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this is skipping a ways ahead but I caught a bit of a West Wing rerun on a random TV yesterday and it was Chandler Bing being hired as a new White House counsel and Josh is opposed to hiring him because he's a Republican and Donna says "but Ainsley Hayes was a Republican" and Josh says something like "well if you're going to be hired as a Republican you had better look like Ainsley Hayes" AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Jun 7, 2019 17:05
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This episode SUCKED to watch but was really fun to rip apart and I think this might be one of our best episodes. Excited for the show to keep sucking hard and having to keep watching it! 
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Jun 7, 2019 22:09
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e: you already covered this, I'm behind
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Jun 7, 2019 22:34
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Good stuff, glad to have this podcast back! A request/note: When you do "Somebody's going to emergency, Somebody's going to jail," the plotline around Sam's dad is re-used whole cloth from Sports Night. Between that and the fact that everyone else's dad on either show is either dead, abusive, had Alzheimer's, or is scowling at you because your brother is in Afghanistan, dammit!, I gotta believe Sorkin had a real poo poo relationship with his dad. The only dad the shows don't hate is President Dad himself.
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Jun 8, 2019 12:10
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president dad has daddy issues too
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Jun 8, 2019 12:37
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Will McAvoy from Newsroom also had daddy issues
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Jun 8, 2019 13:48
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 Hmm I wonder if the writer of all of these works of fiction also has daddy issues which he projects through the fictional characters he writes...
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Jun 8, 2019 13:53
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TheChirurgeon posted:Good stuff, glad to have this podcast back! it would be funny if sorkin had a brother who was a soldier and kept killing his characters' soldier brothers across all of his shows
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Jun 8, 2019 13:53
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Which episode has the line from President Dad complaining how everyone is offended too easily these days that I still see boomers quote? Google isn't giving me an immediate answer. I want to hate watch that episode.
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Jun 8, 2019 16:38
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WampaLord posted:
Sarah Paulson's entire character on Studio 60 was basically his sendup of ex-girlfriend Kristin Chenoweth
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Jun 8, 2019 17:23
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is there any chance you'll cover the worst movie ever made, "Charlie Wilson's War" ?
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Jun 8, 2019 17:31
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Victory Position posted:is there any chance you'll cover the worst movie ever made, "Charlie Wilson's War" ? That's a weird way to spell The American President
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Jun 8, 2019 17:33
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TheChirurgeon posted:Sarah Paulson's entire character on Studio 60 was basically his sendup of ex-girlfriend Kristin Chenoweth Yyyyyyuuuuppp! Who I'm pretty sure he met when she started on The West Wing in its later seasons. Echo Chamber posted:Which episode has the line from President Dad complaining how everyone is offended too easily these days that I still see boomers quote? I feel like this happens a lot, you're gonna have to be more specific.
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Jun 8, 2019 17:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:That's a weird way to spell The American President oh god, that was blanked from my mind <  >
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Jun 8, 2019 18:38
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Victory Position posted:is there any chance you'll cover the worst movie ever made, "Charlie Wilson's War" ? the CIA guy we're supposed to sympathize with because of him being discriminated before we remember that the good work he's talking about having done for the company is couping governments and probably training death squads
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Jun 8, 2019 18:39
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Dave is the best president movie
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Jun 8, 2019 18:41
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studio 60 was such a blip and seemed so long ago that it aired before west wing in my head. 2007 is way too late, something's off
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Jun 8, 2019 19:25
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HOW DARE SHE SAY THE TRUTH ABOUT THE DEVIL WEED!? This poo poo is infuriating.
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Jun 8, 2019 19:26
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i say swears online posted:studio 60 was such a blip and seemed so long ago that it aired before west wing in my head. 2007 is way too late, something's off It came out at the same time as 30 Rock and I remember thinking 30 Rock was going to be a stupid failure and Studio 60 was going to be on for years. ...Then I watched the first episode of Studio 60
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Jun 8, 2019 19:49
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TheChirurgeon posted:It came out at the same time as 30 Rock and I remember thinking 30 Rock was going to be a stupid failure and Studio 60 was going to be on for years. i was still a dumb lib babyman back in 2007 and thought Studio 70 was epic lolz that would never be cancelled and then woops
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Jun 8, 2019 19:56
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TheChirurgeon posted:It came out at the same time as 30 Rock and I remember thinking 30 Rock was going to be a stupid failure and Studio 60 was going to be on for years. iirc this was the conventional media critic wisdom, because it was unthinkable to them that Sorkin’s show wouldn’t inevitably win out due to its inherently superior quality 30 Rock has a Season 5 Sorkin cameo where Studio 60 only merits a single, incredibly quick joke at his expense
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Jun 8, 2019 20:08
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I've seen maybe half the episodes of Studio 60, and I found it more openly preachy (in a bad way) than West Wing. Also, my resentment towards liberalism manifests in a way where I hate 30 Rock. To be fair, I only watched one season. Like, it's not as bad as 60, but I felt like I was watching the liberal comedy world therapeutically mock itself in a way where it's fully aware of all the tensions in mass media but doesn't want its audience to ultimately hate them. Like it's institutional self-deprecation or something.
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Jun 8, 2019 21:24
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Echo Chamber posted:I've seen maybe half the episodes of Studio 60, and I found it more openly preachy (in a bad way) than West Wing. Im generally more accepting of 30 Rock, combat liberalism always disclaimer here. There is a huge conflict between the show having genuinely terrible people and also being p clever and well crafted. Also an indictment of my age and fundamental comfortability with a particular format of tv I just think Tracy Morgan is genuinely funny and honestly the reason I watch is for him and *genuflexion to Papa Marx for my venal sin* Alec Baldwin, a very talented if ultimately godawful person
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Jun 8, 2019 21:54
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LGD posted:iirc this was the conventional media critic wisdom, because it was unthinkable to them that Sorkin’s show wouldn’t inevitably win out due to its inherently superior quality They also mock the walk and talk in his brief cameo. And yeah, count me as someone who thought Studio 60 would easily out succeed 30 Rock only to be proven wrong. Studio 60 taking itself seriously as hell was the major mistake, whereas 30 Rock realized it's just better to mock everything. Echo Chamber posted:Also, my resentment towards liberalism manifests in a way where I hate 30 Rock. To be fair, I only watched one season. Like, it's not as bad as 60, but I felt like I was watching the liberal comedy world therapeutically mock itself in a way where it's fully aware of all the tensions in mass media but doesn't want its audience to ultimately hate them. Like it's institutional self-deprecation or something. On the one hand, I agree, but on the other hand, it's a very funny show. I am still kinda mad at Tina Fey for the whole sheet cake response to Charlottesville.
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Jun 8, 2019 21:57
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Echo Chamber posted:I've seen maybe half the episodes of Studio 60, and I found it more openly preachy (in a bad way) than West Wing. Part of it is that 30 Rock's first season is pretty bad. It took the show some time to find its footing but once it did, it got really funny and that helps a lot. Also yeah, Studio 60 is much preachier than the West Wing somehow, only lacking the gravitas that comes with the fictional presidency. It's one thing for a show about life and death stakes to lecture you on the importance of principled democracy or whatever the gently caress, it's an entirely different thing for a show about a fictional SNL also-ran to lecture you on the importance of free speech for hours at a time.
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Jun 8, 2019 22:04
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TheChirurgeon posted:Part of it is that 30 Rock's first season is pretty bad. It took the show some time to find its footing but once it did, it got really funny and that helps a lot. Hell yeah this is something I'm struggling more and more with these days like, the stakes involved in (insert popular culture thing) are just SO inconsequential or impossible to take seriously, from a narrative structure standpoint. Oh no not my self insert comedy show! A corollary too with increasing pandering to cynicism and "irony" like when some garbage ala Guardians of the Galaxy is smashed into The Avengers. The messaging and connotation is so loving confusing. "OK cool so, we're constantly joking about this and want the audience to laugh, but also they need to understand the gravitas here: everyone's gonna die and everything is bad"
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Jun 8, 2019 22:10
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Gunshow Poophole posted:Hell yeah this is something I'm struggling more and more with these days like, the stakes involved in (insert popular culture thing) are just SO inconsequential or impossible to take seriously, from a narrative structure standpoint. I feel like you need the jokes and irony still at that point, or you risk your big fun superhero movie becoming a dour, grim experience like loving batman v superman. There are definitely points where it's overused in the Marvel movies though, particularly when they feel the need to go overboard and undercut *every* dramatic moment with a joke or witty remark, and they can't just let an earnest moment be.
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Jun 9, 2019 01:28
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TheChirurgeon posted:Also yeah, Studio 60 is much preachier than the West Wing somehow, only lacking the gravitas that comes with the fictional presidency. It's one thing for a show about life and death stakes to lecture you on the importance of principled democracy or whatever the gently caress, it's an entirely different thing for a show about a fictional SNL also-ran to lecture you on the importance of free speech for hours at a time. I never got to watch Studio 60, but the Newsroom has the same problem where they're all wringing their hands over "getting the news right" when we all know that that poo poo don't matter, except it's even worse in this case because the Newsroom is set in the real world's past, so you absolutely know that no matter how much the team agonizes over whether to identify the Boston Bomber correctly, whether they wait for the right source on the BP oil spill, or whether they're going to declare Gabby Giffords as dead or alive absolutely does not matter one loving bit because it's all already happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF-BZsrtoPs And this is exacerbated by poo poo like the Republican debate plotline where the network is trying to host an RNC debate, but you know that it cannot actually happen because... it already did not happen, so instead they have to make up this thing where McAvoy's questions are just too hot to handle for the candidates and the RNC pulls the plug because they're not actually interested in a "real" debate.
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Jun 9, 2019 01:49
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gradenko_2000 posted:I never got to watch Studio 60, but the Newsroom has the same problem where they're all wringing their hands over "getting the news right" when we all know that that poo poo don't matter, except it's even worse in this case because the Newsroom is set in the real world's past, so you absolutely know that no matter how much the team agonizes over whether to identify the Boston Bomber correctly, whether they wait for the right source on the BP oil spill, or whether they're going to declare Gabby Giffords as dead or alive absolutely does not matter one loving bit because it's all already happened. Chapo agonized over it, but when I went over the synopses myself, it's more horrifying than you could possibly imagine it's prestige television where Sorkin is doing the same thing I'm doing right now in looking at Wikipedia for ideas
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Jun 9, 2019 03:50
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TheChirurgeon posted:Part of it is that 30 Rock's first season is pretty bad. It took the show some time to find its footing but once it did, it got really funny and that helps a lot. Excellently said. The loving self importance schtick works when it's the White House, but not when it's about how ~important~ this lovely fake SNL show is supposed to be.
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Jun 9, 2019 04:02
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I want that podcast sorkin show they were talking about on chapo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pNyRPozymg
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Jun 9, 2019 04:43
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All of his shows are the same stupid poo poo. Sports Night tries to have the same gravitas surrounding two idiots anchoring Sports Center. The Newsroom is the worst of the bunch because it is the preachiest, while also attempting to attach the highest importance in the world to idiots doing a bad job at reporting the news while being colossal poo poo heads about it. I can't think of a single news event in my life time where the particular coverage from a specific station mattered at all. I'll mess up the quote, but at one point they speachify about how if they can announce the death of Bin Ladin a minute earlier than their whole careers have been worth while. Even in the show it doesn't matter even a little bit, and of course we know in real life the timing didn't matter. Hell, my memory is that that story was broken by superior newsman The Rock on twitter.
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Jun 9, 2019 04:49
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I've never seen The News except for that airplane clip and it's insanely cursed unbelievably lovely energy
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Jun 9, 2019 05:45
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Gunshow Poophole posted:I've never seen The News except for that airplane clip and it's insanely cursed sounds like you have content for the future!
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Jun 9, 2019 05:52
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Gunshow Poophole posted:I've never seen The News except for that airplane clip and it's insanely cursed Oh man you are missing the opening scene where WILL MCAVOY DESTROYS MILLENNIAL WITH LOGIC that every neoliberal boomer on the planet masturbates to on a regular basis
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Jun 9, 2019 12:10
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CrosspostingGunshow Poophole posted:
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Jun 10, 2019 00:36
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Gunshow Poophole posted:I've never seen The News except for that airplane clip and it's insanely cursed the clip where the old guy dies is incredible, like i had to rewatch it to see if i missed something
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Jun 10, 2019 02:56
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I will take a controversial stand here, but the worst scene in The Newsroom is where the idiot brings the gang in on a Saturday to lecture them about his bigfoot nonsense, and not only does no one break a chair over his head before throwing him out a window, but they all sit and listen. I know in my heart that Sorkin has done this, probably with something dumber than bigfoot, probably loaded to the gills with coke.
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Jun 10, 2019 19:29
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WampaLord posted:Crossposting I'd be down for doing this
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Jun 13, 2019 20:33
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TheChirurgeon posted:I'd be down for doing this will PM you because A) hell yeah and B) hell fuckin yeah dapperswindler if u reading this thread also don't think you're off the hook either my dude
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Jun 13, 2019 22:55
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