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Jun 15, 2019 17:05
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Plutonis posted:New footage of the tanker incident iranian superman ftw
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Jun 15, 2019 17:23
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I am the Nuclear Ayatollah, ask me anything
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Jun 15, 2019 17:25
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https://twitter.com/BretStephensNYT/status/1139697815389519872?s=19 What the fuckkk
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Jun 15, 2019 17:35
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Jun 15, 2019 17:37
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I see you have no arguments other than your existing biases. But don't let me stop you from making a snappy comment.
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Jun 15, 2019 17:42
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Jun 15, 2019 17:46
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Brown Moses posted:Seeing you all appear to think my opinion on this incident is so important you can go read it in the New York Times: i'd like to thank you for being stupid enough to post somewhere i can do things like this, idiot (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 15, 2019 17:55
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Jun 15, 2019 18:04
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oh wow just witnessed my first brown moses Incident, feel like i'm becoming one of the boys here in c-spam. hopefully the NYT keep hiring his CIA funded journalism group to draw arrows in MS paint for the benefit of grown men who wanna do genocides
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Jun 15, 2019 18:08
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How long will it take to capture Tehran? 2 days Will Rouhani be killed? Yes Total Iran civillian casualties: 500 dead Total military casualties Iran: 3000 dead Total military casualties U.S.: 15 dead Will the Iranian army regulars hold the lines? No Will the Republican Guard fight to the end? No Will chem/bio weapons be used on invading troops?: Yes Will Rouhani launch attacks on the Kurds? Yes Will Rouhani launch attacks on Israel? No -If yes; will Isreal retaliate harshly? Yes Will Rouhani sacrifice Tehran(gas/nuke it)? No Will the Kurds make a grab for independence? Yes Will Iraq do anything silly like try for land? Yes Will Rouhani burn the oil fields? Yes How long will the US be occupying Iran? ~15 years Will the Iran war catalyze increased terrorism in America?No In the long run, will this war be good or bad for the world? Good
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Jun 15, 2019 18:09
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Plutonis posted:New footage of the tanker incident 
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Jun 15, 2019 18:10
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Jun 15, 2019 18:11
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Raskolnikov38 posted:i'd like to thank you for being stupid enough to post somewhere i can do things like this, idiot lol his first probation in seven years
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Jun 15, 2019 18:12
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The united states probably will not invade and destroy iran conventionally Its natural resources and labor power are currently going unexploited by the us so they don't want to completely destroy all of its infrastructure, probably, maybe, which is why this latest round of bs has next to no support, even from the usual places
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Jun 15, 2019 18:13
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i say swears online posted:lol his first probation in seven years when ppl look back on what happened here today, it will be like the sole person who refused to sieg heil at the hitler rally
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Jun 15, 2019 18:16
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orange sky posted:https://twitter.com/BretStephensNYT/status/1139697815389519872?s=19 I’m from Belling Cat and I say kill em all!
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Jun 15, 2019 18:22
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did anyone here actually read the article? it said the us version is bs
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Jun 15, 2019 18:40
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:did anyone here actually read the article? it said the us version is bs its behind a paywall so its kind of a hassle
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Jun 15, 2019 18:41
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Brown Moses using his platform to tell millions (maybe just thousands) of nyt readers to be skeptical of US claims does seem like a unambiguously good thing tho
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Jun 15, 2019 18:43
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:did anyone here actually read the article? it said the us version is bs its a thousand words on how marinetraffic.com works with a couple of sentences at the end that amount to 
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Jun 15, 2019 18:44
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There has been considerable cynicism worldwide about American claims that the attacks on two oil tankers in the Gulf of Oman on Thursday were conducted by Iran. Iran has denied the accusation, and on Twitter, the term “Gulf of Tonkin” trended alongside the “Gulf of Oman.” That historical reference is telling. It was in citing the “Gulf of Tonkin incident” — the North Vietnamese were accused of attacking American destroyers in that gulf in 1964 — that President Lyndon B. Johnson persuaded the Congress to authorize greater American military involvement in Vietnam. Historians have concluded that the attack never happened and Johnson’s ploy is now seen as the quintessential false flag operation. With tensions rising in the region since attacks on four tankers off the United Arab Emirates in May, understanding what happened and who is to blame is crucial. Could the Gulf of Oman attack be the 21st century version of the Gulf of Tonkin incident? Thanks to the internet and the range of publicly available information, confirming or denying such an attack has become far easier since the 1960s. A distance of several thousand miles does not mean much today. Tools and information like satellite imagery that was once only available to intelligence agencies can now be found on everyday tools such as Google Maps. Social media allows far-flung people to share information. Online databases containing all kinds of information are now available to people anywhere. It is with these databases that we can start with our investigation into what happened in the Gulf of Oman. Initial reports named the attacked vessels as the Kokuka Courageous and Front Altair. But how can we be sure these names are accurate when we are thousands of miles away with no reporters nearby? Vessel tracking websites that collect transponder data from thousands of ships from fishing boats to cruise liners across the world in real time allow you to search for vessels and find their current location. Both the Kokuka Courageous and Front Altair could be found on the tracking website MarineTraffic, which showed both vessels at a standstill in the Gulf of Oman. MarineTraffic published the paths of both vessels through the gulf on its Twitter account. The reports of the attack were followed by images claiming to show damage to both vessels, including a major fire on the Front Altair. It was impossible to read the markings on the vessels in the images but users of the MarineTraffic website were able to help confirm that the ships matched the designs of the two vessels. That’s because MarineTraffic users photograph vessels and share the pictures on the website. Anyone can see them and verify if the vessel you are looking at is the one it is claimed to be. Similarly, the Sentinel Hub website publishes imagery taken by its satellites. Soon after the incident in the Gulf of Oman, an image became available showing the Front Altair on fire. With the incident confirmed, the next question was, what happened to the vessels? The United States Central Command gave one answer, publishing a statement that detailed the activity around the two vessels observed by American naval forces in the area. The statement included images of the Kokuka Courageous (my colleagues and I checked them against reference images of the ship to confirm the vessel’s identity) that showed a hole on one side of the ship, along with an object on the side of the hull that was described in the statement as a “likely limpet mine.” Along with the statement and image a video was published showing what was claimed to be an Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps Gashti class patrol boat removing the unexploded limpet mine from the hull of the Kokuka Courageous, the implication being it was Iran that placed the mine there and was recovering evidence of its involvement. Given the political import and the source of the statement, it is necessary to check the claims made. What can we actually see in the American evidence from the Gulf of Oman? Identical markings on the side of the Kokuka Courageous above the alleged limpet mine are visible in both the photographs of the vessel and in the video showing its apparent removal by the Gashti patrol boat. Photographs and video published by Iran’s Press TV network show the same type of patrol boats as part of a ceremony marking the delivery of such vessels to the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. Yet what the videos and photographs published by the United States don’t show us is more important. While the object on the side of the Kokuka Courageous is described as a “likely limpet mine” the images presented aren’t clear enough to verify that. Nothing presented as evidence proves that the object was placed there by the Iranians. The video shows only that the Iranians chose to remove it for an as yet unknown reason. This is especially important in light of a statement by Yukata Katada, the president of the operator of the Kokuka Courageous, that the crew had reported that the ship was attacked by a “flying object.” Mr. Katada added, “I do not think there was a time bomb or an object attached to the side of the ship.” While we cannot be sure whether this is a Gulf of Tonkin-style incident, we can say for certain this is not the slam-dunk evidence that some would like to claim it is. In the escalating conflict between the United States and Iran we have to work on all the information available, not just what one side presents.
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Jun 15, 2019 18:45
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:did anyone here actually read the article? it said the us version is bs It says nothing at all, except that there's no way to say the US version is or isn't bs. Basically a bunch of paragraphs that say "the place that they described exists on Google maps, and the ships exist too" followed by "ufortunately for the US government, the evidence isn't quite as conclusive as they claim"
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Jun 15, 2019 18:47
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a more honest article would point out how theres no loving motive for the iranians to do this but somebody else in the region sure does have a motive to frame iran
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Jun 15, 2019 18:49
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i hate brown moses for a kaleidoscope of other reasons relating to syria, i don’t really see any reason to give him some good faith hearing considering who funds him and what he’s done in the past
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Jun 15, 2019 18:50
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i read it as "the video doesn't actually show anything to support the claims" which is as close as someone in the NYT is going to come to "lol these claims are bs"
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Jun 15, 2019 18:51
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Nothing presented as evidence proves that the object was placed there by the Iranians. The video shows only that the Iranians chose to remove it for an as yet unknown reason. This has been plain to see all along. He adds nothing to the existing critique, and even though he has absolutely no reason to do anything but unequivocally condemn the US government, he backtracks his argument to "perhaps the truth is in the middle", which is going to be the only takeaway anybody will remember from this, like he's trying real hard to avoid upsetting anybody important.
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Jun 15, 2019 18:51
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Instant Sunrise posted:How long will it take to capture Tehran? 2 days We have to look at what those civilian casualties are- just because they're civilian doesn't make them innocent! Lets take a look at a few possibilities: 1) A civilian walking down the street to market gets killed by a cruise missile fired at the market. 2) A civilian asleep in their house is killed when their house is targetting by a smart bomb and blown up. OK, these two are regrettable innocents being killed- but since the US doesn't make a habit of targetting markets or houses, they're very small in number! 3) A civilian working at a chemical weapon factory gets killed when the chemical weapon plant is bombed. 4) A civilian security guard at a weapons depot is killed when the weapons explode. 5) A civilian contractor repairing a tank is killed by a MOAB dropped on the unit. 6) A civilian engineer is killed when the military command center he works at is destroyed. 7) A civilian delivering snackiecakes to the tehran bunker vending machines eats a 5,000lb bunker buster. etc, etc. The list goes on. My point is that there are a lot of civilians directly supporting the military that aren't exactly "innocent" and would be mire rightly counted among the military casualties than civilian. I'm a civilian and work for the US military, but I acknowledge I'm also a valid military target because of what I do. And I think the vast majority of civilian casualties in this campaign will not be innocent.
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Jun 15, 2019 18:55
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Raskolnikov38 posted:a more honest article would point out how theres no loving motive for the iranians to do this but somebody else in the region sure does have a motive to frame iran That's a good point, his approach is like one of those lovely politifact-like sites that are so bogged down with particularities that they don't see the forest for the trees in the things they claim to investigate...
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Jun 15, 2019 18:57
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steinrokkan posted:That's a good point, his approach is like one of those lovely politifact-like sites that are so bogged down with particularities that they don't see the forest for the trees in the things they claim to investigate... this is very true, but this sort of approach is useful in pushing your "sensible centrist" audience away from supporting another manufactured war
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Jun 15, 2019 19:02
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oh wait this is cspam
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Jun 15, 2019 19:08
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on a very fundamental level what he does and who pays him to do it, is not something to respect or earnestly engage with
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Jun 15, 2019 19:08
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the wikipedia gun man defenders have arrived
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Jun 15, 2019 19:09
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:this is very true, but this sort of approach is useful in pushing your "sensible centrist" audience away from supporting another manufactured war no sensible centrist will read to the last paragraph of that brick, they will get bogged down by "elliot higgens demonstrates how he used google" before they get to the bits mildly critical of the us story. they will instead read bret stephens's article right next to it, about how iran is a pirate nation and we should commit acts of war against them.
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Jun 15, 2019 19:09
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who will speak up for saudi dark money? who will stand for the US state department? only the bravest
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Jun 15, 2019 19:10
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Brown Moses posted:Seeing you all appear to think my opinion on this incident is so important you can go read it in the New York Times: Lmao
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Jun 15, 2019 19:13
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:that's right you little fucker!!!
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Jun 15, 2019 19:19
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lol this thread is amazing
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Jun 15, 2019 19:31
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quote:C-SPAM: Unintelligible Garbage for Insane People
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Jun 15, 2019 20:05
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Raskolnikov38 posted:a more honest article would point out how theres no loving motive for the iranians to do this but somebody else in the region sure does have a motive to frame iran a more honest article would Open Source Investigate that the video released showed damage to starboard when every eyewitness account said the hit was to port
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Jun 15, 2019 20:05
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