to wait for Imperator's inevitable dlc Stellaris and HoI4 have given us a decent idea of what to expect. Largely what that means is that there will be a major addition to the game that is included in a free patch while the dlc itself will cover a bunch of extra bells and whistles for that system as well as some unique mechanics that aren't integral to the core game and/or some countries/government types. Heres two examples: https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Man_the_Guns https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/MegaCorp As long as PDX sticks with this model rather than the EU4 one we'll be fine.
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May 24, 2019 02:09
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AnEdgelord posted:Stellaris and HoI4 have given us a decent idea of what to expect. yeah but that chart someone posted above kind of worries me. hoi4 was pretty good at release. stellaris had a lot of problems but it also had a somewhat large and very vocal playerbase demanding said problems be fixed. whereas this game seems more like people are just walking away from it, and its more niche appeal in the first place. which is too bad because i find the period far more interesting than space or ww2
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May 24, 2019 02:22
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Earwicker posted:yeah but that chart someone posted above kind of worries me. hoi4 was pretty good at release. stellaris had a lot of problems but it also had a somewhat large and very vocal playerbase demanding said problems be fixed. whereas this game seems more like people are just walking away from it, and its more niche appeal in the first place. which is too bad because i find the period far more interesting than space or ww2 I remember reading that Imperator sold better than expected so I'm not sure if people are just walking away from it. I think it partly might be some people waiting on patches, and also the community being split between a bunch of different games, with EU4 and CK2 and whatnot having an entrenched playerbase due to years of investment being put into the game. The Rome setting might be a bit niche as well. I bet the game will be fine in the long run though.
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May 24, 2019 07:41
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Average Bear posted:CK2 has done DLC mostly right. Don't want to play muslims? No need for sword of Islam. Earlier start dates and pagans not appealing? That's wrong but skip the old gods. Don't want to play India like everyone else? Skip rajas. You are mostly right but CK2 is not without sin. They've revamped Casus Belli system by allowing you to sort of spend prestige on an instant unlawful claim... But to get it you need to get China DLC which doesn't even add China to the game. And things like retinue are essential to the game, it's not like removing it from everybody balances it out - republics and some other governments are much better with retinue than with raised troops. And it's included in Byzantium DLC. Same with numerous other mechanics. Plus there's a huge problem with portraits. Maybe it's just me but playing with just two of them (Europeans and everybody else) makes characters indistinguishable and the game is hard to play. Meanwhile in Imperator they made sure to create diverse portraits on day 1. Of course, EU4 is much worse about it. I love EU4 but it makes itself hard to love. Plenty of times existing mechanics and bonuses were removed in a patch and added in an expansion, or a patch adding a thing like Devastation while Prosperity that balances it out is in an expansion. They've eventually added estates and development in, but for years they've made it so that base DLC-less is less and less playable unless you play Western Europe. I don't like Stellaris at all but their DLC policy seems to be much more humane. UI fixes coming in DLCs are an epitomy of bullshit though, as well as small mechanics that balance the initial problems in the game like National Focus and Spouse Regencies turning monarchies from trash tier governments into something on par, if not better than everybody else. Those kinds of paid features are not nice at all and it infuriates me when Paradox laughs about lootboxes in in-game events as if they aren't doing something as bad. ilitarist fucked around with this message at 09:55 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 09:44
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Azuren posted:I'd say it peaked with Rights of Man and went downhill after that. Especially after Mandate of Heaven came out, any time I ever wanted to go back and play EU4 again I rolled back to 1.19. I'd be interested in seeing how the latest DLCs have sold for it, seems like a lot of folks got burnt out and quit buying it. They mentioned in a dev diary that the sales have been going up steadily still. They also mentioned how little sense this made considering recent feedback was abysmal, hence why they're doing the year-long update/QoL thing. E: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/eu4-development-diary-18th-of-december-2018.1137741/ AnoHito fucked around with this message at 23:53 on May 24, 2019 |
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May 24, 2019 23:51
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