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Maxwell Lord posted:It's pretty much objectively a good idea (they're even both cosmic-scale heroes, so shenanigans in outer space!) No it isn't, you know they sooner or later have to fridge one of the two and chances are 9:1 it's Valkyrie.
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May 28, 2019 13:17
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Decius posted:No it isn't, you know they sooner or later have to fridge one of the two and chances are 9:1 it's Valkyrie. The "bury your gays" trope needs to die.
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May 28, 2019 14:13
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I'm kinda hoping Marvel does a Storm or Rogue movie soon, just to see if these gaters try to claim they're mary sue type characters. Plus, if Captain Marvel ever does retire, they have an easy out.
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May 28, 2019 15:05
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I just saw Captain Marvel. meh I can't believe the most mediocre movie ever was what ComicsGate hitched their wagons to so they can heed us of 'Toxic Femininity!!!'
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May 28, 2019 19:44
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BoosterDuck posted:I just saw Captain Marvel. I mean a previous big one was Ghostbusters, so yeah.
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May 28, 2019 20:27
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BoosterDuck posted:I just saw Captain Marvel. "GOT TO FIGHT TEH CULTURE WAR(TM)! FOR THE GLORY OF KEKSTAIN AND BANE OF (((SOROS)))!" God, even typing that pissed me off.
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May 28, 2019 20:30
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Archyduchess posted:Not that I know, but I think the kind of strident, self-indulgently juvenile thing he does in stuff like Angry Youth Comix is sort of a dead end for saying anything meaningful or interesting. It's an exercise in getting away with stuff that I think is a variation of the same impulse behind the more avowedly "apolitical" of the young men drawn to the Proud Boys, a sort of similar decision or desire to react to anomie by just being a prick to people in a worse position than yourself. Well, I think that makes sense. Now I want to try and find the posts about him they did on the Hooded Utilitarian - I recall there were some fairly lengthy debates in the comments regarding the merits of the shock jock comixxx style.
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May 28, 2019 23:29
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BoosterDuck posted:I just saw Captain Marvel. ComicsGate doesn't actually care about the content, just what they think the content is. I saw someone complaining that the new Terminator was 'too woke' because Sarah Conner was in it.
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May 28, 2019 23:49
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ImpAtom posted:ComicsGate doesn't actually care about the content, just what they think the content is. "I miss when things weren't so political. Like Star Wars! The movie series where a liberal democracy that forgot its people due to the influence of the ultra rich was taken out from within by a fascist populist and turned into a white supremacist empire, only to be thwarted by a multicultural rebel alliance led by women."
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May 28, 2019 23:56
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Remember how mad they got when Leia used Force powers in The Last Jedi? Imagine what the reaction would've been if the internet had been around in '83 when her being Luke's sister was revealed.
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May 29, 2019 00:07
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ImpAtom posted:ComicsGate doesn't actually care about the content, just what they think the content is. And the real intent of this poo poo is to put women/PoC/LGBTQ+/immigrants/whoever isn’t a straight white cis man “in their place,” which to a whatever-gater is six feet under. Oh, they never say it in those terms, and they may not even think it’s about getting other folks dead, but ridiculous takes like “no woman” cuts of Endgame or refusing to air gay rat marriage eventually draw a straight line to Nazis.
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May 29, 2019 00:11
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Alien/Aliens is always wanna of those films I wonder about when I think "how would this be received if it is was released now".
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May 29, 2019 00:17
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Davros1 posted:Remember how mad they got when Leia used Force powers in The Last Jedi? Imagine what the reaction would've been if the internet had been around in '83 when her being Luke's sister was revealed. If the pornhub stats are any indication they would've loved that
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May 29, 2019 00:18
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Archyduchess posted:Not that I know, but I think the kind of strident, self-indulgently juvenile thing he does in stuff like Angry Youth Comix is sort of a dead end for saying anything meaningful or interesting. It's an exercise in getting away with stuff that I think is a variation of the same impulse behind the more avowedly "apolitical" of the young men drawn to the Proud Boys, a sort of similar decision or desire to react to anomie by just being a prick to people in a worse position than yourself. The closest I've ever seen him talk about personal philosophy/politics is sort of brushing it off in various interviews along the lines of "I guess I'm pretty liberal, though I'm also pretty conservative about certain things, I don't know, it's not that important, I don't want to talk about it" which is not an inherently awful statement but I always personally get alarm bells when the person is hesitant to talk about what those conservative beliefs are. I always assume it's not something like "I feel like the Department of the Interior has overreached its power in managing invasive species" or something kind of wrong but innocuous. Davros1 posted:Remember how mad they got when Leia used Force powers in The Last Jedi? Imagine what the reaction would've been if the internet had been around in '83 when her being Luke's sister was revealed. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 00:27 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 00:24
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Edge & Christian posted:Not there yet in any of my re-reads, but at least one subset of fans were real mad/annoyed at how Star Wars got ruined with the whole "Luke is Vader's kid" reveal, ruined by the cartoony-rear end Muppet Yoda making it a corny movie for kids you can't take seriously, and in at least one case, the blatant military absurdity of AT-ATs, because the low center of gravity in an armored vehicle is 90% of their tactical utility, even a child knows that. Oh Jesus, I never actually considered that people would have been angry at Yoda but it makes perfect sense.
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May 29, 2019 00:42
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Edge & Christian posted:I had no idea Johnny Ryan was almost 50. Yeah perhaps this is an unfair presumption on my part but I always read those sorts of dodges as basically either a coded or merely oblivious gesturing towards that sort of dopey "nobody can tell me what to do" style of libertarianism. Fantagraphics obviously puts out a ton of great stuff but they also publish some really tedious exercises in that kind of shock comics-- I'm thinking of the aforementioned Trucker Fags in Denial or that dumb Jason Karns poo poo. I don't know-- there are comics that lean on that sort of extreme spectacle and wallowing in nastiness that I really like (Simon Hanselmann, Roberta Gregory) but a lot of it just feels like a flexing of white male invincibility.
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May 29, 2019 01:16
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Edge & Christian posted:Not there yet in any of my re-reads, but at least one subset of fans were real mad/annoyed at how Star Wars got ruined with the whole "Luke is Vader's kid" reveal, ruined by the cartoony-rear end Muppet Yoda making it a corny movie for kids you can't take seriously, and in at least one case, the blatant military absurdity of AT-ATs, because the low center of gravity in an armored vehicle is 90% of their tactical utility, even a child knows that. reads of what? is there some sort of documentary novel on early star wars fandom
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May 29, 2019 01:42
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Archyduchess posted:I don't know-- there are comics that lean on that sort of extreme spectacle and wallowing in nastiness that I really like (Simon Hanselmann, Roberta Gregory) but a lot of it just feels like a flexing of white male invincibility. Mister Olympus posted:reads of what? is there some sort of documentary novel on early star wars fandom
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May 29, 2019 01:53
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Edge & Christian posted:Oh, I've just been collecting/reading old fanzines and the like, and most of what I've picked up and been reading is either circa like 1975-1980 or 1991-1995, so I hit a vein of Star Wars/Empire Strikes Back/Superman The Movie hot takes, but not anything about Return of the Jedi yet. Off topic, but if you find any interesting Trek stuff in said reads, do share somehow, I've been looking into the modern state of that fandom lately for a project and it's a lot more divided than I realized, especially on the nature of "we're getting more content" versus "it's possibly ending/erasing entire lines of canon from existence". And also most of them hate Peter David.
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May 29, 2019 02:18
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Madkal posted:Alien/Aliens is always wanna of those films I wonder about when I think "how would this be received if it is was released now". After Terminator 1 and Aliens, poor Michael Biehn would've been a poster boy for those idiots.
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May 29, 2019 02:40
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END ME SCOOB posted:Off topic, but if you find any interesting Trek stuff in said reads, do share somehow, I've been looking into the modern state of that fandom lately for a project and it's a lot more divided than I realized, especially on the nature of "we're getting more content" versus "it's possibly ending/erasing entire lines of canon from existence". Back in high school, for some reason our library had a bunch of books that collected articles from Star Trek zines. I don't remember much, but I do remember one book was full of complaints about Wrath of Khan. They loving hated it. I think they were the Best of Trek series, but it's been a while. Maybe worth a look, if you haven't already checked them out?
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May 29, 2019 03:00
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END ME SCOOB posted:Off topic, but if you find any interesting Trek stuff in said reads, do share somehow, I've been looking into the modern state of that fandom lately for a project and it's a lot more divided than I realized, especially on the nature of "we're getting more content" versus "it's possibly ending/erasing entire lines of canon from existence". The funny thing is the actual new Trek that's out doesn't erase anything. the end of the second season kind of puts all the toys back in the box while giving the show a place to grow that kind of can't upset canon. Of course, its cast is headed by a black woman, and queer, non-white, and female actors make up a lot of the main cast. So the hate is coming from exactly the places you'd expect it to. It's doubly stupid for me to see regressives try to protect Star Trek, when the show had always been out in front of where the rest of the culture is. I get the tokenism in TOS is not great now, but it was a giant leap forward from the nothing that was there before. And of course there's both the luxury space communism (really space social democracy) thing and the super good portrayals of a black family by today's standards in DS9. It's probably the worst fit for a right-wing sci-fi fan of any of the major shows from over the years. EDIT: It wouldn't surprise me if David's stuff in Trek aged poorly, which makes it less popular with the fanbase. I re-read his X-Factor along with the Jay & Miles podcast, I agree with Jay's assessment that it's not as great in retrospect. I also re-read his 80s/90s Hulk stuff as part of an aborted attempt at a podcast, and there's some mind-bogglingly tone deaf and awful stuff in those issues. rkajdi fucked around with this message at 03:47 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 03:44
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rkajdi posted:The funny thing is the actual new Trek that's out doesn't erase anything. the end of the second season kind of puts all the toys back in the box while giving the show a place to grow that kind of can't upset canon. Of course, its cast is headed by a black woman, and queer, non-white, and female actors make up a lot of the main cast. So the hate is coming from exactly the places you'd expect it to. What? No, no, I mean that the old-universe fan base has basically been subsisting on novels since Voyager ended, and now the Picard show has this contingent anxious because there's this whole new canon out there and for the first time post-Nemesis, they're in a place where all the cast and stories they've grown comfortable with could be destroyed in like, two lines if the new show decides that, real example, Picard stayed a bachelor forever after Starfleet. In the nearly 20 years since that, they wrote the dude finally deciding after one scrape too many that yeah, he could be a good father, he has a kid, the kid grows up, there are stories involving new crews who got their own time to shine, so on. It was a thing I never expected because I knew there was the steady stream of books here and there, but I wasn't reading it, so there was nuance I missed. I guess they started hiring people to write neo-Trek novels and then never released them, so as a result, all that's ever been in this space is the familiar cast, and then when Discovery started up, it started getting some of the X novels per year slots, and it pushed DS9/Voyager out of the spotlight and there's doubt as to whether anything not TNG/DIS will get attention with Picard coming... Like I said. A rabbit hole I didn't expect to find when I just went to dig up a little info for a piece I was writing. catlord posted:Back in high school, for some reason our library had a bunch of books that collected articles from Star Trek zines. I don't remember much, but I do remember one book was full of complaints about Wrath of Khan. They loving hated it. I think they were the Best of Trek series, but it's been a while. Maybe worth a look, if you haven't already checked them out? This is handy as hell and I'll do that, thanks. I'm pretty early in looking at this, I only found most of this stuff over the long weekend.
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May 29, 2019 04:12
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END ME SCOOB posted:What? No, no, I mean that the old-universe fan base has basically been subsisting on novels since Voyager ended, and now the Picard show has this contingent anxious because there's this whole new canon out there and for the first time post-Nemesis, they're in a place where all the cast and stories they've grown comfortable with could be destroyed in like, two lines if the new show decides that, real example, Picard stayed a bachelor forever after Starfleet. In the nearly 20 years since that, they wrote the dude finally deciding after one scrape too many that yeah, he could be a good father, he has a kid, the kid grows up, there are stories involving new crews who got their own time to shine, so on. Oh OK, you're talking more like the EU Star Wars fans who got mad that the new movies invalidated a bunch of really bad house novels. Or the DC fans who get mad whenever the next crisis means a bunch of stories don't "count" anymore. That is legit a part of the ST fandom I've never really been into, and never seen anywhere. Literally all the fan hate I've seen against Disco has been of the anti-SJW type, so I assumed that was what you were talking about.
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May 29, 2019 04:39
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rkajdi posted:Oh OK, you're talking more like the EU Star Wars fans who got mad that the new movies invalidated a bunch of really bad house novels. Or the DC fans who get mad whenever the next crisis means a bunch of stories don't "count" anymore. That is legit a part of the ST fandom I've never really been into, and never seen anywhere. Literally all the fan hate I've seen against Disco has been of the anti-SJW type, so I assumed that was what you were talking about. To me it's not a problem that old stories don't 'count' -- there are hundreds of in-continuity stories that I would trade for a single issue of all sorts of out-of-continuity, retconned, Elseworlds, stories in comics, television, and film. It's that part of the implicit appeal of a sprawling shared universe that everything fits together in a big palimpsest puzzle. If you're doing a clean reboot I have very reservations about just doing whatever with characters' backstories, identities, relationships, etc. -- though there comes a point in changing so many details that it becomes an open question why they're using Character A at all if they wanted to use someone so dissimilar to them. Where DC has tried and fallen down repeatedly is just sort of going "Everything counts... unless it doesn't! We'll get back to you!" or "Nothing counts, it's all new... unless we decide it counts!" If they decide to do an all-new, all-different complete reboot of Star Wars, I wouldn't be opposed to it. If in the new movie they had a long scene talking about how Luke blew up the Death Star, and watched a dude get his hand cut off in a bar in Mos Eisley, and remembers how bad Chewbacca stunk in the trash compactor, and also he's never met Princess Leia until right this moment, ten years after Luke killed his dad Boba Fett on the second Death Star, also Han Solo just straight up never existed in this movie, I would have a lot of questions and be annoyed at their storytelling decisions. Which is kind of what DC's done about five times now.
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May 29, 2019 04:56
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Edge & Christian posted:This may be a blindspot for me because of my particular interests/fandom, but I feel like everything DC has done/is doing with their continuity is kind of apples and oranges compared to Star Wars/Star Trek fans talking about Extended Universes (or even, to a degree anyone upset about the many and sundry reboots of whatever property out there). It's still nerds angry that their old stories don't count anymore. Neither the nuking of the EU or the continuity changes get rid of your old stories, you're just not going to get something new. And there are pretty huge swaths of SW canon that got killed when they ended the EU. So if you're super into the U'Jong'Bong (or whatever the name of that stupid force immune race was) or Grey Jedi or whatever it's gone. DC never got rid of their big cornerstones (i.e. the equivalent to Han Solo or the main characters) or makes meaningful changes to them. In broad strokes, Superman is the guy who lost a billion people and could get over it while Batman lost just two people and never could get over it. Wonder Woman floats somewhere out there because DC doesn't want to write porn comics, so I guess she gets some classical era basis. Changing if Clark Kent was Superboy or not, or if Batman killed Joe Chill doesn't really effect the main stories of these characters. And really once you step down from the big names, you're getting into "Greedo shot first" equivalents. I guess I just give way less of a poo poo about continuity anymore, but I'd much rather just read good comics than worry how stuff from the past fits into the new regime that gets set up every half decade or so with DC. The whole Grant Morrison batmobile quote really hit me hard, and showed that none of the stuff superfans of any stripe gripe about really matters at all. Just get good stories and try not to tell offensive or disgusting stuff like Killing Joke or Identity Crisis. The latter seems pretty drat hard to do considering how bad both of the big two have been about it.
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May 29, 2019 05:24
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https://twitter.com/tonygoldmark/status/1133403890269925376?s=19
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May 29, 2019 07:45
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Can't believe Carol straight up murdered an innocent man. hosed up.
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May 29, 2019 08:08
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Viridiant posted:Can't believe Carol straight up murdered an innocent man. hosed up. It's so loving obviously a Terminator reference, and most often he's playing the good guy. Also in a hilarious coincidence I just saw a comment on the new Terminator movie bitching about SJWs ruining the franchise because it's got Linda loving Hamilton in it.
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May 29, 2019 08:20
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These people would hate so much of nerd media if things that happened years ago happened today. Princess Leia would definitely annoy the poo poo out of them. How dare that bitch talk to Han and Luke like that when they're just trying to rescue her! Samus Aran's a girl?! Wow way to shove the feminist agenda in our faces, Nintendo. Can't believe SJWs are ruining the videogame industry so badly. The entirety of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I don't know what they wouldn't like about Ripley but she's a woman in a starring role who's strong and outspoken so I'm sure they'd focus in on some arbitrary detail.
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May 29, 2019 08:38
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Skwirl posted:It's so loving obviously a Terminator reference, and most often he's playing the good guy. Also in a hilarious coincidence I just saw a comment on the new Terminator movie bitching about SJWs ruining the franchise because it's got Linda loving Hamilton in it. There was some nitwit whining about it on Reddit in the trailer thread Schwarzenegger posted; Schwarzenegger wasn't impressed and basically asked him if he'd seen the first two movies.
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May 29, 2019 11:19
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Viridiant posted:I don't know what they wouldn't like about Ripley but she's a woman in a starring role who's strong and outspoken so I'm sure they'd focus in on some arbitrary detail. Ripley was 'proof' that women didn't need Captain Marvel or any female-fronted films because they'd had their turn already. (And later so was Wonder Woman and Alita.)
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May 29, 2019 12:12
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I really, really don't understand why chuds have latched onto Wonder Woman and Alita of all things.
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May 29, 2019 13:00
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Simple contrarianism.
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May 29, 2019 13:27
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Endless Mike posted:I really, really don't understand why chuds have latched onto Wonder Woman and Alita of all things. I mean, Wonder Woman is in a hyper sexualized outfit and was an explicit fetish character from day one. Alita is anime-based, and chuds love anime because of the hyper-subservient sexuality and naked racism that shows up in a lot of series.
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May 29, 2019 13:33
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess CGers aren't actually aware of Wonder Woman's fetish character origins. Even if they are, she certainly isn't depicted that way in the movie. (She does retain the sexualized costume, though, so I guess there's that.)
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May 29, 2019 14:18
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There was a LOT of complaining about the adding of the skirt to the suit.
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May 29, 2019 14:26
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Rhyno posted:There was a LOT of complaining about the adding of the skirt to the suit. Every time they try and change her suit they get people coming out of the woodwork to make a stink. I remember there was also an outcry when somebody tried to give Supergirl bike shorts under her skirt.
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May 29, 2019 14:27
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Imagine someone growing up loving these adventures that have very simple, easily understandable life lessons. Now imagine that person growing up and, instead of taking those lessons to heart, stewing in their own isolated bitterness to not just ignore it as "kids stuff," but to actively and publically hate these stores because they need some warped form of attention. The whole "gate," almost stems from a kind of self-loathing.
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May 29, 2019 14:35
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You have to understand, the people at the center of these things, complaining the loudest, making dozens of youtube videos... they don't actually care about any of this. They're just using media people are emotionally attached to as a wedge to sneak anti-diversity, anti-woman ideas. If you just come out and say "Women have too much power and I want to return to a strict patriarchy where they're disenfranchised", people will tell you to gently caress off. But if you tell them that big studios are ruining superheroes because feminists are making them add bad superheroes, then they will listen. Then you just pile up enough bad faith arguments where it just so happens that all positive portrayals of women in media are part of a vast conspiracy and "pandering" and "SJW bullshit", and whoop, you've got viewers advocating your anti-woman agenda for you, and they don't even know they're doing it.
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