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Groovelord Neato posted:how come no mmos after eq went with first person as the default view. It just doesn't work well for an MMO. The huge environments and only being able to see what is directly in front of you makes for a frustrating gameplay experience, and when you are fighting mobs they typically take up the whole screen because scaling of enemies is weird in MMOs.
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Jun 9, 2019 14:58
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i liked it in eq it was immersive.
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Jun 9, 2019 15:00
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Zaphod42 posted:Smedley isn't a game designer, he's like a producer right? He's probably working on AWS stuff now, which is a huge deal and makes Amazon like billions of dollars. Web Services is a separate department from Game Studios, far as I can tell AGS is a sort of engineering purgatory where teams drop off SWEs and interns they don't like Groovelord Neato posted:how come no mmos after eq went with first person as the default view. Most likely it's due to mechanics; MMOs tend to have a lot of entities in a single area, all around the same height, so in your most common case a 1st person camera introduces a bunch of problems 3rd person just doesn't have. The thing you're fighting is obscured by a dozen other players at minimum, you can't see to your sides or back so enemy AOEs either need longer tells or need their range restricted to reduce people getting hit by attacks they didn't see, and multiple targets are now much harder to coordinate a team against unless you have an Eve-style overview (e: or an Apex-style marker system, but was there anything before Apex that had that system?). You can resolve many of these problems by avoiding melee mechanics and making maps that use their vertical space (and you see exactly that in Planetside, for instance), but if the game isn't designed as a 1st-person shooting MMO from the start it's simpler to just make the camera 3rd person. Good Dumplings fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jun 9, 2019 |
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Jun 9, 2019 15:05
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I said come in! posted:I know a lot of people were hoping the game would be ported to PlayStation 3 and at one point I think that was even the plan. I don't know why it had to shut down, a lot of people actually still played it. I actually watched final moments videos of the game earlier today and there were hundreds of players on to say goodbye to the game. as someone with the magic uncle who worked at SOE i can say that once star wars petered out literally all of their other games combined never approached the consistent subscriber count of eq1. eq2 + matrix + vanguard + eqoa + those couple weird tv gameshow style games out of the LA satellite office + the trading card game company they bought + freerealms + clonewars. all less than eq1 active players at any given time of day. eqoa often had less than 100 concurrent players. it was a rounding error compared to eq1. dcuo honestly could have saved them but sony ate heavy losses in the stock market during the 2008 downturn and they slashed all but their movie making division (sony entertainment) and playstation online (SNEI). they even shuttered a big chunk of their electronics division. closed a plant in San Diego, walked away from laptops entirely and discontinued support for their Vaio line. shame really.
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Jun 9, 2019 15:12
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they're doing a post apocalyptic survival mmo that is basically set in the universe of 'Wild Wild West' its called last oasis eonwe fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 02:45
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eonwe posted:they're doing a post apocalyptic survival mmo that is basically set in the universe of 'Wild Wild West' Post-apocalyptic survival MMOs are reliably the jankiest poo poo that has ever existed, so I look forward to seeing Goon Abominations in this game
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Jun 11, 2019 15:44
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Even if the servers are always on fire, I'm a big fan of Conquerors Blade. If any goons are interested we have a burgeoning clan growing - though be warned that it's not solely goons. Mix of IRL friends and randos.
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Jun 11, 2019 16:14
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Some Ncsoft bigwig got some big monies to do a fantasy mmo aimed at the west blah blah and I have no enthusiasm at all. 
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Jun 12, 2019 13:52
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Groovelord Neato posted:how come no mmos after eq went with first person as the default view. As others have said, there are things like combat mechanics where it is very difficult to keep an eye on everything when you're in first person (ground AoE telegraphs, status of other party members, giant enemies, etc). Playing VR MMOs like Orbus really have trouble with this, for example. However, I wouldn't be surprised if another big push for third-person is the appeal of being able to look at and appreciate your character. I don't know if it was the original reason, but when you can actually see your character, a player might be more inclined to dress them up fancy-like, creating an impetus to keep searching for more loot, make alt characters for different styles or, in this modern age, buy cosmetics.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:00
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Gort posted:Post-apocalyptic survival MMOs are reliably the jankiest poo poo that has ever existed, so I look forward to seeing Goon Abominations in this game   EDIT: Do imgur links no longer load? Should be a Fallen Earth picture there. Ah well...
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Jun 13, 2019 22:22
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copy the image address, not the page url
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Jun 13, 2019 22:26
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FutureCop posted:As others have said, there are things like combat mechanics where it is very difficult to keep an eye on everything when you're in first person (ground AoE telegraphs, status of other party members, giant enemies, etc). Playing VR MMOs like Orbus really have trouble with this, for example. Yeah, I really enjoyed the first person perspective of EQ, but I was constantly trying to force 3rd person and walk into walls so that I could get the camera to look at my character from a good angle. After luclin you could use the /face to force the camera to look right at you. Doing things like that showed there was definitely a demand for admiring your own character's appearance, since gear IS everything in an MMO. An MMO could exist with a vastly different combat model, which then might feel fine in first-person. But you'd have to develop entirely different mechanics. Basically, it'd be Destiny. Destiny is first-person and comes pretty dang close to being an MMO, or it is one. It has raids with serious boss mechanics. There are still things like 'don't stand in the fire' but you don't have tanking or facing being as much a big deal as just landing your shots and possibly landing headshots on weak spots, things like that.
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Jun 13, 2019 22:32
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Dick Trauma posted:
Right click, view image, then copy THAT url 
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Jun 13, 2019 22:33
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Zaphod42 posted:Destiny is first-person and comes pretty dang close to being an MMO, or it is one. It has raids with serious boss mechanics. There are still things like 'don't stand in the fire' but you don't have tanking or facing being as much a big deal as just landing your shots and possibly landing headshots on weak spots, things like that. Yeah, this kind of thing has pretty much killed the non-Eve MMO. MMOs where you spend the vast majority of your time with five other people in a dungeon are pointless if you can get the same gameplay from a non-MMO like Destiny or Warframe. In order to be a successful MMO these days you either need inertia like World of Warcraft, or you need to actually leverage the "There are thousands of players on this server" stuff that only an MMO can do. Trying to charge a monthly fee for bad gameplay with content only a small number of players are involved in at any one time is a losing proposition. I wanna see a fantasy MMO with wars involving thousands of players and NPCs. If your MMO just does content for less than a hundred, it's not bringing anything to the table.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:03
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Gort posted:Yeah, this kind of thing has pretty much killed the non-Eve MMO. MMOs where you spend the vast majority of your time with five other people in a dungeon are pointless if you can get the same gameplay from a non-MMO like Destiny or Warframe. I would really argue Destiny and Warframe are MMOs though. They're maybe in a different subgenre, I could see that, but they're all part of the same whole of "games with lots of people with a central server, progression, and focus on multiplayer". Gort posted:I wanna see a fantasy MMO with wars involving thousands of players and NPCs. If your MMO just does content for less than a hundred, it's not bringing anything to the table. I don't wanna say you're wrong or anything and I'm sorry if this comes across that way, but I've come to feeling the exact opposite over time. The more you try to actually support that dream of having 200-1000 players in a zone, the more you have to make compromises. WoW zones are huge barren fields with the same enemy groups repeated 5+ times because they need to plan for what if 10 players all try to do the same quest at the same time, there need to be enough NPCs and spread out enough that you don't constantly kill-steal each other. You end up limiting your game design so much to try to just manage having that many physical bodies around, it makes it really really hard to create a powerful experience. On the other hand, I think destiny/division/warframe style games where you never really see more than 20+ people in one instance are basically the same experience. As long as that group of 20 people can constantly shuffle in and out so you're seeing one group of 20 and then another group of 20 and then another group of 20, as a human being that's almost indistinguishable from actually having 200 people around you. How much do you really need to see 200 people on screen? And by only having 20 people, the content can be much more tightly balanced and focused and stuff can just be more fun. That said, I do like the idea of games that really push things technically, like Planetside 2 having 1000s of players in the same war. But Planetside 2 is kinda a good example of what I'm saying, the gameplay is such a mindless slog because you're just one grunt in an army of literal thousands, so you basically can't be all that important by just laws of reality. You're each just 1/1000th of the army. Its fun for awhile but feels gimmicky. I'm not sure how you'd actually design like a proper braveheart style combat simulator where each person is a real person and you're all fighting together. You could build it, but would it be fun? I think it'd be really really hard to make consistently fun and not just a bunch of dying and running around. I'd love to see someone pull it off.
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Jun 13, 2019 23:37
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yeah, having 100 people on the field in eve is easy, because the field is 300km big and doesn't exist having 100 people on the field in a normal game is just asking for trouble, and considering how much trouble even eve is with 100, let alone 1000 players, lmao I'd be extremely for a good pve/pvp mix mmo, but in a fantasy world, going full eve and letting 5k people onto the field if they all decide to show up isn't gonna work.
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Jun 14, 2019 00:18
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What was the max players in that one zone of WoW before they made battlegrounds right after the pvp system was created? 100?
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Jun 14, 2019 04:12
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i understand the gameplay reasons but man nothing beat the immersion of first person eq.
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Jun 14, 2019 14:38
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I believe another reason for the popular move away from first person is that people want to see this custom character that they made and probably have dressed up. Even in the original EQ when your fanciest armour sets were the same plate mail textures tinted red and blue, people liked to show off, including to themselves. Now a days it’s a HUGE draw for a lot of MMO’s, and I think good character customization has become a fairly wide expectation. I get you on the immersion front. You’d need a different kind of game than how conventional MMO’s have developed, but I’m not 100% sure where you’d go for that.
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Jun 14, 2019 14:46
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Yeah FutureCop just made that same argument
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Jun 14, 2019 20:32
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah FutureCop just made that same argument And Future Cop: LAPD was third person!
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Jun 16, 2019 12:09
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is it cool that Pantheon has no minimap or nah? discuss
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Jun 20, 2019 03:31
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The Mantis posted:is it cool that Pantheon has no minimap or nah? Probably fine for the audience they are targeting, I don't know if Pantheon will be good (it probably won't ) or if its a game I would have any interest in playing but they do seem to be aware of the narrow niche they are trying to fill and targeting towards that audience. Also it seems it's the only relatively big name upcoming MMO that is mainly PVE focused which gives it a bit of an edge in a sea of (doomed to failure) pvp focused mmos.
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Jun 20, 2019 15:41
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There will never be an mmo as good as Asheron’s Call was.
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Jun 23, 2019 14:46
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SamEyeAm posted:There will never be an mmo as good as Asheron’s Call was. Yes, it's called Project Gorgon.
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Jun 23, 2019 16:42
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I have tried basically every MMO. Each of them has some specific good things they do but most are overall terrible. My dream MMO is an open world Star Wars universe where you are free to do whatever you want. Own ship, fly around land and visit where ever. Join the empire or rebellion/republic/etc. Or start a massive production of battle droids and take over the galaxy. Seriously, though, I just want to live in the Star Wars universe and let it play it out how it plays out....
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Jun 23, 2019 17:46
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justsharkbait posted:I have tried basically every MMO. Each of them has some specific good things they do but most are overall terrible. My dream MMO is an open world Star Wars universe where you are free to do whatever you want. Own ship, fly around land and visit where ever. Join the empire or rebellion/republic/etc. Or start a massive production of battle droids and take over the galaxy. This game was out in 2003 and called star wars galaxies. I haven't played a single MMO that has come anywhere close to the sandbox that SW galaxies offered. Too bad they hosed it up.
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Jun 23, 2019 17:49
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justsharkbait posted:I have tried basically every MMO. Each of them has some specific good things they do but most are overall terrible. My dream MMO is an open world Star Wars universe where you are free to do whatever you want. Own ship, fly around land and visit where ever. Join the empire or rebellion/republic/etc. Or start a massive production of battle droids and take over the galaxy. Other than flying around landing wherever, that's EVE. And the experience for most people is gonna be that of EVE, getting crushed under the boot of some massive empire they can't possibly compete with. Also sounds very star citizen  That's not really a game, its an idea. A vague concept isn't actually playable.Dpulex posted:This game was out in 2003 and called star wars galaxies. I haven't played a single MMO that has come anywhere close to the sandbox that SW galaxies offered. Too bad they hosed it up. Galaxies was so good, if only they didn't chase WoW and stuck to what they did right. Galaxies with Dark Souls combat would be my god-game. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 17:49
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Are there any good action combat style MMOs going today? That's all I really want out of an MMO at this point. Something with action driven combat and cool dungeons to run through is basically my dream MMO. DFO is super close, Vindictus is really fun but kinda dead and laggy.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:06
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Dpulex posted:This game was out in 2003 and called star wars galaxies. I haven't played a single MMO that has come anywhere close to the sandbox that SW galaxies offered. Too bad they hosed it up. Galaxies was amazing until new player experience. SO i guess just a good SWG is what I want. So somehow mash EVE and SWG together. And the problem with big blocks taking over is always going to be a problem with any open world/territory game. BUT the idea of just roaming the galaxy and coming across a battle with player created star destroyers fighting each other and seeing other ships jump in. IDK, IT SOUNDS AMAZING IN MY HEAD.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:10
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justsharkbait posted:IDK, IT SOUNDS AMAZING IN MY HEAD. I don't mean to rag on you too much, but this is what Star Citizen backers think too. And they've spent thousands of dollars in the pursuit of it. But a game isn't in your head, and it can't be a virtual world. Its a facade of a virtual world. Even the best of them, Everquest, Star Wars Galaxies, they really just did a couple things kinda well and then the rest of the game was boring and repetitive as all hell. But as long as you nail something then its fun and that's what matters. Galaxes + EVE is at least not too insane, although the two are kinda opposed and putting them together likely creates something worse than either, not better. EVE tried to incorporate their FPS game into the MMO and it was a huge flop because the games were on too different a scale, they couldn't create something meaningful between them. One always ended up having a negative impact on the other. Another example is Diablo 3, which promised pvp on the box, and yet never released pvp. They spent months trying to make it work but balancing it with the pve was impossible. They found they were basically making a whole other 2nd game at that point and gave up. So you gotta be careful with those dreams of the "everything" game. That said, I do think you could make a really cool MMO with different features that appeal to different people. FFXIV tries to go there with the disciples of the land, disciples of the hand, disciples of war thing, but overall the land/hand stuff is your basic wow style trades where you just run around clicking on things, they're not deep enough to be a full game on their own if you never play a war class. I'd like to see them be more detailed so you could have people play the whole game as just a tradesman and get a rich experience, and have someone else play the whole game as just a warrior, and both interact with each other from their different roles. WoW did a thing in the burning crusade days where if you wanted to make certain rare trade materials, you had to go out deep into the world and find a certain structure out in the zones and do your crafting THERE. And you could only craft so many per week so you had to keep going back. I really like the idea of a tradesman who has to like go into a volcano to blacksmith a really cool magic sword, but he can't fight himself, so he has to hire bodyguards to escort him to the forge so he can work the sword while they fight off goblins or whatever. That kind of asymmetric experience so you actually have people playing roles and depending on each other, along with having natural "player quests" where people have needs and depend on others to help them get the job done, so people seek each other out instead of just clicking on the next ! npc and avoiding other humans. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 18:27
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Zaphod42 posted:Other than flying around landing wherever, that's EVE. And the experience for most people is gonna be that of EVE, getting crushed under the boot of some massive empire they can't possibly compete with. I'm pretty sure they added atmospheric flight right at the end of SWG, i dont think you could land anywhere you wanted but you could fly over all the cities and shoot stuff or fight other ships in the air.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:29
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Ahdinko posted:I'm pretty sure they added atmospheric flight right at the end of SWG, i dont think you could land anywhere you wanted but you could fly over all the cities and shoot stuff or fight other ships in the air. Yeah I'm saying EVE doesn't have that.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:33
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Zaphod42 posted:I don't mean to rag on you too much, but this is what Star Citizen backers think too. And they've spent thousands of dollars in the pursuit of it. I never paid any money to SC, because as good as it sounded, it seemed too good to be true. There is a game in development called Dual Universe that seems to be what I am looking for but I am just watching it develop ATM. But about the rest you said. I don't think an "everything" game is what I am talking about. I have played EVE for about a decade now. It is not an everything game, but there is a lot about it I love, and a good bit that is annoying. You can't please everyone or get everything right. I mean let's take WoW. I have played it, and it is very fun and super polished but it just never captured me the way EVE did. SGW despite its flaws was amazing. I could care less about questing. It is a big reason of why I like EVE. You can do what you want, AND i love PVP so its about as PVP-focused as you can get. Currently Conqueror's Blade is looking descent despite some glaring issues that need to be fixed. But it has that open world do what you want idea. So while I agree the "everything" MMO will never happen as its too much, I do think that a truly good, fun, engaging, PVP-focused open-world MMO with space travel set in SW is possible with our current level of technology.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:43
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Aren't there SWG private servers? Or do they all suck rear end?
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Jun 23, 2019 18:47
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Glenn Quebec posted:Aren't there SWG private servers? Or do they all suck rear end? There is one main one, and I looked into it but never gave it a try. It a really dated game and it would be difficult to get back into it for me.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:50
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justsharkbait posted:There is one main one, and I looked into it but never gave it a try. It a really dated game and it would be difficult to get back into it for me. I've been playing a lot of Conqueror's Blade and its great. If the updates are strong, it could become and excellent game.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:51
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Glenn Quebec posted:Aren't there SWG private servers? Or do they all suck rear end? A goon (Levarris) runs one called Stardust, there's probably half a dozen private servers still running, i think the actual game source code was leaked a few years back so they managed to run the game again. There's two "big" ones, SWGemu which is an emulator of the "old school" version of the game that they've coded themselves. The other is called SWG Legends which I think pretty much took the leaked source code and then developed on top of it, going in their own direction Ahdinko fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 18:53
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justsharkbait posted:So while I agree the "everything" MMO will never happen as its too much, I do think that a truly good, fun, engaging, PVP-focused open-world MMO with space travel set in SW is possible with our current level of technology. For sure. But you mentioned more before justsharkbait posted:My dream MMO is an open world Star Wars universe where you are free to do whatever you want. Own ship, fly around land and visit where ever. Join the empire or rebellion/republic/etc. Or start a massive production of battle droids and take over the galaxy. The part where you land anywhere and visit things and build an army and take over the galaxy is where it rapidly spirals out into "everything" game. If its purely ships in space, that's fine. But then that's EVE. You're just asking for EVE but with Star Wars models then. Or Elite: Dangerous, which is another "sounds good but in practice gets old fast" game, unfortunately.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:58
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Zaphod42 posted:For sure. But you mentioned more before I watch movies like Rogue One or any of the new Star Wars movies/games, and I see Star Destroyers parking above cities invading. You see amazing looking space battles while also having ground battles going on. Even Return of the Jedi with the Endor space and ground battle. I would say I want a game just gives us that, but it needs to have more detail because then its just a shooter and we have plenty garbage ones of those. I guess it is harder to put into words then I thought. But I would sacrifice the freedom to fly around a planet like Space Engineer style in favor of really in depth open space travel. Like Freelancer or the X game series except other ships could just as easily be players as NPCs. You can still land at predetermined spots on planets. But then it brings up the issue of how do players create cities/space station/empires. So a single player doing that is obviously not possible. But at the same time I would love to own a personal capital ship. The idea of parking my star destroyer and taking a tie interceptor or shuttle to a station/planet seems amazing. Or having players land at your capital ship while you warp into a battle and launch from there, or having everyone meet and jump to a planet you are invading and having to launch the ground invasion while also keeping tabs on the space battle so you don't lose your ship. It does seem like a lot but i still think it is possible.
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Jun 23, 2019 19:19
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