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NovemberMike posted:No, 40k's just a different game. It's not an accurate simulation of the fluff and it's not meant to be. What an odd take. 40k is a game. People like playing it competitively. GW likes that people play it competitively. More point granularity facilitates a better competitive game and game design in general. And if you don’t want to play competitive games NovemberMile, then it still doesn’t hurt you at all. There’s no downside.
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May 30, 2019 15:21
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On the one hand, granularity is good and there's no real difference between a 10,000 point game with 180 point Primaris Marines and a 1,000 point game with 18 point Primaris Marines. On the other hand GW has actively pushed against that granularity and my understanding is that we were very close to being forced to use Power Level for everything. So I wonder how likely additional granularity will ever be.
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May 30, 2019 15:50
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Additional granularity doesn’t matter when you have guardsmen and a warhound in the same game. Most wargear could be free and it wouldn’t change the game significantly.
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May 30, 2019 16:04
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I wouldn't mind a switch to power level. The current organization of points into "base model + gear" is a pain in the butt. Might as well switch over to power level and work out the kinks in 9E.
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May 30, 2019 17:32
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Naramyth posted:Additional granularity doesn’t matter when you have guardsmen and a warhound in the same game. Most wargear could be free and it wouldn’t change the game significantly. Most 40k games don’t have a warhound in it. And that’s an argument which fails to show why granularity is bad or “doesn’t matter”. That last statement is wildly untrue The only reason against granularity is to make the game simpler and easier to pick up, as beer hinted at in his post. JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 18:11 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 18:09
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Most 40k games don’t have a warhound in it. And that’s an argument which fails to show why granularity is bad or “doesn’t matter”. Additional granularity makes it easier to balance guardsmen against warhounds.
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May 30, 2019 18:15
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Just got my hands on the kill team elites rule book and I’ve gotta chime in and say that I find the militarum tempestus regimental ability to be really lacking compared to the others.
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May 30, 2019 19:58
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Naramyth posted:Additional granularity doesn’t matter when you have guardsmen and a warhound in the same game. Most wargear could be free and it wouldn’t change the game significantly. I one thousand percent agree with this
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May 30, 2019 19:58
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GreenMarine posted:I wouldn't mind a switch to power level. The current organization of points into "base model + gear" is a pain in the butt. Might as well switch over to power level and work out the kinks in 9E. The problem with that is there are definite "best" loadouts when it comes to gear.
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May 30, 2019 20:09
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Floppychop posted:The problem with that is there are definite "best" loadouts when it comes to gear. Is that really any different from there being "best" units in the game? It might actually open up some opportunities for more nuance and balance. For example with Primaris Marines a chainsword is free, a power sword is 4 points, and a power fist is 9 points. If they're all the same price then something else has to happen in order for them to be balanced. Perhaps chainswords give two free attacks, power swords give one, and power fists stay the same.
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May 30, 2019 20:15
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Is that really any different from there being "best" units in the game? It might actually open up some opportunities for more nuance and balance. For example with Primaris Marines a chainsword is free, a power sword is 4 points, and a power fist is 9 points. If they're all the same price then something else has to happen in order for them to be balanced. Perhaps chainswords give two free attacks, power swords give one, and power fists stay the same.
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May 30, 2019 20:17
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Safety Factor posted:We've seen GW attempt this with Age of Sigmar and it doesn't really work out. Doesn't work out in the sense that there's still an optimal build? I thought people liked AoS a lot.
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May 30, 2019 20:23
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Most 40k games don’t have a warhound in it. And that’s an argument which fails to show why granularity is bad or “doesn’t matter”. Because list building requires a third party calculator to do in a reasonable time. Making list building simpler and more accessible is good. What’s an example where it would matter of some wargear was free? For real. No one cares about tooled up marines or harlies. knights, tau commanders, and dreads would still be about the same cost. Flyrants and fexes would be the same either way, having a fusion gun an an autarch or whatever doesn’t really matter and having an extra stormbolter and HK on each rhino might make rhinos playable. I’m sure there are corner cases but that’s the meta right now and at least we would see guardsmen with a meltagun or whatever.
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May 30, 2019 20:32
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Naramyth posted:Because list building requires a third party calculator to do in a reasonable time. Making list building simpler and more accessible is good. yeah the only places I really see it mattering are on stuff like knights and like, heavy weapon squads where the difference between a lascannon and a heavy bolter is large but imo you should make devastators come with heavy bolters and upgrade to lascannons and make heavy bolters better such that you don't need the points difference to begin with.
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May 30, 2019 20:50
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Vanguard Veteran and Death Company Marines are the biggest offender by far, coming standard with bolt pistol and chainsword but being upgradeable to Thunder Hammer + Inferno Pistol. Leman Russes are probably a close second with Punisher + one Heavy Bolter as one of the cheapest but you can shove a truckload of Multimeltas and a fuckoff big plasma cannon on the same tank. If anyone used it, the difference between least expensive and most extensive Stormsurge is almost 150 points starting at 350.
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May 30, 2019 21:31
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Booley posted:Additional granularity makes it easier to balance guardsmen against warhounds. Yes. I agree with that and never disagreed with it. My point is that granularity is good.
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May 30, 2019 21:39
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Yes. I agree with that and never disagreed with it. Yes I know I was agreeing with you and arguing against naramyth
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May 30, 2019 21:52
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More pictures of my repressor project.  Three models assembled and ready for priming.  Front view. The blades aren’t completely symmetric but I don’t think it will matter much once they’re painted on the table.  Blocked up the shooting slots with popsicle sticks. This worked better than I thought it had a right to.  All zenithal primed up and ready to go. Did I even spell that right?  Side view, which shows the darker color underneath better.  After priming I noticed a few new gaps. In particular these on the back end need attention.  Also noticed on the side of one transport the edge isn’t flush with the tracks. I might try to glue this down. I think it will be too big and weird a gap if I don’t fix it.  Same gap but viewed from the top. Am I being too fussy looking at this thing? Gameko fucked around with this message at 23:37 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 23:30
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Gameko posted:More pictures of my repressor project. Looks like a nice project. I guess I'm out of the loop. Are those heavy armored rhinos with just a dual heavy bolters?
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May 30, 2019 23:47
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Sisters of Battle troop transports. Default loadout includes a heavy flammer and the option to add a second flamer or plasma, I think. Also has six firing ports on the sides. My hope is a mechanized SoB army when plastics arrive.
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May 30, 2019 23:54
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Chapter Master Raldoron!  
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May 31, 2019 00:23
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Strobe posted:Vanguard Veteran and Death Company Marines are the biggest offender by far, coming standard with bolt pistol and chainsword but being upgradeable to Thunder Hammer + Inferno Pistol. Deathwatch Killteams as well.
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May 31, 2019 02:09
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:What an odd take. I'm not sure how you read what I said but that's not what I'm talking about. 40k uses a d6, so there's only a certain amount of granularity there. GW could move to a d20 or a 3d6 or something but that would drastically change the game. I'm not talking about letting people pay 4.2 points for a guardsman with an extra laspistol.
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May 31, 2019 02:27
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I don’t know, one of my favorite things about 40k is list building. Umming and ahhing over whether I should bring a plasma pistol on my captain, and the trying to figure out the optimal points-to-efficiency of how many of my acolytes I can reasonably expect to actually fire their hand flames and maybe the remaining 7 points are better spent on an extra neophyte, or maybe upgrade to an incinerator on the Goliath instead of both, and so on.
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May 31, 2019 03:03
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Perhaps chainswords give two free attacks, power swords give one, and power fists stay the same. If GW would make chainswords at least more useful than a combat knife I would be so happy. Before I actually played 40k I was very into the lore and aesthetic, imagine my surprise when I learned chainswords are completely identical on the table to a plain old knife.
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May 31, 2019 04:09
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PinheadSlim posted:If GW would make chainswords at least more useful than a combat knife I would be so happy. Before I actually played 40k I was very into the lore and aesthetic, imagine my surprise when I learned chainswords are completely identical on the table to a plain old knife. Come play Necromunda, m'lord
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May 31, 2019 04:26
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Yeast posted:Come play Necromunda, m'lord A game where the 80s punkhammer aesthetic still thrives? Holy poo poo why did I waste any time or money on 40k or kill team, shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit Time to get the rules and watch some demos
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May 31, 2019 04:36
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PinheadSlim posted:A game where the 80s punkhammer aesthetic still thrives? Holy poo poo why did I waste any time or money on 40k or kill team, shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit It really is the best game.
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May 31, 2019 04:38
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:It really is the best game. I just found out Squats are still in it so yeah, it is objectively the best 40k game. Edit : Unless 1d4chan is out of date on this, too, which is a good chance :V
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May 31, 2019 04:41
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Booley posted:Chapter Master Raldoron! Christ I love what you’ve done with cleaning the blood from the sword.
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May 31, 2019 04:42
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I was assembling my friend's Mortarion as a favor, and it got me thinking that I wish my army had an awesome large center piece model. My two main armies are Blood Angel's and AdMech, though. Am I pretty much limited to Knights?
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May 31, 2019 04:48
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ThNextGreenLantern posted:I was assembling my friend's Mortarion as a favor, and it got me thinking that I wish my army had an awesome large center piece model. My two main armies are Blood Angel's and AdMech, though. Am I pretty much limited to Knights? Forgeworld makes a variety of large tanks. They look cool but are all bad in 8th.
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May 31, 2019 04:51
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PinheadSlim posted:I just found out Squats are still in it so yeah, it is objectively the best 40k game. Squats are very much alive and well in the cocaine fueled neon nightmare of the Underhive. 
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May 31, 2019 04:55
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PinheadSlim posted:If GW would make chainswords at least more useful than a combat knife I would be so happy. Before I actually played 40k I was very into the lore and aesthetic, imagine my surprise when I learned chainswords are completely identical on the table to a plain old knife. I would like them a lot if they gave one extra attack but it was AP-1. Boltguns/Pistols should probably also be AP-1 against Infantry, while I've got the wishlist up.
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May 31, 2019 05:16
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Bring back the Parry rule for swords.
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May 31, 2019 05:26
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Strobe posted:I would like them a lot if they gave one extra attack but it was AP-1. Boltguns/Pistols should probably also be AP-1 against Infantry, while I've got the wishlist up. Just looking at them it makes sense that a marine would be able to beat an eldar guardian or normal human to death with their bare hands, they might take a combat knife to make it easier to kill lightly armored dudes (an extra attack represents this), a chainsword would help them cut through armored/big enemys (+strength or ap, honestly the chainaxe stats are great for this) and then more advanced weapons would be rarer.
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May 31, 2019 05:34
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Putting admech together has been interesting because they're packing 30" galvanic rifles with S4 AP-1 on a 6 to wound which I think a boltgun should get as well when you consider a square hit is going to explode the target. Marines are pretty underwhelming and feel generic rather than elite. I think it's an interesting conundrum for GW when the poster-boys aren't performing. I get it's all balancing so the game's fun but I think marines could use a little bit more oomph. On the brighter side my TH/SS wolf guard mashed the poo poo out of everything in their last game and (with a couple of command points and some luck) were essentially invincible.
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May 31, 2019 05:42
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JBP posted:Putting admech together has been interesting because they're packing 30" galvanic rifles with S4 AP-1 on a 6 to wound which I think a boltgun should get as well when you consider a square hit is going to explode the target. Marines are pretty underwhelming and feel generic rather than elite. I think it's an interesting conundrum for GW when the poster-boys aren't performing. I feel like Primaris marines are just GW hamfistedly trying to make Marines as tough as they are in the fluff and also tru-scale at the same time. However halfway through they realized they couldn't get rid of the old Marines but went ahead with Primaris anyways thus defeating the whole point of revamping Marines in the first place. The result is clunky and I feel like a lot of people, myself included, have trouble understanding what's the point of Primaris to begin with, on and off the table.
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May 31, 2019 05:50
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Primarnius Calgar broke my brain.
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May 31, 2019 05:57
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NovemberMike posted:I'm not sure how you read what I said but that's not what I'm talking about. 40k uses a d6, so there's only a certain amount of granularity there. GW could move to a d20 or a 3d6 or something but that would drastically change the game. I'm not talking about letting people pay 4.2 points for a guardsman with an extra laspistol. Aren't they doing this for Apocalypse? I seem to recall there were some non-standard dice in the reveal article.
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May 31, 2019 08:39
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