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CJacobs posted:Also, "it shouldn't be allowed because I might have done it" is a really disingenuous way to read my post dude CJacobs posted:I'm very glad public euthanasia isn't a thing and hopefully never will be because I might not've been able to resist with that kind of pain going on.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:18
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A CRUNK BIRD posted:It's what you said 
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Jun 10, 2019 05:21
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A CRUNK BIRD posted:It's what you said I'm glad for me personally that it will never be a thing because I would have a hard time resisting it myself dude come on. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 05:23 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 05:21
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CJacobs posted:I'm glad for me personally that it will never be a thing because I would have a hard time resisting it myself dude come on. I'm glad that countless people will suffer pointlessly so that you personally won't kill yourself shithead
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Jun 10, 2019 05:23
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A CRUNK BIRD posted:I'm glad that countless people will suffer pointlessly so that you personally won't kill yourself shithead I agreed that if there is no way for you to recover from your situation then the process should be left in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing. That was the whole point of me relating it to myself, I thought I was in such a situation when it turned out I was not. Someone literally two posts above me relayed that they too would have taken the option if it'd been available and are glad it was not
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Jun 10, 2019 05:23
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CJacobs posted:I agreed that if there is no way for you to recover from your situation then the process should be left in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing. That was the whole point of me relating it to myself, I thought I was in such a situation when it turned out I was not. Someone literally two posts above me relayed that they too would have taken the option if it'd been available and are glad it was not So who gives gives a person the right to die?
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Jun 10, 2019 05:30
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A CRUNK BIRD posted:So who gives gives a person the right to die? A death panel consisting of the Pope and two lesbians named Karen.
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Jun 10, 2019 05:42
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CJacobs posted:I agreed that if there is no way for you to recover from your situation then the process should be left in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing. That was the whole point of me relating it to myself, I thought I was in such a situation when it turned out I was not. Someone literally two posts above me relayed that they too would have taken the option if it'd been available and are glad it was not Okay. So why should the law prohibit a doctor from humanely assisting you to depart just because what's wrong with you is psychological rather than physical? If you have capacity and it's a genuine wish to die rather than suffer, what difference is there that makes euthanasia bad in the situation? If we're actually concerned with limiting suffering, it actually becomes a higher imperative to assist those with longer projected lifespans over those who're going to drop off any day now anyway - the person so traumatized they can't see anyone at all without being terrified despite years of therapy, who has decided that nope that's it, time to die, will probably outlive the terminal cancer patient with all other things being equal. Why should the cancer patient, who will suffer for a year or two at most, be permitted an easy death when the other - who might suffer an equivalent level of pain and discomfort - will endure for thirty, forty, fifty years?
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Jun 10, 2019 06:13
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Loomer posted:Okay. So why should the law prohibit a doctor from humanely assisting you to depart just because what's wrong with you is psychological rather than physical? If you have capacity and it's a genuine wish to die rather than suffer, what difference is there that makes euthanasia bad in the situation? If we're actually concerned with limiting suffering, it actually becomes a higher imperative to assist those with longer projected lifespans over those who're going to drop off any day now anyway - the person so traumatized they can't see anyone at all without being terrified despite years of therapy, who has decided that nope that's it, time to die, will probably outlive the terminal cancer patient with all other things being equal. Why should the cancer patient, who will suffer for a year or two at most, be permitted an easy death when the other - who might suffer an equivalent level of pain and discomfort - will endure for thirty, forty, fifty years? Because society has decided that mental illness is not really illness.
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Jun 10, 2019 06:18
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My neighbors are in their 80s. The wife had Alzheimer's and the husband is pretty frail and has a hypotension disorder where he might just pass out. Neither of them can legally drive. Their son lives halfway across the country. My father-in-law is in his 90s and in amazing physical shape but has Alzheimer's. He is fit and strong and used to going on long walks by himself. His wife is half his size. You are watching someone die in slow motion. It's a cruel disease that hurts the well at least as much as the sick. Alzheimer's is one disease that should show anyone that euthanasia could sometimes be a blessing. My mother-in-law had metastatic breast cancer in her bones and brain. She stopped eating and drinking in the nursing home because she was "ready to go home." It only took a few days for her to die but she suffered for it. Death is inevitable and people should be allowed to approach it on their own terms with dignity.
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Jun 10, 2019 06:57
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A CRUNK BIRD posted:I'm glad that countless people will suffer pointlessly so that you personally won't kill yourself shithead Aleph Null posted:My neighbors are in their 80s. The wife had Alzheimer's and the husband is pretty frail and has a hypotension disorder where he might just pass out. Neither of them can legally drive. Their son lives halfway across the country.
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Jun 10, 2019 07:14
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A CRUNK BIRD posted:I'm glad that countless people will suffer pointlessly so that you personally won't kill yourself shithead Really? You don't seem glad.
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Jun 10, 2019 07:20
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Terrible Opinions posted:So you're against the anti-suicide nets and fences on buildings and bridges I take it? good username post combo quote:How on earth would you get informed consent from someone who already has severe Alzheimer's? If you can't get that it's not euthanasia it's murder on behalf of the caretaker. They draw it up as a living will/given power of attorney to someone to enforce said living will.
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Jun 10, 2019 08:01
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That Dutch girl got brought up at my last staff meeting (I’m a social worker, this is the stuff we talk about) and of course the chud in the room took it as an opportunity to say “Oh, so I guess the healthcare over there isn’t any better, huh?” I can’t wait to correct them. The whole thing didn’t sit well with me and I’m so not surprised the story people over here were reading was wrong. Right to die legislation got shot down in my own state recently, and misinformation like this just fuels the religious and political backlash against it.
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Jun 10, 2019 08:17
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y'all better make it as easy as possible for me to kill myself or i might land on your head or, worse, keep posting
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Jun 10, 2019 08:17
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Terrible Opinions posted:So you're against the anti-suicide nets and fences on buildings and bridges I take it? As we all know, there is a 1:1 equivalency between anti-impulse suicide measures and banning medical assistance for the considered, deliberate, screened-for-capacity decision to terminate one's life.
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Jun 10, 2019 08:39
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Pvt.Scott posted:A death panel consisting of the Pope and two lesbians named Karen. They’re both named Karen individually, or they’re named Karen as a collective when they appear together in their capacity as members of the Omega Commission?
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Jun 10, 2019 12:47
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death sucks, i know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9D8dzl4zGk please enjoy this UFO video courtesy of Tom DeLonge American musician. then blast some art bell this eclectic adventure in the night coast to coast am. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOtmwfV2Z0 I know this fora is heavily American but for those, like me, who did not have coast to coast in their popular culture you gotta check him out. total unnerving spooky fun sleepy stuff. and if you are like me and you find yourself browsing this thread after midnight - he is a perfect companion.
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Jun 10, 2019 13:06
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Pirate Radar posted:They’re both named Karen individually, or they’re named Karen as a collective when they appear together in their capacity as members of the Omega Commission? The post of Karen, derived from Charon, is held by two democratically elected anarcho-communist lesbians on a bi-weekly basis. No single co-Karen can hold the post for more than 3 months in any given calendar year, though there are no term limits beyond this stipulation.
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Jun 10, 2019 14:06
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Terrible Opinions posted:How on earth would you get informed consent from someone who already has severe Alzheimer's? If you can't get that it's not euthanasia it's murder on behalf of the caretaker. this is precisely the sort of situation that makes me so invested in the right to die and why its horrifying to imagine not having that right/being prevented from ending your own life. if i ever am diagnosed with a disease that will destroy my mind and personality and ability to make informed decisions and who i am, you better believe i'm not sticking around to experience that, and someone forcibly keeping me alive is like a horror story scenario
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Jun 10, 2019 14:36
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Loling at the idea of me telling my doc I'm suicidal and him being so woke he asks how he can help
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Jun 10, 2019 14:46
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Terrible Opinions posted:How on earth would you get informed consent from someone who already has severe Alzheimer's? If you can't get that it's not euthanasia it's murder on behalf of the caretaker. That sort of thing is why it's extremely important to have a living will set up when you're still sound of mind. We can keep people alive for pretty absurd amounts of time when they should otherwise be dead. I imagine severe Alzheimer's is comparable to a persistent vegetative state; once you're so far gone that there's zero chance of recovery it's probably best to pull the plug but it can be hard to figure out the wishes of somebody that's that far gone. If somebody puts in writing "actually no don't keep me alive if I get that far gone" then it's pretty certain what their wishes were.
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Jun 10, 2019 14:54
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Terrible Opinions posted:So you're against the anti-suicide nets and fences on buildings and bridges I take it?
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Jun 10, 2019 15:23
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Killingyouguy! posted:Loling at the idea of me telling my doc I'm suicidal and him being so woke he asks how he can help Lol at the idea of telling my doctor I’ve been seeing for years that my pain is too great to live with and none of the treatments we have tried are effective and him being so broke he goes ‘well that sucks now get out and slit your wrists on your own time’. gently caress off out of here with your bullshit. Advocates for mental health euthanasia aren’t saying ‘oh, you got some sadbrains? Well, we’ll blow ‘em out for ya!’ It’s no different to physical health conditions and focused on the dignity of life, the desire to avert needless suffering, and respecting the will of people with capacity who decide, when faced with a life of unbearable suffering, that they would like a dignified, graceful exit.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:01
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All I know is everyone I've known who died of disease or "old age" spent a long time getting thinner, sleepless with pain, unable to eat anything decent, unable to recognize lifelong loved ones, having crying fits, filled with tubes, etc. For weeks, months, even a year. There was nothing for them to hold on for, nothing to look forward to, nobody who wanted to see them that way... If your every moment is about dying anyways, why not speed up the process? One bittersweet day with your family and friends, a drink or a shot in the arm, seems worlds better to me than withering away in hospice, draining away the money and emotional well-being of the family who will have to carry on regardless of how I go.
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Jun 10, 2019 16:44
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nocal posted:Autism is currently diagnosed on a behavioral basis; there is no currently recognized neurological or genetic basis for diagnosis. I appreciate the point of view that the world should change to accommodate people who are on the spectrum, because that would be nice. I also appreciate the point of view that people with an autism diagnosis do not necessarily have anything "wrong" with them, just as there is nothing inherently wrong with any person with any diagnosis. However the behaviors that some individuals develop (behaviors develop out of environmental relations and are not random or "for no reason") can range from stigmatizing to life-threatening. At the level of stigmatizing, would you be patient and understanding if the person bagging your groceries had a screaming tantrum for reasons you couldn't identify? At the level of life-threatening, should we allow an adult to gouge out his own eyes? Adults don't have "tantrums" and it's insulting and stigmatizing to treat them that way. Why is a person who's unable to handle the stress of bagging groceries working? Does he need the money? Did someone decide that he should be forced into a menial job to make him more "normal"? Would you allow a person having a psychotic episode to gouge out his own eyes? Of course not. So why would you treat an autistic person differently? Why is the person in such distress that he's trying to gouge out his own eyes? Is he being abused or was he abused in the past? Is he in pain? Is he appropriately medicated? Has anyone tried to figure out what might help him get to a point where he's not in extreme distress, or have they simply restrained him to prevent him from physically hurting himself? (Restraints can themselves be traumatic.) As a general rule, when trying to imagine how society should treat an autistic adult, imagine to yourself that this person is a well-educated, respectable, middle-class professional - maybe your friend or family member - who is having a temporary psychotic break. Then imagine the level of respect and care you would want that person to get* - while still being protected from physical harm, from hurting other people, and from having to fend for themselves on the street. * yes, it's hosed up that mentally ill people who aren't educated/wealthy/professional/etc, not to mention non-white, don't get treated as well, too. Similar issue. Also, this is a good read that covers most of these issues: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/clearing-up-some-misconceptions-about-neurodiversity/
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Jun 10, 2019 17:05
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Loomer posted:Lol at the idea of telling my doctor I’ve been seeing for years that my pain is too great to live with and none of the treatments we have tried are effective and him being so broke he goes ‘well that sucks now get out and slit your wrists on your own time’.
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Jun 10, 2019 17:41
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Brawnfire posted:All I know is everyone I've known who died of disease or "old age" spent a long time getting thinner, sleepless with pain, unable to eat anything decent, unable to recognize lifelong loved ones, having crying fits, filled with tubes, etc. For weeks, months, even a year. THIS^ unfortunately I've seen so many old people die Even ones who had seemingly full happy lives--as your body deteriorates and everyone you know dies-- its horrible, the suffering can last for YEARS. Eventually we will have common sense euthanasia on demand laws for the sick and elderly but it will be for financial reasons that it finally happens. 
guestimate has a new favorite as of 17:47 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 17:45
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PetraCore posted:I mean to be fair there are absolutely people who would advocate for extremely permissive euthanasia because they think ill people are a drain. Not anyone in this thread, but I think that's what scares people. Exactly, I'm sorry for getting angry I've just seen way too many idiots argue 'why even bother trying to treat the depressed, how do you really know they're not of sound mind, if they say they want to die then respect their liberty and help them get it over with so they're out of the way' E: plus isn't it the case in the Netherlands that depressed people just network online to identify the doctors (bc you need the approval of 2) with the laxest definitions of needless suffering? That seems like it ends up being a perverse way to attract more clients Killingyouguy! has a new favorite as of 18:06 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 18:03
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Killingyouguy! posted:Exactly, I'm sorry for getting angry I've just seen way too many idiots argue 'why even bother trying to treat the depressed, how do you really know they're not of sound mind, if they say they want to die then respect their liberty and help them get it over with so they're out of the way' Some depressed people want to easily die, therefore no one gets to die no matter how genuine, rational, and consistent their wish for an end is? Yes, that sounds much better than reforming the system of approvals. Also, if thats the case, I’m sure there’s evidence for it you can provide.
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Jun 10, 2019 18:23
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pookel posted:Adults don't have "tantrums" You've never worked retail, I take it.
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Jun 10, 2019 19:22
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Khizan posted:You've never worked retail, I take it.  I can't tell you how many baby boomer white ladies I've seen throw a loving fit like a 6 year old And I worked at a men's clothing store
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Jun 10, 2019 19:26
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Khizan posted:You've never worked retail, I take it.  OK, autistic adults having meltdowns are not "throwing tantrums" .... but I can't speak for entitled white ladies.
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Jun 10, 2019 20:30
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ElGroucho posted:
What, you expect their large adult sons to figure out clothes shopping?
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Jun 10, 2019 22:50
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As someone's who has also worked retail, there's a certain customer, 40-55 or so and wearing expensive clothing, who will melt the gently caress down in front of God and everyone if they are even slightly inconvenienced. Like, threatens to get you fired because you shortchanged them by a dime or accidentally grabbed Model 46A when they clearly* told you several** times that they wanted Model 56A***. *They were talking on the phone with someone the entire time and vaguely gestured at what they wanted. **When you confirmed with them what they wanted, they dramatically put down their phone, glared angrily at you and said "yeah whatever". ***They said they wanted Model 46A.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:12
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Loomer posted:As we all know, there is a 1:1 equivalency between anti-impulse suicide measures and banning medical assistance for the considered, deliberate, screened-for-capacity decision to terminate one's life. Like the person I'm quoting literally directly supported just letting depressed people off themselves rather than get treatment.
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Jun 11, 2019 04:20
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Azathoth posted:As someone's who has also worked retail, there's a certain customer, 40-55 or so and wearing expensive clothing, A general note: that person is a GenXer, not a Boomer. But yes, we can be assholes too.
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Jun 11, 2019 04:26
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AlbieQuirky posted:A general note: that person is a GenXer, not a Boomer. It's that perpetual moving age bracket where they've got kids old enough to be involved in a ton of activities but not old enough to have a meaningful degree of independence. Life turns into a perpetual log roll where it's all they can do to stay balanced, and so any minor hiccup becomes a major disaster. They used up all their patience before they left the house, so the first person who can't fight back is really gonna get it.
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Jun 11, 2019 05:10
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Terrible Opinions posted:I'd say there is between someone who is okay with giving depressed people and traumatized people who didn't seem to get any form of treatment means to kill themselves. Where? Show the class where they said "Depressed people should be allowed to kill themselves instead of receiving treatment"
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Jun 11, 2019 05:56
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Tashilicious posted:Where? Show the class where they said "Depressed people should be allowed to kill themselves instead of receiving treatment" A CRUNK BIRD posted:I'm glad that countless people will suffer pointlessly so that you personally won't kill yourself shithead
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Jun 11, 2019 06:05
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