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CestMoi posted:the problem with people's recommendations in this thread isn't the overabundance of old white men it's the recommending of younger contemporary american white men who are universally stupid and bad at writing just avoid books by people from or in new york tbh
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May 21, 2019 20:13
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Even Joseph Heller?
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May 23, 2019 01:26
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Averaged out? No great loss.
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May 23, 2019 08:10
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David Markson and William Gaddis could compensate for an army of Bret Easton Ellises and Jonathan Safran Foers.
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May 23, 2019 13:03
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:David Markson and William Gaddis could compensate for an army of Bret Easton Ellises and Jonathan Safran Foers. I've read Everything is Illuminated and I thought 50%+ was good. Maybe I'm judging him harshly because I read it soon after reading 2666 and it seemed so minor compared to that beast of a book. What's the thread consensus on JSF?
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May 23, 2019 17:22
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Are people ITT even recc'ing JSF? I feel like the "contemporary American white men" who get the most actual recommendations have been Saunders and Vann, the former of which I thought was pretty well regarded at least although the great Aquarium wars were hotly debated. Is there anyone else who gets recommended even tho they suck?
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May 23, 2019 17:35
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goons poo poo on Franzen like they do on Foer
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May 23, 2019 17:43
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'invitation to a beheading' is p great so far. 'gnostical torpitude', xD, you're killing me vlad
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May 23, 2019 17:56
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Guy A. Person posted:Is there anyone else who gets recommended even tho they suck? Murakami?
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May 23, 2019 18:01
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Cloks posted:Murakami? this is the one that confuses me most.
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May 23, 2019 18:05
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Reading HD's Trilogy which is some dope poems:quote:Evil was active in the land,
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May 23, 2019 18:48
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Saunders is Good As Hell and i'll personally drive to the home of and fistwith with anyone who says differently Vann I'll leave to mel
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May 23, 2019 20:20
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lincoln in the bardo is legit good
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May 23, 2019 21:16
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Its legit ok.
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May 23, 2019 21:25
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ulvir posted:lincoln in the bardo is legit good Still my favorite from 2017.
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May 23, 2019 21:26
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thehoodie posted:Reading HD's Trilogy which is some dope poems: HD rules my good pal
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May 24, 2019 12:17
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derp posted:this is the one that confuses me most.
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May 24, 2019 19:05
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chernobyl kinsman posted:Saunders is Good As Hell and i'll personally drive to the home of and fistwith with anyone who says differently Come at me bro I haven't read him
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May 24, 2019 19:46
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derp posted:this is the one that confuses me most. he is asian and thus A Foreign Author, but all his cultural references is just 100% American pop culture, which is super accessible, and he is so similar to middle-brow american authors that his novels could literally be set in America or England and not a single thing would change apart from a few place names. he is, I don’t know, Ian MacEwan, but with a foreign-sounding name
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May 24, 2019 23:24
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the only ian mckellan ive ever read is the first hundred-odd pages of atonement and im fine with keeping it that way
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May 25, 2019 02:10
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I read something or other set in Venice, and it was fine all up to the end when suddenly the dude that the protag thought was friendly started to try to rape and kill them that was and will remain my last mcewan book
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May 25, 2019 08:20
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chernobyl kinsman posted:the only ian mcewan ive ever read is the film of atonement and im fine with keeping it that way e: ian mckellan is cool
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May 25, 2019 08:22
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I have spent the past few years almost getting around to checking out Enduring Love, mainly because of its cover.
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May 25, 2019 09:01
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I read an Ian McEwan book in which a very wealthy neurosurgeon learns the working class exist when he is attacked by Cockney-speaking thugs. They later invade his home and he saves his family from certain doom by diagnosing one of them with Lou Gehrig’s disease. I wish I was making this up
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May 25, 2019 13:22
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Are you sure that wasn't an episode of House
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May 25, 2019 20:26
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derp posted:Are you sure that wasn't an episode of House House MD is sad and thus transcends base class, bitch.
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May 25, 2019 23:46
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I've drunkenly pilloried One Hundred Years of Solitude in this thread. I've only had 2/3s of a bottle of wine but I feel it's time for me to not finish Ulysses and question its place. There's a mastery of style more to it than there is a mastery of prose. The prose, changing style with each chapter, is distinct, but it's not individual (almost representative of a genre as thought). It's particular to a change rather than taking meaning from and giving meaning to its difference, its voice. From the change in style in each chapter we're meant to see the uniqueness of the people in the chapters. But the cumulative effect, in all its simplicity, seems to be - Here are people. These are people. People are dull. Hindsight is amazing. A person looking to ascribe meaning to their existence as seen from their position when they're searching for that meaning can take on all manner of individuality. Joyce mostly seems to be recounting the immediate action and reaction (often to thought) of the people. For all I want a rorschach test in novel form rorschach tests were still designed for effect, the effect an examination. A therapeutic touchstone that's discussed. Joyce, in isolation, seems like nothing. - Here are people. These are people. I know they're loving people, you've done a good job on some of them, but in absence of a dialogue they're nothing. Unless you and I give them context they're nothing. It might be a fundamental question of Ulysses. Do these people find context within themselves, with people presented as they are: as themselves. I won't know about these people unless I dedicate myself to Joycean scholasticism. For all its existential questioning (as form rather than as reading) Ulysses doesn't seem to exist as a novel more its a question I've already answered. People have worth simply because. Does Ulysses have worth simply because? Yes. And I don't need to read the rest to find out the minutia of the reasoning.
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May 28, 2019 02:44
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Your objections are a bit vague and hard to understand but I'm still going to respond: It's not a conclusion of ulysses that people are dull And your objection to the prose is like you're advancing from the wrong premise, it's rather that the style reflects place and time and a set of material circumstances more than it does an individual. Joyce's ideas aren't particularly complicated, to be fair, and that might be the source of your frustration, but the notion that the style is the substance is basically uncontroversial. And I mean you know you have to do the work of inference, but that's because it's a difficult book, because everyday life is difficult. You could summarise literally every book with 'it's recounting action and reaction, often to thought, and all it ultimately says is here are some people'. But usually within the framework of plot we have the tools to infer the significance of these people. ulysses doesn't remove that framework but makes it harder to detect and still asks people to read everyday life like I've just described, through surface detail. Joyce is basically trying to resist the usual conception of meaning as residing 'behind' the object at hand, waiting to be uncovered.* So when ulysses talks about the everyday the variety is the point, obvious though it is. And similarly people's selves aren't contained in some formless eternal essence of 'themness' unrelated to the body, but rather within them; so to understand the people of Ulysses looking at their material existence is the way to do it. Read Ithaca if you haven't, the best moment in all 20th c literature is bloom turning on the tap and thinking about water. *that said like a good dante scholar he understands the power of allegory, so people individually manifest something of the collective, the collective the city, the city the nation, the nation the world.
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May 28, 2019 10:16
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Mrenda posted:I've drunkenly pilloried One Hundred Years of Solitude in this thread. I've only had 2/3s of a bottle of wine but I feel it's time for me to not finish Ulysses and question its place. I don't even remotely understand what you're getting at
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May 28, 2019 10:44
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Mrenda posted:People have worth simply because. Does Ulysses have worth simply because? Yes. And I don't need to read the rest to find out the minutia of the reasoning. Deep.
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May 28, 2019 10:50
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I think Eagleton said something about this, like modernism was so successful that eventually Ulysses could be seen as just another story.
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May 28, 2019 10:55
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Mrenda posted:I've drunkenly pilloried One Hundred Years of Solitude in this thread. I've only had 2/3s of a bottle of wine but I feel it's time for me to not finish Ulysses and question its place. it sounds like you managed to read it without actually reading it
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May 28, 2019 10:59
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Mrenda posted:I've drunkenly pilloried One Hundred Years of Solitude in this thread. I've only had 2/3s of a bottle of wine but I feel it's time for me to not finish Ulysses and question its place. It looks to me like you need to drink either more or less alcohol before posting.
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May 28, 2019 12:34
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Mrenda posted:I've drunkenly pilloried One Hundred Years of Solitude in this thread. I've only had 2/3s of a bottle of wine but I feel it's time for me to not finish Ulysses and question its place. 
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May 28, 2019 12:50
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Mrendas post is more interesting and authentic than the combined output of every person insulting him and more posts like his should be encouraged versus mocked imho I disagree with him but he is at least making a genuine effort rather than most of you
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May 28, 2019 14:08
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It's her (well done on yet another proof of your reading abilities) and usually I've found her takes interesting enough but I can't say there's anything to hold onto in there
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May 28, 2019 14:16
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Mrendas post is more interesting and authentic than the combined output of every person insulting him and more posts like his should be encouraged versus mocked imho There's a fine line between drunkposting (bad) and effortposting (good) but yeah Mel has a point here. At least let's not do the single-emoticon replies. mdemone posted:I think Eagleton said something about this, like modernism was so successful that eventually Ulysses could be seen as just another story. Yeah that's probably a valid take. When the Revolution wins it becomes ordinary. Modern audiences can't see the moment that Dorothy enters Oz and everything is technicolor, not like audiences then did.
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May 28, 2019 14:58
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Ras Het posted:It's her (well done on yet another proof of your reading abilities) I rest my case
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May 28, 2019 15:10
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i don't mind the post but it's kinda incoherent and if you swapped out the names i wouldn't have been able to tell you it was about ulysses.
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May 28, 2019 15:18
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Mrendas post is more interesting and authentic than the combined output of every person insulting him and more posts like his should be encouraged versus mocked imho ah yes the labour theory of post value
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May 28, 2019 15:46
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