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Carbon dioxide posted:In the UK I've heard people say "half nine" when they mean half past nine. That's very confusing to me because "half nine" in Dutch means "half an hour before nine". Same in the US. "Half-nine" makes my brain throw its hands up for about 30 seconds before I can work it out, even if I know what the British person is actually saying.
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May 28, 2019 17:33
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Soricidus posted:huh, i live in the midlands and have never heard anyone say this in my life. maybe i need to hang out with more old people in tiny villages or something Now it looks like it's dying out everywhere since then, but it'd be interesting where the hot spots still are. My money would be on small villages in the East Midlands and the parts of Yorkshire that still use thees and thous.
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May 28, 2019 17:36
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As discussed earlier, we had federal, regional, and European elections in Belgium last Sunday. Here are the results (focusing mainly on Flanders). The Belgian color scheme is that red is socialist, blue is liberal, dark orange is Christian democrat. Federal parliament:  For the first time there's a clear center-periphery effect in Flanders, with N-VA still dominating the Flemish Diamond while losing steam elsewhere. Flemish parliament:   The results in Brussels here only show the people who chose to vote in the Flemish elections (about 15% of the local electorate). The grey municipalities surrounding Brussels in Flemish Brabant voted UF, a francophone unity list. European parliament:   Slight Verhofstadt effect here when you consider that contiguous blue blob in his home province of East Flanders (which rather confusingly is in the west of Flanders). The big story in Flanders is the resurgence of Vlaams Belang, the far-right xenophobic party, after almost being wiped out in 2014. The right-wing regionalist N-VA lost significantly compared to last time, but are still the largest party at every level by a comfortable margin. The three 'traditional' parties (socialist, liberal, Christian democrat) also managed to lose despite already being at completely anemic proportions. Other than VB, only Groen and the communists made progress, and the former only slightly - no green wave here. On a regional level it would be possible to continue the current coalition of N-VA-Open VLD-CD&V, but federally MR-N-VA-Open VLD-CD&V (which was in power until N-VA left in 2018) does not have enough seats. VB's votes are basically locked down as no one wants to form a coalition with them, and most francophone parties other than MR have already excluded N-VA. Forming a federal government will be a difficult and messy process again, and will probably end with a minority on the Flemish side.
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May 28, 2019 18:16
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Cat Mattress posted:How to say "80" in Italian: quattro-venti ogni giorno
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May 28, 2019 18:31
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The only issue I could see with that is that it might be a sort of "ring language" kind of thing? Where Tunisian Arabic isn't mutually intelligible with Lebanese Arabic, but you can construct a chain of mutual intelligibility through the dialects between them? To some extent, but Tunisian Arabic isn't really any closer to Egyptian than it is to Lebanese.  Plus can't you connect a chain of mutual intelligibility through basically any set of dialects? Minus a few that have solidified in more recent years due to borders and state pressure (maybe e.g. Scandinavian and Balkan languages?). For the Arabic map, it's hard to say how much of that map is realistic and encountered daily, and how much is a dialect color spoken by 6 people on an oasis somewhere while 99% of the people on the ground have converged to some standard regional dialect. My wife is kind of an interesting case anecdote for that as she grew up speaking Magrebi Arabic but did not have any schooling in standard classical Arabic, nor much exposure to Egyptian or Lebanese media, so while she could get around more or less just fine in Morocco, in Jordan and Egypt she couldn't understand anything nor make herself understood, akin to an American with 4 years of high school Spanish trying to get around Mexico with the 6 words they remember but mostly having to use charades. She learned Egyptian Arabic super fast though after moving there but did require a lot of courses and active effort -- it wasn't passive like moving to Australia and "learning" the Australian. Maltese Arabic is totally ncomprehensible to a speaker of other Arabic dialects**, but not sure about Yemeni/Chadian/Mauritanian/etc. I don't know how true those colors "really" are, but at least the North African blue and the Egyptian/Mediterranean Arabic correspond to personal experience except for "Badawi" spoken on the coast of Egypt; never ever heard anything other than standard Egyptian Arabic in Hurghada or wherever. Also the "Nubi" stretching into Egypt is weird, as that colored part of Egypt is literally 100% uninhabited except for Abu Simbel, where literally everyone speaks Egyptian Arabic. I guess that coloration maybe made sense before Lake Nasser filled up. **Apparently '40%' from a 2017 research paper, but that seems... high. Maybe 40% of words are comprehensible on their own if said one by one slowly. Saladman fucked around with this message at 22:18 on May 28, 2019 |
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May 28, 2019 22:10
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Why does that map group give Yemeni Arabic and Somali the same color, they’re no more closely related than English and Persian. Although they’ve probably shared more words in recent history
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May 28, 2019 22:31
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Cat Mattress posted:How to say "80" in French:
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May 28, 2019 23:16
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Squalid posted:Why does that map group give Yemeni Arabic and Somali the same color, they’re no more closely related than English and Persian. Although they’ve probably shared more words in recent history I guess the same reason South Sudan or Israel or Cyprus get it -- there's a historical local minority that speaks an Arabic dialect. There's a Somali-Arabic, distinct from the "Somali" language. E: Looking at that map again, although I've never been there I am highly skeptical that the people in Siwa and Marsa Matruh speak a variety of Arabic closer to Libyan-Tripoli than to Cairene Arabic. Maybe in like 1950 those colors were more accurate but there's no way the Arabic spoken in Siwa is closer to Tripoli (or even Benghazi) than to Cairo. My grandparents moved all across the MENA gradually going west from Beirut to Algiers (very gradually -- over a period of like 40 years) and I never heard them mention any issues communicating, but I guess you'd get used to it, plus they only ever lived in big cities. That said I never really asked about it, and now one is passed away and the other is way senile. Saladman fucked around with this message at 00:37 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 00:29
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Lord Hydronium posted:Why does "octante" get its own symbol, instead of being grouped with the other cognates? Etymology. Octante comes from the Latin octoginta (80); huitante was created on the same model (i.e. word ending in ante) from modern French word huit (8). Otante and utante are derived from huitante, not from octante.
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May 29, 2019 00:33
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Saladman posted:I guess the same reason South Sudan or Israel or Cyprus get it -- there's a historical local minority that speaks an Arabic dialect. There's a Somali-Arabic, distinct from the "Somali" language. looking at it its real generous. Historically there were Arabs and Persians living in cities like Mogadishu and Arabic could have been used in some Sufi shrines, but it's not important and it would have been confined to coastal enclaves in normal speech. The "Juba" dialect they is is also more of an Arabic pidgin or creole, and probably was never widespread outside the city of Juba itself. Meanwhile the map is missing several central Asian Arabic dialects/creoles, although they would only be little fly specks and in a generation they will probably be extinct anyway.
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May 29, 2019 00:46
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Generous is the right word. The Cypriot Arabic is pretty much dying out and is already limited to older generations, I think whatever communal glue kept the local Maronites together got tossed into the wind by the 74' misery. And they're a truly tiny tiny group as it is. Yet the map shows blobby areas like you'd encounter some hearty ethnic enclaves.
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May 29, 2019 01:12
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Saladman posted:To some extent, but Tunisian Arabic isn't really any closer to Egyptian than it is to Lebanese. This map is mostly accurate i think, there is a few things that are wrong. For example the coast in Iran with the arabic dialect there should be more Iraqi sounding, i've spoken to enough Ahwaz arabs to know most of them have an accent thats similar to the iraqi one. North Mesopotamian is probably kurdish arabic (yeah i realize assyrians are also around in the north of iraq but my anecdotal example is that one assyrian i know had a perfectly fine generic iraqi accent), kurds are also diverse, the syrian kurds would have a more syrian accent, and the iraqi ones a bit more iraqi for example. Also this might sound racist but kurdish arabic sounds very funny to me cause just like kurdish it doesn't have gendered terms. edit: My experience with Yemeni and Somali is that they should be seperate at least, Yemeni sould be closer to Omani and Dhofari, somalian arabic is a wholly different accent but also more intelligible to me than Yemeni itself. Bahraini should be for the island of bahrain only, the accent in the mainland near bahrain and qatar should be something called Hasawi, but i guess it'd be politically loaded cause Saudi Arabia likes to pretend they don't exist. Egypt is also missing the delta accent, egypt is special cause there is two obvious "redneck" groups in the country, the delta fellahin and sai'di people. One more thing not present in the map is Shihi and Mahri, its kinda like maltese in that alot of the words are very classic old arabic words and also unintelligible to arabic speakers as a whole. (one weird example is Sinaur for cat, in modern arabic its Qit, but Sinaur is probably the ancient greek loanword Silur). Fizzil fucked around with this message at 01:59 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 29, 2019 01:50
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Cat Mattress posted:Etymology. Octante comes from the Latin octoginta (80); huitante was created on the same model (i.e. word ending in ante) from modern French word huit (8). Otante and utante are derived from huitante, not from octante.
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May 29, 2019 04:16
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Soricidus posted:I particularly appreciate Brittany in these maps. presumably they were too scared of breton nationalists to survey the francophone majority? I find it particularly funny because Breton uses an even more vigesimal system than French, 20 is "ugent", 40 is "daou ugent" 60 is "tri ugent" 70 is "dek ha tri ugent", 80 is "pevar ugent" and 90 is "dek ha pevar ugent". Also, I don't know where that septante map gets it's data, in 7 years living in Rennes I never heard a single person say "septante". It doesn't even make sense as something influenced by Gallo because in Gallo it's "seissante-dis", at least according to a couple of Gallo speakers I asked on Facebook.
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May 29, 2019 04:37
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Fizzil posted:One more thing not present in the map is Shihi and Mahri, its kinda like maltese in that alot of the words are very classic old arabic words and also unintelligible to arabic speakers as a whole. (one weird example is Sinaur for cat, in modern arabic its Qit, but Sinaur is probably the ancient greek loanword Silur). That gets pretty distorted all the way to qatoos (قطّوس) in Tunisian. I imagine that's the same cognate as qit, but not something you'd naturally recognize, unless you saw someone cooing to a qatoos. Interesting on the rest, thanks!
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May 29, 2019 10:14
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Lord Hydronium posted:Cool, thanks! So who says "octante"? They seem very rare and not associated with any particular region on that map. It's basically dead or at least dying. Octante was used mostly in Switzerland, but it's been replaced by huitante long ago. People who use octante now are mostly people from France who don't know "huitante" exists and make a conscious choice not to use quatre-vingt despite it being what they were taught in school and what everybody around them use. So yeah, very rare, mostly used by the kind of people who want to show everyone how smarter and more logical they are than the sheeple.
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May 29, 2019 13:14
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Pook Good Mook posted:Same in the US. "Half-nine" makes my brain throw its hands up for about 30 seconds before I can work it out, even if I know what the British person is actually saying. I've had some so-called Finnish speakers get confused when I say "viis vail pual" i.e. "five from half" or "kymment yli pual" i.e. "ten past half" instead of "twenty-five past" or "twenty to" respectively. No idea if it's a regional thing or a generational thing I hope they stop asking me for the time 
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May 30, 2019 11:58
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Jerry Cotton posted:I've had some so-called Finnish speakers get confused when I say "viis vail pual" i.e. "five from half" or "kymment yli pual" i.e. "ten past half" instead of "twenty-five past" or "twenty to" respectively. No idea if it's a regional thing or a generational thing I hope they stop asking me for the time In German, the "half hours" are uniform (i.e. 09:30 is "halb zehn"/"half ten"), but there are two ways to say the "quarter hours". Either with a preposition, like in English: 09:15 ->"viertel nach neun" /"quarter past 9"; 09:45 -> "viertel vor zehn"/"quarter to ten" or as part of the full next hour: 09:15 ->"viertel zehn" /"quarter ten"; 09:45 -> "dreiviertel zehn"/"three-quarters ten" The former is easier to understand, but the "half ten" does not really fit (and is different to English, where this would be half past nine), the latter is more consistent (quarter, half, three-quarters), but much easier to misunderstand, if you don't know that it is counted until the next and not from the last full hour. Although that may be the Celsius/Fahrenheit effect, where the scale you are used to automatically makes more sense (the past/to for me) and the people using the other one are all dumb, uncultured hicks.  For the five-minute steps, it's usually "five past, ten past, quarter past, twenty past, five to half, half, five past half, twenty to, quarter to, ten to, five to". In Slovak it's the "quarter, half (to), three-quarters" - scheme. My wife sometimes uses "ten to half", "ten past half", but I suspect it's more to annoy me than it being a common way to express those times.
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May 30, 2019 15:56
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This is why you always use a preposition.
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May 30, 2019 21:00
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It's half nine past.
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May 30, 2019 21:30
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Pook Good Mook posted:Same in the US. "Half-nine" makes my brain throw its hands up for about 30 seconds before I can work it out, even if I know what the British person is actually saying. I have this problem with my own language. Every time I encounter "fourteenth century" or whatever, I have to think "twentieth century... that's 1900's... so fourteenth century... must be 1300's." Every single time.
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May 31, 2019 03:49
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Yeah frankly I find the whole xxth century thing to be bullshit. Say 1900 hundreds etc. do not use that confusing dumb rear end old idiom.
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May 31, 2019 03:56
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TCOOL
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May 31, 2019 06:05
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2001 was the first year of the twenty-first century.
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May 31, 2019 06:27
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I'm dumb as hell and have no problem with it. Now east and west? Someone needs to label these drat things
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May 31, 2019 06:54
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The brain is weird sometimes. I don't have any problems telling apart left and right, but my dad does, and he's intelligent.
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May 31, 2019 07:11
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Milo and POTUS posted:I'm dumb as hell and have no problem with it. Now east and west? Someone needs to label these drat things Nobody Equips Stupid Weapons.
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May 31, 2019 07:26
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doverhog posted:Yeah frankly I find the whole xxth century thing to be bullshit. Say 1900 hundreds etc. do not use that confusing dumb rear end old idiom. Great, now you have replaced “do they mean 1900-1999, 1901-2000, or 2000-2099?" with the much less confusing question "do they mean 1900-1999 or 1900-1909?"
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May 31, 2019 07:40
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doverhog posted:Yeah frankly I find the whole xxth century thing to be bullshit. Say 1900 hundreds etc. do not use that confusing dumb rear end old idiom. I think it's fine that way so "21st century" and "2000s" can mean different things.
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May 31, 2019 07:54
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“The first decade of the twentieth century.”
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May 31, 2019 08:03
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The nineteen-oughts.
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May 31, 2019 09:47
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Phlegmish posted:The brain is weird sometimes. I don't have any problems telling apart left and right, but my dad does, and he's intelligent. Yeah I have a shitload of trouble telling my left from right and I’m definitely what would be considered intelligent.
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May 31, 2019 12:11
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HookShot posted:Yeah I have a shitload of trouble telling my left from right and I’m definitely what would be considered intelligent. think of with which hand you hold a pen unless you are from the 0.00001% of the population who is naturally perfectly ambidextrous with no instinctive side preference
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May 31, 2019 14:43
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I would use the trick where if you hold out your left hand with thumb and forefinger out it's an L instead of a backwards L for a really long time Then eventually I would start doing it mentally instead of physically now I don't need to do any of it, but it took me years
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May 31, 2019 14:57
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On a similar note for knowing waning versus waxing moons there was an easy trick in French (and reasonably translated to English): something like "the moon is a liar, she says makes a C when she is decreasing and makes a D when she is crescending." Then this became confusing when someone from australia noted that the moon tells the truth, as she makes a C when she is crescendoing and a D when she is descending. Moral of the story: there’s probably always a way to gently caress up using a mnemonic or other similar trick. No idea what equatorial people would make of that moon mnemonic.
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May 31, 2019 15:07
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I'm fine with left and identifying a left facing me, but mirrors gently caress my brain right up. I have hosed my beard symmetry hard before due to that little mind problem.
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May 31, 2019 15:43
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HookShot posted:Yeah I have a shitload of trouble telling my left from right and I’m definitely what would be considered intelligent. there's a lot of stuff we're learning is subtle brain disorders that are super common think of kids who used to be considered slow and bad readers, then we discovered dyslexia was a thing and from there developed ways to help dyslexic people process the written word more effectively a friend of mine has a child who has dyspraxia. this means she has difficulty coordinating her body movements, so she's not great at sports or physical activity, she stumbles over her speech, had a hard time regulating her volume, etc. and this causes her emotional distress since she just can't do what other kids can do and isn't sure why. she's not a dumb kid by any measure, but now that we know there's a condition such as dyspraxia she can get special education for it instead of just being labeled clumsy and dumb and left in a corner i have a hard time keeping the days of the week straight so if i want to figure out if my next payday is on a tuesday or whatever i always have to resort to the knuckle trick
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May 31, 2019 16:22
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And then there's autism in its various flavours. Thanks god.
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May 31, 2019 16:49
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Never Eat Shredded Wheat I still have to use this for east-west.
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May 31, 2019 18:29
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luxury handset posted:i have a hard time keeping the days of the week straight so if i want to figure out if my next payday is on a tuesday or whatever i always have to resort to the knuckle trick I only know the one for months, knuckles are months with 31 days and the dips between them are months with 30 days or February days.
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May 31, 2019 18:50
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