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ArmyOfMidgets posted:I'm a bit conflicted on the heals in gyms. It's probably just for the E3 Demo, but assuming it's not.... Gotta agree. A Gym is supposed to be a challenge for the trainer. Patching them up after every fight makes it all too easy.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:42
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Bleck posted:Why not just heal the party after every fight? Honestly, what does it matter? I guess it's a pretty similar argument to regenerating health in shooters/action games.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:46
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As for auto-healing after every battle, I would loving love that! That changes the entire game when every fight is supposed to be able to knock down most of your party, that you're supposed to go into things with all your moves at max. Status stuff would be far more interesting since it'll get undone after the battle, therefore it'll be way more common as a weapon against you. That kind of rebalance would be extremely exciting for Pokemon.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:51
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A fair few gyms don't even reset when you leave and come back and later on you should have a bunch of healing items anyway. It actually makes no difference for the tougher gyms, since usually the Gym offers a one-way system back to the start and having to do the puzzle again even if you never left, so you'd heal up just before the final fight anyway. Since we've only seen the one puzzle that at least loops back on itself a couple times, we don't know how useful this will actually be. Or even if it was just for the demo, or will only apply to earlier Gyms.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:57
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making it easier is pretty dumb, but it's for kids so i get it
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Jun 13, 2019 15:59
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Johnny Joestar posted:literally all it does is just eliminate tediousness, jesus. how is this even remotely controversial. just don't touch the thing if you don't want to. i don't get this mindset that apparently people need to get hit with a newspaper for daring to not want to ironman through every fight with no healing. I agree. It's incredibly dumb to consider tediousness as difficulty. The only change here is that you walk two steps instead of twenty, saving you time for the same result. Under no circumstances is tediousness an acceptable form of difficulty. That's fangame-tier poo poo. This is a good change that actually doesn't affect this game's difficulty (or lack of it) at all while improving user experience and reducing dead times. If you wouldn't heal either way, it makes no difference to you. If you wouldn't because it's tedious, then the issue lies in bad game design.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:01
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I'm not entirely too banged up about "not every creature will be in this" because we're approaching like 1k pokemon and let's be honest, a fair lot of them are pure trash that nobody wants, though I'm sure a few faves will be on the chopping block too. My real concern is "will this have as good a postgame as Black/White2" because I loved the PWT and none of the games have had anything as good as that since.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:04
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Chill Penguin posted:Wow what a challenge. Why not just heal the party after every fight? Yeah do that. Rebalance the entire game under the assumption that you start at full every fight(trainer only?). Reduce PP limits since they'll only apply for one fight, make trainer battles more difficult and engaging with larger teams. It'd make the game way more fun. You already have infinite healing/status/pp items easily in Sun/Moon with Pelago, so cut out the middle man and make the game better balanced by always being able to assume the player is at max to start.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:05
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All pokemon are cool and good and if you dont think so nothing in this thread is for you I'm sorry.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:05
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Blaze Dragon posted:I agree. It's incredibly dumb to consider tediousness as difficulty. The only change here is that you walk two steps instead of twenty, saving you time for the same result. Having to reload a save when you die Starting the mario level over when you fall down a hole Losing gold /items/experience/souls when you die All tediousness as difficulty, and bad
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Jun 13, 2019 16:06
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:All pokemon are cool and good and if you dont think so nothing in this thread is for you I'm sorry. The Simi- lines are trash tier and despite it's cute appearance, Luvdisc is also just a waste (it should've evolved into Alomomola). Quilfish is also in that boat of chaff
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Jun 13, 2019 16:14
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Live Free posted:Having to reload a save when you die The things you're comparing to are equivalent of a party wipe, not having damaged or some fainted pokemon.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:16
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all the pans- are good and simisage whips
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Jun 13, 2019 16:17
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Live Free posted:Having to reload a save when you die can you really not see the difference between the example you quoted and all your game over scenarios? I’ll give you a hint: it’s game over, man
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Jun 13, 2019 16:17
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Xelkelvos posted:The things you're comparing to are equivalent of a party wipe, not having damaged or some fainted pokemon. It's still tediousness as difficulty though
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Jun 13, 2019 16:18
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Live Free posted:It's still tediousness as difficulty though losing is fundamentally different than not-losing
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Jun 13, 2019 16:19
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And honestly the only difference would be maybe in the first gym, by the time you get to the second or third you have enough items to be a MPSH unit anyway
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Jun 13, 2019 16:21
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ironman endurance running through victory road or a forest or something is appealing but i don’t see why the end of route x has to be harder than the beginning just because your pokémon are tired. if anything the current system discourages exploration and battles which is a negative in a pokémon game, to me
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Jun 13, 2019 16:21
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oddium posted:ironman endurance running through victory road or a forest or something is appealing but i don’t see why the end of route x has to be harder than the beginning just because your pokémon are tired. if anything the current system discourages exploration and battles which is a negative in a pokémon game, to me this is why I love the trend in more recent gens to have escort quests where your companion heals you after every battle. I use those opportunities to look at every fuckin thing
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Jun 13, 2019 16:23
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Live Free posted:Having to reload a save when you die It greatly depends on the experience the developers want to give. With a Dark Souls game, the whole atmosphere is one of having to struggle in a dying world full of despair. Punishing the player by striping them of their stuff works within that context. The experience that official Pokémon games provide is one of a power fantasy, where you're just a kid but at the same time, have control over creatures with awe-inspiring abilities. Not to mention that gyms were never intended to be the main antagonistic force of the series. They're generally there to test trainers and they want them to succeed rather then fail. It's also telling that even the latest Mario game changed the lives system where when Mario dies, he just loses ten coins (which are very easily gained back anyway). So the player can make as many attempts as they want.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:24
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oddium posted:ironman endurance running through victory road or a forest or something is appealing but i don’t see why the end of route x has to be harder than the beginning just because your pokémon are tired. if anything the current system discourages exploration and battles which is a negative in a pokémon game, to me Honestly, I've never really found that to be the case. With a rotating team of like 5-6 mons with alright moves and some stocked up healing items, you can go pretty drat far in a single venture. And usually the game accommodates you by having various healing places at midway points or whatnot. You'd be surprised by how far you can push your team, I can't really think of a time I had to retreat and heal up.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:25
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Is..is this thread always like this right before a new game comes out? Did people complain about no HMs in SM? That's actually a legit question, BTW. It's just a QoL change.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:26
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Zuzie posted:It greatly depends on the experience the developers want to give. Blaze Dragon posted:Under no circumstances is tediousness an acceptable form of difficulty. I was replying to this
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Jun 13, 2019 16:27
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Dias posted:Is..is this thread always like this right before a new game comes out? Did people complain about no HMs in SM? That's actually a legit question, BTW. they soured a lot of fans with the Home announcement so now I think people are just looking for reasons to be pissed
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Jun 13, 2019 16:27
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Dias posted:Is..is this thread always like this right before a new game comes out? Did people complain about no HMs in SM? That's actually a legit question, BTW. I feel like a couple wierdos did complain about the HM thing. I was over the moon for that. Maybe I am the wierdo here this time, but I don't like the idea... but I also don't think it ruins the challenge or anything. It makes the dungeons of the game a bit less punishing, and frankly the idea of punishment with difficulty has been a huge argument lately due to Souls so I don't feel prepared to argue for it. It might be overall for the better, but it doesn't seem good to me.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:30
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ArmyOfMidgets posted:I feel like a couple wierdos did complain about the HM thing. I was over the moon for that. Maybe I am the wierdo here this time, but I don't like the idea... but I also don't think it ruins the challenge or anything. It makes the dungeons of the game a bit less punishing, and frankly the idea of punishment with difficulty has been a huge argument lately due to Souls so I don't feel prepared to argue for it. it’s still optional though. the HM change was different because they completely took that aspect of the game away. this is just “if you’re running back to the poke center anyway, how about you don’t have to run as far”
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Jun 13, 2019 16:32
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anyone who complained about the HM change has brainworms
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Jun 13, 2019 16:37
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With Matsuda saying Pokémon Home will have gameplay elements, I’m reasonably hopeful there’s gonna be a battle component to make up for the Pokémon/features missing from SwSh. If that’s the case I’ll be okay with the base games themselves not having those.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:16
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I played a couple romhacks that handled gyms/healing balance somewhat interestingly. Pokemon Pyrite is a Crystal hack that locks you in gyms until you either beat the leader or you wipe. I guess it forces you to have your party ready and to have adequate healing, but it was kinda annoying. Nova Sun/Umbra Moon's battles were generally difficult and were balanced such that at least one of your Pokemon would probably faint. You could buy sacred ash for real cheap from the beginning of the game, which was neat. Revives were also there, but they cost 20000 instead of 1500. So healing in battle was expensive, but healing outside battle was quite cheap. Supernova Sun/Penumbra Moon also added an inexpensive item that acts as a full restore that can only be used outside of battle. Both of these games had a pretty fun difficulty curve. So yeah, I really hope they use the convenient healing to make gym battles, at least later ones, more difficult and interesting.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:17
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DLC Inc posted:My real concern is "will this have as good a postgame as Black/White2" It will not and I'm sorry
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Jun 13, 2019 17:18
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Also Game Freak have been lazy fuckers since like Gen 6 and nothing different should be expected
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Jun 13, 2019 17:20
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Having just finished a B2 playthrough I think Ultra Moon had a better post/sidegame. the Battle Tree, Battle Spot, Battle Royale, and Ultra Wormhole shiny hunting still have me lod the game up just to play
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Jun 13, 2019 17:24
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New Famitsu is out, confirms that S&S won't have Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:35
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Nodosaur posted:With Matsuda saying Pokémon Home will have gameplay elements, I’m reasonably hopeful there’s gonna be a battle component to make up for the Pokémon/features missing from SwSh. If that’s the case I’ll be okay with the base games themselves not having those. As long as the system is secure and doesn't have the "if you don't pay we'll take your pokemon away" poo poo, I'm absolutely fine with this. Literally I just want a secure place to put my pokemon that's all. The specifying that Home might allow you to battle among other things make this a little better for me, and frankly he shouldn't of dropped this particular bomb until AFTER explaining how Home works.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:36
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oddium posted:they’re doing the reduction in monsters now so people get used to it in a still familiar environment, becuase gen 9 is a platinum character action game Geostomp posted:Gotta agree. A Gym is supposed to be a challenge for the trainer. Patching them up after every fight makes it all too easy. Dias posted:Is..is this thread always like this right before a new game comes out? Did people complain about no HMs in SM? That's actually a legit question, BTW.  "actually if you don't have HMs then people can just put OP moves on all their pokemon, there should be an opportunity cost to have rock smash equipped"
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Jun 13, 2019 17:41
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less laughter posted:New Famitsu is out, confirms that S&S won't have Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves. Actually Game Freak is good now
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Jun 13, 2019 17:46
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less laughter posted:New Famitsu is out, confirms that S&S won't have Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:48
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Zoran posted:Actually Game Freak is good now Yeah so good to turn most of the mons that got a Mega back into useless PU trash again
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Jun 13, 2019 17:49
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less laughter posted:Yeah so good to turn most of the mons that got a Mega back into useless PU trash again No, they’re getting memory holed instead, haven’t you been paying attention? Of course they could just make the good Megas that rescued terrible Pokémon into actual evolutions like they always should have been, but it’s Game Freak so that won’t happen.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:52
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less laughter posted:New Famitsu is out, confirms that S&S won't have Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves. This lends credence to the "maybe they wanna try and run a SwSh meta with its own gimmick" theory.
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Jun 13, 2019 17:57
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