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SlothfulCobra posted:There's probably enough events that have been rendered defunct by patches and DLC to fill a series of y/a novels. Things like this make many people assume that CK2 was released empty and barebones and it only becomes better later. I'd argue that no Paradox game has ever become significantly better with updates. It's not like there were no plagues or mutilations before Reaper's Due and there were no Council politics before Conclave and there were no Mongol hordes before Horse Lords. Most of the additions are a rework of pre-existing mechanics, usually of something that was simulated with events.
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Jun 5, 2019 09:02
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ilitarist posted:Things like this make many people assume that CK2 was released empty and barebones and it only becomes better later. I'd argue that no Paradox game has ever become significantly better with updates. It's not like there were no plagues or mutilations before Reaper's Due and there were no Council politics before Conclave and there were no Mongol hordes before Horse Lords. Most of the additions are a rework of pre-existing mechanics, usually of something that was simulated with events. I don't follow. You had Christians and Muslims (in some way) at CK2 release. You didn't have Merchant Republics, Nomads, or playable pagans. And even post-Holy Fury pagans are so much better than Old Gods release pagans. There were no factions at CK2 release. Council laws are a big addition, you can't say council politics pre- and post-Conclave were in any way similar, just wait until you have a pretty powerful council and the fuckers forbid you to give out titles. The vanilla tech system was a joke, you were entirely at the mercy of the preordained tech progress path (Italy= high tech growth, Scandinavia= low tech growth). And so on. I'm honestly stumped how anybody can say CK2 did not become significantly better with update.
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Jun 5, 2019 09:13
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It became bigger, broader, more replayable. But I often see people talking about Paradox games as if it's OK for them to be empty for a couple of years amassing DLCs. And it's not like back in 2012 people said give this game three years to amass DLCs, they played it right on release, and I did too, I even started early in beta. You didn't have a lot of playable characters but you still had a lot of start dates (1066 - ~1400 is all playable) and the core experience was all there. Eventually, you might be bored from playing Christians but you still got hundreds of hours from the base game and reading initial reviews and reactions on forums shows that. The biggest improvements to the game probably come in the UI department and UI is still not adequate.
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Jun 5, 2019 09:50
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Just started a new game after buying Conclave, Holy Fury, Monks and Mystics and Reaper's Due. Already had Way of Life, Old Gods and some other music/graphics packs. First thought is that epidemics are annoying. It seems they come around practically once a year and I'm constantly faced with closing the gates and eating the diplomatic hit, or leaving them open and having (important) people get ill and die. From what I can see the only way to combat this is to develop hospitals, but these are hugely expensive even to do in just one county. It's annoying to have extra things I need to spend money on without extra means of actually earning money. On a similar note, though I don't think it's anything to do with the new DLCs, I am fed up of being invaded by Norse fuckers (as a Petty King in England, although I just formed the Kingdom of England last night), just as I'm gearing up to start a war over some new territory or to take one of my vassals down a peg or two, it happens again. Pain in the backside sapping my money and troops when I have other things to be getting on with. I like Conclave and the changes to running the council. It's harder but not in a "spend more money you don't have" sort of way. I'm also a fan of the new music one of the packs has added (not sure which). "The Fifth Crusade" is simply ace. Though "Horns of Hattin and Aftermath" is still my overall favourite.
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Jun 5, 2019 11:44
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Yeah, Reaper's Due was a very... single-minded expansion. So epidemics are a very important part of the game with it. You can also build hospitals but those bad boys would cost you what feels like amount of money you can fully upgrade a city with, and apart from some research and pity they only bring a mysterious sickness resistance.
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Jun 5, 2019 12:53
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After getting back in to this game, crusaders are OP as gently caress. It used to be a crusade was an annoying inconvenience that cost me money, but now I'm gaining insane wealth and prestige from a very small contribution.
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Jun 5, 2019 13:26
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I'm having the first game that I can remember where Catholicism is locked in the Moral Authority death spiral. It's not helped by the AI for the Pope seeming to be stuck in a loop where it calls a Crusade and then doesn't get enough support (I assume because MA is in the toilet) so the Crusade is cancelled, adding to the malus on MA. It's kind of hilarious, because of all the heretic rebellions, and it gives me a new long term project to see if we can haul things up out of the mire again.
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Jun 5, 2019 14:48
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I play pretty modded, but I'm curious if anyone has encountered an issue that's cropped up in my two most recent games. In both games, I've played the Byzantines, and everything seems normal for the first 50 or so years, but, after mending the Schism, my landed sons start revoking titles and just accumulate them to the point where they're like 42/8 on demesne and won't create new vassals.
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Jun 5, 2019 16:07
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ilitarist posted:Yeah, Reaper's Due was a very... single-minded expansion. So epidemics are a very important part of the game with it. You can also build hospitals but those bad boys would cost you what feels like amount of money you can fully upgrade a city with, and apart from some research and pity they only bring a mysterious sickness resistance. hospitals are a strategic investment that basically make a ton of sense if you are coastal and no sense at all if you are inland. at ~50% you can ignore most of the mundane outbreaks like smallpox, consumption, etc because they will frequently skip straight over the county. i still close the gates for camp fever because that's -4 health and will definitely kill most of the people it infects, but most outbreaks you can ignore. ~75% is steel and will resist even the black death. you will never have to close the gates in that county again. now i wonder what you could accomplish if everyone around you had varying levels of depopulation, but you were still booming with multiple castles in one county? 🤔 naturally, this only applies if your capital is at risk of being nailed by diseases on a routine basis. spending thousands of gold to resist the black death and only the black death doesn't make a lot of sense. but if you are coastal and therefore vulnerable to outbreaks, then 3-4k gold to not worry about dozens of outbreaks makes a lot of sense. Eimi posted:Eh, I'd say by far reformed Hellenism is the best religion, you get so many nice perks. All the society's of Catholics + warrior lodge + astrology sign + no vassal opinion on raised levies + haruspicy for levy morale + tolerance for other faiths + meritocracy. Though of course odds are to get there you spend at least your early game as Catholic or Orthodox, Catholic being superior to leech free money from the people you're going to eventually murder. 1) the stoic intelligentsia is not even close to as good as the society of saint benedict - the benedictans will proc virtues for you for free just for existing in the society, the stoics will not. the benedictans offer guaranteed diligent at level 4, the stoics do not. the benedictans allow you to invoke a power to change a county's religion (and therefore put a stopper on the extremely dangerous religious revolts that will holy war you automatically). the stoics instead convert culture, which is much less important. the biggest thing the stoics do better than the benedictans is that they build cities cheaper rather than temples, which is fantastic but useful only once or twice during your overall strategic plays in the game - having a guaranteed virtue factory will be useful time and time and time again. 2) astrology signs are entirely forgettable and are mostly useful in the ruler designer - and Catholics can gain access to a sign anyway through the Hermetics if they really want one. 3) haruspicy is almost a negatrait because of how much money it costs to get actual results out of it and its compelled use even in tiny wars where it doesn't matter. I put its existence in hellenism as a mark against it, not for it. as a catholic I don't have to essentially pay 30 gold just for the privilege of stomping a rebellion. 4) tolerance for other faiths is terrible compared to Zealous and the two oppose each other, you should pretty much just always go zealous and bank the piety. diplomatically even it is quite situational because most of the time you do not care what heathens think of you because they're holy war targets. i'd feel differently about this if you could, for example, be zealous AND have sympathy for christians or muslims, but as it stands it's pretty bad. 5) Meritocracy is fantastic and I will never not love it but its value tends to be overstated, I feel. You get 90% of the benefit from just using ultimogeniture since you can just stop having sex once you get an heir that looks good. The warrior lodge is amazing and it's the single biggest thing that pagans as a whole bring to the table that Catholics will never have. But honestly that's because if you gave Catholics something like the Knight Templar Reserves or some poo poo they would be loving disgustingly powerful. Catholics do not need the help because they can already leverage Crusades into changing the map so long as they have 60+ MA. catholics also have saints for free (which hellenics need to spend a doctrine on) and catholic saintly bloodlines are way more powerful than venerated ancestor bloodlines because they give nontrivial amounts of prestige and piety just for existing. if you stack 3 saintly bloodlines you basically have free Proud and free Zealous forever, with no downsides. venerated ancestor bloodlines give either highly situational bonuses (like being able to Duel without any ifs or ands) or bonuses that already exist in catholicism (like attracting Great Warriors - just go get Karling blood). being anointed a saint also encourages you to build amazing characters, whereas getting anointed a venerated ancestor can push you into weird or even contradictory requirements based on the structure of your religion. did you know that if you have an Unyielding nature, being Brave actually hurts your chances of being anointed a pagan VA, while Craven increases your chances? weird but true. then there's the piety games you can play with Catholicism, which you can get with a reformed pagan religion but due to the requirements of reform you will really only get access to these games after you truly need them. And obviously your Great Holy Wars - if you even are allowed to use them - will never, ever be as vicious as a 60+ MA Crusade. the biggest benefit to reforming a pagan religion - and especially hellenism - is that you can tailor the religion to precisely how you want to play and bring about something that suits your play style specifically. but catholicism, imo, rules the roost on how many effective tools it gives to its adherents. ElGroucho posted:After getting back in to this game, crusaders are OP as gently caress. It used to be a crusade was an annoying inconvenience that cost me money, but now I'm gaining insane wealth and prestige from a very small contribution. this is why Crusades are so insane now btw. if Catholicism has 60+ MA, the starting pools for prestige and piety are so high that it makes pretty much everyone sit up and take notice, which turns into lots of money/etc. the AI recognizes this, so a catholic crusade with any sort of serious MA will quickly turn into a catholic clown car where every shitstain catholic count with a boat and a dream will show up to a crusade target with his full levies because he wants his slice of that pie. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jun 5, 2019 |
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Jun 5, 2019 17:06
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evenworse username posted:I'm having the first game that I can remember where Catholicism is locked in the Moral Authority death spiral.
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Jun 5, 2019 17:25
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I finally started playing. After several false starts where I hosed up as duke of Munster at the 1066 start, I did it. And thus begins the reign of my most badass queen. First, her gay slow dad died of syphillis when she was 10. Her regent carries on the war, and suddenly, I have right to call myself queen. I wait til she turns 16 and do it. Then suddenly, the pope calls crusade for Spain. So, at 18, she has the crusader bonus, plus something like 23 martial. When she returns from the war, the Scottish king has converted to Yazidi. So she holy wars a huge chunk of it. Then she de jures on Norway and Sweden on different wars, and here's where she gets super awesome. While pregnant, both times, she slays the Queen of Sweden, and King of Norway in one on one duels. All this before she's 24. Anyways, I'm on queen #6 now, hold Ireland, Scotland, and Wales as Queen, and have half of England so far. Soon, I will have an Empress. All I have for expasions is Way of Life. What do you recommend next?
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Jun 5, 2019 17:35
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Has anyone ever reformed a pagan religion and not picked Temporal Leadership? I can see no real reason to pick any of the other ones.
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Jun 5, 2019 17:49
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Dwesa posted:It seems like this happens pretty much every time I start in 769. it's due to the vikings. if the french coast isn't coherent and secure when the year 800 hits, the vikings will show up and loot literally dozens of temples, which crashes catholic MA and encourages tons of heresies to develop. it's basically all on Karl and how he rolls, and there's a ton of ways he can gently caress it up. Funky Valentine posted:Has anyone ever reformed a pagan religion and not picked Temporal Leadership? I can see no real reason to pick any of the other ones. you can't excommunicate with temporal, which is a very helpful tool for vassal control, you can't get sanctioned invasions, which is very useful for getting CBs on co-religionists, and you cannot anoint your own dynasty as venerated ancestors as the temporal leader. there's a lot of really good reasons to go temporal but hierocratic gives you a vassal pope and we all know how hilarious that is. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jun 5, 2019 |
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Jun 5, 2019 17:51
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bunnyofdoom posted:All I have for expasions is Way of Life. What do you recommend next? A lot of expansions clearly unlock some type of faction to play - Mongold, Pagans, Indians, Muslims, Republics. You can mostly skip those if you don't want to play as them. If you want to play as Pagans you'd better get both Old Gods and Pagan Fury. Conclave changes the game most noticeably for everyone with special council mechanics. Legacy of Rome is similar in that it changes your armies allowing for retinues. Sons of Abraham sorta enhances Christianity, mostly Catholicism, but it's not that good or important. Reaper's Due is interesting too but your mileage may vary, I think it gives too much attention to deceases. Note that Old Gods and Charlemagne also add earlier dates, but we've just got a new 10th century start date and in general later dates feel better for many people. And 1066-1453 is still huge, most people never get to 15th century.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:24
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 A bug, or the natural reaction to being married to an ugly, uncouth and cruel king?
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Jun 5, 2019 18:30
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Funky Valentine posted:Has anyone ever reformed a pagan religion and not picked Temporal Leadership? I can see no real reason to pick any of the other ones. Yeah. Regretted it.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:49
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Funky Valentine posted:Has anyone ever reformed a pagan religion and not picked Temporal Leadership? I can see no real reason to pick any of the other ones. Choosing Divine Marriage and Bloodthirty Gods is fun for when you wanna rp being the Evil Empire.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:52
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Randaconda posted:Choosing Divine Marriage and Bloodthirty Gods is fun for when you wanna rp being the Evil Empire. He was asking about leaderships, not doctrines.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:56
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Volkerball posted:He was asking about leaderships, not doctrines. 
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Jun 5, 2019 20:02
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Sometimes I can reform a faith I plan on switching away from, so I make it really lovely before I convert.
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Jun 5, 2019 20:12
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bunnyofdoom posted:All I have for expasions is Way of Life. What do you recommend next? There's a huge list in the OP, ranking the DLCs. Please read the OP  As for how powerful Catholics are, they are very powerful of course. But the reworked crusade mechanic is just one facet. They have 6 holy orders, when all other religions have at most 1. They have the new Fourth Crusade to finally target Byzantium. They have the Reconquista mini crusades. There is no start date where Catholics don't have at least 100 more provinces than the next largest faith. They start in a pretty defensible part of the map, with the big off-map threats of China and the Mongols coming from the other end of the map (unless you use Sunset Invasion). And yes, a high MA new crusade is disgustingly powerful. But it has always been this way. Of course, you can defend against Christian aggression in the right circumstances. Unyielding + fighting on you religion's preferred terrain (like forests for Romuva for example) can let you punch far above your weight. But it's something that usually only the player can make good use of, while the generic Catholic bonuses are much easier to use for the AI.
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Jun 5, 2019 21:05
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...stupid question. I am currently absorbing the world as a reformed African faith. I have the whole of Africa, Arabia, most of Spain and Rome just for laughs. I will then close the horns and take Europe. If I were to continue my conquest, how hard would it be for me to try and duck sideways and grab the SPQR achievement? Can I quickly get a Greek educated heir, convert to Orthodox/Hellenism, make the Byz my primary title and then mend the schism?
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Jun 5, 2019 23:12
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there'll be nothing 'quick' about that since your african vassals and subjects will not be super stoked to suddenly be under a christian, but in principle there's no problem with what you're proposing.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:32
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Anyone know why I wouldn't be able to declare a reconquista as a visigothic Aquitaine? I started as the Basque count of Gascony in the new Iron Century bookmark, the Umayyads went buck wild and took all of Iberia by 1030, pushed into Toulouse five years later, then were pushed out again by a Crusade. I contributed the most and chose to switch to the newly formed Kingdom of Aquitaine, it's a few years later and the 'mayyads are reeling from a vicious civil war and easy pickings. But the decision to start a reconquest war is not available. Could it be tied to the Crusade cooldown? Holy wars aren't nearly as good at grabbing territory, but I guess I'll resort to one if I have to.
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Jun 6, 2019 03:42
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Funky Valentine posted:Has anyone ever reformed a pagan religion and not picked Temporal Leadership? I can see no real reason to pick any of the other ones. If you pick ancestor worship with temporal, you can never have a previous character become an ancestor worthy of veneration, and as such have to marry those bloodlines into yours. It is very annoying.
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Jun 6, 2019 03:43
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Palemdromes posted:Anyone know why I wouldn't be able to declare a reconquista as a visigothic Aquitaine? I started as the Basque count of Gascony in the new Iron Century bookmark, the Umayyads went buck wild and took all of Iberia by 1030, pushed into Toulouse five years later, then were pushed out again by a Crusade. I contributed the most and chose to switch to the newly formed Kingdom of Aquitaine, it's a few years later and the 'mayyads are reeling from a vicious civil war and easy pickings. But the decision to start a reconquest war is not available. Could it be tied to the Crusade cooldown? Holy wars aren't nearly as good at grabbing territory, but I guess I'll resort to one if I have to. I think you're capital has to be on Iberia proper to do Reconquista.
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Jun 6, 2019 03:46
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Funky Valentine posted:I think you're capital has to be on Iberia proper to do Reconquista. Sorry, should’ve mentioned my capital is in Barcelona. I also looked pretty carefully over the decision code, and can’t figure out what I’m missing. Lastly, I’m very dumb.
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Jun 6, 2019 04:03
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What's a good start for someone who has a lot of experience with the game but hasn't played any of the new expansions? I bought Horse Lords, Jade, and Holy Fury back in February but I was too busy teaching to really load it up before now. So I basically have no idea on any of the newer mechanics.
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Jun 6, 2019 04:12
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Caught Cubs Posting
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Devo posted:What's a good start for someone who has a lot of experience with the game but hasn't played any of the new expansions? I bought Horse Lords, Jade, and Holy Fury back in February but I was too busy teaching to really load it up before now. So I basically have no idea on any of the newer mechanics. Depends on what you're after. Holy Fury massively overhauled pagans with the new reformation mechanics. If you play Tengri Nomads, you could try to reform the faith, and can also deal with China, so you get to experience new content from all three DLCs. African pagans are a lot of fun now as well, or you can play a Spanish Christian to use the new Reconquista CB, and you can later experience the awesome overhauled crusades.
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Jun 6, 2019 05:29
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And if you go for Christians, there's coronations, sainthood, and super-buffed crusades. I'd also recommend poking at the the list of decisions for forming new realms, there's stuff like the Slavic Union, Russia, Bosnia, or king-level titles for superdukes within the HRE like Austria, Franconia, or Bavaria. Gives a lot more to work with for goals. There's even the recent Iron Century patch that gives a whole new start date full of interesting opportunities, which they dedicated dev diaries to suggest some characters. There's also the option to build a wonder of the world if you've got too much money burning through your pockets. But the craziest feature that Holy Fury added wasn't some extra flavor for christians or customizing your pagan religion, it's randomly generated worlds! Click that dice button a bunch and figure something out for yourself. Also for people who don't like blobby worlds, there's shattered realms, where you take the same cultures/religions/de jure borders as one of the default starts and everybody is split into independent counts. The ol' experience of clawing your way up from the bottom without having to worry about bigger fish for the first decade or so.
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Jun 6, 2019 06:29
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Oh yeah, I forgot the random world. If you fiddle with the culture slider, you can even get a very special, secret setting. Those portraits are real, unmodded CK2 portraits.
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Jun 6, 2019 06:40
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Note that animals also have much more defined cultures compared to everybody else. What differentiates Norse from Indian, one building, some retinue choices? Ducks can always raid and are much better at sieges! Dragons can burn prisoners!
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Jun 6, 2019 10:10
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What are the optimal choices if I wanna reform Norse into even more of a pirate religion.
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Jun 6, 2019 10:21
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Coward posted:If I were to continue my conquest, how hard would it be for me to try and duck sideways and grab the SPQR achievement? Can I quickly get a Greek educated heir, convert to Orthodox/Hellenism, make the Byz my primary title and then mend the schism? Hellenics can't mend the Schism, because they're not part of it. The decision to mend the Schism only exists if you are Catholic or Orthodox and if the one you are not is dominant.
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Jun 6, 2019 10:29
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Really the Byzantine path to Hellenism is super easy. 1) Use your considerable power to nab Alexandria and Rome. These should be the last two Holy Sites you need to have all 5 Hellenic holy sites. 2) Grab Jerusalem and Antioch. Mend the schism. This step is not essential but is very helpful for the future, because it disables Crusades. 3) While doing the above, or starting now, secret cult Hellenism. Get as many people involved as you can. 4) When ready, smash that "Openly Adopt Faith" button. 5) Your moral authority is going to be garbage, but you have all 5 holy sites, so you can reform immediately. 6) Bribe any Dukes who can be convinced to convert. Revoke any who can't, then hand the Duchies back to rulers who will convert. You're the Byzantines, you can revoke viceroys freely. 7) You've done it! You might have some problems with secret cults in the future but that shouldn't matter too much. Hellenic moral authority will be soaring and Orthodox authority will implode, causing converting provinces to be pretty fast and easy. Your loyal Hellenic vassals will put to work converting their vassals and families for you.
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Jun 6, 2019 12:27
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ilitarist posted:Note that animals also have much more defined cultures compared to everybody else. What differentiates Norse from Indian, one building, some retinue choices? Ducks can always raid and are much better at sieges! Dragons can burn prisoners! That's a bit of an unfortunate example, because Norse (but not Danes, Norwegians or Swedes) can also always raid.
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Jun 6, 2019 13:36
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Even when they become good Christians?.. I thought it depends on religion. Anyway, I'm also irritated by how when someone with a wrong culture inherits a castle they tear up culture-specific buildings. Culture, in general, is rather strange in this game. And it's telling that you properly notice it in a fantasy Easter Egg mode, outside of it you have several melting pots, optional castration, and beyond that, it's mostly a miniscule relation penalty.
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Jun 6, 2019 14:45
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FreudianSlippers posted:What are the optimal choices if I wanna reform Norse into even more of a pirate religion. Bit Torrent?
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Jun 6, 2019 15:27
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 bordergore porn
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Jun 6, 2019 15:38
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Raiding is granted by Norse culture in this instance, and they can raid even if their religion doesn't allow it. Oh, and they changed it so that Danes, Norwegians or Swedes can still raid even after flipping.
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Jun 6, 2019 15:45
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