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Is Satine Phoenix still a WotC employee? Because if so promoting a Frog God Games KickStarter is not a good look given the previous associations of Zak and Grimsaur/Grimachu/Desborough.
Libertad! fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 23:37
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My favorite alignment replacement (well, apart from "nothing") is the D20 Black Company adaptation, which swapped it out for "allegiance". You could declare an allegiance (to a person or organization or belief or place), and you get a small bonus when trying to use a charisma-linked skill on someone who shares the same allegiance. It becomes a useful shorthand for "OK, what side is this person/monster/whatever on" and that's it. Perfect.
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Jun 6, 2019 23:47
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FMguru posted:My favorite alignment replacement (well, apart from "nothing") is the D20 Black Company adaptation, which swapped it out for "allegiance". You could declare an allegiance (to a person or organization or belief or place), and you get a small bonus when trying to use a charisma-linked skill on someone who shares the same allegiance. It becomes a useful shorthand for "OK, what side is this person/monster/whatever on" and that's it. Perfect. Did they steal this from d20 Modern, or the other way around?
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Jun 6, 2019 23:48
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Joe Slowboat posted:Was Three Hearts and Three Lions messing around with Law/Chaos before Moorcock did? Both The Dreaming City and While the Gods Laugh were published in 1961, so parallel evolution?
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Jun 6, 2019 23:51
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Angrymog posted:Both The Dreaming City and While the Gods Laugh were published in 1961, so parallel evolution? Cool, thanks. This may point to an earlier source for both of them, which wouldn't hugely surprise me. I wonder if the 'kaoskampf' theories of mythology were gaining traction then.
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Jun 6, 2019 23:54
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Libertad! posted:Is Satine Phoenix still a WotC employee? Because if so promoting a Frog God Games KickStarter is not a good look given the previous associations of Zak and Grimsaur/Grimachu/Desborough.  THE HERALD OF COMPASSION!
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Jun 7, 2019 00:00
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:Did they steal this from d20 Modern, or the other way around?
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Jun 7, 2019 00:06
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Libertad! posted:Is Satine Phoenix still a WotC employee? Because if so promoting a Frog God Games KickStarter is not a good look given the previous associations of Zak and Grimsaur/Grimachu/Desborough. Going for the hat trick I see. Well I guess when you've already made several terrible life choices you might as well go all the way.
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Jun 7, 2019 00:53
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Darwinism posted:Using the system to get at your goals is Lawful, even if you twist it so that it fits your Good. Chaotic Good is the vigilante, not the cop ACALE (All Cops Are Lawful Evil)
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Jun 7, 2019 00:53
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Libertad! posted:Is Satine Phoenix still a WotC employee? Because if so promoting a Frog God Games KickStarter is not a good look given the previous associations of Zak and Grimsaur/Grimachu/Desborough. Wait that's what's happening now? Not the thing that caused all the shenanigans like two days ago. Wow. Anyway, no I don't think she is.
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Jun 7, 2019 01:34
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She was their token LGBTQ+ person. Mostly because she's the only one Zak hadn't tried to harass out of the industry.
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Jun 7, 2019 05:18
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Rhandhali posted:SJG makes a lot more sense when you read their source material, namely Robert Anton Wilson’s ILLUMINATUS trilogy. Or more specifically, a small subset of injokes from the trilogy, repeated over and over again ad nauseum. When you realise how much SJG love driving the same loving joke into the ground to the point of tediousness, suddenly Munchkin makes sense.
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Jun 7, 2019 11:38
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Warthur posted:Or more specifically, a small subset of injokes from the trilogy, repeated over and over again ad nauseum. I figured Munchkin has more to do with the sheer number of products sold. Can’t blame them when people keep buying.
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Jun 7, 2019 11:41
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Angrymog posted:Both The Dreaming City and While the Gods Laugh were published in 1961, so parallel evolution? Brief googling suggests that Three Hearts and Three Lions, whilst the novel was published in 1961, was originally published in novella form in 1953, so I think Moorcock (being the sort of dude who kept up with the fantasy magazines in those days) was following up on Anderson's original idea. (In particular, Moorcock is way more inclined to question whether Law is always Good and Chaos is always Evil than Anderson - particularly over the full span of Moorcock's work. Like, in a particular Moorcock series it might be evident that Law is Good and Chaos is Evil, but that's just because the situation the world finds itself in there is one where a bit more social order and a bit less random banditry is what's called for, whilst in other series Law is stagnant tyranny whilst Chaos is dynamic freedom.) Alien Rope Burn posted:Overall I bring it up because it's the board for Brainwash, easily the worst of the Illuminati supplements, but also because it's this complex system where you can adjust the effect of each alignment or change its opposition to another alignment... and it's just a needlessly fiddly expansion to an already fiddly game, and there's a reason practically nobody plays with it. A lot of alignment / morality systems generally strike me as seeming like a good idea on their face, but when removed, you'd hardly ever notice their absence. D&D alignment seems to be useful solely and exclusively as a prompt to nudge people into thinking about personality traits for their characters which exist independently of their class... but almost any other way to describe character personality works better than alignment. It's a system which very obviously originated as a "who can I buy as allies"? system in a wargame and got grandfathered in when D&D took in all that Chainmail DNA.
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Jun 7, 2019 11:44
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Rhandhali posted:I figured Munchkin has more to do with the sheer number of products sold. Can’t blame them when people keep buying.
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Jun 7, 2019 11:48
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Joe Slowboat posted:Was Three Hearts and Three Lions messing around with Law/Chaos before Moorcock did? Like Warthur said, the novel was expanded from a shorter story that came out in 1953. It's also the inspiration for how trolls work in D&D, influenced other fantasy races like dwarves and elves, swanmay, the paladin class, and I think a few other things I'm forgetting.
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Jun 7, 2019 12:56
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Kai Tave posted:Going for the hat trick I see. Well I guess when you've already made several terrible life choices you might as well go all the way. Why are you trying to bully this poor woman by pointing out she projects an all-encompassing aura of inclusion when she continues to associate with manifestly terrible people? Oh, wait, that's why. theironjef posted:Wait that's what's happening now? Not the thing that caused all the shenanigans like two days ago. Wow. Anyway, no I don't think she is. Yeah, her contract was done in March.
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Jun 7, 2019 13:42
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Rhandhali posted:SJG makes a lot more sense when you read their source material, namely Robert Anton Wilson’s ILLUMINATUS trilogy. The ILLUMINATUS trilogy very rarely makes things make more sense. I should re-read that with an extra 35 years perspective.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:14
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moths posted:She was their token LGBTQ+ person. Mostly because she's the only one Zak hadn't tried to harass out of the industry. EDIT: Shanely? I think that's their name.
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Jun 7, 2019 18:14
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Warthur posted:That explains why they keep cranking it out; the SJG love of injoke quantity over product quality explains why Munchkin is the way it is in the first place.
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Jun 7, 2019 20:56
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Illuminati! is an artifact of its time because it's from an era where people mocked conspiracy theories instead of acknowledging the conspiracy fact.
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Jun 7, 2019 22:07
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My impression is that Gygax did not really intend original D&D to reproduce realistic real-world people in the game. You were supposed to be playing as fantasy character archetypes, and specifically archetypes drawn from a fairly narrow range of fantasy literature (e.g., the books Gygax had read and cared about). In the early-mid 1970s, D&D as Gygax saw it was definitely not the totally open, anything-and-the-kitchen-sink fantasy genre concept that most of us would consider it to be. In his game, your lawful good character wasn't necessarily really-in-our-real-world "good," a topic he didn't really want to debate anyway; rather, the character would be lawful-good in the terms understood by the other characters and powers in that setting. Chopping off the heads of recently-converted evil prisoners was lawful-good not because Gygax necessarily thought that was an actually good thing to do (although I guess he might have), but because that fit what he thought the setting's harsh medieval-alike fantasy tropes demanded. I really don't think he'd spent all that much time trying to build a logically consistent, robust framework for world-building beyond the fantasy influences he was personally interested in. It's a kind of restricted view of the game's world(s) that the game itself rapidly outgrew, and the alignment system never caught up to what the players and the other writers of the game were doing with the rules, but I think that's the origin.
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Jun 7, 2019 23:44
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OD&D wasn't about characters at all. It was about wargaming units. Any personality involved was just a proxy for battlefield alliances.
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Jun 8, 2019 06:40
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Its been a while but whenever I played a game with the 3x3 alignment chart (tt or videogame) I always took it as the what and the how of the character. A lawful good character was good and used the law to achieve those ends, a lawful evil character was evil and also used the law to achieve those ends. Chaotic neutral doesn't give a drat about good or bad, they leave behind a big mess either way and so on. True neutral dgaf. Hence why lawful and good are two separate elements - they are not necessarily the same even though in an ideal world (real or imagined) they would be. Then you get the typical story tension when presenting characters with the option to do what matches what they are (good, bad, neutral) but through a means that conflicts with how they would normally do it (illegal, tipping the balance, by the books etc). I goddamn love the neutral ape alignment chart. It's wrong - ape's are at best chaotic good - but it made me laugh by being so random.
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Jun 8, 2019 07:42
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hot take: alignment should be descriptive, not prescriptive
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Jun 8, 2019 07:56
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4e got it right in that it was descriptive of which cosmic forces of good or evil a character was aligned with.
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Jun 8, 2019 12:06
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4e was also smart enough to say that the most common alignment by far was Unaligned. Because a butcher isn't really thinking about the cosmic ramifications of giving the neighborhood grandma a discount while thumbing the scale on rich dicks.
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Jun 8, 2019 16:55
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I don't care how cheap he makes the neighborhood grandma, I'm not gonna stop buying that rich dick.
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Jun 8, 2019 19:14
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Razorwired posted:4e was also smart enough to say that the most common alignment by far was Unaligned. Because a butcher isn't really thinking about the cosmic ramifications of giving the neighborhood grandma a discount while thumbing the scale on rich dicks. And while they called the ends Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil it was basically a single axis of Exalted--Good--Neutral--Evil--Vile.
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Jun 8, 2019 21:21
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RudeCat posted:I don't care how cheap he makes the neighborhood grandma, I'm not gonna stop buying that rich dick. so you'll keep buying that rich dick even if the butcher is giving you the shaft
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Jun 8, 2019 23:41
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Bruceski posted:And while they called the ends Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil it was basically a single axis of Exalted--Good--Neutral--Evil--Vile.
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Jun 9, 2019 00:00
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Re: Alignment I think it was supposed to be just a factional thing even in OD&D (hence alignment languages) but as alignment got more complicated and turned into the 9 alignment system it just became a kind of personality/philosophy thing.
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Jun 9, 2019 02:18
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Bruceski posted:And while they called the ends Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil it was basically a single axis of Exalted--Good--Neutral--Evil--Vile. That's the way it was presented, but the descriptions of Good/Evil were actually more similar to the old Chaotic Good/Lawful Evil than their Neutral versions. Not really sure why they did it that way.
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Jun 9, 2019 05:48
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Zandar posted:That's the way it was presented, but the descriptions of Good/Evil were actually more similar to the old Chaotic Good/Lawful Evil than their Neutral versions.
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Jun 9, 2019 06:05
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A player from the UKGE fiasco did a brief interview that firmly contradicts watsizface's diarrhea story. Also I had to look in on the RPGnet thread about this and  
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Jun 9, 2019 06:14
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That Old Tree posted:A player from the UKGE fiasco did a brief interview that firmly contradicts watsizface's diarrhea story. "I'll only respect your boundaries if you explain to me why you have them" is distressingly common.
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Jun 9, 2019 06:20
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Kurieg posted:"I'll only respect your boundaries if you explain to me why you have them" is distressingly common. Looks like the thread's calling it out so that's okay until someone gets banned for personal attacks.
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Jun 9, 2019 06:43
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The rpg organiser for the con has posted about the incident and events afterwards as well: https://millionwordman.blogspot.com/2019/06/on-inappropriate-content-in-games-and.html So that's three sources saying that rape gm and desborough are full of poo poo. PST fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Jun 9, 2019 |
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Jun 9, 2019 09:02
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PST posted:The rpg organiser for the con has posted about the incident and events afterwards as well: In addition to backing up the other accounts, there is this "what the gently caress" moment: quote:But here’s the other thing, because social media is a wildfire, and I’ve seen so much unsubstantiated nonsense in the last few days that it beggars belief, so here’s the truth of it. The DM was the person in charge of preventing this from happening.
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Jun 9, 2019 12:06
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Mormon Star Wars posted:The DM was the person in charge of preventing this from happening. I think you mean The DM was the boss, it's awesome, he can do what he wants and no lamer can tell him what to do!
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Jun 9, 2019 12:28
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