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Jarmak posted:I find myself unable to pick a load out lately that doesn't have bloodlust, especially now that I've started getting better at the game. I don't necessarily think it's overpowered but it's a complete gamechanger because it means I can keep going after every fight I win, even if it's 1vX. When I started playing it didn't seem *that* good and I'd rather take points in something that would help me win a fight, but now that I'm better and win the majority of my 1v1s it feels almost necessary to take if I want to win 2, 3 or 4 fights. Bloodlust is incredibly good, as evidenced by the fact that every other person has it, but I think it's a bit overrated. I think 1 point in bandage is a much better investment. You already get a decent chunk of health back from a kill without bloodlust, and bandage gives you 2 opportunities to heal up if you get even a second of breathing room, and you can refill them at any ammo station. I think bandage is probably the best item in the entire game for Frontlines. Gobblecoque posted:I get that you really like swords but maybe consider playing with the weapons that are giving you so much grief. It's very easy to blame your opponent's weapon choice instead of admitting that you might not be quite as good as you think you are. Learning the strengths and weaknesses firsthand of the stuff that's tripping you up is a good way to shake off that mindset and will leave you better prepared to combat them when you encounter them again. I took this advice last night after saying Messer was my kryptonite. I haven't played it long enough to suss out any weaknesses, but I found a new weapon that I enjoy using! It was great because I had almost no learning time with it, I just hoped in, thought about what I usually fall victim to, and I immediately started carving through people. So much fun. Anyone have any thoughts on 1h vs. 2h Messer?
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Jun 14, 2019 16:21
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cerebral posted:Anyone have any thoughts on 1h vs. 2h Messer?
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Jun 14, 2019 16:26
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cerebral posted:Anyone have any thoughts on 1h vs. 2h Messer? One of my more effective messer builds is light and mobile with dodge and a messer and wielding javelins. If you're not running a shield but you have quickly evacuated slots it can be worth it to grab any shields you find lying around temporarily but two hand the rest of the time than throw the shield when you can restock your disposables.
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Jun 14, 2019 16:47
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cerebral posted:Anyone have any thoughts on 1h vs. 2h Messer? I like running it without a shield and if my initial attacks/feints don't take I might switch just to modify my attack timings and throw off whoever I'm fighting. Also some people seem to have a harder time reading feints/morphs from 1 handed for some reason, especially in frontline where you aren't laser focused on one person. Generally I default to 2h though, it's faster a little and my style with messer is to be balls out aggressive.
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Jun 14, 2019 16:53
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cerebral posted:Bloodlust is incredibly good, as evidenced by the fact that every other person has it, but I think it's a bit overrated. I have doubts about bloodlust. My experience in Frontline has been that it's pretty unlikely to get a steady stream of 1v1s where it would really fulfill its potential while coming fast enough that you couldn't heal with tenacious or a bandage instead. And in the 1vX situations I think it's almost always a better protocol to avoid those situations in the first place and/or stall for time until some teammates catch up to your position. Your biggest problem in those fights is getting a word in edgewise at all, not lacking the endurance to make multiple kills. I think the perk is popular because it sounds so amazing on paper, but in reality you'll have better staying power by saving the points and playing more conservatively instead.
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Jun 14, 2019 16:59
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ya I don't see the point of bloodlust... If you're taking a ton of damage you're going to die. Just take less damage and spend 1 point on bandages.
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Jun 14, 2019 17:14
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I could use some help. I currently am trying to plan a shield, rapier, firebomb and/or recurve bow build or javelin (best build for playing in third person ). I believe camp has a shield you can find on the ground allowing me to take everything else and possibly dodge, are there any other maps that have findable rapier, shield or bows? that way I can tailor a few builds for each map. Generally the plan is to get the horse right away , go to the weapon I’m missing pick it up.
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Jun 14, 2019 17:27
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soy posted:ya I don't see the point of bloodlust... If you're taking a ton of damage you're going to die. Just take less damage and spend 1 point on bandages. Its optimal with like, very specific weapons. I'd say war axe, messer, maybe long sword, maybe estoc or poleaxe. Any weapon more expensive and you'll have too little armour and die too quick, any cheaper weapons and you'll struggle to kill enough
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Jun 14, 2019 17:27
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A real good build is 3/3/3 with heavy handaxe javelins and bandages. So versatile, very survivable.
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Jun 14, 2019 17:31
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Ristolaz posted:Its optimal with like, very specific weapons. I'd say war axe, messer, maybe long sword, maybe estoc or poleaxe. I usually take 2/2/1 and an Estoc (or 2/2/0 and great Sword) or I take a 3/3/2 and a arming sword with scavenger then try to poach a heavy hitter Honestly it's not so much the steady stream of 1v1s that's made me feel like I'm missing something without it, it's been getting to the point where a 2v1 doesn't feel intimidating.
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Jun 14, 2019 17:39
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a cat youtube posted:I could use some help. I currently am trying to plan a shield, rapier, firebomb and/or recurve bow build or javelin (best build for playing in third person ). I don't have the answer to your actual question, but why base a build around finding equipment on the map? Those pre-placed items don't respawn AFAIK, and you're going to lose whatever you picked up the first time you die (dropped items despawn fairly quickly). If you're planning to scavenge a shield you'll have to get it off of a dead player instead 99% of the time. The map doesn't matter past the first 5-10 minutes of the match.
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Jun 14, 2019 17:42
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TheAardvark posted:I actually started noting down my deaths and kills, and I'm at over 9/10 people I fight as "long-ranged weapons", spears/poleaxes and waraxes. If I'm playing Crossroads or Camp, about 50% of my deaths will be from horses, archers, ballistas, fire bombs, etc. It's a minor miracle if I can finish a melee fight, win or lose, no matter what the opponents are wielding. On actual good map like Grad, yeah, I guess I encounter a lot of spears and the like. Still not entirely sure what the best way is to deal with them.
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Jun 14, 2019 17:45
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Motherfucker posted:A real good build is 3/3/3 with heavy handaxe javelins and bandages. So versatile, very survivable. Thats a solid build but I think that there is very little reason to get level 3 leg armor. Against many weapons it only reduces damage by 5 points or less, and I feel like going down to level 2 legs and spending that point on fireproof or friendly will increase your survivability overall. Or for you build, you could also get wrecker/smith/huntsman
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Jun 14, 2019 17:53
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Ristolaz posted:Thats a solid build but I think that there is very little reason to get level 3 leg armor. Against many weapons it only reduces damage by 5 points or less, and I feel like going down to level 2 legs and spending that point on fireproof or friendly will increase your survivability overall. Or for you build, you could also get wrecker/smith/huntsman You are correct, although the fashion... its... not as good D:
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Jun 14, 2019 18:04
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Ristolaz posted:Thats a solid build but I think that there is very little reason to get level 3 leg armor. Against many weapons it only reduces damage by 5 points or less, and I feel like going down to level 2 legs and spending that point on fireproof or friendly will increase your survivability overall. Or for you build, you could also get wrecker/smith/huntsman on the other hand, level 3 leg armor speed cost is very small and I constantly get out of fights with 1-5 health and bandage
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Jun 14, 2019 18:09
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Motherfucker posted:You are correct, although the fashion... its... not as good D: The mordhau artists skipped leg day for sure
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Jun 14, 2019 18:36
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Motherfucker posted:A real good build is 3/3/3 with heavy handaxe javelins and bandages. So versatile, very survivable. lately ive been playing a lot of 3/3/2 (i think) + heavy hand axe + bloodlust. i like your loadout and am definitely going to try it out. i just cant kill people enough with a 1h weapon to make bloodlust worth it most of the time. i also really like the 3/3/3 arming sword + bloodlust, but again its hard to kill people fast enough most of the time but sometimes i can really get on a roll. i really want to play around with the messer and bastard swords - what's a good decent loadout for those?
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Jun 14, 2019 19:44
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Everybody talking about 3/3/3 vs. 3/3/2 while I just weened myself down to 1/2/0 on most builds ever since I unlocked the landsknecht hat w/ feather. Armor is a prison and a tool of societal oppression.
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Jun 14, 2019 21:19
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It's so funny that the Red spawn on crossroads is on a protected hill with a small ramp onto the walls and the Blue spawn is in a loving open field with easily camped 30 foot ladders as the fastest way in. It's like Triternion is allergic to releasing a balanced map.
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Jun 14, 2019 22:04
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sum posted:It's so funny that the Red spawn on crossroads is on a protected hill with a small ramp onto the walls and the Blue spawn is in a loving open field with easily camped 30 foot ladders as the fastest way in. It's like Triternion is allergic to releasing a balanced map. Running around the wall is faster than climbing the ladders, but even then red can blob up at that opening too. It would be fine if blue could aslo enter somewhere nearby to the left
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Jun 14, 2019 22:25
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timn posted:Everybody talking about 3/3/3 vs. 3/3/2 while I just weened myself down to 1/2/0 on most builds ever since I unlocked the landsknecht hat w/ feather. Armor is a prison and a tool of societal oppression. Yeah, same. Wearing armour indicates you're planning on getting hit, and that's just not a winning mindset.  Also finally managed to get my Landsknecht murderbarbie together after spending way too much gold on him. Still annoyed that there are so few decent pants options, and no goddamn codpieces anywhere. 
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Jun 14, 2019 22:31
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The landshneckt pants have a small codpiece
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Jun 14, 2019 22:47
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sum posted:It's so funny that the Red spawn on crossroads is on a protected hill with a small ramp onto the walls and the Blue spawn is in a loving open field with easily camped 30 foot ladders as the fastest way in. It's like Triternion is allergic to releasing a balanced map. If you were dumb enough to join the blue team on Crossroads (or to play Crossroads at all) you will immediately get run down by 5,000 horses within seconds of spawning
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Jun 14, 2019 22:52
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Bloodlust is best when combined with full heavy armor and a weapon capable of one or two shot instakills, so you basically need to kill someone using a real weapon with a cheap one. It's a perk that allows you to take really dumb sustained fights against large numbers of enemies that you otherwise would be a big idiot for taking, and if you're not using it for that then you should probably just take bandages and learn to take better fights. The way you leverage bloodlust in frontline is by using riposte target switching and attacking the extra people in a fight that are actively attacking you. The ideal exchange goes: 1 attacks you -> block -> riposte into 2's head as he is attacking you, so he cannot block. When you're using any of the instakill weapons you'll eat the hit and immediately heal with one less person fighting you. If you need two shots to kill them due to armor or whatever factor, your heavy armor will let you tank a few more hits to get the exchange to go through and you'll be back on even footing. You basically prioritize taking winning trades by riposting weapons that will kill you and eating the hits that won't kill you as long as it nets you the kill and resets the playing field for you. If some dumbass without a helmet that doesn't understand how to block bumrushes into the fight against you because he sees a 3v1 and thinks that he will help by turning it into a 4v1 your job gets even easier, because you have an opportunity there to get a free heal and potential for a few more hits that will prime the not-terrible people you're fighting for killing. Bloodlust is exactly what it says on the tin. You aren't using it to take 1v1s or smart fights, you're using it to yeet yourself into the heart of the fight with as many enemies around you as possible so you can paint the two hander you wrenched out of someone's hand red as fast as possible.
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Jun 14, 2019 22:54
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yeah going to second bloodlust not being a great pick unless you're wearing at least 3/3/2, preferably 3/3/3. Bandages are dope as hell and you could be using those as your heal enhancer and loading up on stronger weapons with your extra point from not having armor and BL the only real time I'd recommend Tenacious, especially over bandages, is if you're playing a degenerate ranger or thrower because you're going to be hiding all the time anyway. Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Jun 14, 2019 |
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Jun 14, 2019 23:48
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A big thing that is often overlooked by a lot of players is that even without bloodlust you still get +25 health for every kill. I remember seeing a clip on reddit titled something like "omg bloodlust is so op" where the poster went on an impressive kill streak but at no point did taking bloodlust actually make any difference at all.
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Jun 15, 2019 01:38
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I am also of the opinion that bloodlust is overhyped for what it provides especially since you can grab bandages and javelins with armor to spare for its price.
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Jun 15, 2019 01:55
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Bloodlust is ok but you need the armor to make it. Bloodlust on a naked guy is like 'ok you're all healed, before you were close to death but now you're... still one hit away from death' the real strength of it is that you no longer need to stop fighting just because someone is pelting arrows at you.timn posted:Everybody talking about 3/3/3 vs. 3/3/2 while I just weened myself down to 1/2/0 on most builds ever since I unlocked the landsknecht hat w/ feather. Armor is a prison and a tool of societal oppression. Low armors got a place but mostly that place is 'behind a big long defensive weapon'. Some real pro slick mlg types like to go full dodge with an arming sword or whatever and almost all of them meet a messer or war axe face first on the regular, Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 04:17
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Yeah, your priorities in positioning need to shift in light armor to mostly avoid the one-shot weapons being fielded, but you otherwise get the option of who you engage on. I cannot stress enough how good rush is with light armor users, because it gives you the option of either repositioning in a fight after getting a pick, engaging on wounded targets who think they have withdrawn before they can react, or hard disengaging out of a fight when too many people have collapsed on you. I mostly use short weapons like handaxes, arming swords, rapiers, falchions, etc. because another strength of light armor is that while you're fighting people, especially with heavier polearms, you can do walk-bys on their swings even without dodge. If you learn how to perform footwork you can just walk around swinging or stabbing in a fight even if people are intentionally trying to engage on you and not get hit. Longswords have been made decent for light armor rushers because of the relatively wide cleave and the really low strike release, so you can outturn most people during a fight while running around with it (which is where your footwork and maneuvering will gently caress most players up.) The handaxe is also completely obnoxious with how quickly it combos, and is also capable of one-shotting unarmored heads.
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Jun 15, 2019 04:38
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Commoners posted:Yeah, your priorities in positioning need to shift in light armor to mostly avoid the one-shot weapons being fielded, but you otherwise get the option of who you engage on. I cannot stress enough how good rush is with light armor users, because it gives you the option of either repositioning in a fight after getting a pick, engaging on wounded targets who think they have withdrawn before they can react, or hard disengaging out of a fight when too many people have collapsed on you. This is really a key point, and one that I have to remind myself of whenever I put on light armor. I'm so used to heavy armor and just wading into the middle of a scrum over t that I do the same thing in light armor and it just does not work at all. I'm such a homer for this game. I recognize that it has its flaws, but being able to jump in and crush skulls or lop legs off and feel like I win or lose based on my skill, or lack thereof, rather than lovely weapon balance is just so much fun to me. I haven't enjoyed an online game this much in years. I'm going to take poo poo for this I'm sure, but I can't ever remember playing an online game where the weapons are all so balanced and satisfying to use. I can't think of a single weapon that I think is ridiculously overpowered or ridiculously underpowered. Certainly not this close to release. Every other night I try a new weapon and fall in love with it and I want to come in and post about how great it is.
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Jun 15, 2019 05:04
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The only weapons I can’t stand fighting against are zweihanders (because they’re always slightly longer and slightly faster than I expect), messers (I am, for some reason, completely incapable of reading any messer attacks and will block all of them with my face) and rapiers (because I feel like countering rapier thrust spam takes way more effort on my part than it does for the wielder to smash their scroll wheel up). All of the issues here aren’t that the weapons are OP, it’s that I’m bad and need to git gud. but for real gently caress rapiers
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Jun 15, 2019 06:14
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Yeah I don't like rapiers either, the only viable strategy feels like chamber-morphing, or if they're dumb kicking them (but that's risky as hell) which takes more effort than for scroll spam. When they're on you its hard to get them off.
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Jun 15, 2019 06:25
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NigelThornberry posted:Yeah I don't like rapiers either, the only viable strategy feels like chamber-morphing, or if they're dumb kicking them (but that's risky as hell) which takes more effort than for scroll spam. When they're on you its hard to get them off. In frontline, since I'm not good enough to chamber 100% of the time (rapiers are just so drat fast) I just block all their attacks and wait for a teammate with a huge sharpened (or blunt, same to me  ) piece of metal to notice the situation and murder him from behind. When no teammate comes I eventually gently caress up and die, but I can usually last long enough against scrubs that just mash stab.In my medium/light armor builds I go for the huge fuckoff weapons (maul for 1hk on heads and anyone already damaged, halberd/spear for staying away from the fight and poking people to death, zweihander for slashing wildly and cutting down friend and foe alike), otherwise it's 3/3/2 all the way baby, plus any weapon I like which is most of them! I have a ton of pre-set builds with different weapons, though my favorites are greatsword and eveningstar, with a splash of messer when I just feel like facehugging people and lopping off heads and arms. When I want to be an rear end, I have a 3/3/1 short spear, shield and heavy handaxe for pissing people off on frontline. Pro tip for that: don't actually use your held shield block all the time! When in 1vs1 especially, use it at the last moment like a parry, so people won't be inclined to kick you (and if they do expecting you to raise the shield, you can walk backwards to avoid it and punish them hard) TorakFade fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 08:33
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For me rapiers are mostly annoying when fighting multiple enemies because the difference in speed will throw me off. In 1v1 the overwhelming majority of rapiers I've seen will just assume that the speed will overwhelming you and you'll panic parry and die so when you don't panic they collapse really quick.
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Jun 15, 2019 08:42
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The biggest thing with the rapier is that it is such a high pressure weapon that if you can't get rid of a rapier user quickly then they can tie up all of your defensive resources and leave you vulnerable to any of their teammates even if they can't deal with you alone. I usually use mine when my team has poo poo the bed and they can't be depended on for anything. Rapiers are at their strongest when you can create a fight with a lot of space between you and multiple people, because you can whip around and poke people in the face by just constantly target switching. Most players will completely fold when you start target switching and will miss every single one of their parries on you, and as long as you are running and thrusting while in light armor most people will kind of trail behind you trying to also stab you in the back and the pursuit mechanic won't let them close ground while you peck at the other person. If people collapse in and get shoulder to shoulder in a 2v1/3v1 against you it's in your interest to either get a kill quickly or back out of the fight and let them spread out again, because using the rapier and blocking with it or a buckler is still super stamina intensive and you'll lose any sustained stamina trades against pretty much any other weapon.
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Jun 15, 2019 11:29
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Yeah, the main thing about rapiers is mostly that there's a pretty significant mismatch between the effort required to counter them in group combat and the effort it takes for them to be a pokey nuisance. If I'm in a groupfight against two people with, say, axes or longswords or whatever, then I can reasonably split my attention between the two of them. Successfully evading an attack from one enemy means I now have a bit of amount of time to handle the other one before having to deal with to the first one again. When a rapier is involved, that's not really feasible anymore. That thrust windup is so quick and the recovery so short that you basically have to devote 90% of your attention to the rapier, because looking away even for a moment gets you stabbed before you have time to turn back. And since it's got decent reach as well, you can't easily play footsies against it like you could against a war axe or maul. Its recovery is also short enough that you're really hard pressed to punish whiffs when they do occur. Pre-empting their attacks with an aggressive surprise accel is also rather tricky, because of that very short windup.
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Jun 15, 2019 11:59
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Yeah, I'm not going to lie, I often have trouble dealing with the stab-spam weapons as well. When people talk talk chamber-morphing, that means you stab at the same time as your opponent and then immediately combo into a slash? Won't they just block that?
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Jun 15, 2019 12:02
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Phlegmish posted:Yeah, I'm not going to lie, I often have trouble dealing with the stab-spam weapons as well. Yes, invariably. But it does mean they've lost the initiative.
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Jun 15, 2019 12:05
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It's the same thing as a normal morph. If they attempt to parry your initial attack it will be too early, their parry will whiff and your morphed attack will hit them instead. The reason why morphs are especially effective off of a chamber is two fold: 1. Most people are pretty strongly conditioned to panic parry when they get chambered because they know from the distinctive sound that a counterattack is coming in quickly. 2. If the chamber is a stab, most people who don't panic parry are instead pretty strongly conditioned to stab right back in order to counter chamber you, which will fail because you've morphed to a swing instead (or might just stuff you instead if their stab is faster than your morphed strike?)
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Jun 15, 2019 12:13
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timn posted:(or might just stuff you instead if their stab is faster than your morphed strike?) It's this, the rapier stab comes out in 0.00005 seconds so chamber morphing them only works if they stop attacking (they won't) or your weapon is stupidly fast and you accel the swing. Basically you have to be super good to even have a chance to maybe hit them once while they press one button over and over forever.
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