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DIEGETIC SPACEMAN
Feb 25, 2007

fuck a car
i'll do a mothafuckin' walk-by
I recently got my hands on a 400 MHz iMac G3, so of course one of the first things I did was install ZDoom 2.7.1 on it. This is my first time playing through Doom the old school way, without fancy post-processed graphics and no mouse for aiming, and it’s a very different game. It’s more obvious why this was scary when it first came out. I’m not sure if it’s the OpenGL lighting or I just happen to always jack up the brightness without realizing, but it’s substantially darker than I’m used to. And not using a 5k DPI mouse to snap to targets means a lot of strafing around corners, and being more deliberate with movements.

In this context, I can see why they went in the direction they did with Doom 3 at the time versus Doom 2016’s style. There’s a lot of innate survival horror elements that get lost when the maps are properly lit, you can move swiftly without compromising your aiming, and your system isn’t struggling to handle a mild firefight at 640x480. Doesn’t mean I retroactively like Doom 3, just that I better understand how they were looking at the Doom series then vs now.

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The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747

Zaphod42 posted:

This is pretty rad.

I'm not sure I follow one of his points though... he's talking about a single player map and a multiplayer map and how you can have both as the same map...

And I'm like "well, okay, you can, but don't you have to make tradeoffs? So the whole point is its better to have a focus on one, or the other?"

And then he goes "so you can have a whole other part of the map designed for multiplayer, and part of the map designed for single player, and they're totally separate"

Uhhh cool but isn't that 2 maps at that point? :psyduck: All you're doing is combining levels for the purpose of... compressing the WAD? I don't get it.

The other person says "you've doubled your load!" but... you could just make a bigger WAD, right? Modern engines don't have level limits do they? And even if they did... you could release two WADs? I just don't really see what the point is here.

Also, they filmed it with texture filtering on :ohdear:

It's something relatively common. The first time I noticed this was in Demon Eclipse, but there have been a lot of other mods using this trick, before and since. It's also used consistently in REKKR and in Hell-Forged.

david_a posted:

It’s a known trick for vanilla-compatible map packs where you’re locked into a set number of levels. As far as I know Sigil is strictly vanilla, and since Romero is presenting it as the fifth episode of Doom it fits.
Sigil is limit-removing, you're going to get a visplane overflow pretty much immediately if you try it in vanilla or Chocolate Doom.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Oh, I actually thought Sigil wasn't limit-removing (what would be the term? limit compliant?)

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747

Turin Turambar posted:

Oh, I actually thought Sigil wasn't limit-removing (what would be the term? limit compliant?)

People generally just use "vanilla".

GeorgieMordor
Jan 23, 2015
I'm familiar with the Darkplaces port for Quake but is there one that gives hardware acceleration without the texturing filtering? Or an option to turn it off? I looked in the settings but couldn't find anything.

I'd like to play Quake in all its classic blocky goodness.

EDIT: Googled this like a champ and found my answer!

Sir Lemming
Jan 27, 2009

It's a piece of JUNK!
RE: Trademark law. They have a better case than a lot of you think. Trademark doesn't literally mean "we claim to own the words 'iron maiden' now, even though it's a thing from medieval times" or "if you have a pet mouse you're not allowed to name it Mickey". It's intended to protect against a situation where enough similarity exists that people will assume something is affiliated with / endorsed by one's brand when it actually isn't.

For example, the phrases "Best Buy" and "Stop & Shop" are obviously too generic to really be owned by anyone, so you'll see random local stores with those names sometimes. But if someone tried to start a large electronics-focused store called Best Buy, or a large grocery store called Stop & Shop, they would probably get calls. Inching closer to actual infringement, South Park episodes often use actual store names instead of making up fake ones, but they use made-up logos, to make it clear that there's no actual connection. If they used the real logos, they'd be in trouble.

This stuff happens a lot in craft beer, too. The makers of "Breaking Bud" were sued due to its obvious similarity to Breaking Bad, including a logo that used the periodic table theme. They had to change the logo, but not the name. Since collaborations between brands and breweries are quite common, it's reasonable to think that consumers might think it's an officially sponsored tie-in rather than just a pun and a tribute.

Anyway, I still think there's a lot of BS in this lawsuit, but there's a lot of gray area which, as many have already pointed out, means there's a good chance the developers won't really have the resources to mount a strong defense. However, if they change some of the graphical aspects, that might be enough to placate the lawyers without changing the name.

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747

Sir Lemming posted:

RE: Trademark law. They have a better case than a lot of you think. Trademark doesn't literally mean "we claim to own the words 'iron maiden' now, even though it's a thing from medieval times"

It's not a thing from medieval time actually. It was invented in the 1800s specifically to make it seem like progress was happening. What did exist in medieval times were variants on the pillory where the body was encased in a barrel, but while uncomfortable and humiliating these things were not designed to maim or kill and they had no spikes inside.

Nokiaman
Mar 2, 2013

Zaphod42 posted:

Remember when Bethesda sued Notch because Scrolls was kinda like Elder scrolls?

Nobody, not nobody I've talked to even calls them elder scrolls games. They just call them "Skyrim" or "Oblivion"

You have that wrong. Notch wanted to trademark the word "Scrolls" and Bethesda didn't let him.

Nokiaman fucked around with this message at 15:23 on May 31, 2019

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



I'm in the middle of the 6th level of Sigil, and I have to say... it isn't that hard. Or maybe there is a bigger difference than usual between HMP and UV (I'm playing it in HMP). With all the gggguy saying it was so hard and bullshitty and frustrating, and civvie saying it was best in HMP, I thought it was going to be super hard.
I'm comparing it against other wads played in HMP, mind you, like AA or GS2.

koren
Sep 7, 2003

Play on uv from a pistol start for each map and it's 'hard' in the worst way.

Good soup!
Nov 2, 2010

Sigil owns

Glagha
Oct 13, 2008

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAaaAAAaaAAaAA
AAAAAAAaAAAAAaaAAA
AAAA
AaAAaaA
AAaaAAAAaaaAAAAAAA
AaaAaaAAAaaaaaAA

As Civvie pointed out there is definitely a much larger than usual difficulty gap between HMP and UV. UV is very stingy with resources, HMP is much gentler and more reasonable and probably the intended experience. Save UV for a second playthrough.

Lord Lambeth
Dec 7, 2011


Is Blood: Fresh Supply worth a purchase now? did the last patch fix the problems that people had with the game?

Gaspy Conana
Aug 1, 2004

this clown loves you
Seems they've fixed most major problems. I haven't had any trouble with it myself and I'm in Episode 2.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Glagha posted:

As Civvie pointed out there is definitely a much larger than usual difficulty gap between HMP and UV. UV is very stingy with resources, HMP is much gentler and more reasonable and probably the intended experience. Save UV for a second playthrough.

I was going to write that, even RPS Dominic notes about it:

quote:

...but the regular single-player levels are excellent, and offer radically different experiences on Normal (Hurt Me Plenty) and Hard (Ultra-Violence) difficulties, making it well worth two trips.
On Normal, Sigil is playfully designed, and not especially tough. It establishes its own visual language early,
...
Ultra-Violence mode ups the ante. You’ve got the same amount of ammo, but more Cacodemons and Barons to contend with. Several levels now have Cyberdemons stomping around, which you absolutely will not have the ammo to fight, so don’t even try. Treat them like noisy rocket turrets, and keep moving. Use those berserk packs to punch out demons, chainsaws on lone Cacodemons, conserve every shot you have and search for secrets. While not as brutal as some fan-made Doom campaigns (Sunder springs to mind), it’s a tough workout, even for experienced players.

I don't know if HMP is the 'intended experience'. I think he just designed UV that way for the fans, who he knows have been playing Doom for >20 years and normal vanilla UV experience isn't really that hard for them. But he knew 'normal' people needed a lower difficulty, I think it's that point where he overreacted a bit, and made a gap in difficulty between HMP and UV larger than usual.

I finished it. 80 minutes of play (I didn't scoured the levels searching secrets, nor I found the secret level). The latter half of the episode was pretty good.

Levitate
Sep 30, 2005

randy newman voice

YOU'VE GOT A LAFRENIÈRE IN ME

Sir Lemming posted:

Anyway, I still think there's a lot of BS in this lawsuit, but there's a lot of gray area which, as many have already pointed out, means there's a good chance the developers won't really have the resources to mount a strong defense. However, if they change some of the graphical aspects, that might be enough to placate the lawyers without changing the name.

I think they very intentionally used the name "Ion Maiden" as a reference to Iron Mainden and the kind of metal logo script is also a reference to that so I wouldn't be surprised if they're up poo poo creek when it comes to those things, but it seems completely insane and bullshit that they're getting sued for $2 mill in damages and there's all the stuff about the bombshell logo looking like Eddie and people confusing the game with the band name and all that. Maybe that's all a way for them to be like "if you change the name we'll drop all these threats and won't make you pay us $2 mill!" but it seems heavy handed and lovely

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



ICARUSLIV3S take on Sigil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obMeYa4-AE4

edit: I wonder, are people complaining of ammo trying to do 100% kills? You can always avoid the monsters in the last room, no need to kill the barons :P.

Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 19:10 on May 31, 2019

Malcolm Excellent
May 20, 2007

Buglord
Where is my si666il BIG BOX!?

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

Fallen Rib
Speaking of HMP vs UV, which should I start Eviternity on? For a long time I took UV as the 'normal' difficulty for Doom and Doom WADs.

While I am here, this is something that I always wondered: I understand that doom levels are broken down into polygon segs in order to do its rendering. How are segs generated, however? Is it up to the level creator, or does the level editor or engine do it automatically?

koren
Sep 7, 2003

Play on uv and if you find it too hard switch down to hmp. It's not a very difficult set for the most part.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.

Sigil on UV is challenging, but nothing you can't handle if you managed to beat Thy Flesh Consumed. Which, if you're the kind of person still excited about Doom 1 content in 2019, you probably did.

timn
Mar 16, 2010

Levitate posted:

Maybe that's all a way for them to be like "if you change the name we'll drop all these threats and won't make you pay us $2 mill!" but it seems heavy handed and lovely

I think it's this for sure. The only thing that actually matters is the name, but they'll make up a bunch of other stuff to try to make their case look stronger and improve their odds of getting the thing they actually want. At the end of the day I think the devs will come out of this unscathed other than changing the name, though it's admittedly frustrating that there's so much smoke and mirrors and adversarial behavior in the process.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Unlucky7 posted:

Speaking of HMP vs UV, which should I start Eviternity on? For a long time I took UV as the 'normal' difficulty for Doom and Doom WADs.



One of the things I liked from Eviternity is the measured, composed difficulty, as lots of modern megaWads go a bit crazy in that regard, so if you have a good amount of experience with UV being 'normal' to you, you won't a problem with UV here.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem
I play everything on HMP or its equivalent and I'm not gonna stop now!

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



I played Sigil with free mouselook and no autoaim, sue me Romero!

Malcolm Excellent
May 20, 2007

Buglord
Can't wait to jump around the maps like skulltag God always intended

treat
Jul 24, 2008

by the sex ghost

Turin Turambar posted:

edit: I wonder, are people complaining of ammo trying to do 100% kills? You can always avoid the monsters in the last room, no need to kill the barons :P.

I see what you're saying and I can imagine how that might work but I can't understand not shooting the monster when I see it.

Unlucky7
Jul 11, 2006

Fallen Rib
I play with wasd movement #DoomCrimes

chocolateTHUNDER
Jul 19, 2008

GIVE ME ALL YOUR FREE AGENTS

ALL OF THEM

Lord Lambeth posted:

Is Blood: Fresh Supply worth a purchase now? did the last patch fix the problems that people had with the game?

It owns.

Johnny Joestar
Oct 21, 2010

Don't shoot him?

...
...




Unlucky7 posted:

Speaking of HMP vs UV, which should I start Eviternity on? For a long time I took UV as the 'normal' difficulty for Doom and Doom WADs.

While I am here, this is something that I always wondered: I understand that doom levels are broken down into polygon segs in order to do its rendering. How are segs generated, however? Is it up to the level creator, or does the level editor or engine do it automatically?

i've been pretty fine on UV, most of the difficulty is basically 'can you handle this situation?' more than scrounging for ammo or making you pistol a baron to death or whatever the gently caress. they give you plenty of ammo, you just gotta live.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



treat posted:

I see what you're saying and I can imagine how that might work but I can't understand not shooting the monster when I see it.

I usually support that point of view, but when they are Barons and you only have the normal shotgun and the exit is 5 mts away, I will make an exception. It's boring to fire at him 15 times until he dies.

In reality this is why Doom 2 is the standard base for all things Doom, and not Doom 1. You have more options. In D2 you would have the SS to alleviate the 'grind' against tough enemies, or alternatively, the designer would put Knights and not Barons if he only has provided low level weapons to the player.

Convex
Aug 19, 2010

Lord Lambeth posted:

Is Blood: Fresh Supply worth a purchase now? did the last patch fix the problems that people had with the game?

They are getting down to fixing pretty obscure bugs at this point, certainly ones that don't affect regular gameplay at all. Some of them have even turned out to be intended DOS game behaviour!

I'd say pick it up, it runs really well and having a stutter-free experience really makes the difference between this and the other source ports.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

Turin Turambar posted:

In reality this is why Doom 2 is the standard base for all things Doom, and not Doom 1. You have more options. In D2 you would have the SS to alleviate the 'grind' against tough enemies, or alternatively, the designer would put Knights and not Barons if he only has provided low level weapons to the player.
There's no mod that ports Doom 2 content to Doom 1, is there? Guessing not, that'd be weird.

Convex
Aug 19, 2010

Mordja posted:

There's no mod that ports Doom 2 content to Doom 1, is there? Guessing not, that'd be weird.

The PS1 port kinda did this. There's a mod for Doom II that recreates it here: https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/57957-psx-doomfinal-doom-tc-version-2135-now-released/

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch
i think the closest is running doom 1 as a doom 2 pwad and cheating to get the super shotty + monster randomizer mod

Instruction Manuel
May 15, 2007

Yes, it is what it looks like!

Turin Turambar posted:


edit: I wonder, are people complaining of ammo trying to do 100% kills? You can always avoid the monsters in the last room, no need to kill the barons :P.

gross

Shadow Hog
Feb 23, 2014

Avatar by Jon Davies
I'm mildly ashamed to admit I let the Cyberdemon live on E5M9, but in my defense I tried killing him with a plasma rifle but the space was so cramped that I just ate splash damage from dodged shots and died like a chump.

This was on HMP, so the earlier Cyberdemons... weren't. Watching videos after completing it did explain why there were teleporters into nearby lava in E5M5, though. Those seemed exceedingly pointless and cruel without the Cybies to explain their presence.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Shadow Hog posted:

I'm mildly ashamed to admit I let the Cyberdemon live on E5M9, but in my defense I tried killing him with a plasma rifle but the space was so cramped that I just ate splash damage from dodged shots and died like a chump.

This was on HMP, so the earlier Cyberdemons... weren't. Watching videos after completing it did explain why there were teleporters into nearby lava in E5M5, though. Those seemed exceedingly pointless and cruel without the Cybies to explain their presence.

You didn't take the BFG on the previous level?

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Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Oxygenpoisoning posted:

I never knew this existed. The only rock band video
games I remember are the previously mentioned Aerosmith game and Kiss Psycho Circus, which I kind of liked, despite it being incredibly flawed.

Off the top of my head, there was also the Journey arcade game, Moonwalker, and the 50 Cent games, a Thompson Twins Game (only through old internet comedy articles), and some Wu-Tang fighting games (found out about them from Best Friends). Looking at Wikipedia I forgot or didn't know about Devo, Franky Goes to Hollywood, and Kriss Kross having games.

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