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Main Paineframe posted:It's not really "mechanical demand", since I'd honestly say many of the TF2 characters require a lot more of that. It's more that because of the slow movement and high healthpools in OW, as well as the fact that guns have very little burst fire and abilities have enforced cooldowns, positioning both as an individual and as a team member matter a lot more. A solo character can't carry because you need focus fire to take anyone down except for the DPSes, who can typically be wiped out by a stiff breeze if they don't have both a tank and a support backing them up. Yeah I mean that's pretty much what I dislike about OW, ult economy is boring (says the medic main) and DM is de-emphasized in favor of whoever has abilities off cooldown. Also, the rock-paper-scissors is really firm, if you are getting hard countered there's literally nothing you can do about it except switch, you aren't going to ever win an un-favored matchup against a class with abilities that counter yours. In TF2 your "abilities" are your ammo counter and it's not a hard cooldown, you can load a few shots in the middle of battle if you need, at the cost of that being a less efficient way to load ammo. And the fact that the only real "team advantage" is overheals and uber (and I guess sentry) limits the amount of advantage any one team can have over another, where in Overwatch you're potentially going up against six players with I-win buttons that need to be forced or countered. And skilled play or favorable terrain can easily overcome an unfavorable matchup, particularly in non-comp play. I just think it's a bad feeling that you lost a team fight because you had ult disadvantage or because you ran out of buttons to press. I guess in the end it's all a different kind of "outplayed" but it's not as fun as having good core DM mechanics that let a good player win an unfavored matchup or a tilted team advantage. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 10, 2019 |
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Jun 10, 2019 18:34
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I think it's pretty well understood by this point that there isn't much overlap between the things to like about TF2 and the things to like about OW.
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Jun 10, 2019 18:43
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Paul MaudDib posted:ult economy is boring (says the medic main) I think a big problem with OW's ult economy is just the fact that you don't lose them when you die. They're not a reward, they're an inevitability. They cannot be stopped, and all members of the team have them. Meanwhile in TF2, the same concept exists: a powerful ability that takes a long time to charge up. But only the medic has it, they lose it all when they die, and TF2 medics are fragile in a way that not a single member of the OW cast can be. Any class in TF2 other than medic can kill a medic in 2 hits, taking 2 seconds at the very most. No shields to hide behind, either. And then it's all gone, you come back with 0%. Ubercharge is your reward for surviving and doing your job, and if you gently caress up, it's gone.
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Jun 10, 2019 18:51
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TF2 was a beautifully balanced game that got sloppy as time went on, whereas OW sucked from the start. Goddamn the maps are bad. Like, say what you will about the shittiness of TF2's starting maps, at least even 2fort has sewers to get into the enemy base if you don't feel like crossing the bridge! No OW map has that, it's just pure chokepoints.
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Jun 10, 2019 18:52
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Doctor Reynolds posted:TF2 was a beautifully balanced game that got sloppy as time went on, whereas OW sucked from the start. Goddamn the maps are bad. Like, say what you will about the shittiness of TF2's starting maps, at least even 2fort has sewers to get into the enemy base if you don't feel like crossing the bridge! No OW map has that, it's just pure chokepoints. I thought overwatch was a little rough, at the start, but also that there was a lot to like in there. then it turned out that all the stuff I liked were oversights by the devs that were then corrected and that the rough stuff was all on purpose
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Jun 10, 2019 18:54
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What Overwatch really needs is random crits
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Jun 10, 2019 18:54
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Doctor Reynolds posted:TF2 was a beautifully balanced game that got sloppy as time went on, whereas OW sucked from the start. Goddamn the maps are bad. Like, say what you will about the shittiness of TF2's starting maps, at least even 2fort has sewers to get into the enemy base if you don't feel like crossing the bridge! No OW map has that, it's just pure chokepoints. overwatch has "alternate routes" but overwatch's idea of an "alternate route" is "another door 5 feet to the right of the main door" but also more importantly, since your survivability gets multiplied to extreme levels if you're standing by other teammates, having another team member split off to take an alt route and hit the enemy team's flank usually pans out very poorly, and it's frequently best to just have your entire team walk through the same door, which rather obviates the value of alternate paths
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Jun 10, 2019 19:19
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Overwatch has so much variety and that's part of the problem. There's no one class that can handle pretty much any fight (Soldier) also 6v6 is terrible and stressful for everyone involved
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Jun 10, 2019 19:20
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ninjewtsu posted:overwatch has "alternate routes" but overwatch's idea of an "alternate route" is "another door 5 feet to the right of the main door" alternate routes in overwatch exist but are vestigial: everything about the game encourages teams to clump together into a big group to maintain the greatest coverage of defences and healing. If this clump isn't located at the objective, you lose.
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Jun 10, 2019 19:20
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RareAcumen posted:Overwatch has so much variety and that's part of the problem. There's no one class that can handle pretty much any fight (Soldier) I too think it's good game design to have one or two classes that are obviously the best picks. All I know is that as a scrub-tier poo poo player I find Overwatch more fun than TF2, despite its terrible map design. What I'd really like is a TF3 but lol Valve.
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Jun 10, 2019 19:54
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Makes me wonder. Would tf3 story continue the gravel wars?
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Jun 10, 2019 20:12
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TF3: The ghosts of the Mann bros start up competing currencies RedCoin and BluCoin. The merc crew is back, except for Scout who passed away in the 80's.
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Jun 10, 2019 20:20
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I'm pretty sure soldier 76 is meant to fulfill the "good in most any situation or comp" role
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Jun 10, 2019 20:33
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ninjewtsu posted:I'm pretty sure soldier 76 is meant to fulfill the "good in most any situation or comp" role Except he sucks cuz his gameplay is "shoot at a big shield for twenty minutes".
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Jun 10, 2019 20:46
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ninjewtsu posted:Over watch is a game where I feel like I can never kill enemy players because of tanks and supports, and I also feel like I get one shot constantly. Someone said earlier that OW'S design philosophy includes "a dps shouldn't be able to kill another dps before they have time to react" but like even ignoring widow and hanzo (sniper characters in multiplayer fps need to die), doomfist can kill any nontank in half a second (generally the punch+wall hit is a oneshot), McCree "technically" can't oneshot you but can stun you, then unload the entire clip of his gun with a single button press before your stun is over, a reaper behind your "technically" kills you in as many shots as a scout in that position can kill you, but he has 2.5x scout's fire rate so he'll definitely kill you before you've even figured out that you're being shot in the back, a mei thats gotten close to you will freeze you before you could conceivably get away, and then oneshot you with her altfire so it's slightly more fair in that you could theoretically 180 and snapshot her face if you're playing as a character that can oneshot her. Which uh, means you're a character that can oneshot another character. Yeah, no one can outright one-shot (except for the snipers and the suicide-chargers). But because of the supreme importance of positioning and team support, you can very easily be forced into a situation where (even though it takes them three or four shots to kill you) death is inevitable and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it...unless you have an escape ability that makes you invincible or teleports you away.
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Jun 10, 2019 20:51
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ninjewtsu posted:I'm pretty sure soldier 76 is meant to fulfill the "good in most any situation or comp" role For the most part sure, but if you're fighting someone with a shield then not so much. Not a whole lot of shield breakers in that game as far as I'm aware. Not really a problem for TF2 since all the shields only reduce damage instead of absorb it
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Jun 10, 2019 21:01
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Soldier was considered an incredibly good shield breaker until they changed the in game "damage done" metric and associated metal to not count shield damage anymore. Then, overnight, suddenly it was only worthwhile for roadhog, reaper, and bastion to ever shoot at shields. I always found that pretty amusing.
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Jun 10, 2019 22:15
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soldier 76 is really bad right now because he sucks rear end against the current meta comps(stacked tanks and healing) unless they change things really drastically damage heros will never be in a healthy place. one of the other longest lasting meta comps was dive, which was damage based but it too was basically just a reaction to how difficult it is to individually kill someone in OW(and so dive is all about taking multiple heros with strong mobility and jumping on a single enemy to split them from their team and focus them down quickly, usually a support to cut their healing(and then they introduced a braindead support hero that specifically counters that and now playing damage heros just sucks compared to tanks and supports no matter what))
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Jun 11, 2019 00:22
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IronicDongz posted:soldier 76 is really bad right now because he sucks rear end against the current meta comps(stacked tanks and healing) dive was still tank based, it was always D.va and Winston
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Jun 11, 2019 00:27
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it wasn't majority damage heros but at least they were equally represented and damage was actually done fast enough for people to die in a fairly timely fashion.
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Jun 11, 2019 02:30
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The only thing Soldier 76 has ever been good for is driving off other DPSes without needing much team support, because even though his general damage output is rear end, he can pop a self-heal ability and be effectively invincible in a 1v1 until the healing wears off. He just can't handle tanks, because it takes him like ten seconds of sustained fire to do enough damage to kill one.
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Jun 11, 2019 12:36
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Been messing around with my cosmetics so here, have some nightmare fuel:
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Jul 4, 2019 01:16
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What combination is that? I have a friend that would dig it.
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Jul 4, 2019 01:40
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QwertySanchez posted:I remember someone buying Carpet Johnson an account. turned out the whole "lol get wrecked human being" thing in his videos wasn't entirely ironic and he didn't last long.. I think. Do you really think he thought pyro was a viable class in 6's? The entire thing was a joke, but the bigger joke was how well he was able to do against "good" 6's players that didn't like having their rote chess match fudged up with silly gimmicks. I'm also a big fan of thief, and everyone hated him too. I like people that can take "the way real pro's do it" and turn that upside down, even if by being really unpredictable in stupid ways. And I would encourage them to do it, even in an environment where some of us are still struggling to learn the ropes of 6's pushes. The ropes are for suckers. The most consistently good player I've ever played in MGE is not any of the toppest-top invite level players, it's carpet's BFF. Spello. Wilka. Whatever he's going by. That dude is the anti-carpet, he does nothing but practice and play hard to COUNTER bullshit. He is vanilla tryhard supreme. And of course he's carpet's best bro.
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Jul 5, 2019 07:21
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Sanctum posted:Who are you? I thought he bought his own account and I'm sorry, he wasn't ready =( But his irony is just more internalized and heartfelt than yours. not gonna lie, this might just be the funniest post in this thread
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Jul 5, 2019 07:30
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Sanctum posted:Who are you? I thought he bought his own account and I'm sorry, he wasn't ready =( But his irony is just more internalized and heartfelt than yours. There are babies alive right now who weren’t yet conceived when the post you’re responding to was made. But anyway yeah, sucks when people miss the deep hilarity of your slurs because they aren’t ironic of heart like you are.
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Jul 5, 2019 07:35
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Sanctum posted:Who are you? I thought he bought his own account and I'm sorry, he wasn't ready =( But his irony is just more internalized and heartfelt than yours. sir this is the overwatch thread
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Jul 5, 2019 07:39
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who are you? who am i? help
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Jul 5, 2019 12:43
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"This is a hat simulator, not a hate simulator!"
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Jul 5, 2019 13:13
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Do we still have a TF2 broker? I lost my job and desperately need to pay some rent and am considering cashing out some of my backpack. Most of it is plain and worthless, except two unusuals and a full vintage gun collection (including shogun). https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198011269859
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Jul 6, 2019 23:23
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I mean, carpet posted a post-ironic pro-Trump vid fairly recently. But sure, it's all a joke.
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Jul 7, 2019 00:40
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Oh cool, there is a TF2 thread. I reinstalled TF2 last weekend to earn points for the Summer Sale, having not played the game in quite some time (last recorded achievement I could find was from 2014). A lot seems to have changed. It looks like some things have been adopted from Overwatch, like the casual mode matchmaking and ranking, competitive mode (I have played Overwatch, but...). There's also the Contracts thing, which I don't remember. I've been doing some of the Pyro-related ones, and that's bringing back old, painful memories of trying to meet achievement criteria for new items (which makes me wonder if achievement farming servers are still a thing). I've played the game on-and-off ever since it came out with the Orange Box, and I've never once got a Unsual weapon (i.e. the ones that count number of kills or whatever). Then again, I've got a ton of unopened crates, since I've never put any real money into the game (I spent a few dollars of leftover Steam credit, since I have the Mann Co. hat.), so that's probably why I don't have one. Is there anything I should look to do or get?
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Jul 8, 2019 01:27
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do not put money into this dead rear end game, that's my advice
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Jul 8, 2019 01:33
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here's how to get what you want in tf2: buy a key find someone to give you 50-60 refined metal for your key buy what you want with the metal instead of playing a lottery - you can afford every single standard weapon in the game and at least a hat and misc for every single class in the game. but for reals, this man knows whats up: Peanut President posted:do not put money into this dead rear end game, that's my advice
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Jul 8, 2019 01:38
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yeah i kind of wish valve would do people a favor and tell them it's on life support instead of this 'totally an update coming any day now even though it's been almost two years since the last one' vague bullshit that people have to kind of assume just don't bother, really
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Jul 8, 2019 01:46
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Until proven otherwise, I’m assuming that they aren’t planning on doing anything else for the game but are worried that actually admitting that would affect key sales.
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Jul 8, 2019 01:51
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I get drunk and uncrate. Don't deny you all do the same.
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Jul 8, 2019 01:59
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it would probably cause a shitstorm if they announced it but part of me would hope they would at least respect the playerbase enough to tell them literally anything instead of just flipping on holiday poo poo to drain more money out of people also a belated lmao at the Carpet Defender logging in earlier
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Jul 8, 2019 02:03
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Don't give up hope, they must be working on Teufort Battle Royale mode! Please Valve, VALIDATE MY HAT LUST.
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Jul 8, 2019 02:10
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no joke me and a friend played some koth last night and I got a loving christmas 2018 crate
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Jul 8, 2019 02:27
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