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It’s easy. Give two weeks. All you have to say is “I was offered a position and accepted because I’ll have an opportunity to <something you couldn’t do at current position>. Here’s my plan to ensure a smooth transition over the next two weeks: <projects you’ll finish, unfinished things you’ll hand off to someone else>. I’m thankful for my time here and I’d like to stay in touch.” This way they can’t try to get you in a bidding war. You shouldn’t say anything negative - there’s no need to burn bridges even if you don’t like your current company. You never know who you might cross paths with down the road.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:34
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So my company got acquired within 3 months of me starting.... again. I swear I’m going to spend more of my career filling out onboarding forms than actually doing work and unable to actually spend much time in start-ups despite my efforts. What’s everyone else’s start-up exit rate? I’m at 4/5 now and I don’t know if that’s good or bad given the stage I show up. I’ve started typically at employee counts between 20 - 100 and this was one of the largest so I actually didn’t expect an acquisition and wanted to grow and learn and all that for a few years at least. I honestly don’t feel like the experiences of constant acquisition have been good for my career either as engineer or leader and I have completely horrible experiences with big companies with no exception. Options, suggestions?
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Jun 6, 2019 00:12
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Just tell him exactly why you're leaving if he asks. I found it satisfying when I left a toxic place.
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Jun 6, 2019 00:16
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Semi-related to leaving a toxic place: I'm trying to effect a lateral move within the same company (different part of the organization) because my relationship with my manager got super toxic about two months ago. I heard from another engineer who has done this before that when an IC accepts a new position in the same company it is the employee's current manager that dictates the transfer date and not the employee or the destination manager. Is that usual? I've left several companies wholesale but never done an internal transfer. That seems like it could be problematic when one of the reasons for transferring is that one's current relationship with their manager got hosed up.
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Jun 6, 2019 00:29
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necrobobsledder posted:So my company got acquired within 3 months of me starting.... again. I swear I’m going to spend more of my career filling out onboarding forms than actually doing work and unable to actually spend much time in start-ups despite my efforts. What’s everyone else’s start-up exit rate? I’m at 4/5 now and I don’t know if that’s good or bad given the stage I show up. I’ve started typically at employee counts between 20 - 100 and this was one of the largest so I actually didn’t expect an acquisition and wanted to grow and learn and all that for a few years at least. I honestly don’t feel like the experiences of constant acquisition have been good for my career either as engineer or leader and I have completely horrible experiences with big companies with no exception. Options, suggestions? Do you have to leave now? Will the new owner fire you all? Because if you don't really have to bail out, stay a while and see what's up. It could be horrible, true, but until you know for a fact one way or the other is not worth fretting over it.
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Jun 6, 2019 01:07
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csammis posted:Semi-related to leaving a toxic place: I'm trying to effect a lateral move within the same company (different part of the organization) because my relationship with my manager got super toxic about two months ago. I heard from another engineer who has done this before that when an IC accepts a new position in the same company it is the employee's current manager that dictates the transfer date and not the employee or the destination manager. Is that usual? I've left several companies wholesale but never done an internal transfer. That seems like it could be problematic when one of the reasons for transferring is that one's current relationship with their manager got hosed up. It makes some kind of sense. If you're sticking with the company, they're assuming you don't want to leave your current team in a lurch by dropping out on the new manager's whim. They're also assuming the manager is going to work with other folks in good faith on a smooth transition, so if they cackle and claim you have to stay shackled to a desk for 6 more months it's probably not gonna fly. Since your other option is "leave the company" you should be able to get support from someone internally besides the new manager. Are you still on good terms with a skip level? Is there a peer of your manager that you could reach out to?
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Jun 6, 2019 01:22
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"Your current manager controls when you leave the team" is bad from a power dynamics perspective. There are managers who treat their reports as a little fief and try to make sure that none of them ever leave or get promoted. If you find yourself on a team with such a manager, you'll absolutely want to bail, but that's kind of difficult if the manager has control over if/when you leave!
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Jun 6, 2019 02:09
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I am contemplating an offer from a company that offers a significant raise with a few downsides, and I'm thinking that these downsides are enough to not want to take the offer -- the raise is nice but I have a few other things in the works, as well. The job is almost exclusively Python and Django, and while apparently one team wanted me to be their data modeling guy, the other team won out and that's where I'd be headed. The raise is close to 40%, which is nice! They also pay for an unlimited Metrocard, which is also a good benefit. But good god, there are so many red flags. Crunch time just accepted as part of the job, the manager I'd report to being one of the more grating people I've ever met, and really, a sense that I couldn't really technically develop in a way I'd like -- zero opportunities to work with anything other than Python or Django. Kind of annoying, really, because they also had the whole interview process run an hour over the time I was promised and scheduled for -- get your poo poo together. It is nice, though, to be in a situation where I can turn down such an offer.
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Jun 6, 2019 02:59
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If you're already comfortably middle class, receiving 40% extra pay doesn't mean you'll end up with 40% higher quality of life. Money is good, but so is not hating every waking moment of your life. Although there are probably a billion other variables in your life that may affect how much you're willing to sacrifice short term happiness for more financial stability?
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Jun 6, 2019 03:19
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Xik posted:If you're already comfortably middle class, receiving 40% extra pay doesn't mean you'll end up with 40% higher quality of life. Money is good, but so is not hating every waking moment of your life. Still, if it's the only offer, I'm thinking about it. And I'm wary of using it as leverage at my current place, because there's always the possibility they can't actually get me what I'd be happy with, and so I'd be stuck with that choice. (it's highly unlikely I'll take it, almost solely because the manager I'd work under seems like a singularly awful person to work for...crunch would suck but this guy would make my life miserable from day one) This is more just thinking and considering the options at this point, the reality is that this place just rubs me the wrong way and I gotta listen to my gut. Ghost of Reagan Past fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 03:55
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Doghouse posted:Just tell him exactly why you're leaving if he asks. I found it satisfying when I left a toxic place. Or if you don't want to go out guns blazing just say something like "This seemed like the best move to grow my career at this time." As bullshit as corporate america is, anyone that begrudges you for "growing your career" isn't worth keeping a bridge too anyway. Anyone worth staying in contact with will be happy/supportive and the rest are toxic and not worth loosing sleep over.
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Jun 6, 2019 04:11
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:this place just rubs me the wrong way and I gotta listen to my gut. Yes, listen to your gut. Every time I ignored my gut, I regretted it.
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Jun 6, 2019 06:03
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cliffy posted:Google is continuing its metamorphosis to ‘past its prime, giant, at least benignly evil, overly bureaucratic corporation’. You're not wrong. Doghouse posted:Just tell him exactly why you're leaving if he asks. I found it satisfying when I left a toxic place. "It was a good opportunity to say nothing, so I did" (paraphrase) is one of my favorite literary phrases. I've profitably applied it many times in my career (not so much on the intarwebs). Xik posted:If you're already comfortably middle class, receiving 40% extra pay doesn't mean you'll end up with 40% higher quality of life. Money is good, but so is not hating every waking moment of your life. This is why you should always ask for equity (assuming you're not just working for some scammer "startup"). Equity in a real traded company is how you go from wageslave to actually having some financial independence without having to go full entrepreneur. 40% more equity can easily mean 400% more money in the bank a decade later, or a lot more. User fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 08:55
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User posted:40% more equity can easily mean 400% more money in the bank a decade later, or a lot more. It can also mean a lot less money in the bank, if you were working for Skype in the early 2000's for example.
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Jun 6, 2019 09:17
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Equity in a pre-IPO company is usually a lottery ticket. Not a Mega Millions lottery ticket, nowadays, with long vesting cliffs and a common/preferred share dichotomy becoming the norm among venture-backed startups, but more of a pile of scratchoffs. Obviously evaluate any equity offer on its own merits, but have a healthy skepticism of the actual value of whatever you're being offered unless it's RSUs in a publicly traded company. Consider arguing for larger bonuses and/or a signing bonus instead, especially if the company is not yet breaking even
Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 11:36
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Volguus posted:Do you have to leave now? Will the new owner fire you all? Because if you don't really have to bail out, stay a while and see what's up. It could be horrible, true, but until you know for a fact one way or the other is not worth fretting over it. All I know is right now at least I'm happy enough to be acquired by a unicorn I respect, financials look solid enough to stake years on, and that I'm going to be asking for more RSUs or grants instead of options or base salary like I had during comp re-negotiation for retention even with the looming specter of a recession.
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Jun 6, 2019 13:02
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Doghouse posted:Just tell him exactly why you're leaving if he asks. I found it satisfying when I left a toxic place. I'm leaving because my boss is a moron and I've been checked out for almost a year now after he fired a super talented person off of our team because she rubbed him the wrong way. He also eliminated the technical interview process I put together and has been hiring people in the past couple of months with absolutely no technical screening. He says he can just "tell" whether or not a developer is good when he talks to them. He is not and has never been a developer. I could go on about how awful he is but that's enough for now. I would love to lob fire bombs and tell him he sucks but I don't think it'd accomplish much aside from making me feel temporarily better. And then I would definitely hope I don't encounter him again in the future. I definitely would never work for him again but I can't control if he's in an organization that I'm also in in the future and spreads nonsense and bullshit gossip about me. biceps crimes fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Jun 6, 2019 |
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Jun 6, 2019 15:07
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Sinten posted:I would love to lob fire bombs and tell him he sucks but I don't think it'd accomplish much aside from making me feel temporarily better. And then I would definitely hope I don't encounter him again in the future. I definitely would never work for him again but I can't control if he's in an organization that I'm also in in the future and spreads nonsense and bullshit gossip about me. Yeah I think you have the right idea. Going out guns blazing seems like it would be satisfying but it almost never is worth it. If you feel like ranting, I would write it all up as a letter and then just keep the letter for yourself. I have a couple of these documents and they are nice to read a year later or so, just to see how far I've come / remind myself all the insane details that tend to fade over time.
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Jun 6, 2019 17:16
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vonnegutt posted:Yeah I think you have the right idea. Going out guns blazing seems like it would be satisfying but it almost never is worth it. If you feel like ranting, I would write it all up as a letter and then just keep the letter for yourself. I have a couple of these documents and they are nice to read a year later or so, just to see how far I've come / remind myself all the insane details that tend to fade over time. I've only seen it done well once. Another dev was grossly underpaid and asked for a raise. His manager told him he was already being paid above market, so he went and got another job at the salary he wanted. He basically told her how poorly she managed the situation when he gave notice.
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Jun 6, 2019 21:42
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I ended up parting on amicable terms. He did tell me to not tell anyone, and that he would announce it in our team meeting next week. A couple of hours after our call, my buddy came up to me and shook my hand and said congrats. Apparently my boss called him in a panic. Sooo I called everyone else I've worked with over the years to tell them I'm leaving on my own terms since my boss violated our agreement that we would share it in our team meeting next week. I was super irritated that he was telling people without me present and with his framing.
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Jun 6, 2019 23:59
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Sinten posted:I ended up parting on amicable terms. He did tell me to not tell anyone, and that he would announce it in our team meeting next week. A couple of hours after our call, my buddy came up to me and shook my hand and said congrats. Apparently my boss called him in a panic. Sooo I called everyone else I've worked with over the years to tell them I'm leaving on my own terms since my boss violated our agreement that we would share it in our team meeting next week. I was super irritated that he was telling people without me present and with his framing. Sounds like a great guy
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Jun 7, 2019 12:08
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Sinten posted:I ended up parting on amicable terms. He did tell me to not tell anyone, and that he would announce it in our team meeting next week. A couple of hours after our call, my buddy came up to me and shook my hand and said congrats. Apparently my boss called him in a panic. Sooo I called everyone else I've worked with over the years to tell them I'm leaving on my own terms since my boss violated our agreement that we would share it in our team meeting next week. I was super irritated that he was telling people without me present and with his framing. You're totally in the right to do that. But it could be that he was reaching out to your buddy with, "Oh god Sinten is leaving, would you take on some of their role until we can backfill? It's asking a lot of you but it's really important to me." So that during the meeting he could announce, "Sinten is leaving and we wish them well. Buddy here will be overseeing the Foo project and will be reaching out to you shortly."
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Jun 7, 2019 16:43
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Yeah you might have made yourself look like an rear end there Sinten.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:56
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I'm not sure that boss deserves the benefit of any doubt.
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Jun 7, 2019 16:59
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What good does it to you either way anyway? Part on the best terms possible and make a note to keep him at arm’s length in the future. Thankfully I haven’t written off anyone honestly despite terrible jobs here and there but if I had someone remotely toxic around me I’d just try to do my work and move on. Pay no more attention to the drama than the person that aggrieved you and at least they can’t take away any more of your time.
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Jun 7, 2019 22:40
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I've decided it's time to have another go at Haskell. Any suggestions for a good book for someone who already has plenty of functional lisp experience?
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Jun 8, 2019 01:03
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I like this one: http://haskellbook.com/ Feel free to skip over the first chapter on lambda calculus, though.
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Jun 8, 2019 19:56
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Don't skip the lambda calculus part, but don't spend too much time on it at first. It's worth reading more in depth later on.
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Jun 8, 2019 20:03
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Continuing my quitting story: Today my boss calls me and is being his typical aggressive/bully-ish self. He tells me I need to come in every day until my last day (I have a work from home arrangement for 2-3 days a week) and implies that I should work overtime to meet deadlines (self imposed, arbitrary, and not a hard cutoff for any conferences or conventions or contracts) and to also document and transfer my stuff. He accuses me of being a bad employee that wants to "cut and run" despite the fact that I have been working diligently and have already done a lot of the transfer work and documentation that needed to be done. The rest of the team knows that this guy sucks and most people are job hunting. I was blunt with him but he didn't listen and continued to accuse me and speak in circles for 20 minutes before hanging up because he was late for a meeting. My previous boss quit less than a month ago and provides references for my time here, as well as one of the technical leads. Both of these leaders know the guy I quit to sucks and is toxic. Is there any reason I shouldn't just cut this courtesy two week period down to 3 days and hand my poo poo in tomorrow? He stresses me out and is disrespectful and I really don't want to deal with this nonsense while I'm excited and mentally gearing up for my next job.
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Jun 10, 2019 20:25
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Sinten posted:Continuing my quitting story: If you have no legal obligation and the only bridge you burn is with an rear end in a top hat like this, just cut and run. He expects everyone to cut and run, treats then like assholes for doing so and then gets proven right. Ugh, I hate those people, they remind me of myself.
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Jun 10, 2019 21:29
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Sinten posted:Continuing my quitting story: Wow this is horrible! 2 weeks notice is purely a professional niceity but I don't think I've ever seen it actually required. You are entirely within your rights to say Friday is your last day and walk out, but (as Keetron said) be careful to not burn bridges with the folks you do want to retain a relationship with at the company that aren't privy to why your boss is so poo poo.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:36
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It's easy to take it as a personal insult when someone calls you a bad employee, but it's actually completely okay to be a bad employee as measured by idiotic standards.
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Jun 10, 2019 23:44
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Sinten posted:Continuing my quitting story: The only possible value this dude could have is if he were doing your reference, and perhaps getting your last two weeks of pay. Since he's calling you a bad employee already, this guy isn't going to give you a good reference. Just quit tomorrow.
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Jun 11, 2019 00:28
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In many years of work, I can count on one hand the number of truly bad employees I've encountered. Sounds like your boss is one of them. I assume he has similarly poor professional relationships with his other reports? Some companies do an exit interview, so if you want to fire a parting shot that's one way to do it. There is a fine line to walk there to remain professional though. That said, I have seen many times where an employee is not the right fit for a position, even though they would be a good or excellent employee in a different one. User fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 00:48
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Yeah this guy is toxic. 7 of the 8 engineers we had a year ago have quit. I'm the second to last remaining. He's been hiring a bunch of yes men and trashed our interview process we had. There are a lot of war stories to tell but he sucks and all of my coworkers understand he sucks. He stuck an in-person meeting on my calendar tomorrow and I am considering recording it to protect myself, not sure about the legality around that. This has simply been the worst experience I've had quitting a job, and I've had many.
biceps crimes fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 00:57
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If I have someone bad around me I usually aim my grievances at not the person but the peers and the manager. Depending upon how good the individual is at politicking or how awful management is already the results swing wildly between swift resignation or rapid promotion. I’m just glad I’ve never been directly on a team with actually awful people (awful companies in general yes, but my immediate coworkers have been cool to be with always and my comrades).
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Jun 11, 2019 01:03
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Assuming you’ve already got a new gig lined up and have got other connections and references in your network, gently caress that guy you don’t owe him anything. If he doesn’t want to play nice, you don’t have to either. Just be aware of what you are doing, but sounds like a guy you never want to work for/with again.
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Jun 11, 2019 01:44
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I'd say just show up and coast and get 2 weeks of pay for reading hacker news and wikipedia since it sounds like you already handled the responsible handoff tasks for the poor remaining chumps.
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Jun 11, 2019 02:37
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Everyone is correct about not worrying about a reference from this guy. However I would stick around long enough to make sure that your peers have everything they need for the transition. Most of my networking is former coworkers and they've been the best leads / sources of information about the local job scene. Don't let one douchey manager hurt your relationship with any remaining coworkers you respect.
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Jun 11, 2019 02:47
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Sinten posted:Yeah this guy is toxic. 7 of the 8 engineers we had a year ago have quit. I'm the second to last remaining. He's been hiring a bunch of yes men and trashed our interview process we had. There are a lot of war stories to tell but he sucks and all of my coworkers understand he sucks. He stuck an in-person meeting on my calendar tomorrow and I am considering recording it to protect myself, not sure about the legality around that. This has simply been the worst experience I've had quitting a job, and I've had many. I'm assuming you're in the 'States. Unless a lawyer has told you that it's legal, I wouldn't record anything secretly. The legality varies from state to state. You're already on your way out the door, the power your boss has over you is basically nonexistent, whatever worst-case scenarios are in your head all but impossible, and as others have said, you don't have to put up with any bullshit.
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Jun 11, 2019 06:41
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