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Sinten posted:He accuses me of being a bad employee that wants to "cut and run" despite the fact that I have been working diligently and have already done a lot of the transfer work and documentation that needed to be done. I'm not sure I'd be able to keep myself from saying "That's fine but I don't respect your opinion enough to take that seriously."
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Jun 11, 2019 14:38
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Che Delilas posted:I'm assuming you're in the 'States. Unless a lawyer has told you that it's legal, I wouldn't record anything secretly. The legality varies from state to state. You're already on your way out the door, the power your boss has over you is basically nonexistent, whatever worst-case scenarios are in your head all but impossible, and as others have said, you don't have to put up with any bullshit. I am also not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but I think in all states it is permissible to record the meeting if you're clear going in that you want to record the meeting and the guy has the chance to decline the meeting because it is being recorded. It's also very clearly a signal that you don't trust the manager, which is unlikely to improve their mood any, but what do you care about that? Another option would be to ask to have an HR rep present. HR is not always the most useful tool, as their priority is protecting the company...but as long as there's not some kind of favoritism going on, there's pretty good odds that HR won't play favorites in this situation.
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Jun 11, 2019 15:53
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He can always move to immediately fire you for whatever reason. The fact he hasn’t already makes me wonder what leverage you may have on your side. Impetuous asshat he may be, but completely insane he does not appear to be. I mean, look at our current POTUS...
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Jun 11, 2019 16:15
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necrobobsledder posted:He can always move to immediately fire you for whatever reason. The fact he hasn’t already makes me wonder what leverage you may have on your side. Impetuous asshat he may be, but completely insane he does not appear to be. I mean, look at our current POTUS... Leverage at least is knowledge not yet transferred.
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Jun 11, 2019 16:32
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Trip report: I had my annual performance review with Director Of Unpleasant Task present and it was fine. He was silent the whole time. Then, at the end, I was offered "the largest raise allocation" available to my boss. I told him it wasn't high enough and explained my salary research. He admitted the company is clueless on US salaries and said he'd talk to HR about it. Many thanks to whoever in here recommended How To Make $100 A Minute by Jack Chapman. It's a really corny book, but it taught me exactly what I needed to know to navigate the salary review.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:13
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rt4 posted:Trip report: I had my annual performance review with Director Of Unpleasant Task present and it was fine. He was silent the whole time. Then, at the end, I was offered "the largest raise allocation" available to my boss. I told him it wasn't high enough and explained my salary research. He admitted the company is clueless on US salaries and said he'd talk to HR about it. That's great, congratulations. Hope you're able to hold their feet to the fire and your boss doesn't just keep "waiting to hear back from HR". Fake edit: Remote work update: owns bones
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Jun 11, 2019 17:16
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Sinten posted:Continuing my quitting story: For perspective, when I told my last boss that I was quitting, he asked me "how long I still have you". I told him the standard two weeks and he was floored. My old boss was so used to people rage-quitting and giving notice measured in hours. I worked my regular time those two weeks documenting and packing up everything I could. There's no reason to be manipulated like this. Unless you have contractual obligations, don't kill yourself over a lovely boss you won't be working for soon anyway.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:20
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Careful Drums posted:For perspective, when I told my last boss that I was quitting, he asked me "how long I still have you". I told him the standard two weeks and he was floored. My old boss was so used to people rage-quitting and giving notice measured in hours.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:04
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necrobobsledder posted:He can always move to immediately fire you for whatever reason. The fact he hasn’t already makes me wonder what leverage you may have on your side. Impetuous asshat he may be, but completely insane he does not appear to be. I mean, look at our current POTUS... No business should let a manager fire someone who has put their notice in. It not only kills team morale but opens up the business to lawsuits for absolutely no reason.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:26
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On the opposite end I had my manager beg me for two months when I gave notice. Because I really enjoyed working for that person in particular and the company in general and wanted to make sure I would be welcome back, I agreed. Objectively speaking that was far above and beyond what I needed to do to leave on good terms, but I don't regret it. On the plus side, I can go back anytime and it's nice to have options.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:42
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Meanwhile, the standard contractual notice in my country is 3 months. 
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Jun 11, 2019 20:05
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Xarn posted:Meanwhile, the standard contractual notice in my country is 3 months. The trade off being, I assume, that your employer can’t just let you go for any/no reason at any time?
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Jun 11, 2019 23:00
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asur posted:No business should let a manager fire someone who has put their notice in. It not only kills team morale but opens up the business to lawsuits for absolutely no reason. User posted:On the opposite end I had my manager beg me for two months when I gave notice. Because I really enjoyed working for that person in particular and the company in general and wanted to make sure I would be welcome back, I agreed. Objectively speaking that was far above and beyond what I needed to do to leave on good terms, but I don't regret it. On the plus side, I can go back anytime and it's nice to have options.
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Jun 11, 2019 23:25
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My boss shared that I was leaving during the team meeting today. A lot of the team members were sad and visibly upset. I also shared with them all of the steps that I have already taken since submitting my resignation, including the gobs of documentation as well as spending a lot of time paired off with the person who is going to take over many of my duties. It's abundantly clear that I've taken care of my responsibilities and have set the team up for success. My boss avoided me for the rest of the day and didn't say a word to me 1x1. I'm also prepared to quit on the spot now if he attempts to browbeat me or twist my words, so I'm pretty much in the clear with all of this. I'm working from home tomorrow, so we'll see if he throws another temper tantrum. If he does, I'm not getting into any lengthy arguments, I'm cutting him off and telling him I'm done and will come in to drop my stuff off shortly. Thanks for the advice everyone.
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Jun 12, 2019 02:20
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Guinness posted:The trade off being, I assume, that your employer can’t just let you go for any/no reason at any time? Ofc. I live in socialist hellhole with actual labour protection.
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Jun 12, 2019 07:08
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Sinten posted:My boss avoided me for the rest of the day and didn't say a word to me 1x1. I'm also prepared to quit on the spot now if he attempts to browbeat me or twist my words, so I'm pretty much in the clear with all of this. I'm working from home tomorrow, so we'll see if he throws another temper tantrum. If he does, I'm not getting into any lengthy arguments, I'm cutting him off and telling him I'm done and will come in to drop my stuff off shortly. Thanks for the advice everyone. When I quit my last job, with the sociopath boss, he didn't talk to me for my whole notice period. It was glorious.
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Jun 12, 2019 07:59
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Guinness posted:The trade off being, I assume, that your employer can’t just let you go for any/no reason at any time? Having now gotten a taste of both worlds, I can't easily explain the psychological effect that socialist-hellhole labor laws have. I mean, it's not JUST 'can't let you go'. It's also "without good reason". You basically have to be nearly criminally negligent or abominally lazy to get fired, once you've got a 'permanent' position. Compared to literally having been fired with zero notice for no reason before, the idea that at the bare minimum there'd end up being 3+ months of 'ok we need you to improve' as a warning, combined with a chance to improve, combined with the employer needing to document how my performance is not comparable to my colleagues, and even at the end of all that, still having a 3-month notice period during which I'm being paid-in-full. It's glorious madness, and having a 3-month notice period if I want to leave is a small, small price to pay. It sounds like a long time in American terms, but realistically every employer also tends to understand that it's going to take a few months after an interview to actually have you start.
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Jun 12, 2019 08:30
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Sinten posted:My boss avoided me for the rest of the day and didn't say a word to me 1x1. I'm also prepared to quit on the spot now if he attempts to browbeat me or twist my words, so I'm pretty much in the clear with all of this. I'm working from home tomorrow, so we'll see if he throws another temper tantrum. If he does, I'm not getting into any lengthy arguments, I'm cutting him off and telling him I'm done and will come in to drop my stuff off shortly. Thanks for the advice everyone. This is unbelievable. Did he literally just sit across from you in a conference room and didn't say anything? Was he pointedly turning his body away from you as if he couldn't see you? Did you say anything to him? I must know more about this!
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Jun 12, 2019 17:14
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Hughlander posted:This is unbelievable. Did he literally just sit across from you in a conference room and didn't say anything? Was he pointedly turning his body away from you as if he couldn't see you? Did you say anything to him? I must know more about this! I didn't mean to imply that we had a 1x1 in which we had an uncomfortable stare down. We had a broader team meeting, and afterward he cancelled a meeting he and I had 1x1 and he went out of his way to avoid walking past my desk or me for the rest of the day.
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Jun 12, 2019 17:18
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Sinten posted:I didn't mean to imply that we had a 1x1 in which we had an uncomfortable stare down. We had a broader team meeting, and afterward he cancelled a meeting he and I had 1x1 and he went out of his way to avoid walking past my desk or me for the rest of the day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpMNwFSLJxg (are we allowed to youtube quote replies here?)
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Jun 12, 2019 22:24
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Accepted an offer  . 55% raise, health insurance premium is fully covered by the company, and paid for MetroCard. Asked my employer to match the raise, they declined, so gonna go get loving paid.Even if it's the devil I don't know, I had three other interviews lined up next week with good, solid places, offering similar salaries, with barely any searching, so if it sucks I'll just throw out my resume again and get a new job 
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Jun 13, 2019 03:57
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Accepted an offer goongrats
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Jun 13, 2019 07:14
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Asked my employer to match the raise, they declined, so gonna go get loving paid. Don't ever accept a counter-offer. It's a surefire recipe for pain and misery. When you give notice, it should be "hi, it's been fun, but I'm out."
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Jun 13, 2019 10:07
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:
The market for devs is pretty hot now huh
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Jun 13, 2019 11:41
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Accepted an offer Hey congratulations! I just accepted an offer for what amounts to about +40%, and even if I had been willing to entertain a counter offer (I wasn't) my current place wouldn't have been willing to go that high. They did imply during the conversation that they would have made a smaller one, which if they had just given me three months ago I wouldn't have bothered to look for new work. Same boat, it's a risk and if it doesn't work out, I still come away with a better idea of the value some people place on my work and can look again with a more accurate perspective. 
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Jun 13, 2019 13:22
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I doubt I'll ever get a bump that big in one move  Doghouse posted:The market for devs is pretty hot now huh "now"
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Jun 13, 2019 14:28
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If you start at $12/hour you can double your salary in one hop! (Not recommended.)
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Jun 13, 2019 14:33
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lifg posted:If you start at $12/hour you can double your salary in one hop! Lemme tell you, the move from academia to industry was pretty drastic. My own update: I would never have predicted this, but I'm getting paid to job hunt. I had a meeting a bit ago where they basically told me "we know you're not happy, you know you're not happy, but nothing seems to be moving, so here's how it's going to be: you wrap things up at your current team, then you have two months to find a new job, with full pay and benefits and no other job responsibilities. If at the end of that you haven't found anything, or it's not at Alphabet, you turn in your badge and laptop." 
TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 15:28
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runupon cracker posted:Don't ever accept a counter-offer. It's a surefire recipe for pain and misery. When you give notice, it should be "hi, it's been fun, but I'm out." Why?
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Jun 13, 2019 17:23
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Slimy Hog posted:Why? Barring rare exceptions, the counter-offer is always in bad faith and the company will be looking to replace you as soon as possible. They only made the counter-offer in order to have time to find a replacement. If they though you were worth the extra money, they'd pay you without being threatened.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:29
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I recall there was some statistic that 80% of people who accept a counter-offer end up leaving within a year anyway. Just guessing the reasons why: - the reason for wanting to leave is rarely only money. If it's a systemic issue then more money is a temporary salve and once the feeling of that salary bump wears off, the person will be just as dissatisfied with their job and start looking around again. - the company now knows you want to leave and that the only thing keeping you there is money, so they'll start preparing to replace you with someone cheaper.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:30
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Because if you're leaving for money, you've just learned that the best way to get a raise is by job hunting. If you're leaving for culture, that hasn't changed with a counter offer.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:31
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I think the whole idea of retaliation from your employer after a counter-offer is overblown, especially in high skilled professions. But if you’re already one foot out the door, don’t stick around because they finally have you that raise. The job market is too good to settle like that. You’ll probably still want to leave sooner rather than later.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:43
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I had a counter-offer from my last company and stayed with them for another three years, after which time I told them that I was leaving again, they gave me another counter-offer, and I stayed with them another two years. It's good to be aware of the statistics when you're creating a risk profile, but people aren't statistics, and it's usually best to just be frank with people, speak through your concerns, and figure out together what the situation means for everybody involved.
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Jun 13, 2019 19:11
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minato posted:I recall there was some statistic that 80% of people who accept a counter-offer end up leaving within a year anyway. What percent of employees generally leave per year anyway? I mean BLS has the median tenure at 2.8 years for 25-34 year olds currently. Anecdote is not data time, the only person I know who ever accepted a counter-offer did so in 2005 and is still there 14 years later.
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Jun 13, 2019 19:39
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Hughlander posted:What percent of employees generally leave per year anyway? I mean BLS has the median tenure at 2.8 years for 25-34 year olds currently. The last place I asked that question before I started working there said most of the team had been there at least 5 years up to like 15. Then within the year I was there they all left but 1 guy. Gildiss fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Jun 14, 2019 |
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Jun 14, 2019 03:02
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Gildiss posted:Then within the year I was there they all left but 1 guy. Was it coincidence or did something change, like new management?
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Jun 14, 2019 20:17
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The Fool posted:If they though you were worth the extra money, they'd pay you without being threatened. Nah they'll just pay you as little as they think they can get away with. No reason for them to volunteer to pay >X for something when X apparently will do. There's nothing hostile about that. Negotiations aren't threats.
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Jun 14, 2019 23:15
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Starting a new position on Monday. It’s my second real software job. Advice for the first few weeks?
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Jun 14, 2019 23:28
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dantheman650 posted:Starting a new position on Monday. It’s my second real software job. Advice for the first few weeks? Find the biggest guy you can and....
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Jun 14, 2019 23:37
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