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gradenko_2000 posted:big brain: loving lol at Sankara just being "Alright"
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May 29, 2019 18:28
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https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2012-featured-story-archive/CleanedUOSSSimpleSabotage_sm.pdf page three, personal motives, paragraph (a)
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May 29, 2019 19:34
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capitalists: planned economies cause famines! also capitalists: https://twitter.com/BuildSoil/status/1133576822422102017
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May 29, 2019 21:04
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also capitalists https://www.agweb.com/article/how-long-can-this-corn-rally-last/
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May 29, 2019 21:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:big brain: loving lol at Sankara just being "Alright" this was my first reaction also who is the guy on the right in the top tier
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May 29, 2019 22:17
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Mr. Lobe posted:this was my first reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errico_Malatesta
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May 29, 2019 22:39
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state capitalism > worker coops
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May 29, 2019 22:42
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:state capitalism > worker coops worker o'cops
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May 29, 2019 23:12
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state capitalism is just one big worker coop
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May 29, 2019 23:22
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in worker's coops, I would be forced to interact and make decisions with other people, which sounds like a nightmare
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May 29, 2019 23:25
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this is now the thomas sankara appreciation station    choo choo motherfuckers
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May 29, 2019 23:25
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Lightning Knight posted:this is now the thomas sankara appreciation station Hell yeah quote:His domestic policies were focused on preventing famine with agrarian self-sufficiency and land reform, prioritising education with a nationwide literacy campaign and promoting public health by vaccinating 2,500,000 children against meningitis, yellow fever and measles.
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May 29, 2019 23:29
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i say swears online posted:also capitalists quote:"So what that means is the price of corn is going to have to go higher to slow down and ration demand," says McCormick. "It's just a matter how fast it'll go." Rationing!? IN A FREE MARKET!? 
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May 29, 2019 23:33
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Captain Billy Pissboy posted:Hell yeah it owns Thomas sankara is communist bae
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May 29, 2019 23:36
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https://twitter.com/granturismofort/status/1133407387178504192?s=19
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May 29, 2019 23:50
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Problematic Stalin Meme
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May 29, 2019 23:55
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Cancelled Josef Stalin
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May 29, 2019 23:55
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Stalin Wife Problematic
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May 29, 2019 23:55
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I'll know I'm a real leftist when I recognize more than a couple of these people and no knowing the names won't help
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May 29, 2019 23:57
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https://twitter.com/CIAGoFundMe/status/1133867503497744385?s=19
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May 30, 2019 00:05
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lol
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May 30, 2019 00:45
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https://twitter.com/BlackSocialists/status/1131203262315663360
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May 30, 2019 05:58
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Karl Barks posted:in worker's coops, I would be forced to interact and make decisions with other people, which sounds like a nightmare people shocked at the high percentage of folks who just vest their say into a labor representative so that they don't have to read and vote on a bunch of dumb poo poo "hell yeah, we own it all now bitches! who wants to represent me at meetings so i can tune out of most of this bullshit and get more gaming time in?"
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May 30, 2019 06:03
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https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1133435642325680130
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May 30, 2019 06:29
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it's loving infuriating that we have to have these century-old arguments over and over lmao The Question of Co-Operative Societies at the International Socialist Congress in Copenhagen quote:Together with Guesde we moved two (main) amendments: firstly, to replace the words “(the co-operative societies) help the workers to prepare the democratisation and socialisation of production and distribution” by the words: “(the co-operative societies) help to a certain extent to prepare the functioning of production and distribution after the expropriation of the capitalist class.” This amendment, which stylistically is not very happily formulated, does not mean that the co-operative societies cannot help the workers at present, but that the future mode of production and distribution, which is being prepared now by the co-operative societies, can begin to function only after the expropriation of the capitalists. The second amendment concerned the point which speaks of the relation of co-operative societies to the Party. We proposed either to add the words “which (i. e., aid to the workers’ struggle) is in any case desirable from the standpoint of socialism”, or to replace the whole of this point by another expressly recommending socialists in the co-operative societies to advocate and insist upon direct support for the class struggle of the proletariat.
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May 30, 2019 07:53
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R. Guyovich posted:it's loving infuriating that we have to have these century-old arguments over and over lmao yep https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/ch07.htm quote:The workers forming a co-operative in the field of production are thus faced with the contradictory necessity of governing themselves with the utmost absolutism. They are obliged to take toward themselves the role of capitalist entrepreneur – a contradiction that accounts for the usual failure of production co-operatives which either become pure capitalist enterprises or, if the workers’ interests continue to predominate, end by dissolving. they're just huffing richard wolffs farts in between disparaging actual communists and tweeting at AOC asking for donations
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May 30, 2019 08:27
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Worker cooperatives have an incentive to revert back to rentier capitalism vs read the OP
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May 30, 2019 09:30
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Top City Homo posted:Worker cooperatives have an incentive to revert back to rentier capitalism vs read the OP I was listening to David Harvey's podcast the other day and I found out that "rentier" is supposed to rhyme with "frontier"
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May 30, 2019 09:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:I was listening to David Harvey's podcast the other day and I found out that "rentier" is supposed to rhyme with "frontier" what did you think it was, rent-ee-er? rent-ee-ay?
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May 30, 2019 11:59
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Top City Homo posted:Worker cooperatives have an incentive to revert back to rentier capitalism vs read the OP only if you don’t extirpate the capitalist ideology from the workers minds
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May 30, 2019 12:10
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Mr. Lobe posted:what did you think it was, rent-ee-er? yup! cuz like, it's "rent", and then you just add "-ier" to it
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May 30, 2019 12:35
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:russian communists are doing the youtube thing better i think this is good poo poo
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May 30, 2019 13:01
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state capitalism has the same incentive to revert to rentier capitalism imo not that this really matters all that much, any sane socialist economy is going to be a mish mash of coops for smaller firms and labor-union/state controlled enterprises Karl Barks fucked around with this message at 13:43 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 13:40
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Flowers For Algeria posted:only if you don’t extirpate the capitalist ideology from the workers minds you can't "extirpate the capitalist ideology" under market conditions. Karl Barks posted:state capitalism has the same incentive to revert to rentier capitalism imo There actually isn't any incentive for a state capitalist system to extract rents, because it's already accruing all surplus value from labor. Rent only makes sense because you're extracting it from people who don't work for yourself. That's why North Korea doesn't have income or "property" taxes. Rents are cost redundancies that make the system more inefficient. Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 15:32 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 15:28
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https://twitter.com/Vinncent/status/1134083189784403968?s=19
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May 30, 2019 15:39
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He's been in exile in the Netherlands for decades, so I suppose he's not got much else to do
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May 30, 2019 15:42
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Postoyevsky posted:yep The reason Luxembourg gives for coops being untenable in a market filled with capitalists is that the workers would have to work themselves for intolerably hard the same way capitalist exploiters do. But that's not as relevant in the modern day when we have overtime laws and OSHA and stuff
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May 30, 2019 16:02
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Jewel Repetition posted:The reason Luxembourg gives for coops being untenable in a market filled with capitalists is that the workers would have to work themselves for intolerably hard the same way capitalist exploiters do. But that's not as relevant in the modern day when we have overtime laws and OSHA and stuff It's still relevant because capitalists break labor regulations all the time. That doesn't mean that coops are ipso facto "untenable," but actually existing coops still have to accumulate surplus value to survive under market conditions. Co-op workers basically end up having to exploit themselves or others anyway, as is the case where Mondragon employs seasonal labor that doesn't have any stake in the company. I'd still say there's an inherent value in owning your own workplace collectively, but it's not the panacea that Black Socialists implies it is.
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May 30, 2019 16:10
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if OSHA and overtime laws are so great, why have socialism at all?
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May 30, 2019 16:17
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's still relevant because capitalists break labor regulations all the time. That doesn't mean that coops are ipso facto "untenable," but actually existing coops still have to accumulate surplus value to survive under market conditions. Co-op workers basically end up having to exploit themselves or others anyway, as is the case where Mondragon employs seasonal labor that doesn't have any stake in the company. I think this is true of any "socialist-ish" mode of production that exists inside a capitalist framework. a co-op is just a governance model/structure, it's in some ways ambivalent to the superstructure around it. which is to say, co-ops alone are not socialism in the same way that SOEs are not socialism
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May 30, 2019 16:20
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