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Bogart posted:??? There’s all of two required character deaths in game, and they’re at the actual end of the line, and if you’re tricksy you can skip them. i imagine he's referring to a one-two punch you can't reasonably respond to, like treebranch smackdown paired with a blight or some poo poo
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May 23, 2019 00:30
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| # ? May 27, 2024 22:20 |
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I remember seeing a twitch clip of someone's vestal getting crit twice in a row by spiders right at the start of a fight and deathblow'd from full HP with no chance to respond lol
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May 23, 2019 01:09
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I mean, this is the game where the Collector can spawn during the tutorial lol. It's not a game for carebears. It's a game for people who like to replace their keyboard frequently after bouts of frustration. But when you think about it, the only way to really get into the heads of the adventurers is to embrace that sense of frustration and doom.
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May 23, 2019 01:13
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Coolguye posted:i imagine he's referring to a one-two punch you can't reasonably respond to, like treebranch smackdown paired with a blight or some poo poo This one's my favorite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5sU84jY29I
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May 23, 2019 03:06
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Yeah. My last level 5+ vestal got 100->0 beefed by ghoul and his cowardly maggot buddy, and now I'm just really sour. God drat that skull toss crit. Worst part is that the vestal procced vigorous on the first hit. She coulda been a contender 
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May 23, 2019 04:16
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The Fanatic can eat a big fat bag of dicks.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:17
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I get too stressed out, personally, between missions. "Do I really want to do this to you guys again? This place is awful" Then I jump off after 1-2 missions because I feel bad for my characters.  Makes no goddamn sense, but that's how it goes...
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Jun 3, 2019 16:32
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Coolguye posted:i imagine he's referring to a one-two punch you can't reasonably respond to, like treebranch smackdown paired with a blight or some poo poo My "favorite" is the tier 3 brigand cannon when every single person attacks that drat matchstick guy and whiffs or doesn't do enough to put him down. It's happened to me a couple of times.
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Jun 3, 2019 16:36
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Cythereal posted:My "favorite" is the tier 3 brigand cannon when every single person attacks that drat matchstick guy and whiffs or doesn't do enough to put him down. This was the worst for me in my record Endless Harvest run, as while my team was well-kitted for every other boss, they were weakest in this scenario. Only my Hellion could reliably ensure that the matchman died every turn, leaving me with just the Jester to chip away at the cannon. Of course, if my Plague Doctor got lucky and was able to stun the matchman, the Hellion could divert her attention away for one turn...
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Jun 5, 2019 00:54
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The Brigand 16-Pounder was probably the single most prolonged fight I've ever had to deal with in a turn-based RPG. Pretty sure I shared my turn count in this thread after I was finished. I eventually got a good system down, but you really have to prioritize killing the Matchstick Man at all costs, and sometimes the game likes to keep him alive. I distinctly remember him living to the end of one round, only for the canon to misfire. I mostly managed to keep a pretty cool head throughout the game, but if he'd shot me then, that might've been the end of it, if only to punctuate the hour-odd I spent on it. EDIT: Bad Seafood fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Jun 5, 2019 |
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Jun 5, 2019 01:34
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Cannon_Fodder posted:I feel bad for my characters. This might not be the game for you
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Jun 5, 2019 05:32
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I don't feel bad for my characters as often as I feel angry at them. Like, sometimes you've got a guy in the group who's just a troublemaker. Wiffs every shot, stresses out before everyone else and then passes turns/refuses buffs at the worst possible moments. At that point I'm glad when they die. Had a whole party of assholes last night. Wiped them on purpose then sent my good team to get their trinkets back from the Shrieker.
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Jun 5, 2019 07:21
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The brigand pounder is probably my favorite boss. It’s so slickly designed. There’s no rng for who on the team is getting screwed, it’s all managing adds and getting pick damage on the cannon. That’s great.
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Jun 5, 2019 07:39
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I do like how, if the cannon misfires, your entire team gets a stress heal. It's very easy for me to imagine everyone breathing a huge sigh of relief.
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Jun 5, 2019 13:21
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Backhand posted:I do like how, if the cannon misfires, your entire team gets a stress heal. It's very easy for me to imagine everyone breathing a huge sigh of relief. gently caress, i as the player get a stress heal when that happens.
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Jun 5, 2019 14:11
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Applewhite posted:I don't feel bad for my characters as often as I feel angry at them.  You monster! I attempted to stream this yesterday for my first gaming stream. 35 minutes of no vewiers and I realized I didn't want to start over again.
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Jun 5, 2019 17:33
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Bogart posted:There’s no rng for who on the team is getting screwed, Except for "everyone's getting hosed" when that matchstick man refuses to die. More than once I've had the entire party whiff on him or leave him with one or two HP. It's the worst boss fight in the game, imo. RNG decides if you wipe or have a clean run while chipping away at a mountain of HP that ideally will never do anything but drag the fight out.
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Jun 5, 2019 17:36
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Cythereal posted:Except for "everyone's getting hosed" when that matchstick man refuses to die. More than once I've had the entire party whiff on him or leave him with one or two HP. I disagree with this, because Darkest Dungeon is a game about mitigating risks and the Pounder has a very clear way of mitigating risk. The matchstick man has to die every round, so you prioritize classes and skills and buffs that have the highest chance of doing damage to him. That alone isn't a huge challenge, you can build a team that will 100% (85%) kill him every turn, but that team probably can't do enough damage to the cannon and other brigands to survive the attrition. Finding that balance of reliable, focused damage and big, broad hits is the challenge, and it's a good one for this game. That's also why I've always felt the Hag fights are the worst, because there really isn't a good way to mitigate the risk besides "do more damage". The pot takes so much to kill that you're as likely to lose your whole team to attrition breaking people out of it, as you are to lose a single person who goes through a whole cook cycle and then gets tenderized if you focus down the Hag.
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Jun 5, 2019 17:59
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Too Shy Guy posted:I disagree with this, because Darkest Dungeon is a game about mitigating risks and the Pounder has a very clear way of mitigating risk. The matchstick man has to die every round, so you prioritize classes and skills and buffs that have the highest chance of doing damage to him. That alone isn't a huge challenge, you can build a team that will 100% (85%) kill him every turn, but that team probably can't do enough damage to the cannon and other brigands to survive the attrition. Finding that balance of reliable, focused damage and big, broad hits is the challenge, and it's a good one for this game. But sometimes the RNG just plain fucks you. I've seen it happen, more than once. I feel that the cannon is not about mitigating risk. It has a binary succeed/fail condition, and that condition falls down to RNG: either you kill the matchstick man, or you don't. If you don't, you die (unless you get supremely lucky). There is no getting around this with clever planning or composition, no mitigating the effects of the fail state. I think that's an awful bit of design.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:13
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Like a lot of bad puzzles, the solution to the Brigand Pounder is easy to arrive at but tedious to actualize.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:36
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what's tedious about it? for all the brigand pounder fights I just brought a team which had multiple people capable of hitting 3rd/4th row. doesn't really take long at all to do that
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Jun 5, 2019 22:13
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You still have to burn down its loads and loads of hp, propped up by its tremendeous resistance to damage.
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Jun 5, 2019 22:19
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IronicDongz posted:what's tedious about it?
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Jun 5, 2019 22:32
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you're not expected to take that long to kill it, fights that long are outliers. brigand 16 pounder has 156 health. each turn it should take you 1-2 actions to kill the lighter(1 to stun it if you built for that), 3 if you're unlucky, and then the rest of your actions should be spent burning down the cannon. what is going on that the fight is taking that long? some people also kill the other adds but I don't think I've ever seen a fight against that thing take over 20 turns. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jun 5, 2019 |
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Jun 5, 2019 22:45
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For as much people get frustrated about it, there are also moments like when my Houndmaster procced like 14 crits in a row on the matchstick guy. There was only one time he didn't damage him enough to kill him and my Hellion had to Iron Swan to finish him off. Abomination is useful in that fight, since you can spam Rake to good effect.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:03
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the hilarious thing is that you could replace my post with "20+" and the point still stands even if you want to push the point that 50+ is an extreme outlier (which i don't buy). ime 25-30 rounds is entirely normal and 50 is not unexpected if you don't bring something to reduce the cannon's prot. you are also kind of forgetting that since it is an endurance fight you absolutely must bring some sort of refreshment/healing to keep things going, especially on higher difficulties where the trash summoned by the cannon gets more and more vicious. easy example: the lasher in bad seafood's picture absolutely must be disposed of because rain of lashes is such a humongous problem in a fight that drags on for so long; the bleeds alone will tear apart your assault team in 15-20 turns, to say nothing of the other attacks he could get in while you are focusing the cannon. when you consider that by your own definition you could end up not hitting the cannon for a turn or two if you are unlucky (3 to deal with the matchman, 1 to get a heal in), and i feel like with all the other particulars about the fight that you're ignoring it's a lot more reasonable to miss damaging the cannon for a round or two then you let on. e: to this day i have no idea why the cannon is immune to blight, it seems a no-brainer both mechanically and thematically to have a plague doctor throw acid bombs at it until its barrel melts. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jun 5, 2019 |
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Jun 5, 2019 23:04
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I don't think the pounder is a great fight but I also don't it's a bad one. an endurance fight is not a fundamentally bad thing to have in a game like this. I was taking into account that you can have turns where you do not damage the cannon. I think when I last fought brigand 16 I won in like, 14 turns? you could have significantly worse RNG than me and still kill it in under 20 turns, not that slightly over 20 turns would really be that different. and I'm sure with a more optimized team you could do it faster, lord knows I barely bother with real team/trinket optimization in this game
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Jun 5, 2019 23:14
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the obvious answer to the brigand pounder is a squad of 4 lepers. the brigands will be too grossed out to fire the cannon
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Jun 5, 2019 23:25
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that math doesn't scan. 16 pounder has 103 HP, 70% prot, for what amounts to ~340 'unprotected' HP. assuming you don't bring someone who can pull down prot you need 14 full damage hits from a leper's CHOP skill to kill it - assuming only average damage, you need 17. if we assume average damage from the next most damaging classes (crusader and hellion, because lol lepers), you need 23 hits to kill it. obviously if you could average two hits on the cannon a round that would cut these numbers in half but we just granted that it's not rare for battlefield realities to preclude hitting it some turns. we could say that the number of rounds you fail to hit the cannon generally equals the number of rounds you hit it twice. i think that's somewhat generous personally, because again, on higher levels the poo poo it summons is bad news bears. but even then, that's not ~15 turns, that's well over 20 and it puts it in a league otherwise only touched by the final boss, which has multiple phases. i'd be able to buy ~15 turns on the 12 pounder since the summons are much less annoying and it's much easier to keep the field clean due to your dudes' relative strength (also the math works out to overall require somewhat fewer strikes). but the 14 is sketchy and the 16 it's 100% reasonable to need 20 turns just on a naive analysis. irl i can think of a ton of things that can go wrong to delay you quite a lot. e: i also just realized that my analysis is actually kind of rosy because i rounded up at .5 like a normal person doing math while in game everything is rounded down, so 1.9 damage will just be 1 and the high prot values will make partial values much more likely. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jun 5, 2019 |
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Jun 5, 2019 23:26
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Node posted:the obvious answer to the brigand pounder is a squad of 4 lepers. the brigands will be too grossed out to fire the cannon it is actually 4 jesters; the brigands would never do anything to help the hamlet
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Jun 5, 2019 23:45
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Vvulf, after seeing Jesters cavorting and cartwheeling around in the Weald: "It became necessary to destroy the Hamlet in order to save it."
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Jun 6, 2019 00:27
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Coolguye posted:that math doesn't scan. 16 pounder has 103 HP, 70% prot, for what amounts to ~340 'unprotected' HP. assuming you don't bring someone who can pull down prot you need 14 full damage hits from a leper's CHOP skill to kill it - assuming only average damage, you need 17. if we assume average damage from the next most damaging classes (crusader and hellion, because lol lepers), you need 23 hits to kill it. obviously if you could average two hits on the cannon a round that would cut these numbers in half but we just granted that it's not rare for battlefield realities to preclude hitting it some turns.
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Jun 6, 2019 00:37
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You need to kill its ads, however, which add a non trivial amount of targets that need killing asap.
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Jun 6, 2019 00:54
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Leper's Hew is really good for that fight, since it does damage to the cannon and puts a brigand closer to death every round. He just needs something like the Ancestor's Signet on Champion to ensure you actually hit them.
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Jun 6, 2019 01:00
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Iceclaw posted:You need to kill its ads, however, which add a non trivial amount of targets that need killing asap. I actually find it more useful to stun/debuff them then waste turns killing them over and over. Though respawns can push the cannon in a better spot sometimes. Too Shy Guy posted:Leper's Hew is really good for that fight, since it does damage to the cannon and puts a brigand closer to death every round. He just needs something like the Ancestor's Signet on Champion to ensure you actually hit them.
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Jun 6, 2019 01:13
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Iceclaw posted:You need to kill its ads, however, which add a non trivial amount of targets that need killing asap. its minions never struck me as being a huge deal, they're just standard bandit guys. the stabby one can be dangerous but throwing a stun at him isn't a big deal and post nerf the bandit gunners are super weak.
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Jun 6, 2019 01:16
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Iceclaw posted:You need to kill its ads, however, which add a non trivial amount of targets that need killing asap.
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Jun 6, 2019 02:30
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I just picked this up (along with the DLC) in today's Steam sale for PC. I'd played previously on the PS4 but never got too far because it was frustrating to play with a controller. Are there any mods that people recommend for a first time player or should I just go in vanilla? Also, when should I activate the DLCs?
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Jun 7, 2019 00:05
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I run Faster Darkest Dungeon to increase animation speeds, and would recommend it for a first run: nothing feels rushed with it and even a single playthrough of the game is long enough that anything you can do to shave away dead time is nice. Any mods with gameplay changes are best left for a second playthrough. As to DLC: the Musketeer is an art-swap of the Arbalest class; you may want to leave it off since the two classes are the same mechanically but can't use each other's (identical except for the names and art) class trinkets, which is annoying. It's not a terribly important decision either way, though. You're probably best off activating the Crimson Court sometime between Week 10 and 20, when you have a party capable of taking on a miniboss fight. It does increase the difficulty of the game a bit and can be something of a slog, so leaving it off entirely is also an option for the first run. The rest of the DLC can be activated at the start of the game, although it's wise to delay visiting the Farmstead or bringing the Shieldbreaker into a medium or long dungeon until you have a solid crew of heroes (likely Week 10-20 as well).
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Jun 7, 2019 00:51
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So is everybody still agreed that jester is almost totally useless? What other classes are a waste? I've enjoyed graverobbers in movement-based parties; Lunge is a fairly nasty attack and Pickaxe is nice for ignoring Protection, but I have to admit they seem pretty lackluster for anything else.
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Jun 7, 2019 14:20
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