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Yeah also, all things considered. His offenses were pretty light compared to most abusive parents. Now take a look at that shitstain Aizami from Shokugeki no Soma. That's a prime example of what you're talking about.
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Jun 4, 2019 10:56
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Mulderman posted:Yeah also, all things considered. His offenses were pretty light compared to most abusive parents. endeavor from hero academia is also a particularly lovely case
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Jun 4, 2019 12:21
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Yinlock posted:endeavor from hero academia is also a particularly lovely case Getting to an arc with heavy endeavor focus was what made me lose interest in mha.
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Jun 4, 2019 12:26
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At no point did MHA tell you: No Endeavor only did the awful poo poo he did out of love! You see he actually really cares about his kid! Even Endeavor himself, in his inner monologue mentions he pushed himself and by extension his family this hard because of an unhealthy obsession. I think Shoto said it best: Endeavor, the hero, is an interesting figure. Enji, the person is a piece of poo poo that has only just begun to make amends for all the poo poo he did. And his past actions are hanging like a sword of damocles above his head. I fully expect a future arc where he is settled pretty comfortably in his position as the new Number 1 Hero. Is starting to fix his broken relationship with his family, and Shoto is willing to undergo training with him. Only to have it all come crashing down on him when Dabi unveals his entire backstory and there is not a closet large enough to hold all those skeletons that will pop up then.
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Jun 4, 2019 12:54
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Mulderman posted:At no point did MHA tell you: No Endeavor only did the awful poo poo he did out of love! You see he actually really cares about his kid! eh imo they're clearly angling for a redemption arc and it makes me sad, with him being more or less instantly forgiven by his wife who previously hated him so much that she scarred their youngest son because he looked similar to his father but I'll shut up about this so yet another thread isn't bogged down by endeavorchat
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Jun 4, 2019 13:10
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FMA is still my benchmark for the best reckoning with dad subplot in manga. Arakawa does a great job depicting Hohenheim's complicated relationship with his sons, or lack thereof, and manages the thread the needle of "Your dad had good reasons for doing what he did" BUT "That doesn't invalidate your feelings of abandonment, nor does it magically make everything okay and absolve him of the price you had to pay for his negligence." Honestly, FMA manages to balance a lot of complicated emotional relationships with more tact than I'd expect from most popular media. It's really a stand-out title in that regard.
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Jun 4, 2019 15:08
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Bad Seafood posted:FMA is still my benchmark for the best reckoning with dad subplot in manga. Arakawa does a great job depicting Hohenheim's complicated relationship with his sons, or lack thereof, and manages the thread the needle of "Your dad had good reasons for doing what he did" BUT "That doesn't invalidate your feelings of abandonment, nor does it magically make everything okay and absolve him of the price you had to pay for his negligence." FMA is loving awesome and not drawn-out and almost everything is connected in some way.
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Jun 4, 2019 15:36
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FMA is amazing. And I love how everyone even the seemingly one off chimera's are real developed characters who contribute to things. And are a bunch of good boys once you get to know them.
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Jun 4, 2019 15:38
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Bad Seafood posted:FMA is still my benchmark for the best reckoning with dad subplot in manga. Arakawa does a great job depicting Hohenheim's complicated relationship with his sons, or lack thereof, and manages the thread the needle of "Your dad had good reasons for doing what he did" BUT "That doesn't invalidate your feelings of abandonment, nor does it magically make everything okay and absolve him of the price you had to pay for his negligence."
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Jun 4, 2019 15:38
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Squidster posted:See also Arakawa's handling of Hachiken's dad in Silver Spoon. He is both an incredibly lovely dad, and a father who struggles to express his genuine love for his son. See also Arslan Senki, where Andagoras is, by all accounts, a devoted if somewhat stern father figure.
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Jun 4, 2019 15:59
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Yinlock posted:one of my most hated shounen tropes is the rear end in a top hat Dad Redemption Arc where after a lifetime of emotional abuse they're like "I guess you're not entirely poo poo, sometimes" and everyone fawns over him because he's really such a loving person can't you see I legit love how Mirai Nikki handled this It makes you think you're getting this arc, but nope, dad's still worthless and betrays the MCs at the last second because he's poo poo
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Jun 4, 2019 22:19
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I hadn't noticed it myself, but apparently the Mangaka for Marry Grave put out some thank you pages with some written plot details which were translated a month after that last chapter. link. I missed it, so I figure others may have missed it as well. Otherwise, I'm just opening some old wounds. 
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Jun 5, 2019 09:22
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all this talk about lovely anime dads seems appropriate with the latest sins chapter I can't believe Arthur might do a thing lol who am I kidding he aint doing poo poo
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Jun 5, 2019 12:28
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HerraS posted:all this talk about lovely anime dads seems appropriate with the latest sins chapter He's going to wake up and he will awaken his brilliant magic power. Probably related to chaos somehow since Hawk mama is involved. I think lovely brothers might be more applicable here than lovely dads.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:38
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Yinlock posted:eh imo they're clearly angling for a redemption arc and it makes me sad, with him being more or less instantly forgiven by his wife who previously hated him so much that she scarred their youngest son because he looked similar to his father His wife has not gotten over everything. She is still unwilling to see him. It's a complicated situation, and it's less redemption then atonement. Endeavor made it clear he does plan to ask for or expect forgiveness for his actions.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:His wife has not gotten over everything. She is still unwilling to see him. It's a complicated situation, and it's less redemption then atonement. Endeavor made it clear he does plan to ask for or expect forgiveness for his actions. except there was that chat about "oh he remembered my favorite flower and sent it to me, we should all believe in him and faaarrrtttttt" Yinlock fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 01:25
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The only way it'll end for Endeavor is him being forgiven one way or another. The only way it won't cause a riot in the fanbase is if he dies getting it.
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Jun 6, 2019 01:36
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it's already better than assclass and soma so i don't really care if it continues to progress with the same degree of quality even if it ultimately feels hollow because i don't think a manga can appropriately address this subject when it's just sideplot D in a battle shonen
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Jun 6, 2019 01:39
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Yinlock posted:except there was that chat about "oh he remembered my favorite flower and sent it to me, we should all believe in him and faaarrrtttttt" Yeah, abuse is complicated and Shouto's mom is focusing on the fact that Endeavor remembered flowers. Remember that she never focused her anger on her abusive husband, she directed it towards Shouto. None of the kids agreed with her sentiment that the flowers make it okay. All the Todoroki kids have different feelings about his attempt at changing.
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Jun 6, 2019 02:11
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i'm glad he wasnt outright killed off i dont think he'll survive to the final chapter tho
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Jun 6, 2019 02:19
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I actually haven't read MHA in awhile, it felt like it was on a pretty big downward trend and I wasn't looking forward to it each week. How has it been recently?
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Jun 6, 2019 03:06
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I think it's fine and I'm sure the people who were already super into MHA are enjoying it as much as ever, but I personally reached a point in the story where the "world" of MHA stopped being particularly interesting to me. Now I just think how sort of weird and hosed up it is that it's just sort of expected/assumed that society needs what amounts to a civilian/private police force to maintain itself. I want to read a story about someone with some sort of super OP quirk but wants to be something more mundane like a baker or something. MHA was at its best when it was about the class bonding with each other and I don't think I ever truly got on board with the actual real world "stakes" such as the League of Villains in the plot.
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Jun 6, 2019 03:12
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The people who are into MHA are probably making voodoo dolls of Horikoshi or something lol. I dropped the manga when the league of villains arc started because I absolutely don't give a poo poo about those guys.
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Jun 6, 2019 03:39
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unfortunate for you since it's the best mha's been in a while
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Jun 6, 2019 03:44
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MHA has had the problem of both not being particular interesting to me and making some very questionable narrative choices; issues that have been heavily compounded by it sharing reading space with perhaps one of the strongest periods One Piece has ever had (with occasional appearances by an a loving great HxH arc).
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Jun 6, 2019 03:45
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Twice's recent chapters are incredibly good
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Jun 6, 2019 03:45
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i read mha out of inertia like most wsj things yaiba and chainsawman are the only things i really feel compelled to read
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Jun 6, 2019 03:48
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Oh Snapple! posted:MHA has had the problem of both not being particular interesting to me and making some very questionable narrative choices; issues that have been heavily compounded by it sharing reading space with perhaps one of the strongest periods One Piece has ever had (with occasional appearances by an a loving great HxH arc). In terms of being excited to read anything, I'd say I look forward the most to Kimetsu no Yaiba and The Promised Neverland (even if TPN has never really reached the heights of its first arc ever again). Chainsaw Man is more like waiting for a train wreck because it's been wild/fun so far but Fujimoto seems like he's very capricious about adhering to traditional Shonen Jump formula/tropes for stuff. He's a madman and he may just blow the whole thing up whenever he feels like it. Fabricated fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 03:51
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The current MHA arc has given more development and growth to several of the villains than any of the kids had gotten in like the previous 4 arcs. So it’s definitely been a better read imo.
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Jun 6, 2019 03:54
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dogsicle posted:i read mha out of inertia like most wsj things yeah yaiba is loving great and easily hangs with One Piece for me, largely because it's extremely good at hitting its emotional notes
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Jun 6, 2019 03:54
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poo poo, I'm more invested in watching Shokugeki no Souma finally crash into the ground from the lofty heights it fell from than I am in loving Wano. But that's more out of morbid curiosity because IMO Shokugeki's fall is way more pronounced than even Bleach's- I've never seen a manga go from being generally well-liked, even popular to being essentially reviled like this. Bleach's last arc was kind of a parade of disappointment and everyone kinda realizing that Kubo was simply done with management/editorial at Jump and was suffering physically from the weekly publishing schedule- Shokugeki so Souma didn't fall off because it had to be wrapped up super-quick after introducing a zillion characters and the mangaka was dying, it fell off because it had an arc so bad the writer literally apologized for it on Twitter and then followed up with an arc that was somehow even worse.
Fabricated fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 03:58
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Yinlock posted:except there was that chat about "oh he remembered my favorite flower and sent it to me, we should all believe in him and faaarrrtttttt" All he's trying to do is reach out to his family who has largely written him off going by all of his sons. And his wife still can't stand to be in the same room without having some sort of conniption so to reiterate, he's not being forgiven automatically but he's seeking forgiveness. So I don't know why it's so bad that the guy realizes in his 40s that he was a lovely father and husband and is trying to reach out to his family and rebuild some bridges that he hasn't completely burned yet.
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Jun 6, 2019 04:34
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Call it a swing in the dark but I think it might have something to do with the "was an abusive father and husband" part of that equation.
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Jun 6, 2019 07:21
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Endeavour as we’re introduced to him is basically a super villain who only cared about marriage and children as a eugenics program to show up All Might. He seemingly never really treated his family as people. And it’s just really hard to reconcile that with recent arcs where he is just a terrible husband and father who has realised that in pursuit of power he has hurt everyone close to him and thrown away those he deep down still cared about. The focus arc Endeavour got was actually pretty solid but it doesn’t feel like this is the same dude we were introduced to. And it makes the writing around him come off as awkward and strange.
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Jun 6, 2019 07:41
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ConanThe3rd posted:Call it a swing in the dark but I think it might have something to do with the "was an abusive father and husband" part of that equation. It's a personal thing, but like there are fathers or parents who are not good parents or husbands, who have life events or things that cause them to want to change. It's up to the people they harmed to decide if they want to let them back in, but even if they don't it's not some great affront or all that out of the ordinary for someone to let a family member who seemingly has changed and wants to be better to interact with the family again. I get those that want to completely sever. And have no problem with it. But people can realize how much of a piece of a poo poo they were early on in life and try to make amends.
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Jun 6, 2019 07:44
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Endeavour as we’re introduced to him is basically a super villain who only cared about marriage and children as a eugenics program to show up All Might. He seemingly never really treated his family as people. And it’s just really hard to reconcile that with recent arcs where he is just a terrible husband and father who has realised that in pursuit of power he has hurt everyone close to him and thrown away those he deep down still cared about. My guess is the Author realized they went went too extreme with the character at the start.
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Jun 6, 2019 07:47
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Endeavour as we’re introduced to him is basically a super villain who only cared about marriage and children as a eugenics program to show up All Might. He seemingly never really treated his family as people. And it’s just really hard to reconcile that with recent arcs where he is just a terrible husband and father who has realised that in pursuit of power he has hurt everyone close to him and thrown away those he deep down still cared about. Given the way it's gone down, I have to wonder if Horikoshi realized like the rest of us that Endeavor's initial plan/motivation was monumentally loving stupid. Like, given the danger and stress of Hero-ing, Endeavor had to have known that by the time Todoroki became the #1 Hero that All Might would be dead or retired, right? What did he expect to happen? "All Might!! Behold, I have finally surpassed you! It is my son Shoto who is the #1 Hero now, not you!!!" "Endeavor, I am sixty years old. And I have not been a hero for the last decade. Get a hobby." Of course if All Might hadn't been injured maybe he would've been hero-ing well into his twilight years like Gran Torino is but it is still truly embarassing to think that Endeavor wanted to raise a child to show up a man 2-3 times their age and even more so that he thought All Might would be anything less than psyched about a new young hero. (Up until he realized what Endeavor'd done to make it happen at which point he would probably deck him into deep space.) I've now written entirely too many words about this but it is just such a bad foundation for a character and while unfortunately the damage is already done, I am glad that Horikoshi scrapped it asap to focus on Endeavor's personal struggles and relationship with All Might rather than leaning into the "my strong adult son" angle.
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Jun 6, 2019 07:57
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Dexo posted:My guess is the Author realized they went went too extreme with the character at the start. That’s my read on it too. Same thing happened with Bakugo except he is a kid and also everyone loves him so it was easier to accept.
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Jun 6, 2019 08:11
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One piece is arguably the best it's ever been right now so it's a shame you stopped reading
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Jun 6, 2019 08:42
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I always took Endeavor's arc as him basically getting what he wanted and then realizing it didn't mean jack poo poo, and that it came with a lot of responsibilities on top of him realizing that his image of All Might was a complete fantasy that he tortured his family over. Like, he's still a gigantic piece of poo poo that should die but I think his arc so far has him realizing he probably has shut his own family off to him forever, and that the only thing he can do is try to be a legitimately good hero so they can have a future. It's fine if he wants to be less of a piece of poo poo; it'll just stretch everyone's credulity if his family just takes him back. There's some other shoes to drop there too, like Dabi. Basically we haven't reached peak forgiveness creep yet- we're not quite to the level of Nagisa's mom or Azami or Orochimaru.
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Jun 6, 2019 11:49
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