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chaosapiant posted:Fallout 4 actually has a lot of interiors that aren't separate cells. I think the issue is that the way this particular engine operates, it would take more resources and kill performance than any console can handle, and at the end of the day, these games need to run on console. But the interiors like old abandoned churches and such that are still in the "outside" cell look pretty cool! And off course there's manpower. Bethesda Studios's devteam is still ridiculously tiny for the sort of game they're making. Having the interiors be separate cells means they're much cheaper to produce as things like making sure the outside matches the inside, NPC pathing, lighting and various other things are less of a headache.
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Jun 11, 2019 15:45
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Sab669 posted:Yea I don't even get this argument about NPC scheduling. Stardew Valley has NPCs on a clock Ultima V, released in 1988, had NPC scheduling.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:26
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The jank rear end engine is good because it made modding so accessible and made these games some of the most modded games around, allowing the community to fix and make the game significantly better. That's going away, or at least going behind a paywall so what's the point now? No amount of cabbages in my house is going to be worth the community bug fix patches.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:10
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The next Bethesda game will be built on a new engine and won’t have any bugs
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Jun 11, 2019 19:14
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Sab669 posted:Ah yes, the famously resource starved Bethesda who has been milking a single game for 8+ years with re-release after re-release after re-release 🙄 Where did this even start? Internet keeps acting like Skyrim became Call of Duty, but it has only gotten two rereleases, not counting the videogame-standard "All the DLC" bundle: porting it to PS4/Xbone and the giant change from 32-bit to 64-bit on PC (which was given away for free to everyone who had bought all of the original release's DLC), and then to the Switch.
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Jun 11, 2019 20:45
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That's way more than pretty much any other game gets, especially when they haven't put out a new game between them.
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Jun 11, 2019 21:07
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counterfeitsaint posted:The jank rear end engine is good because it made modding so accessible and made these games some of the most modded games around, allowing the community to fix and make the game significantly better. That's going away, or at least going behind a paywall so what's the point now? No amount of cabbages in my house is going to be worth the community bug fix patches. How is modding going away? Have they said they’re only doing the Creation Club going forwards?
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Jun 11, 2019 21:18
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ItBreathes posted:That's way more than pretty much any other game gets, especially when they haven't put out a new game between them. The Skyrim Special Edition came out the year after Fallout 4 did.
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Jun 11, 2019 21:19
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While I agree that the "Skyrim has constant re-releases" thing is beaten into the ground and not that bad, don't forget about Skyrim VR. Still, I hardly think they "milked" it because most of the releases were for consoles that didn't already have the game, SE was free for previous owners, and VR was a complete rework of a lot of the game systems.
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Jun 11, 2019 21:24
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Schubalts posted:Where did this even start? Internet keeps acting like Skyrim became Call of Duty, but it has only gotten two rereleases, not counting the videogame-standard "All the DLC" bundle: porting it to PS4/Xbone and the giant change from 32-bit to 64-bit on PC (which was given away for free to everyone who had bought all of the original release's DLC), and then to the Switch. quote:During the first day of release, Steam showed over 230,000 people playing Skyrim concurrently.[124] Within two days of the game's launch, 3.4 million physical copies were sold. Of those sales, 59% were for the Xbox 360, 27% for the PS3, and 14% for the PC.[125] In the first week of release, Bethesda stated that 7 million copies of the game had been shipped to retailers worldwide, and that total sales through the following Wednesday were expected to generate an estimated US$450 million.[126][127] By December 16, 2011, this had risen to 10 million copies shipped to retail and around US$620 million.[128] Additionally, Valve stated that it was the fastest selling game to date on their Steam platform.[128] Steam's statistics page showed the client breaking a five million user record by having 5,012,468 users logged in on January 2, 2012. The total number of sold copies on the PC platform is difficult to confirm because Valve does not publicly publish digital sales.[129] Shortly after its release, Skyrim was the most-played game on Steam by a huge margin, with double the number of players as Team Fortress 2, the second-placed game.[130] In the United Kingdom, Skyrim was the 9th best selling title of 2012.[131] In June 2013, Bethesda announced that over 20 million copies of the game had been sold.[132] Regarding sales on the PC, Todd Howard stated in an interview with Rock, Paper, Shotgun that, "Skyrim did better than we've ever done on PC by a large, large number. And that's where the mods are. That feeds the game for a long time."[133] Electronic Entertainment Design and Research, a market research firm, estimates that the game has sold 22.7 million copies worldwide.[134] In November 2016, Howard confirmed that Skyrim had sold 30 million copies since its release in 2011.[135] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_V:_Skyrim#Sales I'm not saying they haven't spent some number of resources developing those re-releases. But the amount of resources to port a game to a new platform versus developing a whole new game certainly can't be more costly. Now, obviously that's 30M copies over the span of 5 years (plus everything that's sold since 11/2016) - they didn't have these resources prior to Skyrim / shortly after its launch. But let's not pretend they're some starving indie studio barely scraping bye. So, yea, they're not putting out annual map packs with a slapdash campaign and calling it a new game like COD - but they've certainly got enough financial resources to hire more employees, and produce more better (read: technically well implemented) content. e; oh and as far as actual releases: - Launch '11 - Legendary Edition in '13 - Special Edition '16 - Nintendo Switch '17 - Skyrim VR '17 So they've put out 5 different versions of 1 game over 6 years. Sab669 fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 21:27
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I never understood the big deal about ports. Like I guess I can see the cash grab aspect but like it's cool to me that Darkest Dungeon started as a little PC game and was eventually ported over to PS4, the Bone and then the Switch because more people can play it? It's like the gamer equivalent of hipsters being annoyed that people would rather listen to mp3s instead of the original vinyl.
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Jun 11, 2019 21:38
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Wolfsheim posted:I never understood the big deal about ports. Like I guess I can see the cash grab aspect but like it's cool to me that Darkest Dungeon started as a little PC game and was eventually ported over to PS4, the Bone and then the Switch because more people can play it? It's like the gamer equivalent of hipsters being annoyed that people would rather listen to mp3s instead of the original vinyl. It has nothing to do with playing the game on the system it was released for, people are upset because this is the longest gap between Elder Scrolls games ever, and they see ports as cash grabs that end up delaying the development of the next TES game. I'm not saying it's perfectly logical, but on one hand I get it. Historically we've waited on average about 5 years between major releases, at this rate it will be maybe 10 years between major releases.
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Jun 11, 2019 21:45
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PinheadSlim posted:It has nothing to do with playing the game on the system it was released for, people are upset because this is the longest gap between Elder Scrolls games ever, and they see ports as cash grabs that end up delaying the development of the next TES game. Yeah but that's because they have two more IPs that are getting big games, not because of ports. The rate they put out new stuff has stayed about the same. 7c Nickel fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 21:52
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No it's not, it's because of bullshit microtransaction
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Jun 11, 2019 23:27
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counterfeitsaint posted:No it's not, it's because of bullshit microtransaction Daggerfall - 1996 6 years Morrowind - 2002 4 years Oblivion - 2006 2 years Fallout 3 - 2008 3 years Skyrim - 2011 4 years Fallout 4 - 2015 5 years ? Starfield - 2020? This isn't out of line with the past. It's just the first time they've had two non ES games in a row.
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Jun 12, 2019 00:01
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counterfeitsaint posted:No it's not, it's because of bullshit microtransaction Blades is developed by BGS Montreal, and the card game was developed by Dire Wolf and currently by Sparkypants. Fallout 76 was developed BGS Austin, which was Battlecry Studios. None of that is the same studio that made Skyrim or Fallout 4.
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Jun 12, 2019 00:06
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I think Bethesda outright said that most of the reason Skyrim SE exists is that mostly it was done as a test and experiment while upgrading the engine for FO4, then when they looked at it they realized it wasn't that much more work to actually make it fully functional. The frustration around them porting Skyrim to the current gen is pretty much because people really just want TES VI.
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Jun 12, 2019 12:25
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A 13 year gap between game series is insane. Like a large portion of your built in fanbase has grown out of it already lol.
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Jun 12, 2019 17:44
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Average Bear posted:A 13 year gap between game series is insane. Like a large portion of your built in fanbase has grown out of it already lol. True, this is why Star Wars stopped being profitable, they just waited too long between movies
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Jun 12, 2019 18:27
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Average Bear posted:A 13 year gap between game series is insane. Like a large portion of your built in fanbase has grown out of it already lol. It worked out great for Duke Nukem Forever! But for real it doesn't matter what they're making between TES games, it doesn't make the gap between TES games smaller. Lol @ 7c Nickel for bringing up Fallout and Starfield, as if I didn't specifically say "gap between Elder Scrolls games"
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Jun 12, 2019 18:42
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PinheadSlim posted:It worked out great for Duke Nukem Forever! Sure, but all I was saying is that ports and rereleases and spinoffs are not the reason for the gap.
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Jun 12, 2019 18:52
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Wolfsheim posted:True, this is why Star Wars stopped being profitable, they just waited too long between movies Manchildren are outliers.
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Jun 12, 2019 19:07
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Who do you think plays these games
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Jun 12, 2019 19:27
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Well I was like 10 when I discovered morrowind.
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Jun 12, 2019 19:35
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Thirteen years between games in a series is not just ridiculous, it’s bad business. Any real company would have put the hundreds of millions of dollars that Skyrim generated into making Skyrim 2, including hiring new talent, licensing the latest hot software, and going into overdrive on expansion of one of the highest valued IPs in a billion dollar industry. Instead, they made FO 76 lol
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Jun 12, 2019 20:12
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Bad business would've been rushing a sequel instead of maximizing Skyrim profits by releasing a bunch of remasters and ports on every possible system and tacking on paid mods to boot, to say nothing of siphoning money out of people with an MMO and two freemium mobile games in the meantime. I wouldn't say any of this is good for consumers but it's probably extremely good for their bottom line. I'm genuinely surprised they haven't released a remaster of F3/NV yet, it seems like easy money. Fallout 76 was an absolute tire fire of a business decision and probably their biggest financial misstep in history though, that is true.
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Jun 12, 2019 20:32
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Wolfsheim posted:I'm genuinely surprised they haven't released a remaster of F3/NV yet, it seems like easy money. The business side of Bethesda/Zenimax has always been pretty scummy and wants to get things done with the minimal amount of investment. See them doing little to no QA, or them loving over the devstudios working under their publishing branch by refusing to pay them (I'm not even talking about OEI and the metacritic score, they did shittier stuff by refusing milestones with studios like Arkane, Human Head and Splash Damage).
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Jun 12, 2019 20:58
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poisonpill posted:Thirteen years between games in a series is not just ridiculous, it’s bad business. Any real company would have put the hundreds of millions of dollars that Skyrim generated into making Skyrim 2, including hiring new talent, licensing the latest hot software, and going into overdrive on expansion of one of the highest valued IPs in a billion dollar industry. Instead, they made FO 76 lol Sounds almost like how we got Dragon Age 2 less than two years after Dragon Age: Origins.
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Jun 12, 2019 21:01
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It's just funny because they don't want to be known as the "Elder Scrolls/Fallout" guys as if being in control of the two biggest RPG IPs isn't a massive blessing. I get that the devs don't want to do the same thing over and over again, but I think they're forgetting the only reason anyone cares about them at all is TES/FO. And it's not like they can't temporarily hand off the IP if they get burnt out on it, just look at New Vegas. TES is their only original property that anyone cares about, it's their flagship. It's weird to ignore your flagship product for so long. Edit : A somewhat interesting comparison to be made is with Kingdom Hearts. 14 years between major releases and people were still excited and ate it up, from what I've heard. Although they've constantly been releasing handheld games that follow the main plot, so that probably helped a ton. Punkinhead fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 21:07
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Let obsidian do a TES spinoff game like fallout Bethesda.
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Jun 12, 2019 21:10
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PinheadSlim posted:It's just funny because they don't want to be known as the "Elder Scrolls/Fallout" guys as if being in control of the two biggest RPG IPs isn't a massive blessing. I get that the devs don't want to do the same thing over and over again, but I think they're forgetting the only reason anyone cares about them at all is TES/FO. And it's not like they can't temporarily hand off the IP if they get burnt out on it, just look at New Vegas. Is it really ignoring it if they put out a bunch of ES-branded stuff in the meantime? I don't care about ESO but it is a continuous thing that's constantly adding content and reminding you that the brand exists. Basically just a more savvy version of stuff like Redguard and Battlespire or those awful-looking Nokia phone games that they use to put out back in the day.
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Jun 12, 2019 21:29
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Average Bear posted:Let obsidian do a TES spinoff game like fallout Bethesda. Let Obsidian worry about Outer Worlds, for now. I swear, if I can make my character into a dark elf and re-create the events of c0da, I will never care about another Elder Scrolls game again.
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Jun 12, 2019 21:30
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Wolfsheim posted:Is it really ignoring it if they put out a bunch of ES-branded stuff in the meantime? I don't care about ESO but it is a continuous thing that's constantly adding content and reminding you that the brand exists. Basically just a more savvy version of stuff like Redguard and Battlespire or those awful-looking Nokia phone games that they use to put out back in the day. You're right, they're not ignoring TES as an IP but they are ignoring it as a concurrent game series the same way Kingdom Hearts has, which is why I made the comparison. It's not that the IP is ignored, but the most important aspect of that IP is being ignored, main TES releases. You're probably right that ESO is keeping a lot of people interested just like the handheld KH releases did for that series. Punkinhead fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 21:37
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Memes are what's keeping TES alive tbh
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Jun 12, 2019 21:45
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something something halflife 3
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Jun 12, 2019 21:56
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People would lose their poo poo if the lost Half Life 3 came out today and it turned out valve had been secretly working on it all along People use Duke Nukem as an example but it was absolute garbage which was probably a bigger factor
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Jun 12, 2019 22:11
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There's also the fact that Skyrim would still be in the top 20 most played games on Steam if it wasn't split across Oldrim and SE. Is there any real urgency for the IP if the game is still sustaining that kind of play at this point?
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Jun 12, 2019 22:17
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7c Nickel posted:There's also the fact that Skyrim would still be in the top 20 most played games on Steam if it wasn't split across Oldrim and SE. Is there any real urgency for the IP if the game is still sustaining that kind of play at this point? That would still make it less played than games like Ark and Garrys Mod. They're each only sustaining as much play as Unturned or DayZ, each. Is that really that great for TES?
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Jun 12, 2019 22:24
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Flinger posted:Memes are what's keeping TES alive tbh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qIGctGFoyU 
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Jun 12, 2019 22:25
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7c Nickel posted:There's also the fact that Skyrim would still be in the top 20 most played games on Steam if it wasn't split across Oldrim and SE. Is there any real urgency for the IP if the game is still sustaining that kind of play at this point? Todd Howard's talked a couple times about how some Bethsoft board members are actually upset people are still playing the old games instead of being converted into paying customers for new games, so there's at least some internal pressure.
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Jun 12, 2019 22:28
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