|
Would it have been better or worse had they revealed this tidbit of news alongside the reveal of Sword and Shield back in February?
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 22:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:31 |
|
|
Why the gently caress are people continuing to lecture this thread about sending devs death threats and poo poo. Nobody here is doing that, christ.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 22:22
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Why the gently caress are people continuing to lecture this thread about sending devs death threats and poo poo. Nobody here is doing that, christ. Only person I saw even mention that in the last couple pages was... me, and I specifically said it wasn't directed at anyone in the thread. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 22:29
|
|
|
the important thing is that this has given us the five minute pokemon modeling meme https://twitter.com/deb_lal_/status/1139979096073658370
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 22:30
|
|
|
ArmyOfMidgets posted:https://www.siliconera.com/2019/06/16/game-freak-says-it-will-be-hard-for-all-pokemon-to-appear-even-in-games-after-pokemon-sword-shield/ I really wish he'd clarify what they mean by "balancing' given they've changed maybe 4 movesets since gen 4, or maybe show the difference between an XY model & a new model if they're determined to re-do them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 22:41
|
|
|
ArmyOfMidgets posted:https://www.siliconera.com/2019/06/16/game-freak-says-it-will-be-hard-for-all-pokemon-to-appear-even-in-games-after-pokemon-sword-shield/ "Regarding whether Pokemon may be added in future updates, this is currently uncertain. However, even if not in Pokemon Sword & Shield, Game Freak plans on making those Pokemon shine in future titles going forward, via Pokemon Home. They do not want the players’ past Pokemon to feel worthless." This is the last thing I needed to hear to be fully on board. I wish they had said this earlier, but I now honestly have no complaints.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 22:46
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Why the gently caress are people continuing to lecture this thread about sending devs death threats and poo poo. Nobody here is doing that, christ. Except the one a few pages back that said that the devs being thrown off the top of a building was too good for them, thankfully they spared us their Gamefreak torture fantasy.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 22:57
|
|
|
Crosspeice posted:While 5 more months of discussion sounds awful, so long as you guys don't vote the thread 1, I don't really care, best to get it all out of your systems so we can forget about it when the next new batch of mons get revealed. im gonna vote it 1 just because it matters to you
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:01
|
|
|
Making video games is difficult and expensive. But they've said it's not forever, so that's closure enough for me.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:02
|
|
|
ArmyOfMidgets posted:https://www.siliconera.com/2019/06/16/game-freak-says-it-will-be-hard-for-all-pokemon-to-appear-even-in-games-after-pokemon-sword-shield/ quote:According to Ohmori, even in Pokemon Sun & Moon, bringing in every Pokemon was something barely manageable, and with Pokemon Sword & Shield and the need to redo models, and so they had to make a decision. so what the gently caress was the point of them making models all the way back with X/Y that were too detailed to even be put in the game without being downscaled? People assumed they were future-proofing, but apparently they're redoing all the models *again* anyways. And even if those models are below the graphical quality of the new ones, why not just reuuse them for the Pokemon that won't appear in the maingame? It'd be better to have them look a bit worse than not have them be there at all. This just reeks of poor planning. Bongo Bill posted:Making video games is difficult and expensive. But they've said it's not forever, so that's closure enough for me. Given Pokemon is one of the most profitable franchises I really think we should be holding them to a higher standard than this. It'd be one thing if SS looked amazing but it doesn't. I'm not buying them needing to sacrifice Pokemon for graphics when wingulls are aggressively t-posing towards you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:04
|
|
|
Blaziken386 posted:this is such a loving gamefreak thing There was a nearly eternal conversation on Smogon about Gothitelle with Shadow Tag, and parts of the competitive scene seem to explode every time TPC allows a Legendary in your party at tournaments. There's probably a ton of internal discussion about game balance, and I think now is probably the best time to start the game equivalent of the TCG seasonal rotation.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:06
|
|
|
Takoluka posted:There was a nearly eternal conversation on Smogon about Gothitelle with Shadow Tag, and parts of the competitive scene seem to explode every time TPC allows a Legendary in your party at tournaments. There's probably a ton of internal discussion about game balance, and I think now is probably the best time to start the game equivalent of the TCG seasonal rotation.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:07
|
|
|
Gamefreak talking about balance is always the biggest joke imaginable.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:10
|
|
|
Blaziken386 posted:they already did that back in gen 6 with "only pokemon with the kalos sticker on their name are allowed in" well, they're doing it again, and you're dropping $60
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:11
|
|
|
Blaziken386 posted:they already did that back in gen 6 with "only pokemon with the kalos sticker on their name are allowed in" Yeah. Every tournament can already set what pokemon can and cannot enter; the presence of a pokemon in the game itself has no bearing on that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:11
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:so what the gently caress was the point of them making models all the way back with X/Y that were too detailed to even be put in the game without being downscaled? People assumed they were future-proofing, but apparently they're redoing all the models *again* anyways. And even if those models are below the graphical quality of the new ones, why not just reuuse them for the Pokemon that won't appear in the maingame? It'd be better to have them look a bit worse than not have them be there at all. Future-proofing is tricky because no one has any idea where technology will go. Back in 2012-2013, Game Freak probably figured that Nintendo would have a Wii U successor and a 3DS successor but didn't anticipate that they would both be succeeded by the same system. I'm not a programmer or a graphic designer, but I'm guessing that re-using the 3DS models wouldn't look right on a console, and people are already complaining that the graphics look bad anyway. They look fine by 3DS standards but poor by Switch standards.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:12
|
|
|
Zuzie posted:Future-proofing is tricky because no one has any idea where technology will go. Game Freak probably figured that Nintendo would have a Wii U successor and a 3DS successor but didn't anticipate that they would both be succeeded by the same system. I'm not a programmer or a graphic designer, but I'm guessing that re-using the 3DS models wouldn't look right on a console, and people are already complaining that the graphics look bad anyway. They look fine by 3DS standards but poor by Switch standards. They had to assume that the 3DS successor, even if it was a dedicated handheld, would have HD graphics.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:16
|
|
|
We'll each have to come to terms with this disappointment in our own ways.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:19
|
|
|
You still have to make new models, and adjust old models, and do a ton of other things. It's not a matter of copy pasting an existing resource into a new engine and calling it a day. You can plan for every possible eventuality and still have a ton of work to do. The fact people keep saying stuff like this and harping on things like the tree model or the use of pre-existing animations show none of them have any real knowledge of how game development works. Even what people are saying about balance shows the narrow scope and lack of understanding; what Pokemon show up where, who gets what new moves, what new TMs to include, and move tutors can have a huge influence on not just the meta game, but also the balance of an in-game journey. That still comes with the prerequisite of a massive amount of thought being put into it, even if it doesn't add up much to evening things out in our end - and even then, each generation has come with massive influence on the meta-game, from the change in just how weather dominates from Gen 5 to 6, so you can't say GF hasn't done it whatsoever. Just because Landorus-T doesn't want to go away doesn't mean there haven't been massive changes across multiple tiers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:20
|
|
|
So it looks like each new game will have a different list of "banned" Pokemon, kinda like a new season of a card game. EDIT: Internet Kraken posted:Why the gently caress are people continuing to lecture this thread about sending devs death threats and poo poo. Nobody here is doing that, christ. Not here they aren't, but don't underestimate the depravity of crazed fans.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:27
|
|
|
Nodosaur posted:You still have to make new models, and adjust old models, and do a ton of other things. It's not a matter of copy pasting an existing resource into a new engine and calling it a day. You can plan for every possible eventuality and still have a ton of work to do. Hire contractors
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:27
|
|
|
AlBorlantern Corps posted:Hire contractors Whoa now, are you suggesting that a multibillion dollar corporation actually hire more employees to help with one of their biggest games???
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:31
|
|
|
Even if throwing more workers at the game was a solution for this, that ship has sailed. They probably wouldn't be able to meet the November release date at this point if they decided to put every Pokemon in the game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:33
|
|
|
AlBorlantern Corps posted:Hire contractors You're missing the point. None of these things are bandaids, whether it's "they should have planned" or "they should do this instead". This is still a massive amount of work no other series in this game's genre has to deal with; hell, it's ridiculously uncommon for video games as a whole. The only reason this is seen as something that would take a minimal effort or something that you can just throw money or personnel at and everything will be fine is because people have pushed this asinine rhetoric that GF is uncommonly lazy or incompetent that's existed since Gen 1; which ignores the fact that all those "glitches" and problems were the result of necessary and intentional shortcuts made to get what was at the time a huge and insanely complicated game running to begin with. And it comes up again and again with the issue of "dropped features" and reused elements which, frankly, every franchise has had to endure (because in the end those features were superfluous). Let's not even go into how there was a demand on visuals and 3D effects in the 3DS era, despite the 3DS (as much as I love it) being a very complicated system to develop for even for the company that made the drat thing. But this persists because everyone has in their head that their demands are easy because "technology has improved". When technology "improves", you don't necessarily get everything bigger and better. You lose things. As much as Breath of the Wild flipped the script on what Zelda is, it took a hit on enemy variety and other systems that people had come to take for granted. Sometimes, you run into a point where, even for something that's been treated like a selling point before, your franchise is bursting at the seams and you have no choice but to make different choices. There are going to be 1000 of these drat things. 1000 playable characters. In a genre - nay, an [i]industry[i] - where exceeding 50 is considered unusual. I don't understand why appreciation of this fact is so hard for people to grasp.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:36
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Whoa now, are you suggesting that a multibillion dollar corporation actually hire more employees to help with one of their biggest games??? Maybe. If they are sticking to design spec and using similar animations just with different shaders and higher resolution textures, that's kind of monotonous repetitive work you should be able to farm out to a firm.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:36
|
|
|
Nodosaur posted:You're missing the point. None of these things are bandaids, whether it's "they should have planned" or "they should do this instead". This is still a massive amount of work no other series in this game's genre has to deal with; hell, it's ridiculously uncommon for video games as a whole. Actually "hire contractors" is a very good solution for a massive amount of work
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:37
|
|
|
RatHat posted:So it looks like each new game will have a different list of "banned" Pokemon, kinda like a new season of a card game. Yeah this seems 100% fine to me. Home may keep Stantler hostage for a couple of games, but one day he will taste freedom...
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:38
|
|
|
Nodosaur posted:no other series in this game's genre no other series in this game's genre is nearly as popular or makes nearly as much revenue. this is the biggest one, in a class of its own, among all media franchises in the world. I don't get trying to compare this to digimon over and over like that's a legitimate critique of people's expectations (which Game Freak recently said they appreciated and wanted to honor with Home)
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:38
|
|
|
I mean the interview also mentions that they’re not putting in every Pokemon because of balance or making the new guys feel unique. It sounds a bit like an excuse to me but no amount of contractors or extra workers are going to help if they don’t want every Pokemon to be in the game, and it seems like the don’t.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:38
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:no amount of contractors or extra workers are going to help if they don’t want every Pokemon to be in the game, and it seems like the don’t. this is the feeling I get too. they could totally do it if they wanted, but they don't want to, just like they don't want to include mega evos or z-crystals. it seems like they're just going through the motions by putting out a game at all (which may totally be the case if Nintendo is pressuring them)
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:40
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:making the new guys feel unique. the only new mon that's unique so far is Impidimp
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:41
|
|
|
indigi posted:no other series in this game's genre is nearly as popular or makes nearly as much revenue. this is the biggest one, in a class of its own, among all media franchises in the world. I don't get trying to compare this to digimon over and over like that's a legitimate critique of people's expectations (which Game Freak recently said they appreciated and wanted to honor with Home) Because money isn't a bandaid. Popularity and funding doesn't change the laws of physics or work hours. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not this imbalances the in game quest with excess of options. The thing about expectations and comparisons to other franchises is that we blew past the "standard" for "less popular works" a long time ago. Now we're several times past that mark. This doesn't strike you as highly unusual??? Or at least enormously, monolithicly strange?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:42
|
|
|
Some of this flak could be somewhat avoided if they explain / further reveal exactly just how much you can do with Pokemon in Pokemon Home. So if they want to switch to regional only dexes that rotate while home acts a hub where you can still do stuff and store all of them then yeah go for it. Does this also mean that the non-new pokemon that do make it to Galar will NOT be in the next game to let those skipped show up? Will Charizard be in every loving game forever?
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:43
|
|
|
Actually the number of workers DOES change the number of work hours.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:43
|
|
|
Happy Noodle Boy posted:Some of this flak could be somewhat avoided if they explain / further reveal exactly just how much you can do with Pokemon in Pokemon Home. So if they want to switch to regional only dexes that rotate while home acts a hub where you can still do stuff and store all of them then yeah go for it. Does this also mean that the non-new pokemon that do make it to Galar will NOT be in the next game to let those skipped show up? Will Charizard be in every loving game forever? Home is still in development. They're not going to break the cycle of reveals and news promotion just to quiet some backlash. I don't really see why they should be expected to; no company talks about all the features of their product immediately. AlBorlantern Corps posted:Actually the number of workers DOES change the number of work hours. There's still just as many of them, they just overlap. And even then, does that fit their budget? Who controls their budget, GF, or TPC, the publisher? Does this fit their company culture? Lots of companies with contractors and large numbers of employees push themselves towards crunch. Is that a priority to either of the people involved? Hey, what do you know, I just introduced a bunch more variables. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jun 17, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:44
|
|
|
Nodosaur posted:Home is still in development. They're not going to break the cycle of reveals and news promotion just to quiet some backlash. I don't really see why they should be expected to; no company talks about all the features of their product immediately. Right I’m not saying they should. I just feel like knowing more about Home could have softened the blow.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:45
|
|
|
I kinda think that all of this discussion is academic until we can actually play the game. Right now we're guessing based mostly on our own prejudices and emotions. The game is being rushed, they're dumb, they're telling the truth, etc, are all possibilities. But when we get the game in our hands and can actually experience it we can start making some more informed guesses. Like, maybe the game really will be better balanced than previous entries. Maybe there'll be something that was clearly supposed to be in the game but isn't and you can tell from vestigial traces of it. Maybe it'll be just like all previous Pokemon games. But until we play it, we can't know. So I suggest that we table all discussion of this topic until November 15th, and spend the next five months arguing about which bird Pokemon is the best
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
Nodosaur posted:Because money isn't a bandaid. Popularity and funding doesn't change the laws of physics or work hours. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not this imbalances the in game quest with excess of options. You hire more workers to make the models. This is not loving rocket science and anyone could of planned this years ago if they wanted to. Despite your loud insistence that nobody understands game development other than you, you're choosing to ignore common sense in favor of defending the multibillion dollar corporation that is well-known for cutting corners in the past and making asinine decisions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
Nodosaur posted:Because money isn't a bandaid. Popularity and funding doesn't change the laws of physics or work hours. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not this imbalances the in game quest with excess of options. it totally does, but that's why it's nearly as strange that they're yanking out three big features/mechanics all at once during the transition to a new platform. it's figuratively whiplash inducing
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:31 |
|
|
Nodosaur posted:Home is still in development. They're not going to break the cycle of reveals and news promotion just to quiet some backlash. I don't really see why they should be expected to; no company talks about all the features of their product immediately. Hiring contractors is in fact exactly what Nintendo claims to do to AVOID crunch, according to Reggie Fils-Aime
|
|
#
?
Jun 17, 2019 23:48
|
|