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I went for it because even though I've gotten two crisis warnings and should really not lose any bros I can't resist the lure of named items. For whatever reason, both Beastmasters forgot to master their beasts and the Unholds went wild almost immediately. It still was a fight against 4 Unholds, 2 of them armored, so some bros got injured. But at least the Thralls lived long enough for me to finish off one of the Unholds unmolested. (The named armor is 339/-33 plate mail, so I can't complain.) Further adventures in the north led to this:  gamesshouldsticktowhattheyregoodatalsodonteverplayironman.jpg I like the second Ijirok fight but gently caress this.
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Jun 14, 2019 01:58
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That fight went way better for me once I embraced the 2h mace strat. That and throwing a dog down to maybe buy me an extra round. I’m honestly not sure how you can kill him otherwise, that cleaver is so god drat brutal.
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Jun 14, 2019 02:02
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In my last run I had a Dodge, Relentless, 2 stars in MDef, Overwhelm Ratcatcher that managed to just not get hit. In this run, I don't currently have a bro that I think can handle him that the game will actually let me use. I sent in the bro with the highest defense I could use to see if he could do it but the dice weren't with him.
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Jun 14, 2019 02:06
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Mazz posted:That fight went way better for me once I embraced the 2h mace strat. That and throwing a dog down to maybe buy me an extra round. I’m honestly not sure how you can kill him otherwise, that cleaver is so god drat brutal. I beat him once using 400/400 armor. Otherwise yeah a mace dude is probably the best strat.
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Jun 14, 2019 02:28
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So, uh, apparently the runed cleaver is not just the madman's weapon. A chosen champion can have it too. Makes sense considering it's actually mostly the same as the chosen 2 handed regular cleaver. This one only had less fatigue and extra shield damage, no damage buffs  Also for anyone not aware, when you see really high level camps that don't have a champion, if you come back later they might, so if you're in no rush to clear them it's often worthwhile to check a couple times before murdering the camp.
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Jun 14, 2019 05:39
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Mazz posted:So, uh, apparently the runed cleaver is not just the madman's weapon. A chosen champion can have it too. Makes sense considering it's actually mostly the same as the chosen 2 handed regular cleaver. And conversely if you see a camp that has a champion you should attack it immediately because the champion might disappear. Once I was marching up to an orc warlord camp with a champion warlord, ready to attack, and literally like one tile before I reached it it spawned a wandering orc party, which changed the composition of the remaining orcs in the camp, and the champion disappeared. Another time I thought "don't feel like fighting goblins right now I'll get that camp with the champion goblin on my way back from this trip" but by the time I circled back around the champion was gone. Good thing even named goblin weapons suck.
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Jun 14, 2019 05:44
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Should I care overly what backgrounds people have when starting out? Like should I have a list of backgrounds I want like Brawler etc? Or should I just worry about not hiring bad ones? Or should I not worry at all?
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Jun 14, 2019 06:00
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Phigs posted:Should I care overly what backgrounds people have when starting out? Like should I have a list of backgrounds I want like Brawler etc? Or should I just worry about not hiring bad ones? Or should I not worry at all? Some backgrounds are better than others. Brawlers are one of the best cheap backgrounds because they tend to have decent combat stats and they don't come with any lovely gear to inflate their price. Some backgrounds like cripple are generally not worth it because their stats are so bad. But starting stats are only half the battle, by level 11 a generic farmhand with lovely stats but great stars will probably end up better than a brawler with okay stats but no good stars. But conversely the brawler will be way more useful right away and won't need quite as much babying to reach their potential.
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Jun 14, 2019 06:02
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Should I hire/fire a lot for good stats/stars then?
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Jun 14, 2019 06:03
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Phigs posted:Should I hire/fire a lot for good stats/stars then? Depends. Early game you won't have the money to hire/fire a lot so it tends to be better to just shoot for good cheap backgrounds like brawlers and butchers and militiamen (unless you're willing to savescum and just hire everybody to see if they have good stars/traits). Lategame you can hire more expensive but just plain better backgrounds like squires or wildmen or adventurous nobles, who tend to come with decent stats so that even if they don't have good stars, they'll still be pretty good. And sometimes you'll get one with good stats and good stars and they either become a legend or take a crossbow to the face in their first battle.
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Jun 14, 2019 06:09
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Cheers, had this game in my library for ages but it's finally time to dust it off and give it a go.
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Jun 14, 2019 06:33
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TWS Mod comming soon to a forum near you. Get Hype. Just kidding Wiz :P
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Jun 14, 2019 07:46
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vyelkin posted:Depends. Early game you won't have the money to hire/fire a lot so it tends to be better to just shoot for good cheap backgrounds like brawlers and butchers and militiamen (unless you're willing to savescum and just hire everybody to see if they have good stars/traits). Lategame you can hire more expensive but just plain better backgrounds like squires or wildmen or adventurous nobles, who tend to come with decent stats so that even if they don't have good stars, they'll still be pretty good. And sometimes you'll get one with good stats and good stars and they either become a legend or take a crossbow to the face in their first battle. Also, if you get a guy whose stats are really, truly garbage, don't fire him. Give him lovely hand-me-down equipment and send him out wide on a flank to distract a couple of enemies and buy some time for the real fighters to work.
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Jun 14, 2019 11:50
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Yeah typically if i find a guy who's truly lovely he'll last one battle, where he will either die or be severely wounded, then sent home. No compensation.
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Jun 14, 2019 12:03
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Changed cultist conversion events to also allow for converting all characters with brain damage. 
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Jun 14, 2019 16:04
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dogstile posted:Yeah typically if i find a guy who's truly lovely he'll last one battle, where he will either die or be severely wounded, then sent home. I'm not sure what the 'right' answer is, but if you fire them immediately, compensation is only 10 gold to avoid the morale penalty. If they die in battle, you take the morale hit there and on the campaign map, plus having another brother in your company scales the difficulty, though I'm not sure how frequently that's actually recalculated. Phigs posted:Should I care overly what backgrounds people have when starting out? Like should I have a list of backgrounds I want like Brawler etc? Or should I just worry about not hiring bad ones? Or should I not worry at all? Basically, every background has a range of stats for every stat that they can roll within. More expensive/more highborn backgrounds tend to have higher ranges than cheaper/lowborn backgrounds, and you can expect stuff like day laborers to have a higher range of stamina, hunters have a higher range of ranged skill, deserters have a lower range for resolve, etc. The important thing to realize is that all stats are rolled (including daily pay) are rolled independently from each other within those ranges. Given two characters with different pay, there is no reason to expect the more expensive character to be better and there is no balancing faerie that makes sure a character who sucks at one thing is good at anything else. Also, stars and perks, which are bigger drivers of a character's ultimate quality than starting stats anyways are mostly random (I think). Finally, the hiring cost itself is primarily driven by paying a premium for whatever gear the character comes with. Because it's possible to blow 5,000 gold on an Asthmatic Noble with all of his stars in Initiative and Ranged Defense (but wearing chainmail!) and it's possible to hire a shirtless Brawler with 2 awesome perks and 3 stars in Melee Attack, conventional wisdom is that it's better to hire low/medium unless you have money to burn, unless you want to save scum or download a mod that cheats the preview mechanic. Avasculous fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jun 14, 2019 |
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Jun 14, 2019 23:54
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stars are just about as relevant as starting stats I think each one is worth five-ish points if you up that stat every single level
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Jun 15, 2019 00:33
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Yeah ok, I should have qualified that. If you look here: https://battlebrothers.fandom.com/wiki/Character_Backgrounds You can see all of the ranges and averages. For stats like Melee Attack, the difference in average between some of the lowborn classes (Brawler, Lumberjack, Farmhand) and all of the highborn classes (except Swordmaster) is between the value you'd expect to get at max level from 1 and 2 stars. My point was just that while the Highborn classes do have higher starting stats on average, it's by surprisingly small margins, and the right/wrong stars and perks on either end of the comparison can easily be a bigger deal.
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Jun 15, 2019 02:26
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Avasculous posted:I'm not sure what the 'right' answer is, but if you fire them immediately, compensation is only 10 gold to avoid the morale penalty. I typically hire after i take a mission, i've just always assumed the the mission calculates for current dudes.
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Jun 15, 2019 03:04
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So are farmhands still really solid hires? It seems like they should be but I feel like they're more expensive than before.
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Jun 15, 2019 09:02
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WarpedLichen posted:So are farmhands still really solid hires? It seems like they should be but I feel like they're more expensive than before. I think they got nerfed a bit in a patch around the same time as the DLC. It seems they're a bit more expensive than before and I've noticed they have worse resolve than before as well. They can still be worth it if you get one with good rolls and stars, but they aren't automatic hires like they used to be.
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Jun 15, 2019 09:07
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I'm pretty sure their stats didn't change. They always had slightly lower than base Resolve. Their wages went up but they're still cheap to hire, so it's not too bad. They were never amazing early hires in my opinion. Their main draw is their 100-120 Fatigue range but the 20 point range here (usually 90-100) makes them more interesting for later on when you can hire & fire 10 cheap bros in a row. The extra Fatigue also isn't that relevant early on unless you really love Spearwall in an actually romantic sense. And even a minor Resolve penalty isn't good in the early game when most weapons will immediately do HP damage and you've got no sergeant or banner. The extra HP are nice, though, and Farmhands are still good. I'll still take one on day 1 if he comes with a pitchfork. But generally I'll try to find backgrounds with bonuses to Resolve and Melee Skill or at least Defense first early on - Graverobbers, Butchers, Brawlers, Miners etc.
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Jun 15, 2019 16:01
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Aww yeah first warlord down and a named armor in the loot. Let's see...
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Jun 15, 2019 17:53
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Some upstart decided to crown himself king of the ....wait its YOU
Mazz fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 18:16
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brakeless posted:Aww yeah first warlord down and a named armor in the loot. Let's see... rofl
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Jun 15, 2019 19:01
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brakeless posted:Aww yeah first warlord down and a named armor in the loot. Let's see... I dunno looks p comfy
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Jun 15, 2019 20:20
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It's a perfectly good coat. 
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Jun 15, 2019 22:23
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If you save just out of sight of the Icy Cave before you attack it you can save scum the stats on the cleaver the madman drops.
Bogarts fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 23:33
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The Lone Wolf start has left me with a new appreciation of what is actually a good bro. Slowly building up with only the best of the best has me leaving out the hybrid throwers and other faff. I have one sergeant that is also an overwhelm scythe master, two greatswords, two hammerers, two overwhelm archer snipers, a couple of cleaver masters (1 is two handed and the other a duelist) and some crossbow polearm lads I'm still not sure about. The backgrounds are mostly nobles, sellswords and raiders with enough stars and stats to make a hedge knight blush. Sticking to just the basic twelve and building up slowly makes this a very different game. Also, I have 2 bros from early game with lone wolf, and I find that having them off to the side drawing attention and doing murder is quite workable. Especially when some are out because of injuries and I need to deal with some patrol crap that's not a huge challenge. 8 man crew is enough for all but the hardest fights. With hexen, just bring the high resolve guys, send in the lone wolves to smash the witches and all is good. Also, whips for these fights are great as when someone gets charmed, a battleforged bro gives no poo poo about a whipping, and disarms saves on tools. Not quite ready for the monolith but getting there. Chosen are still a bother. May switch lancers for macemen, not sure yet. I wonder if the militia start shall turn this on its head.
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Jun 16, 2019 02:24
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Got ambushed by a group of 9 alps again while running around, they're still absolutely miserable and borderline impossible if you're not prepared specifically for them, and if you're not it's a real run-ender. Please delete Alps from the game. Edit: Also fun fact: If you press retreat, even if there's no nightmares on the board, if one of your guys runs close to an alp, they will summon more, which usually means the death of one or two guys since the nightmares can't miss.
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Jun 16, 2019 07:58
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TheBeardyCleaver posted:The Lone Wolf start has left me with a new appreciation of what is actually a good bro. Slowly building up with only the best of the best has me leaving out the hybrid throwers and other faff. This is pretty much my long lone wolf game approach too. I have 1 greatsword, 2 hammers (one pole, 1 reg), 2 axes (bardiche, barb 2H), 2 cleavers (2 barb 2H + whip) 1 sarg, (warscythe), 1 2H mace (leftover from a shieldbro but good) and 3 archers (2 war, 1 xbow). I didn't put lone wolf on anyone but I did put underdog on everyone so I can get caught out and not take any excess penalty from it, otherwise I try to stay in some type of supporting formation since I often find I have to save a guy who got hit with some bad RNG, especially against chosen. I've seriously just written shields off on anyone over 11 now, if they don't have 30+ MDef they aren't worth keeping long term at this point. Chosen and Honor Guard don’t gently caress around. My polearm/polehammers often just stay in the front line with my other 2Hs, they are stat'd just as well so I treat them like regular 2H. The named warscythe in particular is brutal this way, as I can often step once and hit 3 enemies in turn 1 or 2. My one comment is both the kraken and monolith feel penalizing to archers in a lone wolf game for different reasons; without ruining them for you if you haven't tried just know that both the fights have very little in the way of opportunity to actually shoot anything worthwhile. If your archers or polearm/xbow dudes are low on MAtk (>60 minimum), they'll probably feel like liabilities in those fights. You can try to bench them but both fights have a fixed number of targets so you aren't actually benefiting from doing that. I grabbed the 16 bros in Lone Wolf mod just so I could level up some more melee and not have to abandon my 100 skill archers I've had for hundreds of days. Trying to take advantage of that extra by making interesting dudes like a daggerbro and a barbarian I picked up off an event in full barbarian gear. Mazz fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jun 16, 2019 |
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Jun 16, 2019 16:15
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Mazz posted:This is pretty much my long lone wolf game approach too. I have 1 greatsword, 2 hammers (one pole, 1 reg), 2 axes (bardiche, barb 2H), 2 cleavers (2 barb 2H + whip) 1 sarg, (warscythe), 1 2H mace (leftover from a shieldbro but good) and 3 archers (2 war, 1 xbow). I didn't put lone wolf on anyone but I did put underdog on everyone so I can get caught out and not take any excess penalty from it, otherwise I try to stay in some type of supporting formation since I often find I have to save a guy who got hit with some bad RNG, especially against chosen. I've seriously just written shields off on anyone over 11 now, if they don't have 30+ MDef they aren't worth keeping long term at this point. Chosen and Honor Guard don’t gently caress around. Yea, shields are just not worth it at max level. I use them in my raider game because I found a couple of tiny thieves with tons of melee def, but I leave them out a lot tbh. It may be that I let the archers go for the real endgame fights, 12 battleforged juggernauts should be able to murder it all. Perhaps do the goblin city first, so that I have some sniping power. I may get some Potions of Forgetfulness (yes, I did forget the name, ha!) and remove Lonewolf and fortified mind for something else on the two that has it. Gonna try it without the mod and see how it goes. Currently working on an axe bro, but a decent named bardiche has yet to appear. I think my cleaver duelist may not be great for the monolith, and I likely need maces to stave off the barbarians.
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Jun 16, 2019 17:52
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I've been watching some dude on an 800+ days playthrough, and he has a couple throwing specialists that absolute dominate the killcounts, leaving all other bros in the dust, so I think there might be something there. According to him it's really not worth making them hybrid though.
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Jun 16, 2019 18:42
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Broken Cog posted:I've been watching some dude on an 800+ days playthrough, and he has a couple throwing specialists that absolute dominate the killcounts, leaving all other bros in the dust, so I think there might be something there. I can believe it, I built a throwing specialist and it took a while to get him off the ground but once he picked up Duelist and got his ranged attack high enough, those heavy barbarian axes are beastly and he does get a lot of kills.
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Jun 16, 2019 18:46
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Broken Cog posted:I've been watching some dude on an 800+ days playthrough, and he has a couple throwing specialists that absolute dominate the killcounts, leaving all other bros in the dust, so I think there might be something there. Who was it? Would like to see that.
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Jun 16, 2019 18:49
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Funso Banjo posted:Who was it? Would like to see that. https://www.twitch.tv/foldupgorilla
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Jun 16, 2019 18:50
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Broken Cog posted:I've been watching some dude on an 800+ days playthrough, and he has a couple throwing specialists that absolute dominate the killcounts, leaving all other bros in the dust, so I think there might be something there. I'm only using 14/16 at the moment basically on the grounds that I want to find a 3 star ranged dude to make a throwing specialist. I also think having a spot open in the party lets you trigger those events where you get free bros, like the barbarian I picked up on the road out of town. Honestly I find more than a 2-3 man bench kind of tedious anyway, I forget to rotate them enough. That's probably my biggest hurdle with actually playing a militia game, I don't really care for the giant party element, just the extra 4 in play, and it takes so long to get those 16 to a competent level. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jun 16, 2019 |
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Jun 16, 2019 19:22
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Man, Fencers are so much fun to play around with, I gotta make one of these for every company from now on.
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Jun 17, 2019 10:00
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Mazz posted:I'm only using 14/16 at the moment basically on the grounds that I want to find a 3 star ranged dude to make a throwing specialist. I also think having a spot open in the party lets you trigger those events where you get free bros, like the barbarian I picked up on the road out of town. Honestly I find more than a 2-3 man bench kind of tedious anyway, I forget to rotate them enough. That's probably my biggest hurdle with actually playing a militia game, I don't really care for the giant party element, just the extra 4 in play, and it takes so long to get those 16 to a competent level. Yeah, I'm using the 16 party mod for lone wolf also, and running with 14, so I can swap out archers and so I have extra slots for recruiting -- I want to try some very specific warscythe and duelist builds out this run and there's a lot of hiring and firing before I can find an appropriate bro for them.
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Jun 17, 2019 13:58
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I gave a bro dagger mastery with the obsidian blade and it’s amazing fighting barbarians. Chosen weiders are like big ol’ meat shields. Just swapping him around finishing dudes off so rotation is a must. Also I gave another guy with a named 1h mace that had +19% ArPen duelist and he was nearly one shotting honor guard. I’m thinking one secret to fighting undead is a ton of ArPen, they seem to only have 50-60 HP. It’s probably why they have that innate ranged resistance; crossbows would murder them. I’m thinking a throwing specialist with barb axes would definitely murder them, I’ve read the ranged resistance doesn’t apply to thrown. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, I'm using the 16 party mod for lone wolf also, and running with 14, so I can swap out archers and so I have extra slots for recruiting -- I want to try some very specific warscythe and duelist builds out this run and there's a lot of hiring and firing before I can find an appropriate bro for them. This is partly the reason I still haven’t finished any of the legendary fights yet; I’m too attached to most of my guys to lose any which is probably impossible in most of these, at least right now without those last few replacements, if at all.  Finding and training up qualified dudes takes a surprisingly long time when everyone else murders everything.
Mazz fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jun 17, 2019 |
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Jun 17, 2019 16:06
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