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The Only Sense Online author watches games on Twitch to get ideas to steal. Some of them have really obvious pedigrees— in one part, enemies which accidentally finish off other enemies turn into stronger versions of themselves, which is right out of Mysterious Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer. I remember this because they said they were fascinated by Crypt of the Necrodancer and wanted to put it in, but couldn't figure out a way for a dance game to be compelling in a novel at all. e: I realize I look like a douche for putting game titles in italics but gently caress it, I like the way it looks nrook fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jun 4, 2019 |
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Jun 4, 2019 22:58
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parts of oso seem like they'd make for a fun game. not the crafting, of course. god no. but the class/skill system seems like it would work, and it's pretty similar to many other games.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:21
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While not an isekai I'm expecting to be good, someone finally took a crack at a Demon's Souls isekai.
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Jun 4, 2019 23:36
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Isekai Quartet continues to be amazing with this weeks episode. Now that I've watched Tanyas show I understand all the characters. I really wish the episodes were longer. The writers are doing an incredible job of blending everything together.
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Jun 5, 2019 04:27
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Faraway Paladin continued to be the best Isekai, though it doesn't use its isekai elements for anything really. However it does use emotions well.
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Jun 5, 2019 06:07
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I'm the person who gets a chance to go 10 years back in time after playing a bunch of WoW and decides "I know how I will use this amazing, unprecedented opportunity - I will play WoW again." There's something deeply depressing about that being a person's fantasy. Like, even the "going back in time and owning my school bullies" fantasies are easier to understand.
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Jun 5, 2019 06:59
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Ytlaya posted:I'm the person who gets a chance to go 10 years back in time after playing a bunch of WoW and decides "I know how I will use this amazing, unprecedented opportunity - I will play WoW again." Worse yet, none of them are even remotely near launch WoW in terms of accessibility. I think part of it is that newer MMOs are not really open for the feats of ingenuity that lead to the sort of hilarity and shenanigans that older MMOs do. Part of this is grinding, meaning they can handwave it and the protagonist or antagonist put x amount of effort and have an advantage. Lack of good balance means that this extra effort may not end up mattering with the right cards to play. You rarely get games like Age of Wushu these days. Some of the open world MMOs could probably qualify as they encourage PVP but I doubt they're ripe for abuse. It's just easier to stack the elements that makes for dramatic MMO elements with older MMOs. The problem is that even with the ideal lineup of story elements for dramatic MMO action, you still need to be a decent writer to pull it off. It's a disconnect where reality can be unrealistic and vice-versa. The King's Avatar has a lot of these for instance. It doesn't make sense but the writer manages to pull it off because it's more about the esports community interactions than the specific game mechanics. It tries to evoke the drama to fights like what you'd see in the fighting game community but an individual round can easily last tens of minutes. It works out despite it being a bit ridiculous that these pros are playing with such intensity for upwards of twenty minutes sometimes. Why? Because it's basically describing the actions of the players, reactions of the audience, commentary from the commentators, as well as the chatter between the dueling players all at once. Rather than cram all that action into a tiny span of time, as some xianxia do, it's stretching it out. The shitton of things happening at once is easier to digest if the author doesn't have to remind you that all that took place within 10 seconds!
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Jun 5, 2019 07:16
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KittyEmpress posted:Faraway Paladin continued to be the best Isekai, though it doesn't use its isekai elements for anything really. I think it mainly uses its isekai elements to shape the emotions. Will has had two lifetimes of experience, and had severe, chronic depression for one of them. It absolutely means he has a different perspective on life from most people.
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Jun 5, 2019 08:41
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KittyEmpress posted:Faraway Paladin continued to be the best Isekai, though it doesn't use its isekai elements for anything really.
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Jun 5, 2019 10:58
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Argas posted:Poorly designed MMOs are unfortunately the norm. My favorite isekai Bad Game is still Nekomimi Neko Offline. It's not only the worst mmo-like imaginable, its also single player and the devs were not only the worst programmers of all time but also intentionally sadistic.
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Jun 5, 2019 16:59
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Argas posted:Rather than cram all that action into a tiny span of time, as some xianxia do, it's stretching it out. The shitton of things happening at once is easier to digest if the author doesn't have to remind you that all that took place within 10 seconds! This took an instant to describe, but it all happened in a very long time!
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Jun 5, 2019 18:20
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Nihilarian posted:Faraway Paladin integrates the resurrection aspect of isekai into its cosmology, and Will's memory of his past life directly informs his values and faith, explicitly leading him to reject the god of undead and instead become a follower of the goddess of death. Unless "isekai elements" is shorthand for "invents soap to get rich" this statement is pretty baffling to me You could easily have the exact same story with no real references to his isekai past. It mostly served as set up for why he loved his loving family so much, and why he was so quick to catch on to everything as a child. While his choice of goddess was in part chosen because he felt comfort with reincarnation and the cycle, his otherworld experiences rarely come up past the first few chapters. Compared to every other Isekai I've ever read, he doesn't even remember who he used to be in detail, just that he was depressed, that everyone hated him, and that he died. The isekai elements are super small and not at all prominent. He's not 'a good person because he's from a more morally forward society', he's a 'a good person because he had great undead parents'. He's not 'a great swordsman and magician because he was born with cheat powers', he's 'a great swordsman and magician because he was raised by a great swordsman and a great magician'. His faith is in part strengthened by his previous experiences, but a lot of it also comes from the fact that his mother was one of the most faith filled people in the world.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:55
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I like Paladin cuz he so pious, it's cute. I guess it's easy to be pious when god will actually talk to you. I feel bad for the god of undeath though. He might be shortsighted but he's got a point. And yet everyone shits all over him.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:24
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KittyEmpress posted:You could easily have the exact same story with no real references to his isekai past. It mostly served as set up for why he loved his loving family so much, and why he was so quick to catch on to everything as a child. While his choice of goddess was in part chosen because he felt comfort with reincarnation and the cycle, his otherworld experiences rarely come up past the first few chapters. a lot of isekai stories do this actually, they just tack on a "btw i'm from japan" and do nothing else with that Ytlaya posted:I'm the person who gets a chance to go 10 years back in time after playing a bunch of WoW and decides "I know how I will use this amazing, unprecedented opportunity - I will play WoW again." yeah the absolute dumbest webnovel genre isn't the power fantasy ones, it's the MMO power fantasy ones note I did not say worst, just dumbest
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Jun 5, 2019 19:26
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when the goddess of death asks him why he rejected the offer of undeath, he literally says with his mouth that it was because of his memories of his past life yeah, the story would work without the isekai elements, as long as you completely rewrote his character?
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Jun 5, 2019 19:52
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Nihilarian posted:when the goddess of death asks him why he rejected the offer of undeath, he literally says with his mouth that it was because of his memories of his past life He was a native of the land who died and reincarnated. Done. Him not being from that world has no bearing on his persona in any meaningful way that I've noticed or really been explored in any meaningful capacity. You could easily just rewrite it so that he was a native of the world who reincarnated and call it a day and nothing would really be different. It's a great loving story, but lets not pretend the entire isekai thing wasn't just tacked on there to appeal to that specific crowd and be placed as part of that genre.
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Jun 5, 2019 20:27
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doomrider7 posted:He was a native of the land who died and reincarnated. Done. Him not being from that world has no bearing on his persona in any meaningful way that I've noticed or really been explored in any meaningful capacity. You could easily just rewrite it so that he was a native of the world who reincarnated and call it a day and nothing would really be different. It's a great loving story, but lets not pretend the entire isekai thing wasn't just tacked on there to appeal to that specific crowd and be placed as part of that genre. Yeah, this is more what I mean. Him being originally "From another world" has no bearing on his personality. Him being reborn in general does, but there is nothing in it that is actually Isekai-y or where the Isekai matters.
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Jun 5, 2019 22:28
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KittyEmpress posted:Yeah, this is more what I mean. Him being originally "From another world" has no bearing on his personality. Him being reborn in general does, but there is nothing in it that is actually Isekai-y or where the Isekai matters. My cynical hypothesis is that the isekai thing was added on as a form of escapist fantasy. The part about "he was depressed, that everyone hated him, and that he died" pretty much describes every hikkikomori protagonist or the large bulk of them so having him be like this falls into the sphere of escapism in wanting to escape to a new world; and while they're undead, you're still being lovingly raised by the the greatest swordman(now a skelly), the greatest wizard(now a ghost), and the greatest priestess(mummy? That's what she's called in the manga scans I've read). If you're a Japanese kid who falls into that plentiful "depressed, everyone hates you" mindset, that sounds dope as loving hell no matter how you wanna slice that one and having the protagonist be from OUR world makes the sell even easier. This is again just my hypothesis and who knows, maybe the author will do something with it later on.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:52
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doomrider7 posted:My cynical hypothesis is that the isekai thing was added on as a form of escapist fantasy. The part about "he was depressed, that everyone hated him, and that he died" pretty much describes every hikkikomori protagonist or the large bulk of them so having him be like this falls into the sphere of escapism in wanting to escape to a new world; and while they're undead, you're still being lovingly raised by the the greatest swordman(now a skelly), the greatest wizard(now a ghost), and the greatest priestess(mummy? That's what she's called in the manga scans I've read). If you're a Japanese kid who falls into that plentiful "depressed, everyone hates you" mindset, that sounds dope as loving hell no matter how you wanna slice that one and having the protagonist be from OUR world makes the sell even easier. This is again just my hypothesis and who knows, maybe the author will do something with it later on. More cynically, it could be isekai just because that's currently trendy. I've read a few other series where I wondered if the Isekai element was just bolted onto a story the author already wanted to tell.
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Jun 6, 2019 00:26
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Faraway Paladin being an escapist fantasy for losers isn't subtext, its text. there's nothing cynical about it, thats 100% the point, and the impact of the story would change massively if his previous life was in the same world, even if he was still a loser escapism is like the #2 purpose for isekais to begin with (#1 being power fantasy)
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Jun 6, 2019 00:35
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Or of course, a lot of these folks are amateur writers, right? Combine that with a serial format, and it’s easy to imagine somebody writing an isekai story only to realize a few chapters in that they don’t actually care about the fish-out-of-water elements.
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Jun 6, 2019 00:47
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Nihilarian posted:Faraway Paladin being an escapist fantasy for losers isn't subtext, its text. there's nothing cynical about it, thats 100% the point, and the impact of the story would change massively if his previous life was in the same world, even if he was still a loser I think the thing that bugs me about isekai is that I actually really love escapism, but excessive power fantasy elements utterly ruin it, at least if taken to anywhere near the level most of these stories do. The English-language Xianxia web novel (or rather "quest") Forge of Destiny is basically what I wish all of these stories were actually like; a story about a character gradually becoming stronger and meeting people/having fun adventures in a fantasy world. The main character is strong, but within reason and to an extent that doesn't exceed other very talented characters in the same setting. Other characters don't just exist for the sake of massaging the protagonist's ego or being comically evil foils (well, except for Huang Da I guess). The Cradle books are also a good example. I like the whole "very long story with a super extended and dramatic power progression" element, but in practice most stories that include that involve the protagonist becoming ludicrously overpowered very fast. Yinlock posted:yeah the absolute dumbest webnovel genre isn't the power fantasy ones, it's the MMO power fantasy ones The thing that gets me about the MMO ones is....why not just make it a regular isekai? Like, they usually spend all their time in the game, so why not have them actually go to a fantasy world? Argas posted:Worse yet, none of them are even remotely near launch WoW in terms of accessibility. Yeah; I didn't play a lot of MMOs when I was younger, but I did WoW as it was released in college and a couple friends and I had one cool experience where we figured out how to glitch into an area and were apparently one of the only people to do so (because you couldn't find any information or pictures online about it, so it wasn't some publicly discovered thing). Specifically, we found a path that you could walk through/up mountains to reach Ahn'Qiraj a while before it was actually released. We were able to walk through the empty temple and stuff (which was not actually populated with any mobs), and it was actually pretty fun.
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Jun 6, 2019 02:29
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because if they went to a fantasy world, then they wouldn't be rich and famous in modern china. that's the whole point.
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Jun 6, 2019 02:34
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The thing to remember about isekai as escapist fantasy is why so many of them have the video game-like statuses, levels, experience points, etc. For a lot of the younger generations, recreation=video games and video games= fantasy rpgs, especially Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter, which are the main places tropes like the Hero/Demon King and the Adventurer/Hunter's Guild originate. So the main character going to another world isn't so much about them dying so much as it is about them being freed from the pressures of modern life, be that school or work, and instead they're basically allowed to live in a videogame and engage in their favorite hobby all day every day. The cross-section of people this escapist fantasy appeals to (middle-high schoolers, young professionals who've entered the workforce just long enough to become disillusioned), coincides with the target audience for these stories. That's why you also get these stories about people playing VRMMOs. They're just cutting out the middleman and depicting people spending all their time playing games, rather than going the roundabout way and setting up an isekai scenario that's basically the same thing. The games in question are themselves a sort of fantasy, where full dive VR technology is possible, the games are full of stuff to explore instead of being datamined and solved as soon as they update, and frequently they'll even have the VRMMO speed up time for the player, letting the characters engage in leisure for days at a time while still attending work/school. On that note, someday I'd like to see someone do a more realistic cyberpunk take on those near-future VRMMO worlds, and address the issue that if they have that sort of ability to accelerate time in VR, all it will mean is that people have to spend 10,000 hours a week working in VR offices accelerated to the max.
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Jun 6, 2019 03:54
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Bremen posted:More cynically, it could be isekai just because that's currently trendy. I've read a few other series where I wondered if the Isekai element was just bolted onto a story the author already wanted to tell. It's very much so true that some of these stories use isekai elements in the initial chapters to justify using the isekai tag on their works in order to abuse whatever algorithm the website the web novel is written on and boost their visibility.
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Jun 6, 2019 04:53
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The videogame stuff is also a very easy writing crutch. How do I show my character has grown stronger? Give them a level up ding and a new skill. How do I show the protagonist learning about their opponent? They just look at them and a status screen pops up, introducing the new character without any further effort. It's the same with the reincarnation. How do I get my audience to empathise with my protagonist? My protagonist is a young Japanese man with all of the same perspectives and cultural touchstones as the reader, and has died and been reincarnated in a fantasy world.
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Jun 6, 2019 07:26
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Red Bones posted:The videogame stuff is also a very easy writing crutch. How do I show my character has grown stronger? Give them a level up ding and a new skill. How do I show the protagonist learning about their opponent? They just look at them and a status screen pops up, introducing the new character without any further effort. It's the same with the reincarnation. How do I get my audience to empathise with my protagonist? My protagonist is a young Japanese man with all of the same perspectives and cultural touchstones as the reader, and has died and been reincarnated in a fantasy world. I don't actually mind any of those as long as they're well executed and implemented. Also, https://mwmtranslations.com/2019/06/06/may-i-ask-for-one-final-thing-01-manga/
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Jun 6, 2019 07:28
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doomrider7 posted:Also, As a single chapter gimmick that was pretty good. Not sure if it'll be able to keep up long term though
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Jun 6, 2019 07:39
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TheFlyingLlama posted:As a single chapter gimmick that was pretty good. Not sure if it'll be able to keep up long term though Yeah someone mentioned that on there. They also touched upon a recurring issues of everyone except the main heroine's friends and general posse being awful terrible people in often times blatant and incompetent ways.
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Jun 6, 2019 07:52
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nrook posted:Or of course, a lot of these folks are amateur writers, right? Combine that with a serial format, and it’s easy to imagine somebody writing an isekai story only to realize a few chapters in that they don’t actually care about the fish-out-of-water elements. Just on Paladin. The author has had writer's block for a couple of years but from the four light novels that have been translated, I think the author wanted to just write a general fantasy novel but needed a hook to get people to read his material. The isekai stuff never really gets discussed in much detail aside from the protagonist being a general nice guy who use to be in a bad place but doesn't ever want to go back there again. Also the third arc feels like he just got through watching a LOTR/Hobbit marathon.
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Jun 6, 2019 13:17
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Red Bones posted:The videogame stuff is also a very easy writing crutch. How do I show my character has grown stronger? Give them a level up ding and a new skill. How do I show the protagonist learning about their opponent? They just look at them and a status screen pops up, introducing the new character without any further effort. It's the same with the reincarnation. How do I get my audience to empathise with my protagonist? My protagonist is a young Japanese man with all of the same perspectives and cultural touchstones as the reader, and has died and been reincarnated in a fantasy world. That's always been my take on pretty much the whole isekai genre. It's just laziness on the part of the author to use the quickest and easiest method to make the protagonist relatable to the audience and also easier to write from the perspective of.
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Jun 6, 2019 15:08
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new Shield Heroine Maple and Sally enter the forest, but theres more than meets the eye. 
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Jun 6, 2019 21:54
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What is the most profitable isekai and why is it Superman?
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Jun 6, 2019 22:10
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RareAcumen posted:What is the most profitable isekai and why is it Superman? Wrong! It's Mario! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises Japanese Isekai likely Slime since it made most profitable media franchises last year.
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Jun 6, 2019 22:48
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i'd always assumed the most successful isekai was SAO, and barring that, probably re:zero
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Jun 6, 2019 22:53
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sunken fleet posted:That's always been my take on pretty much the whole isekai genre. It's just laziness on the part of the author to use the quickest and easiest method to make the protagonist relatable to the audience and also easier to write from the perspective of. I think there's good exceptions, for what it's worth. Bakarina is really great because it's an isekai, because her being reincarnated is essential to the whole premise of the villain of a romance story suddenly gaining self-awareness of her role in the story. Kumo is pretty good at keeping the video game and reincarnation parts of the story as important elements of the plot, and reincarnation also allows the story to bring up the interesting question of what happens to your sense of self if you are a human reincarnated as a wild animal. I think Solo Leveling uses its video game mechanics in an interesting way too, because the hero is placed in a situation where this unknown, omnipotent system is forcing him to complete tasks under threat of death, and it's slowly making him less and less human. I also have a soft spot for Chronicles of Heavenly Demon, which is unashamedly a power fantasy but it's a reincarnation setup where a martial artist is betrayed and killed, and now his reincarnation is out for revenge. They can be used well, I think mostly for weird metafiction or by using reincarnation in a way where the difference between the past and present lives is actually important to the plot.
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Jun 6, 2019 22:59
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doomrider7 posted:Japanese Isekai likely Slime since it made most profitable media franchises last year. The manga does crazy well which makes this quite possible,, tough to say with how much spinoffs Overlord and Konosuba have circulating.
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Jun 7, 2019 00:26
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ninjewtsu posted:i'd always assumed the most successful isekai was SAO, and barring that, probably re:zero I forgot SAO. Hard to say but that's not unlikely with how much it sells in Anime and merch. It's hard to really place. Re:Zero, Overlord, and Konosuba all sell a bit more LN's than Slime(in the case of Overlord, WAY more), but they get massively outclassed in Manga sales with Slime being able to compete with some of the biggest names like Kingdom, TPN, AoT, etc., in terms of overall sales and the Anime only pumped more life to that with increases in merchandise sales, company deals, crossovers with games, it's own gacha game, and the sales of the blurays. The spinoffs also do quite well for themselves often landing within the 20's to 30's in the Top 50 best selling on release with the main being in the Top 10 to Top 3 depending on what's released. @Red Bones Slime actually makes it a point that the reincarnation and Transmigration concepts and getting transported to other worlds play a huge part in the lore and mechanics. LN4 to LN7 start to deal with this MUCH more making the impact this has had on the world a lot more felt doomrider7 fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jun 7, 2019 |
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Jun 7, 2019 02:02
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For all intents and purposes Harry Potter is an isekai.
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Jun 7, 2019 06:54
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The Gamer is too!
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Jun 7, 2019 07:00
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