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Not long ago I went down the rabbithole of the online Beretta community (God only knows why...) and learned more than I care to about the 60 degree V6. The LX9 3500 is a fairly popular swap because everything after it has VVT, which is apparently a lot harder to get running right in the older cars. 3400/3500 hybrid builds are also apparently a thing. As are turbo'd 3500s.
Q_res fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Mar 2, 2019 |
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Mar 2, 2019 00:28
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Q_res posted:Not long ago I went down the rabbithole of the online Beretta community (God only knows why...) and learned more than I care to about the 60 degree V6. The LX9 3500 is a fairly popular swap because everything after it has VVT, which is apparently a lot harder to get running right in the older cars. 3400/3500 hybrid builds are also apparently a thing. As are turbo'd 3500s. My secret shame is that I like Berettas, the look of them, anyway, with the Z26/Indy side skirts and facia. They weren't quite as dismal as a some other cars back then. I also unironically like Escort GTs.
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Mar 2, 2019 01:10
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Darchangel posted:My secret shame is that I like Berettas, the look of them, anyway, with the Z26/Indy side skirts and facia. They weren't quite as dismal as a some other cars back then. I also unironically like Escort GTs. Hell, same. I like the old Escort EXPs too.
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Mar 2, 2019 01:18
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Darchangel posted:Huh. Today I learned something. Something like that. If I recall, there's oddness with the 3600 (or maybe the 3900) that makes it harder to swap than a 3500. Something to do with the sensors or controls. Mostly I'm looking to minimize the welding (I don't have a welder or a space I could use one), I believe the stock exhaust will work with a 3500 if new manifold flanges are welded on. This thread has made me think one of the 60 degree v6's would be much easier than a 3800, for roughly the same power stock (and I'm not looking for much anyway, mostly a way to ditch the lovely mid 80's ECU, vacuum lines and the loving ignition module that keeps dying and leaving me stranded).
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Mar 2, 2019 02:24
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The LX9 is what I have swapped into the wagon. I'm not realizing its full potential, since I'm using non-optimal intake (LA1 manifold and throttle body) and exhaust (stock Century L82) for compatibility and emissions purposes, but an otherwise stock 3.5 is close enough in power to a stock Series 2/3 3.8. The Chevy engine has less down-low, and has to rev a bit higher to make its power up top. Chevy 3.5: 201 hp, 221 ft-lbs Buick 3.8: 200 hp, 230 ft-lbs I definitely recommend an LX9 in place of a Fiero's stock 2.8. You can make it run on the stock wiring and ECU with some effort, but it has been done. Basically, there isn't much that hasn't been done in a Fiero. A quick search of Pennock's Fiero Forum would turn up much more interesting things than a Buick V6 swap. Like... —Ecotec 2.2 —Volkswagen VR6 —Volkswagen ALH —Cadillac 4.9 —longitudinal mount Chrysler 3.5 —longitudinal mount Audi V8 —and even the unicorn Super Duty!
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Mar 2, 2019 05:37
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A turbo Ecotec Fiero would be hilarious. I've seen the Northstar ones before, also cool, with OHC V8 noises. I remember Pontiac's Super Duty Fiero show car. I really wanted that Fiero. I still have the issue of Hot Rod with it in it, I think.   Those custom Centerlines, unf:  edit: almost forgot the headlights: 
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Mar 5, 2019 01:21
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Darchangel posted:I also unironically like Escort GTs. Isn't that a bit like saying "I also unironically like ice cream" or "I also unironically like oral sex"?
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Mar 5, 2019 01:51
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NumbersMatching320 posted:Isn't that a bit like saying "I also unironically like ice cream" or "I also unironically like oral sex"? I lick all three
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Mar 5, 2019 02:02
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Darchangel posted:A turbo Ecotec Fiero would be hilarious. I've seen the Northstar ones before, also cool, with OHC V8 noises. Also a wheelie bar and 4 exhausts? There's no part of this car I don't like
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Mar 5, 2019 15:28
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cakesmith handyman posted:Also a wheelie bar and 4 exhausts? There's no part of this car I don't like Not just four exhausts, four *Supertrapp* exhausts. Individual pipes for each cylinder.
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Mar 5, 2019 21:19
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Hello Internet, welcome to CAR THEORY, the dumbest thread on the forum. Here's how I started the day. With my LeSabre wheels. They're a bit grody, but will be serviceable. Time to fit those fancy center caps I grabbed from ebay!   Yeah, that looks great. Fits perfectly.  Um... not really.  Turns out, they do not fit in the slightest. This is despite the fact that I searched for the same year LeSabre, and made sure the cap and the inside of the wheel where it would mount were the same diameter. I guess 8-1/4" is not 8-1/4". Well, lesson learned. At least they were "only" $10 each. Maybe Hub Cap Annie will buy them from me? Time to move on to the meat and potatoes of the day.  I guess when you buy an engine from LKQ, they REALLY want you to remember where you got it from.  Air tools are loud. Definitely wear hearing protection. I bought these at a NASCAR race, so they should work well enough, yeah?  Draining the transmission for transport.  Pan does not look good.  Yuck.  Wipe off the magnet...   That would explain the seven neutrals. I thought that was only a 4L60E thing though??? If the pan and magnet look like that, what horrors lie within this guy?  Then my brother showed up. He recently picked up this '04 Silverado. 5.3, 2WD, cloth interior, looks like LT package (debadged by a previous owner).  He shall be my courier since I don't have the use of my station wagon at the moment. Kind of silly, that it would be piss easy to transport the wagon's transmission to the rebuilder if the wagon were working. So there are two units in this image. The one on the left, with the blue converter still attached, is the wagon's. The one on the right is a used one I grabbed back in early 2018, from a 1996 Grand Prix. That will be the parts donor, since the GP trans was of unknown provenance. I chose to not believe the owner's pleas of "ran when pulled, only pulled due to engine knocking". The donor shall give up the drive chain and sprockets, so that my overdriven drive will turn into direct drive, for that sweet sweet 3.33 final drive.  Aw, he looks so sad without his dance partner.   I mean yeah, I could buy this stuff, but rather than take the chance of not properly flushing out the cooler, I bitched out and bought a new one. And why not upgrade while I'm at it?  The new one is like twice the height of the old one. Bigger is better, right? Especially in this car, which I beat on mercilessly.   Okay, yeah, I probably will buy that flush in a can, and if it works well enough, I'll install the small guy on the yellow sedan. What could possibly go wrong?
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Mar 25, 2019 04:48
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That's what filters are for, right? 
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Mar 29, 2019 22:41
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Darchangel posted:That's what filters are for, right? The filter was completely saturated with bits. The fluid came out like soup. 
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Mar 30, 2019 03:39
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On the hubcap - that looks exactly like the way the center caps on my dad's '94 Z28 attached. They took a pretty solid smack to seat.
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Apr 1, 2019 15:10
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IOwnCalculus posted:On the hubcap - that looks exactly like the way the center caps on my dad's '94 Z28 attached. They took a pretty solid smack to seat. I'd carefully measure the bits that aren't supposed to flex and make sure they fit, first. Also, flip it over and make sure that the larger diameter fits in the recess, if it's supposed to. It's difficult to tell from the picture due to parallax, etc. Actually, I imagine Ventricle's done all that before declaring non-fitment.
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Apr 1, 2019 17:11
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Carnage time! One half of the transmission oil pump housing:  Other half:  Valve body:  Input shaft, I guess it's called?  That bit is still inside the converter, I would imagine:  Another hard part I forgot what the guy called it:  Draggin' rear end.  The 4T60E weighs somewhere around 170 lbs empty.  Looks like the oil pump broke, among other things, which is why I had nothing either forward or reverse. There was also the expected roasted clutches and accumulator pistons and springs and other things I can't remember the names of. When I break poo poo, I put my entire rear end into it. No half measures. I provided a donor trans as well—the '96 Grand Prix unit—which gave its valve body, drive chain and sprockets (1:1), and probably other hard parts. I need to go back and pick up my converter tomorrow, which will be similar to the one I was running before. Woven clutch (PWM and on-off compatible), 2095 stall. I will also be pouring in some Dexron VI, in a bid to increase longevity.
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Apr 7, 2019 20:48
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Left Ventricle posted:Another hard part I forgot what the guy called it:
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Apr 8, 2019 00:26
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Well that's a turbofucked trans. Impressive.
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Apr 8, 2019 14:34
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Yep, you done fuckered that proper.
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Apr 8, 2019 16:15
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How many redline neutral drops did it take to do that?
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Apr 9, 2019 06:23
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STR posted:How many redline neutral drops did it take to do that? There was progress. Then there was regress. Then there was progress. First off, I  Grody.   Torque converter. (It's in the box  ) It's a BU21W service number, which is a woven clutch and 2095 stall, basically the highest stall you could get stock on a V6 of the era. If I wanted higher, it would have to be specified for, like, a Quad 4, which gets a bit silly (2795 I think).  Hard at work.   While she was doing that, I set myself to  Dexron VI was recommended by the builder, so I bought some of the good stuff.  With the subframe as clean as it was going to get, I blasted it with some water to rinse everything, then blasted it with air to dry it, then blasted it with high heat black so it doesn't rust. Yeah, Las Vegas doesn't have rust, but whatever.  Then I was an ape, and broke something, which killed my motivation for a couple weeks.    Instead of, you know, taking it easy and being patient about lining the engine and transmission up before I bolt them together, I tried to force them together by tightening the bolts. This made quite the noise, I'm sure you can imagine. After consulting with my brother, who is a metal worker, and someone else at the shop who does most of the aluminum work there, I was told to "send it". So I did.  Engine and transmission are now remarried.   That was quitting time, since it's only just the end of April and summer is already creeping back in. In the mean time, I also have to deal with this piece of poo poo leaving me actually broken down on the highway. (yes this image was taken in a parking lot so what big whoop wanna fight about it)  After about 30-40 minutes of driving, it will just stall and not restart for a very long time. I am suspecting it's the crank position sensor shorting out and overheating (is that a thing?), which is a kick in the dick to replace on this car. It's behind the balancer, but that's not really the difficult part (although the 220 ft-lbs of torque on the crank bolt adds to the fun). The sensor has to be a certain distance away from the reluctor, but I don't know what that distance is, and neither does the part. The part comes on a bracket that has adjustment built in to it, and I did not have very good luck on my MIL's old Bonneville several years ago when it went out on it. That era of 3.3 and 3.8 shared that part of the ignition system. Probably going to hire a mobile mechanic to diagnose it while I'm at work, and probably do the job if it is the CKP.
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Apr 28, 2019 21:10
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My truck would pull that poo poo when the crank sensor died. It would run so long as it was warming up with predefined values for fuel trims, etc. As soon as it was fully up to temp, it would lose all spark until it cooled off.
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Apr 28, 2019 23:16
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Could try calling up some mobile welders, can't imagine they'd charge a whole lot to fix that.
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Apr 30, 2019 15:28
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Suburban Dad posted:Could try calling up some mobile welders, can't imagine they'd charge a whole lot to fix that. Its cast AL, which is a bitch to weld. Chances are the weld would fail whenever pressure was put on the joint.. Plus, it's part of a part that's got oil on it, so it'll make welding it doubly-hard.
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Apr 30, 2019 19:54
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JB Weld and multiple disposable vice grips.  Seriously tho, is this one of the transmissions with a bolt-on bell housing, or is it one piece? If it's a bolt on, maybe swap the bell housing part? If not, uh... I'd just drive it until it breaks even more. Not much more you can do, you've already dropped the cash and labor on the swap. No junkyard is gonna take that as a core (some parts stores might, but that would mean buying a reman through them *shudder*).
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May 1, 2019 08:30
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Yeah, that's why I said I'm going to send it. It's a single casting. No sense in spending more money on rebuilding another case.
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May 1, 2019 16:29
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Time to stop stalling and just do the drat thing. Summer won't wait. Wife is unimpressed by the power plant.  It's unimpressive, honestly.  Bolted the Grand Am air conditioning compressor finally. I am not doing another summer without AC. It's balls.  However, after getting the drivetrain back in the engine bay, I found that the new location of the refrigerant lines entering the compressor interferes with the oil filter. I will need to go to the yard and look at a 3.1L Grand Am to see what the setup is. Probably just a remote filter. Dumping this lump back in was the usual touch and go of lower it, check interference of wiring/hoses/brake booster, lower, check, etc. until I got it lined up with the trans mounts.  The spousal unit was gracious enough to perform the unenviable task of bolting down the rear transmission mount. On this car, it's right up against the firewall, bracketed by the trans case and steering rack. It's hell. I despise it. I love her for doing it while I hosed with other things. This is her after crawling back out from under the car.  Here it is back in its home, bolted to the subframe mounts.  So I went hog wild and bolted a bunch of poo poo back on.  But I'm going to have to take it all back apart because I didn't put the power steering pump on.   The pump has to go on before the fuel rail, because it interferes with installation.  Things I still need to do before it's driveable, in no particular order: —Oil in the engine and transmission —Axles in the transmission —Struts —Tune the computer for the new final drive —Slap new wheels and tires on —Take new wheels and tires back off and put on lovely wheels and tires to take it to an alignment shop —Alignment —Renew registration —Burnouts
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May 13, 2019 02:12
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That's dedication right there. Get that woman a manicure, or a spa day or something! Also - probably should have degreased all that stuff while it was out. Would have been a trifle less grody. This is why all my projects take 3 times a long as they should - I can't replace dirty parts...
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May 13, 2019 21:28
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Today's adventure in the junkyard found me checking out this otherwise pedestrian Grand Am. Oh 'ello, wots all this then?  Oh my.  Tight quarters for the oxygen sensor. Probably required a little persuasion on the floor there.  Two hours later...    Guess who has two thumbs and just loving scored some Pace Setter V6 headers for $55? 
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May 27, 2019 21:23
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Nice score! Pacesetter rules, they make headers for everything. Please make a sound video when you get them on.
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May 27, 2019 23:29
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Great find. Is that a... paved junkyard???
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May 28, 2019 01:08
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Sgt Fox posted:Is that a... paved junkyard???
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May 28, 2019 01:21
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I would never have guessed you could buy Pacesetter headers for an FWD-fitment Chevy V6.
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May 28, 2019 04:00
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I.... didn't expect them for a Cheturn Iobalt either. https://pacesetterexhaust.com/products/05-06-chevy-cobalt-saturn-ion-headers
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May 28, 2019 05:25
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Sgt Fox posted:Great find. Is that a... paved junkyard??? Part of my favorite wrecking yard here (Awesome Auto Salvage, Grand Prairie, TX) is paved. Mostly under the imports and Chevy and Ford passenger cars. Trucks and vans, and other brands, are still out in the dirt.
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May 29, 2019 16:43
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Hi guys. I had to swap the intake manifold AGAIN because I blew out one of the EGR bolt holes AGAIN. It was sucking air in and the engine refused to start at first, then idled at 2500, then idled between 600 and 1000 like total dog poo poo. Once that was sorted... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORwB_qir0AM As I said in the video, the downpipe was not bolted to the rear manifold. I've done that a couple times now, and it sucks majorly on your back with a swivel, threading the needle between the steering rack and the firewall. So I took it to my nearest reputable mechanic shop and paid them to do it, along with an alignment. They also repaired the alternator charge wire, which was a giant piece of poo poo for a long time.  The first daylight George has seen in six months. I also slapped those LeSabre/Reatta wheels on. Uniroyal Tiger Paws in 215-60/15. No center caps for now, since they're surprisingly difficult to find.  And since I had the transmission regeared, out came the trusty old laptop to change the tune. Just need to set the final drive multiplier to 1 in HP Tuners. Watch this space for burnouts and a new time slip. 3.33 FINAL DRIVE IMPRESSIONS I've only been driving for a few days now, and it's been long enough that I don't really remember how the car behaved before, but it seem a bit more sprightly now with the 3.33 final, as opposed to the 2.97 it had before. It's definitely easier to spin the tires from a stop, and passing on the highway requires less effort. I haven't refueled yet, but it appears as though fuel economy will be at least the same as before, which seems odd to me. "Legs" are shorter, naturally, but it's still easy to get up to 110 or so and not be out of RPM in third. I don't have a tach, but a calculator says it's about 4900 rpm, so about 900 more left in it. Also, turns out that the 2095 stall converter stalls at almost 2800 in this car.
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Jun 8, 2019 05:12
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It wouldn't surprise me if you're blowing the tires off just because they are Tiger Paws.
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Jun 8, 2019 05:26
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl16BVTcpik
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Jun 9, 2019 22:10
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🤣 You need crappier tires!
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Jun 9, 2019 22:24
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Congrats on getting the Century up and running again!
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Jun 10, 2019 00:48
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