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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, help me make sure I've got my math right here Indom got nerfed to 25 fatigue. I also think that it's safest to assume that you will be completely fatigued out (except your 15 fatigue/turn) when you come to your recover+adrenaline turn. The basic formula should be something like (x-15)/2+20-15+y=x, where x is max fatigue and y is however much your indom/swing/split fatigue cost is. Simplified to either: x=2y-5 OR y=(x+5)/2 That means that if you want to be able to split+indom with weapon mastery you need to be able to spend 48 fatigue on your off turn. That means having at least 91 max fatigue
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May 29, 2019 23:05
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Osci posted:Indom got nerfed to 25 fatigue. I also think that it's safest to assume that you will be completely fatigued out (except your 15 fatigue/turn) when you come to your recover+adrenaline turn. Yikes, ok, yeah, that's not practicable unless you're talking superbro wildmen or farmers with good rolls and multiple stars in fatigue.
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May 29, 2019 23:10
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, that's the rub. Maybe drop Reach Advantage? I've never been quite as impressed with it as I should be. Most rounds you're only talking 5 or 10 points of Mdef. I might try that. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Here's what I'm thinking for a cleaver whip torturer: Osci posted:Indom got nerfed to 25 fatigue. I also think that it's safest to assume that you will be completely fatigued out (except your 15 fatigue/turn) when you come to your recover+adrenaline turn. TheBeardyCleaver fucked around with this message at 23:34 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 23:30
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Having dedicated rescue bro's is how i'm getting through the noble war without losing people. So long as you can bust your way through and keep your rescue near your fighters your fine, especially if you give them footwork as well to get them out of the way for your allies to come in and tank a bit.
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May 29, 2019 23:49
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ffuck the nobles inbred motherfuckers with dozens of heavily armoured dudes who never stop chasing you
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May 30, 2019 00:00
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What I'm hearing is that it sounds like Indomitable + Adrenaline + Recover = very good for your tanks for forever-tanking the rough poo poo Indomitable + Adrenaline + Recover + Any other actions at all == not possible unless you have a godlike wildman or someone with absurd fatigue and iron lungs You can't pop Adrenaline *before* recover, right? Have to go other order?
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May 30, 2019 00:10
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dogstile posted:Having dedicated rescue bro's is how i'm getting through the noble war without losing people. So long as you can bust your way through and keep your rescue near your fighters your fine, especially if you give them footwork as well to get them out of the way for your allies to come in and tank a bit. Indeed. The times I've built these I've fielded them almost every fight. They they always have some use even I straightforward battles, and when RNGesus is in a pissy mood, they are there to pull out a brother with a pierced leg. Also, they are easy to find candidates for as all they really need is Matk. They work well as nimblers, so fatigue is not that much of an issue. My point here is, I'm not to bothered if they meet Man With Crossbow one day. Hieronymous Alloy posted:
Why can you not? I usually do if there is the fatigue for it and is useful since its percentage based. Also, iron lunged wildmen and farmers show up with the right stars often enough that I've managed to get one or two wreckers like this in several companies. And they do wreck 
TheBeardyCleaver fucked around with this message at 00:26 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 00:23
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Indomitable + Adrenaline + Recover + A basic 2h swing is not too fatigue intensive. You need 69 max fatigue (75 w/o mastery) which should be attainable for good brothers. It's using the 20+ fatigue attacks that require godly stats. Doing it is more of a emergency thing and not something you do all the time. You're halving the amount of attacks that you output, but that damage reduction can be extremely helpful if a flank is getting overwhelmed. Popping adrenaline before recovering can work sometimes, but I've found that you often start the turn fatigued out when doing the loop. If you can then you absolutely should though,
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May 30, 2019 00:36
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Osci posted:Indomitable + Adrenaline + Recover + A basic 2h swing is not too fatigue intensive. You need 69 max fatigue (75 w/o mastery) which should be attainable for good brothers. This.
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May 30, 2019 00:41
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Osci posted:Indomitable + Adrenaline + Recover + A basic 2h swing is not too fatigue intensive. You need 69 max fatigue (75 w/o mastery) which should be attainable for good brothers. Ok, yeah, that makes a bit more sense. Still I'm not sure it's worth it for Adrenaline on a berserker when you'd have to give up something else. Basically, it seems like you want Pathfinder, rotation, recover, brawny, battleforged, underdog, and indomitable, on every frontliner, and that only leaves two slots; your wreckers need Berserk and Killing Frenzy, while your defenders can take adrenaline and shield expert and then do perma-shield or perma-indomitable as necessary. After all you aren't buying a huge huge leap with adrenaline when you're already doing the recover, the recover alone will give you an initiative boost. It'd seem like you just need the adrenaline when holding the line is *essential*. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 01:12 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 01:01
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Ok, yeah, that makes a bit more sense. Personally I'm not a huge fan of pathfinder. Having played around with adrenaline I also kinda like it outside of the indom loops. It let's you do some pretty aggressive moves with 2-handers and can let you kill off that one dangerous enemy that barely survived. What is essentially a double move can also let you catch archers easily. In the end I see it as a worse rotation. You can use it in some cute ways to position, but the main use is as a lifesaver when things start to go south. I don't see it as mandatory on non-tanks. It's a perk I like but it often gets cut if the brother need to patch up something else.
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May 30, 2019 01:31
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Osci posted:Personally I'm not a huge fan of pathfinder. I support this. Definitely a tank and perfect wrecker thing. My second hedge knight on the lone wolf start is primed for it, see how that goes. Pathfinder is nice, but I put it on some guys that need to move around a lot, catch runners and the like. In the whole, I see a proper adrenaline build more powerful for end game context, but then I'm biased towards full offense. Next, I'd like to see someone do a perfect fencing build with the new relentless perk. I really want it to work, but so far it feels as niche as the dagger.
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May 30, 2019 02:12
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Chosen are kinda over tuned for how many of them appear in day 120+ camps. I've got a few camps that are 18 or 19 chosen and they can one shot a guy in 300+ helm/armor if they get lucky.
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May 30, 2019 03:58
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Wizard Styles posted:
Hearty lol
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May 30, 2019 05:24
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I really think that recover should be something that every unit can do as a baseline, it's way too essential to be a perk but it also makes it easy for less experienced players to accidentally make their units suck once you get to the point where you start using 2handers a lot And you can certainly do without pathfinder but it makes swamp / forest / snow fights much more tolerable. It's frustrating that you kind of have to choose between a mostly quality of life thing and stuff to make your bros better at what they're actually supposed to do.
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May 30, 2019 07:40
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I have recover on my "will actually be swinging for the fences literally every turn" bro's, its helpful for super, super long fights but I don't get those very often. The last super long fights I've had have all been noble war related and when my Bro's start getting tired I rotate them behind using whatever houses troops are nearby. Sorry buddy, you can take this champion on for me, i need a break!
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May 30, 2019 10:11
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The only ones I don't regularly take recover on is the polearm lads that I keep around for utility. On the others I always regret it if i don't. Having them stand around slowly recovering their breath is far too annoying. Lazy bastards. Does sort of work with iron lunged farmers and stuff, but then I'm back at adrenaline builds. Anyone tried that New legendary sword that shoots chain lightning or whatnot? Seems like that would be crazy good on a riposte swordsman. Bypasses armour as far as I understand.
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May 30, 2019 10:37
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I'm working towards it with my current company. Will actually savescum if needed because I want to play about with it.
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May 30, 2019 11:15
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How do you reach friendly territory in raider start without being murked by mercenaries or household troops?
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May 30, 2019 12:04
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dogstile posted:I'm working towards it with my current company. Will actually savescum if needed because I want to play about with it. Any thoughts on bro and perks for this? I'm pretty much thinking adrenaline+recover for keeping up riposte, and probably battleforged if I can get enough fatigue. The Davkul armour and nimble could work though. Probably some other fancy sets I'm not currently aware of. This is likely a build specifically to take on the black monolith and other hordes of enemies, so no expenses spared I think. A swordmaster in Davkul who's had the fountain of youth thing is the best candidate maybe. A thought: If the swordmaster gets converted to a cultist, does that mean he never gets the old event? Edit: Tias posted:How do you reach friendly territory in raider start without being murked by mercenaries or household troops? My personal favourite is to lure them into a group of spiders that will net them or several bandit groups. Hide in the bushes and try to kill off the remainders as they get worn down. I once did this three times on the way down. Once i just stole a pike and hosed of with it using retreat. Ended up with some nice starting equipment once I got down south. You could also just sneak through the wilderness. Stick to the mountains and you can usually spot things far off and avoid trouble. TheBeardyCleaver fucked around with this message at 12:22 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 12:11
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Tias posted:How do you reach friendly territory in raider start without being murked by mercenaries or household troops? Run through woods and mountains so they can’t see you - I went way out into the wilderness and then just fled from everything until I got down into safe territory.
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May 30, 2019 12:22
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lenoon posted:Run through woods and mountains so they can’t see you - I went way out into the wilderness and then just fled from everything until I got down into safe territory. If you can, try raiding a trading caravan or two before doing that. Caravan hands and guards are no match for your starting bros and you can get good money from selling the looted goods down south.
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May 30, 2019 12:44
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Osci posted:Indom got nerfed to 25 fatigue. I also think that it's safest to assume that you will be completely fatigued out (except your 15 fatigue/turn) when you come to your recover+adrenaline turn. Getting back to this math -- So OTOH, if all you want is "indomitable every turn," you'd just need . . . 45 max fatigue after armor? That's doable for almost everyone. So if all you need is a shieldwall, like for orc warriors, that's doable right there. Indomitable + shieldwall skill would be ... 45 total fatigue . . 85 fatigue after armor. Not easy but not completely unachievable. Perma-spearwall would be.. . 30 cost . . .55 fatigue, again very doable. How does all this math change if you have Iron Lungs?
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May 30, 2019 13:16
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TheBeardyCleaver posted:Any thoughts on bro and perks for this? I'm pretty much thinking adrenaline+recover for keeping up riposte, and probably battleforged if I can get enough fatigue. The Davkul armour and nimble could work though. Probably some other fancy sets I'm not currently aware of. This is likely a build specifically to take on the black monolith and other hordes of enemies, so no expenses spared I think. I'm just going to use one of my 2h sword bro's but just respec him using an oblivion potion. Then yeah, probably adrenaline, battleforged, recover, brawny, steelbrow, sword mastery, overwhelm (not sure if it applies to lightning, so its a test!), underdog, killing frenzy? My starting barbarians are all absolute loving monsters. Any one of them will work. Tias posted:How do you reach friendly territory in raider start without being murked by mercenaries or household troops? I ran through the woods and jumped any caravans I saw on the way down. The biggest issue for me was having to spend like 50 days making sure I never did an escort quest because i'd always, without fail, run into mercs. Question for the vets, do merc groups respawn or are they limited? I've not seen a few around since I destroyed them.
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May 30, 2019 13:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Getting back to this math -- Also interested in how this works out. In my cultist run I've lucked into 3 bros with iron lungs and the +2 fatigue recovery cultist bonus is just coming online. Ive got one who's gonna be pretty average melee but 3 stars of fatigue.
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May 30, 2019 13:42
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Just a reminder for the Cultist scenario that you can only convert uneducated or "Dumb" characters, so if you want a Swordmaster/Hunter/Hedge Knight to convert, they have to have that trait. Nobles can never be converted.
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May 30, 2019 13:44
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I ended up giving up on the cultist scenario because the rewards are absolutely terrible compared to what you have to give up. It was kinda funny rescuing a guy from spiders only to immediately stab him to death tho.
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May 30, 2019 13:45
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dogstile posted:I ended up giving up on the cultist scenario because the rewards are absolutely terrible compared to what you have to give up. It was kinda funny rescuing a guy from spiders only to immediately stab him to death tho. All these refugees keep hopping on my altar this run. When you gave up on your cultist run had you gotten the prophet yet? Mass fatigue recovery looks like it would open some doors to using lesser bros continuing the meatgrinder into late game, but I haven't yet been able to hold a single ranged bro yet and have had to put slings on half my bros to get turning enemies to charge me.
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May 30, 2019 13:55
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The recovery is good but I don't think it makes up for having to have a sacrificial lamb and having to spend what seems to be 50 years trying to cultivate a dumb hunter into being your ranged dude.
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May 30, 2019 14:00
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Getting back to this math -- If you just change the recovery/turn to 19 you get x=2y-17 An easier way to think about it is that you can triple your bonus recovery and that's how much less max fatigue you need. So 12 less for iron lungs, 6 less for cultists and 18 less if you have both.
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May 30, 2019 14:06
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Iiinteresting, ok. So an Iron Lung berserker with 79 fatigue after armor could go on a constant indomitable swing party. If you're surrendering Weapon Mastery to get Adrenaline, you'd need . . 83? fatigue max to go on an eternal tear.
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May 30, 2019 15:10
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dogstile posted:I ended up giving up on the cultist scenario because the rewards are absolutely terrible compared to what you have to give up. It was kinda funny rescuing a guy from spiders only to immediately stab him to death tho. Have you tried cultists on a map with lots of mushrooms? It's either the swamp or the mushroom farm that makes them spawn in the recruitment pool.
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May 30, 2019 15:21
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Iiinteresting, ok. I have not mathed this out, because of a slight case of the dumb, but it sounds about right. Tend to play these things by ear, but having the numbers for reference is great, so cheers for doing that! Also to that other fellow that mathed things. Broken Cog posted:Just a reminder for the Cultist scenario that you can only convert uneducated or "Dumb" characters, so if you want a Swordmaster/Hunter/Hedge Knight to convert, they have to have that trait. I am sad about this. Was going to convert a Swordmaster so he never got old, but I'm not about to BBEdit a swordmaster for that. Might as well just edit out the old part. And that is more than even my savescumming self is willing to cheat. TheBeardyCleaver fucked around with this message at 16:05 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 16:03
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Man it drives me a little nuts how rare noble war contracts are. The event text for the noble war is all about how there will be limitless work for you in the coming weeks, but then the actual war itself might offer you like two contracts over an entire month, even if you do nothing but move between the noble's cities looking for work. Like the only noble contracts I've seen in weeks were one to go hunt some goblins and one to go halfway across the map to hunt down a barbarian king. Guys, there's a war on! Send me to go fight a battle or something!
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May 30, 2019 16:21
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TheBeardyCleaver posted:I have not mathed this out, because of a slight case of the dumb, but it sounds about right. Tend to play these things by ear, but having the numbers for reference is great, so cheers for doing that! Also to that other fellow that mathed things. There is actually a way to remove the old trait, it involves finding a particular Legendary Location.
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May 30, 2019 16:23
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vyelkin posted:Man it drives me a little nuts how rare noble war contracts are. The event text for the noble war is all about how there will be limitless work for you in the coming weeks, but then the actual war itself might offer you like two contracts over an entire month, even if you do nothing but move between the noble's cities looking for work. Like the only noble contracts I've seen in weeks were one to go hunt some goblins and one to go halfway across the map to hunt down a barbarian king. Guys, there's a war on! Send me to go fight a battle or something! It is a little boring how fast it goes too. I only get like 3-4 real event missions off before I’ve won, especially when they send you to the other side of the map.
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May 30, 2019 16:25
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TheBeardyCleaver posted:I have not mathed this out, because of a slight case of the dumb, but it sounds about right. Tend to play these things by ear, but having the numbers for reference is great, so cheers for doing that! Also to that other fellow that mathed things. Yeah, this'll all go into the guide in simplified form. What this seems to translate as is that a Bro with Brawny and Weapon Mastery, wearing Sellsword's Armor and a Full Helm and carrying a Greatsword has a fatigue penalty of = .75(- 52) -12 = has a fatigue penalty of 51, so Formula being (x-15)/2+20-15+y=x (where "20" is the adrenaline cost , x is max fatigue, y is ability cost in addition to adrenaline), will need: Max Fatigue (naked true max) of 142 if he wants to split++indomitable+ adrenaline every turn Max Fatigue (naked true max) of 130 if if he wants to split++indomitable+ adrenaline every turn *and* has Iron Lungs Max Fatigue (naked true max) of . . 102? if he wants to split+indomitable every turn but does not use Adrenaline ? Interestingly, change that to wearing just basic Scale armor -- maybe all you need if you're going perma-indomitable -- and then you're looking at a total armor penalty of 48 .. just three points cheaper. Change it to full plate and you're at just eight points higher. Does that all check out to everyone? Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 16:48 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 16:27
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vyelkin posted:Man it drives me a little nuts how rare noble war contracts are. The event text for the noble war is all about how there will be limitless work for you in the coming weeks, but then the actual war itself might offer you like two contracts over an entire month, even if you do nothing but move between the noble's cities looking for work. Like the only noble contracts I've seen in weeks were one to go hunt some goblins and one to go halfway across the map to hunt down a barbarian king. Guys, there's a war on! Send me to go fight a battle or something! Really? When I've had the Wars, I'm fighting constant battles, though some of that is me wandering out to kill companies for sport/armor. I seem to get contracts for the Noble War very often when it's on.
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May 30, 2019 16:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Max Fatigue (naked true max) of 142 if he wants to split++indomitable+ adrenaline every turn Looks correct. The only thing I'd be careful about is using "every turn". It's more like you use it every 2 turns, but enemies won't ever have a chance to hit you without indom up.
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May 30, 2019 16:48
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What does "MA" mean on that Battle Brothers Class Chart?
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May 30, 2019 16:49
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