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I always took it as Dragonstone was the hereditary seat of the heir apparent. Robert gave it to Stannis to be nice and proper but it was a shithole compared to Storms End. Stannis was lovely about it since Renly got Storms End and Robert has kids, so technically he should have been sent back and Joff given Dragonstone but that never happened so he’s just bitter about it.
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Jun 1, 2019 19:43
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violent sex idiot posted:he decides he should be king because the most powerful lord in the kingdom says "ill make you king" and he would have won if stan didnt gank him Some vestige of legitimacy is desirable though. A throne claimed purely by "Might makes right" has no foundation (unless you have dragons)
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Jun 1, 2019 19:59
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PupsOfWar posted:renly was 6 at the end of the rebellion, a lil babby Hia rationale in the books for giving Stannis Dragonstone was to make him his heir until he had a son, according to GURM. Though he never states this to Stannis, so Stannis sees it as a slight.
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Jun 1, 2019 20:12
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esperterra posted:Hia rationale in the books for giving Stannis Dragonstone was to make him his heir until he had a son, according to GURM. Though he never states this to Stannis, so Stannis sees it as a slight. Where's that avatar from anyway?
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Jun 1, 2019 20:19
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esperterra posted:Hia rationale in the books for giving Stannis Dragonstone was to make him his heir until he had a son, according to GURM. Though he never states this to Stannis, so Stannis sees it as a slight. It's kind of weird that Stannis goes to Dragonstone after Arryn is poisened. He believes Cersei did it, but he doesn't leave a note or a letter for Ned Stark. He doesn't try to warn his brother or anything. He just flees. But he must know, from years of being lord of Dragonstone, that there's little strength to be gathered there. Why doesn't he sail to the reach or the stormlands and gather allies against the Lanisters? Renly is at court, so he could easily go behind his back and try to gather the vassals to Baratheon but he just... sulks on Dragonstone basically.
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Jun 1, 2019 20:22
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because stannis is bound to his honor
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Jun 1, 2019 20:41
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Katt posted:Where's that avatar from anyway? the greatest show ever made aka Revolutionary Girl Utena
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Jun 1, 2019 21:17
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esperterra posted:the greatest show ever made aka Revolutionary Girl Utena I'll just see about that....
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Jun 1, 2019 21:19
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esperterra posted:the greatest show ever made aka Revolutionary Girl Utena It is good and gay and the movie is good and you thought you were the only one who could turn into a car?!
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Jun 1, 2019 22:03
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A Typical Goon posted:She explicitly tells Jaimes that's exactly what happened. Jaime's basically tells her she disgusts him and to never talk to him again I knew she cut a side deal, but didn't realize it involved set up for the red wedding.
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Jun 1, 2019 22:15
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kcroy posted:I knew she cut a side deal, but didn't realize it involved set up for the red wedding. I think you're actually right about this, she was working with the Lannister's but didn't know the exact plan, one of her sons dies during the battle and she gets all uppity with Jaime because Tywin didn't give her a heads up (and because Tywin apparently was secretly planning to marry the dead son to his bastard niece)
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Jun 1, 2019 22:36
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Forever I'll wonder why no family didn't want to marry into the Lannister family via Tyrion. Like I get he's a stunted little man but you can play it as FINE I guess we'll take him as a favor to you
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Jun 1, 2019 23:25
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Calaveron posted:Forever I'll wonder why no family didn't want to marry into the Lannister family via Tyrion. Like I get he's a stunted little man but you can play it as FINE I guess we'll take him as a favor to you Tywin may think Tyrion is lower than dirt and still not allow one of his heirs to marry the first opportunists to try their luck because that'd be demeaning the family name. Also wasn't Tyrion relatively isolated from most of the court poo poo prior to the series thanks to his lifestyle and general preferences?
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Jun 1, 2019 23:37
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YaketySass posted:Tywin may think Tyrion is lower than dirt and still not allow one of his heirs to marry the first opportunists to try their luck because that'd be demeaning the family name. Tywin mentions several times where he's looked for a wife for Tyrion and the other family would always go eggghhhh no thanks
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Jun 1, 2019 23:52
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its definitely weird Tyrion ain't married by his age, dwarf or no this same series provides plenty of examples of people marrying literal infants or 90 year old men for money reasons, some opportunistic house shoulda been all aboard the tyrion train particularly given the unsettled state of the Lannister succession ditto Willas also edmure, who does not even have an excuse The only thing I can think of w/r/t tyrion being unmarried is if Tywin, for ego reasons, refuses to consider anything that's not a top-tier sort of match
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Jun 2, 2019 04:22
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They could have made a good schtick about how Tyrion was married on paper the whole time to the daughter of some minor house but they never see one another. Then when Geoffrey divorces Tyrion by royal decree. Tyrion makes an impassioned speech about loyalty to his wife but her name escapes him.
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Jun 2, 2019 09:08
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Katt posted:They could have made a good schtick about how Tyrion was married on paper the whole time to the daughter of some minor house but they never see one another. Then when Geoffrey divorces Tyrion by royal decree. Tyrion makes an impassioned speech about loyalty to his wife but her name escapes him. That's pretty good actually
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Jun 2, 2019 09:37
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like i can definitely believe that tyrion might've been the subject of a lot of lesser marriage offers (from like 3rd-tier houses, or 3rd/4th daughters of more significant houses) that tywin simply refused to consider out of spite spite for tyrion and spite for anyone who would make the offer the most we know is that the royces turned down an offer, but the royces are exactly the type of house that would turn down an otherwise advantageous match for reasons of pride or prestige PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jun 2, 2019 |
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Jun 2, 2019 19:30
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Tyrion asked for a job and Twain gave him the management of the sewers. He didn’t give a poo poo about him and was disappointed in him from birth. He wouldn’t have used him as a marriage proposal even if it was insanely advantageous to him.
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Jun 2, 2019 19:59
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Up until Jaime joined the Kingsguard, Tywin prob refused to marry Tyrion off. After that I can imagine him making some plays to marry Tyrion off but being incredibly picky/prideful and never settling on anything til the Sansa opportunity arose.
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Jun 2, 2019 21:14
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Did anyone make a joke about Beric Dondarrion beric-bera-barricading the hallway?
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Jun 2, 2019 21:29
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Skratchez posted:Did anyone make a joke about Beric Dondarrion beric-bera-barricading the hallway? We're far too highbrow for that 
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Jun 2, 2019 21:48
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Calaveron posted:Forever I'll wonder why no family didn't want to marry into the Lannister family via Tyrion. Like I get he's a stunted little man but you can play it as FINE I guess we'll take him as a favor to you Unlike in the TV show, book Tyrion is hideously ugly too.
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Jun 3, 2019 03:34
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Evil Fluffy posted:Unlike in the TV show, book Tyrion is hideously ugly too. And the voice of the lucky charms mascot.
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Jun 3, 2019 06:46
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I recall Tywin admitting a bit that he didn't make any efforts to find a wife for Tyrion pre-Sana, and even admitting that that negligence on his part contributed to his whoring. This was in the same conversation where he informed Tyrion he'd be marrying Sansa
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Jun 3, 2019 06:54
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Stannis as a character is pretty similar to the Roman Emperor Tiberius, and I think GRRM himself said Stannis was inspired by him. Its not exactly 1:1, but you can see similarities. PupsOfWar posted:its definitely weird Tyrion ain't married by his age, dwarf or no I still think GRRM has people like 5-10 years too young in the setting to really make sense, aging everyone up in the show was a good move imo. However yeah, I never understood how I assume a 30 something Edmure was not married before the books starts, considering Hoster married his daughters off young, and then tried to marry off his gay brother multiple times.
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Jun 3, 2019 07:32
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hell yeah always down 4 extensive tully chat Jack2142 posted:
yeah the edmure situation is frankly bizarre, especially given the lack of other Tully heirs Tyrion being unmarried is weird, but as we've discussed there are various reasons for it. Arianne being unmarried would be weird, but there's a whole plot that explains why she is still single. Willas being unmarried is weird, but Willas has 2 healthy younger brothers and a whole passel of cousins. With Edmure, the excuse seems to be just "Oh, that Edmure, so irresponsible" as if Hoster would leave it up to him. the Blackfish's sexuality would be no impediment to marriage in Hoster's book, since its westeros and it's assumed marriages are done for heir-production and politics (and obviously gay and ace people have been getting hetero married and producing children for thousands of years), but it at least provides a bit of explanation for why Brynden would try to avoid it. Edmure however appears to be neither ace nor gay - he's reputed as a great womanizer, and seems to get real hornt up for our girl Roslin - so idk what's up "don't want to be tied down to one woman!" doesn't make sense the way it does for womanizer types irl, partly because this stuff is ultimately up to Hoster, partly because it's the norm in westeros for married aristocrats to have mistresses and lovers, and to patronize sex workers i think it's just one of those things that gets established real early on in the series that GRRM didn't think through PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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Jun 3, 2019 08:18
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PupsOfWar posted:the Blackfish's sexuality would be no impediment to marriage in Hoster's book, since its westeros and it's assumed marriages are done for heir-production and politics (and obviously gay and ace people have been getting hetero married and producing children for thousands of years), but it at least provides a bit of explanation for why Brynden would try to avoid it. I think it was less Brynden avoiding it and more Blackfish refusing to let him.
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Jun 3, 2019 08:38
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Blackfish is gay in the books?
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Jun 3, 2019 09:01
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banned from Starbucks posted:Blackfish is gay in the books? not as gay as joncon
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Jun 3, 2019 09:21
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banned from Starbucks posted:Blackfish is gay in the books? Yeah, in the original manuscript they called him TheBrownFish and they made some joke about "Fishing for brown trout", but editor nixed it
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Jun 3, 2019 09:30
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banned from Starbucks posted:Blackfish is gay in the books? I don't think there's really any indication, either way, it's just a theory to explain why he wouldn't get married. But Loras/Renly was pretty drat subtle until later books, and even the hints that Cersei is constantly dropping are really inferences.
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Jun 3, 2019 09:30
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i'd best not see any of you reprobates tryin to gently caress up my blackfish/barristan slashdad fan theory OTP by pointing out there is no textual evidence for the blackfish being gay
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Jun 3, 2019 09:31
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PupsOfWar posted:i'd best not see any of you reprobates tryin to gently caress up my blackfish/barristan slashdad fan theory OTP by pointing out there is no textual evidence for the blackfish being gay There's no textual evidence against it.
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Jun 3, 2019 09:33
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UnlimitedSpessmans posted:not as gay as joncon I keep reading this as joycon and wondering what Nintendo has to do with it. About joycon: while i'm curious and enjoy where the story is going with him and young griff, when he was first "unmasked" my reaction was "who?" instead of "oh poo poo no way!" I'm assuming the latter was GRRM's intention?
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Jun 3, 2019 15:47
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I'm pretty sure 100% of the audience reacted with either "Who?" or " another useless sideplot?"
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Jun 3, 2019 15:54
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I always figured Tyrion not being married had to do with Tywin considering him a black mark on the house. Remember he hated Tyrion so much he gave him the job of basically running Casterly Rock's sewer system. Tyrion not being married (and Tywin himself not re-marrying after Joanna died) also shows that Tywin isn't 100% dedicated to House Lannister like he tries to claim. If he put his house before everything he would have re-married after Joanna died. Marriage is such a powerful tool in feudal society and Tywin is weakening House Lannister by not getting married. I think he doesn't get married again because he really did love Joanna. Him marrying her is mentioned as one of the few times where he smiled in his life. His hatred of Tyrion isn't just based on Tyrion being an embarrassment but is also based on Tyrion killing Joanna via childbirth. Tywin fancies himself a selfless automaton for House Lannister but in the end he's just as prideful and selfish as he accuses his children of being.
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Jun 3, 2019 15:56
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Ginette Reno posted:I always figured Tyrion not being married had to do with Tywin considering him a black mark on the house. Remember he hated Tyrion so much he gave him the job of basically running Casterly Rock's sewer system. What drains does a medieval castle even have? They don't have internal plumbing afaik. They just dump stuff outside somewhere. So what is he even talking about the drains.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:26
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its a big fuckin castle built into a mountain in notengland so storm drains id say. also control of a mill is generally one of the large wealth generators of a feudal lord and they could be powered by water i guess?
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Jun 3, 2019 16:38
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I was just thinking about it because my friend is listening to the audiobooks, but I just realized Roy Dotrice is dead. So the Mountain That Doesn't Write has denied his audience his sweet sweet narration.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:41
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