Pokemon Megathread: I have very strong feelings about pokemons

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Funky Valentine: Feb 26, 2014; Dojyaa~an

Turns out they made 500 more Unown variants and that's why Qwilfish has been fired from Pokemon.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:10

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 19:56

MorningMoon: Dec 29, 2013; He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?

At least we all agree that the games have gone downhill since gen 5.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:12

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

At least we all agree that the games have gone downhill since gen 5.

Gen VII was better than V in literally every way. Gen VI was also better in some ways.

Gen V had some astoundingly idiotic decisions and design flaws.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:14

Farecoal: Oct 15, 2011; There he go

Zore posted:

Gen V had some astoundingly idiotic decisions and design flaws.

Like what?

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:17

Treebeh: Sep 20, 2010; we never say anything unless it is worth taking a long time to say.

Funky Valentine posted:

Delibird is the most decorated Pokemon, do not mock his power.

Christ, I'm glad someone did this so I never have to.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:21

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Way too many extraneous legendaries, loving up the level curve so that it still has 8/10 of the Pokemon with highest required levels to evolve which makes many of them almost impossible to use in game, horrible pacing on Pokemon variety for the first two gyms and locking almost a full quarter of the Dex to post gym 7, the start of locking normal rear end pokemon like Zorua behind events, the start of locking TMs behind events, and the really poorly implemented seasons gimmick. Also loving N. Just literally everything about N.

You know its bad when your revised 3rd version has to throw in half a dozen Pokemon at literally half they level they normally evolve at to let people actually use them.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:23

Funky Valentine: Feb 26, 2014; Dojyaa~an

Farecoal posted:

Like what?

Look at the levels everything in Gen V evolves at.

They'd just introduced a new exp system and Audinos were common as poo poo experience pinatas, but a Gen V Pokemon will almost always reach it's last stage quite a bit after Pokemon from the other Gens.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:24

Farecoal: Oct 15, 2011; There he go

Zore posted:

Way too many extraneous legendaries, loving up the level curve so that it still has 8/10 of the Pokemon with highest required levels to evolve which makes many of them almost impossible to use in game, horrible pacing on Pokemon variety for the first two gyms and locking almost a full quarter of the Dex to post gym 7, the start of locking normal rear end pokemon like Zorua behind events, the start of locking TMs behind events, and the really poorly implemented seasons gimmick. Also loving N. Just literally everything about N.

I recently finished Black and then Black 2, I noticed almost none of this, and N was fine.

I mean I guess the leveling curve was slightly annoying but it's still not hard or anywhere near as hosed as HeartGold was

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:28

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Like you know how you can get Rufflet and Noibat early in Gen 6/7? Using them is absolutely miserable because they're rocking stats roughly equivalent to loving Bulbasaur and Pichu respectively until they evolve at 54 or 48, which is like right as you're challenging the E4. Which is also later than almost every fuckin Pseudo Legendary.

Even poo poo like Vanillite doesn't fully evolve until the late 40's. Its insane.

Farecoal posted:

I recently finished Black and then Black 2, I noticed almost none of this, and N was fine.

I mean I guess the leveling curve was slightly annoying but it's still not hard or anywhere near as hosed as HeartGold was

Its a knock on effect where there are a few Pokemon that are absurdly powerful and evolve at normal levels like the Starters, Excadrill etc. Then everything else is weak garbage you roll over until they evolve into mediocre mons super late or loving don't even evolve until you're done with the postgame (Volcarona, Hydreigon). Try using either of them.

Zore fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Jun 18, 2019

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:28

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Zore posted:

Gen VII was better than V in literally every way.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:29

Farecoal: Oct 15, 2011; There he go

Also, the seasons were cool?

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:30

Dienes: Nov 4, 2009; dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot; College Slice

Vinylshadow posted:

If you have to trade a pokemon to get it into your game, then it's not in your game,

If it's not a pokemon you can encounter in the wild, then it's not in your game

/logic

Then porygon is not in any of the mainline games!

My logical friend, if I trade a pokemon into my game, where is that pokemon?

My game. The pokemon is now in my game.

This isn't going to make me boycott the game, but I definitely don't think I'll enjoy it as much as I would otherwise. There's going to be a completionist itch in my brain I won't be able to scratch.

Besides, there's pokemon I've spent time breeding/leveling that I will want to use and don't want to go through all that again, or not be able to use my favorites. Although I'm relieved Serebii thinks Noivern will be there.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:33

Gripweed: Nov 8, 2018; Women are wonderful animals, they should be making music and writing novels about having a complex relationship with your mother.

Z Moves seem way better than Mega Evolutions

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:36

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Farecoal posted:

Also, the seasons were cool?

And worthless as a gimmick. They didn't even do anything fun like let you catch ice Pokemon early, it was entirely wasted and then dropped. Like most Gamefreak ideas.

Like I sure am glad its winter which changes what my Sawsbuck looks like and if I can get a single vendor trash item on route 132 :effort:

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:37

qnqnx: Nov 14, 2010

Zore posted:

Way too many extraneous legendaries, loving up the level curve so that it still has 8/10 of the Pokemon with highest required levels to evolve which makes many of them almost impossible to use in game, horrible pacing on Pokemon variety for the first two gyms and locking almost a full quarter of the Dex to post gym 7, the start of locking normal rear end pokemon like Zorua behind events, the start of locking TMs behind events, and the really poorly implemented seasons gimmick. Also loving N. Just literally everything about N.

You know its bad when your revised 3rd version has to throw in half a dozen Pokemon at literally half they level they normally evolve at to let people actually use them.

Actually, it is the level curve in V that is good and it only got hosed afterwards because of gen 6/7 having a shallower curve and never readjusting gen 5 pokemon.
Also seasons were good, and only Snarl was locked behind an event, as far as I remember.

In a better timeline, games after B2/W2 would have continued with the "style" of gen 5.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:38

Ometeotl: Feb 13, 2012; It's MISSEL! Or SISSLE!
I confused myself...

oddium posted:

at least 100 for gen 8, nice

Nah Serebii says we're at 979 not counting Unown, Arceus or Silvally forms

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:41

Farecoal: Oct 15, 2011; There he go

Zore posted:

And worthless as a gimmick. They didn't even do anything fun like let you catch ice Pokemon early, it was entirely wasted and then dropped. Like most Gamefreak ideas.

They were cool visually

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:41

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

qnqnx posted:

Actually, it is the level curve in V that is good and it only got hosed afterwards because of gen 6/7 having a shallower curve and never readjusting gen 5 pokemon.
Also seasons were good, and only Snarl was locked behind an event, as far as I remember.

In a better timeline, games after B2/W2 would have continued with the "style" of gen 5.

Making two dozen Pokemon lines that are incredibly weak until they evolve in the late game sucks. It sucked even in B/W because it means you can't actually have a Pawniard or Deino on your team because they loving suck until they evolve literally at the Elite 4. Trying to use any of the coolest Pokemon is a goddamn fools errand and that is the worst indictment of a Pokemon game that can exist.

Magikarp is only tolerable when its a Magikarp for a small portion of the game, not when you have to baby it for 8+ gyms. Especially when the Gyarados isn't even particularly strong!

Zore fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jun 18, 2019

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:41

RatHat: Dec 31, 2007; A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!

Zore posted:

Way too many extraneous legendaries, loving up the level curve so that it still has 8/10 of the Pokemon with highest required levels to evolve which makes many of them almost impossible to use in game, horrible pacing on Pokemon variety for the first two gyms and locking almost a full quarter of the Dex to post gym 7, the start of locking normal rear end pokemon like Zorua behind events, the start of locking TMs behind events, and the really poorly implemented seasons gimmick. Also loving N. Just literally everything about N.

You know its bad when your revised 3rd version has to throw in half a dozen Pokemon at literally half they level they normally evolve at to let people actually use them.

The start of locking TMs behind events? Isn�t Snarl in B/W literally the only event exclusive TM?

And Gen 5 has the same amount of legendaries as Gen 4.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:44

MorningMoon: Dec 29, 2013; He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

Hit the credits again and beat Cynthia. Pokemon White is concluded.

It is the best game in the series. I want to say "gently caress, we gotta go back!" but we can't. We can get a game as good, sure, but we can't make Gen 5 again, a lot of elements are just locked in its time due to the franchise's continuous growth.

-The very first thing that struck with me when I started playing, something that ended up true for the entire game is the level design. The games are designed in one simple, but very strong philosophy: the critical path should be short, and a lot of content lies away from it.
Its early examples are pretty good, you can get the elemental monkey you need if you explore. Normal gym has fighting types near it just off the fence of the following route, and if you manage to miss that, the next story bit makes you take the side-path of a short, straight line forest. This design continues in almost every route, and I feel it is brought back to a near-poetic end in Plasma Castle, where you can just walk three straight lines and face the endgame... or you can go into each room and learn about the science of Plasma, how some members feel, how they view N, N's room, etc.
This design is the most fitting for Pokemon. Routes that newcomers can defeat without too much pressure, but also with large areas to reward exploration and curiosity. If you're stuck with a gym leader on the first half of the game, exploration will end up solving that.
The Swords of Justice also live by this concept, and it's great. They offer a good reflection to N, and they're so optional that this, my fourth playthrough, was the first time I actually looked for them.

-Items are also really tame. You're not finding nothing overly strong, not even leftovers, until beating the story. But you don't need them, you don't have, say, Dusclops or Togepi or Honhedge that are begging you for the evolution item that isn't anywhere to be found. I feel like you are given the exact amount of power you need for the story, and end up finding fairly useful stuff all over.

-The NPCs are really fun! Lots of nice folk that are just neat. The NY aspect making you see tons of foreigners is fun, and then there's some towns with full-on weirdos, like that post-game beach town that is only a family of rich goons. Or the bridge with people who love the bridge and bridge sandwiches, and a lady that lives with five loving patrats and runs over to the other bridge when you talk to her to host a patrat show. And then the couple that moves into her house wonders why it smells of patrat.
There's a ton of stuff they do that makes the world feel alive. Nimbasa city specially, with its stadiums, and ferris wheel, and fashion show, it's a wonderful city.

-The art design is stellar. For a sprite game from 2010 or so, it's really nice, dynamic, colorful, some pokemon have a ton of attitude. The cities are all distinct. The amount of trainer classes feels really vast compared to other entries.

-Pokemon Roster is great. There's always a surprise with all these new 'mons, the distribution means you can find a new invaluable friend right around the corner. Some are essentially repeats, sure, but so many others have a ton of charm and attitude. Darmanitan, Golurk, literally all the bugs, Bisharp, Throh and Sawk, Excadrill, Scraggy, ah, just a ton of pokemon that are fun and sweet. Really gives a sense of discovery, fueled by the level design. Their late evolving levels means you can get pokemon pretty late and still become attached by seeing them Grow under you, rather htan just being a fully evolved thing that may fit your team.

-Battles are pretty good. The olde exp share system is really different; just going from gym to gym, whatever got to flex hard on one gym ends up taking a rest for a while and others catch up without it going ahead. Levels stay relatively low for a long while, and it's kinda fun. Rivals pop up at a good pace, they feel stronger each time and there's a couple of times they caught me offguard and made me worry my team was still beat up and not ready.

-The only negatives I think of is that the sixth gym's city, all the way up 'till defeating gym 7, is a chore. The gyms are pretty tame with the puzzle, the seventh one has such a limited roster you fight three ice cream trainers in a row, N and Cheren get involved but don't really do anything different from last time, both gyms are around "go to a tower, climb it, cutscene on top" and it's just a boring hour or two past the middle of the game.
The roster is also limiting; part of what makes that stretch of the game bad is that there's, maybe 4? pokemon to catch, none particularly useful for the flying or ice gym, but it shows up from time to time before that, just going to a route, seeing two pokemon and that's pretty much it. It works for the most part, but after seeing what a regional dex can do with 400ish 'mons, it can be disheartening.

-Story, ohhh man, here we go:
The story truly is deconstructed from its most basic premise. We all know about the "pokemon battles are cockfights, and cruel." part, but lets skip that for now: the eight gyms and elite 4 part is also put under contempt from the start. Every adult basically talks about it like going through summer camp. Just something you do as a kid. You can finish the pokedex, but outside of a feeling of "that's neat!" nobody seems to give a gently caress about it. Gym leaders are so much more than gym leaders. Everyone enforces a feeling of "it's the journey, not the destination" because it's all meaningless... it's an excuse for trainers to explore the land and find themselves.

Then we go over to peta, and... I like the answer people end up with. Most trainers are not like that, most people simply have a partner pokemon, most trainers aren't all about battle, and those with the experience of living battles more than others simply come to conclusions of how to improve life with pokemon, of listening more to pokemon. The Plasma spiel is lies, but gym leaders do take it and come to their own conclusions on how to improve when they are challenged like this. Communication and community are a huge part of the story.

Gym Leaders, god I love them so much. They are community leaders, they serve their cities and town, they run an important part of it (library, restaurant, airport, mine, etc) and they fight to protect the city itself against Plasma. They actively foil the evil team!!! They give lessons to the kids doing the challenge. They're great. In contrast, the Elite 4 are secluded to the northest point of the map, they really only talk about how good battles are, and do nothing even when the league is in danger. The gym leader is the part of the community, while the elite 4 is above it... and thus doesn't offer anything useful.

Cheren and Bianca. Cheren is much like the you who first played pokemon. Wants to be the best, doesn't question what's going on, just gotta be the strongest and catch them all. Meanwhile, Bianca is more about finding out what IS the region she's in, which of the side things are really fun. She immediately knows that the journey is something your parents asked of Juniper so you could go out in the world. She looks for purpose. They both find themselves during this whole adventure, and it's great seeing characters you could easily have played as during your time in the franchise.

Plasma is a great team. The grunts are a surprising mix of good-natured goons and just hooligans. Gives credence that this is a fairly large organization when there's so many different people. Then the upper staff of the six sages who offer wisdom to Ghetsis, in exchange for different things, different points of views on all sides. Ghetsis is an evil jerk, I love him, he's always just Barely keeping his evil laughter in check... and somehow that's the most convincing a villain has been in this whole IP (why does NO villain even attempt at hiding being evil????)

N... ahh, so many good things. Y'all know he's good. I love that you are the first step on his own journey and he grows alongside you, Cheren and Bianca. By seeing the world and other POVs, he can overcome the evil nurturing Ghetsis had done his whole life. Him only using pokemon from the areas he fights you in and then letting them go is great. The first time it happens is an amazing shock because if you are Ready for gym 2, you'll have a fighting type in the lead, and he'll come at you with the pidove. The pursuit of truth and dreams is the best "both sides are right" thing.

N thus looks into the future, meanwhile the Swords of Justice are stuck in the past. Yet it is you, living in the present that changes both of their minds and lets them interact with the world that is. Alder is similar, stuck in the pain of losing his partner. For all his talk about wandering and helping, he isn't as open to new ideas as the leaders, other adults dunk on him for not being present, and when you get to the post-game... a lot of trainers seem to be strong enough to be champs. And the dialogue between some E4 imply that the E4 does lose fairly often to challengers. Alder grew during the game. Never the sage he pretended to be.

All leads to a journey where characters have storylines, emotional beats, everyone has something fairly meaningful to say. Because the story is about seeing others' points of views and growing thanks to that. About community coming together. Issues are solved in a team, not just by you getting a legnedary and kicking rear end. Heck, I said no to Zekrom and finished the game without him and it owned.

Post-game is great, battling Cynthia after becoming champ was a very good sendoff. Pokemon White is my favorite game and I hope this post isn't so huge it can't even post gently caress i gotta go to work

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:47

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

RatHat posted:

The start of locking TMs behind events? Isn’t Snarl in B/W literally the only event exclusive TM?

And Gen 5 has the same amount of legendaries as Gen 4.

Yeah, and locking any TMs is incredibly lovely.

It was also bad in Gen 4, but we were only talking about the games post Gen 5. Plus Gen 4 had a larger National Pokedex so the legendaries took up comparatively less of it wheras they're a huge portion of Unova.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:49

Araxxor: Oct 20, 2012; My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Event exclusive TMs was a terrible idea, especially after Gen V changed them to be infinite use, and I'm glad that got kicked down as a one game occurrence. It's already bad enough with Pokemon.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:52

Gripweed: Nov 8, 2018; Women are wonderful animals, they should be making music and writing novels about having a complex relationship with your mother.

It's weird that you have to do a henshin dance before Z moves but not Mega Evolving

# ? Jun 18, 2019 01:54

Houle: Oct 21, 2010

Unless a Pokemon is super unique a lot of the attack animations would be manipulating the skeleton, no? As such a lot of Pokemon would simply share skeletons with different window dressings. Group all the similar skeletons together and map the appropriate animations to them. Then that data is simply accessed through a common method rather than rewritten over and over. I'm no animation expert though.

I mean if you can map captain falcon to Pikachu in smash you can map a Pidgey to the rest of the normal/flying types. *

If balance really was an issue it would simply be gated until post game. Can easily have some game related reason that the whole island or whatever is under quarantine due to the mega-mon. When the issue is solved the borders open up as well as international Pokemon trade routes.

The only unique and time consuming element I can think of, admittedly, are Pokemon with unique gait or movement that would put on modifiers on the movement. Archeops come to mind. That being said I suppose a subroutine which would modify movement speed, angle, span etc on the animation similar to the Tony Hawk special move creation tool from Underground.

Now I want to see a Pokemon x Tony Hawk game.

* I'm talking out of my rear end.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:00

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

At least we all agree that the games have gone downhill since gen 5.

Gen V and Gen VII were both fantastic,
Gen VI was good mechanically, and was only really let down by the characters/difficulty

Most of the complaints people have about Gen 5 (ie: the evolution levels being hosed) are about Gen 5 pokemon in other games. Should they have maybe been a bit more forward thinking with things like Noibat? Oh yeah. Are they bad in their debut game? No. There are a couple outliers, like Hydreigon, but overall, it's fine

Now, if the wild pokemon levels were HGSS levels of stupid, where you've got level 12 wild mons next to level 40 trainers, a lot would really suck. But they don't.

Zore posted:

Yeah, and locking any TMs is incredibly lovely.

It was also bad in Gen 4, but we were only talking about the games post Gen 5. Plus Gen 4 had a larger National Pokedex so the legendaries took up comparatively less of it wheras they're a huge portion of Unova.

While the TM for snarl being locked behind a Gen 4 event that you had to transfer into gen 5 was dumb, we can all agree that there's no reason to teach snarl to your pokemon anyways

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:02

qnqnx: Nov 14, 2010

Zore posted:

Making two dozen Pokemon lines that are incredibly weak until they evolve in the late game sucks. It sucked even in B/W because it means you can't actually have a Pawniard or Deino on your team because they loving suck until they evolve literally at the Elite 4. Trying to use any of the coolest Pokemon is a goddamn fools errand and that is the worst indictment of a Pokemon game that can exist.

Magikarp is only tolerable when its a Magikarp for a small portion of the game, not when you have to baby it for 8+ gyms. Especially when the Gyarados isn't even particularly strong!

Two lines is not nearly two dozen.

Zore posted:

Yeah, and locking any TMs is incredibly lovely.

It was also bad in Gen 4, but we were only talking about the games post Gen 5. Plus Gen 4 had a larger National Pokedex so the legendaries took up comparatively less of it wheras they're a huge portion of Unova.

They are a huge portion of Unova because they are a huge part of the plot. Only one more legendary that is plot relevant comparing B2/W2 to D/P/Pt and then there's the weather trio that was relevant for the Dream Radar, even if admittedly tacked on.
Honestly, I don't understand this "too many legendaries" complaint, it is only an issue when they became getting handed out like candy instead of through events, or cases like Zeraora where it should have not be a legendary or mythical at all.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:04

Blaze Dragon: Aug 28, 2013; LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

At least we all agree that the games have gone downhill since gen 5.

BW are my favourite games and that's unlikely to change but SM are easily my second favourite so I can't agree. XY were okay, definitely not as good as either because they were very much play-by-numbers Pokemon games that took no real risks and had some really weird ideas to them (I don't need four "friends" that add absolutely nothing to the game, Game Freak) and even there they're still far better games than GSC with their non-existent level curve and horrible Pokemon placement or DP with...being DP, in general (Platinum > XY though).

"We all agree" is a really dangerous phrase to use with the Pokemon fandom that will never agree on anything. Like, look hard enough and you'll find someone that liked HMs. That's how bad the disagreements can get! People can be objectively wrong!

Gripweed posted:

It's weird that you have to do a henshin dance before Z moves but not Mega Evolving

According to the anime, you have to recite a phrase before Mega Evolving (sometimes just "Surpass evolution, Mega Evolve!" but other times longer phrases, waxing poetically about how the Key Stone is connecting their hearts and whatnot) so it makes complete sense that the next step would be a cool dance.

Dynamaxing should just send the game into several minutes of stock footage that rarely takes into account the actual background or the clothes you're wearing, as your character goes into long "In the name of the Moon!"-style speeches with grandiose posing and lots and lots of explosions.

Houle posted:

I mean if you can map captain falcon to Pikachu in smash you can map a Pidgey to the rest of the normal/flying types. *

While I'm a gigantic fan of this kind of thing because it's hilarious, mapping Captain Falcon to Pikachu causes severe animation glitches. You probably don't want that as a professional game.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:07

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

qnqnx posted:

Two lines is not nearly two dozen.

Hydreigon
Volcarona
Briavary
Vanilluxe
Meinshao
Bisharp
Noivern
Klinklang
Beeheyem
Lampent
Golurk
Tynamo
Frillish
Ferroseee
Gothorita
Solosis

Are the ones I'm specifically talking about. Some of them do evolve after 6 gyms, but thats uh still a huge amount of time to be dragging along a Pokemon on par with a stage 1 starter stats-wise.

I like most of those Pokemon and its not fun to try to use them in game, which sucks.

Zore fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jun 18, 2019

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:12

Gripweed: Nov 8, 2018; Women are wonderful animals, they should be making music and writing novels about having a complex relationship with your mother.

I swear to god, if I get another Pokemon into the red but before I can throw pokeball it calls for help, requiring me to kill the new one before I can even try to catch the first one, I'm throwing this game into the fire

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:26

Diet Poison: Jan 20, 2008; LICK MY ASS

RELEASE THE ~~TAX RETURNS~~ GALAR DEX YOU COWARDS.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:29

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Gripweed posted:

I swear to god, if I get another Pokemon into the red but before I can throw pokeball it calls for help, requiring me to kill the new one before I can even try to catch the first one, I'm throwing this game into the fire

If you status them they skip the call for help routine totally or 90% of the time.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:31

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

Gripweed posted:

I swear to god, if I get another Pokemon into the red but before I can throw pokeball it calls for help, requiring me to kill the new one before I can even try to catch the first one, I'm throwing this game into the fire

they stop calling for help so often if you give them a status condition, so thunder wave is your friend :eng101:

but yeah if SM have one problem, it's the fact that wild pokemon are too eager to help each other. I tried to catch a wishiwashi for my team and the drat things nearly loving wiped out my team with chip damage

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:32

Houle: Oct 21, 2010

Blaze Dragon posted:

While I'm a gigantic fan of this kind of thing because it's hilarious, mapping Captain Falcon to Pikachu causes severe animation glitches. You probably don't want that as a professional game.

Which is why I mentioned the similar groups of skeletons. I'm guessing that Kirby and Jigglypuff don't glitch as much or Link and Marth.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:36

Gripweed: Nov 8, 2018; Women are wonderful animals, they should be making music and writing novels about having a complex relationship with your mother.

Houle posted:

Which is why I mentioned the similar groups of skeletons. I'm guessing that Kirby and Jigglypuff don't glitch as much or Link and Marth.

Jigglypuff that could move like Kirby would be weird as hell. Its arms would clip into its ears

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:37

qnqnx: Nov 14, 2010

Zore posted:

Hydreigon
Volcarona
Briavary
Vanilluxe
Meinshao
Bisharp
Noivern
Klinklang
Beeheyem
Lampent
Golurk
Tynamo
Frillish
Ferroseee
Gothorita
Solosis

Are the ones I'm specifically talking about. Some of them do evolve after 6 gyms, but thats uh still a huge amount of time to be dragging along a Pokemon on par with a stage 1 starter stats-wise.

I like most of those Pokemon and its not fun to try to use them in game, which sucks.

Although all of those were designed with the level curve of 5, only Deino and Pawniard had issues if not fully evolved with said evolution coming really late. Everything else was fine, if a bit of a challenge at times like Mienfoo, Tynamo and in particular Larvesta due to switching from Physical favoring to Special favoring on evolution.
Noibat and Noivern are gen 6, by the way.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:38

Blaziken386: Jun 27, 2013; I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

qnqnx posted:

Although all of those were designed with the level curve of 5, only Deino and Pawniard had issues if not fully evolved with said evolution coming really late. Everything else was fine, if a bit of a challenge at times like Mienfoo, Tynamo and in particular Larvesta due to switching from Physical favoring to Special favoring on evolution.
Noibat and Noivern are gen 6, by the way.

Tynamo has really lovely stats, TBH. I agree that they should've balanced it out a little better, if only because you get the thunderstone you need to evolve it in the cave you catch it in. It's in its second stage for all of five minutes.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:41

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

qnqnx posted:

Although all of those were designed with the level curve of 5, only Deino and Pawniard had issues if not fully evolved with said evolution coming really late. Everything else was fine, if a bit of a challenge at times like Mienfoo, Tynamo and in particular Larvesta due to switching from Physical favoring to Special favoring on evolution.
Noibat and Noivern are gen 6, by the way.

You should try to actually use some of them in game from a lower level. Its awful. Like Rufflet is available at level 9 in SuMo and its awful by by the time your team is 30. Then it has another 24 levels to evolution.

Good call on Noibat/Noivern, I forgot they were Gen 6.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:42

qnqnx: Nov 14, 2010

Blaziken386 posted:

Tynamo has really lovely stats, TBH. I agree that they should've balanced it out a little better, if only because you get the thunderstone you need to evolve it in the cave you catch it in. It's in its second stage for all of five minutes.

To be honest, agreed. But between that and the variable exp gains of gen 5, it was not too annoying getting Tynamo evolved.
drat, I miss the Gen 5 exp gain method.

Zore posted:

You should try to actually use some of them in game from a lower level. Its awful. Like Rufflet is available at level 9 in SuMo and its awful by by the time your team is 30. Then it has another 24 levels to evolution.

Good call on Noibat/Noivern, I forgot they were Gen 6.

Like I said before, many of them got hosed by latter games not escalating in the level curve as high as the gen 5 games.
I mean, I have used Mienfoo, Klink, Pawniard and Elgyem of those I can remember right now, but all in B/W/B2/W2

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:48

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

qnqnx posted:

To be honest, agreed. But between that and the variable exp gains of gen 5, it was not too annoying getting Tynamo evolved.
drat, I miss the Gen 5 exp gain method.

Like I said before, many of them got hosed by latter games not escalating in the level curve as high as the gen 5 games.
I mean, I have used Mienfoo, Klink, Pawniard and Elgyem of those I can remember right now, but all in B/W/B2/W2

Gen VII reimplemented the Gen V exp scale. Gen VI was just a weird step back for some reason :shrug:

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:50

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 19:56

Araxxor: Oct 20, 2012; My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

Noibat to Noivern is a really strange one. Noibat has the same BST as Zubat, and Noivern has the same as Crobat's. Mechanically, they basically cut out Golbat there. You don't even see Noibat that early in XY. By the time you run into one, it's a few levels away from evolving, which is just baffling.

And basically causes raising one in USUM to be a huge pain because they refuse to change level requirements for evolution.

# ? Jun 18, 2019 02:52

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