|
the ideological propaganda in chernobyl is to be expected and kinda unavoidable. you can't really screenwrite a series for major corporate tv and give the soviets a fair depiction, if you actually expect to see it produced. the fact that there was actually less outright propaganda than i would've expected from an hbo product is imho a point in the screenwriters favour. but whatever, im a class traitor anyway
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 15:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 09:55 |
|
|
Sheng-Ji Yang posted:the worst moment to me was when the nuclear scientist lady poo poo on the party apparatchik for formerly working at a shoe factory or something That was a really weird scene. She was trying to convince him to evacuate an entire town against the orders of the party and then randomly insults him. Also I'm pretty sure that guy's secretary was the one legged Russian woman from the sopranos
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:00
|
|
|
Sheng-Ji Yang posted:the worst moment to me was when the nuclear scientist lady poo poo on the party apparatchik for formerly working at a shoe factory or something A former scientist party apparatchik would never just cover their rear end, because scientists always care about the truth. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:01
|
|
|
Serf posted:i really liked chernobyl, but i'm a sucker for jared harris and stellan skarsgard https://twitter.com/quendergeer/status/1138023755979141120  
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:05
|
|
|
Frog Act posted:I’ve got my syllabus at home somewhere, I’ve been meaning to pull it out and rewatch the ones I can find (many of them the professor had very old copies or had bought them at considerable expense from specialist archives). I’ll post them when I get home today Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:06
|
|
|
Captain Billy Pissboy posted:That was a really weird scene. She was trying to convince him to evacuate an entire town against the orders of the party and then randomly insults him. Also I'm pretty sure that guy's secretary was the one legged Russian woman from the sopranos not a town, one of the largest cities in the entire Union
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:28
|
|
|
"hello mr. mayor i am some mid level scientist you have literally never heard of. I am much smarter than you and because of this you should evacuate the entire city of boston you colossal dumbass you clod"
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:29
|
|
|
quote:Valery Legasov (Jared Harris), a member of the Academy of Sciences, lives in nearly the same kind of squalor as a fireman in the Ukrainian town of Pripyat. quote:More often, however, we are given to believe that the three men who were put on trial—and especially one of them, a particularly unattractive villain by the name of Anatoly Dyatlov (Paul Ritter)—are to blame. We see him strong-arming younger, better men into actions that will ultimately lead to catastrophe. All because, it seems, he wants a promotion. In fact, it wasn’t the carrot of a single promotion, or even several promotions, and it wasn’t one nasty and abusive boss. It was the system, made up primarily of pliant men and women, that cut its own corners, ignored its own precautions, and ultimately blew up its own nuclear reactor for no good reason except that this was how things were done. The viewer is invited to fantasize that, if not for Dyatlov, the better men would have done the right thing and the fatal flaw in the reactor, and the system itself, might have remained latent. This is a lie. The show tries hard to blame "the system" for the disaster but the trial scene hammers home how it really was primarily Dyatlov's fault. He actively ignores dozens of warnings from the reactor control system and his subordinates. Better men did do the right thing as evidenced by the fact that this only happened once.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:30
|
|
|
anyhow my only problem with the final episode is that is actually a decent reason to put graphite on control rod tips, it apparently makes each control rod have a strong effect when fully inserted. its just that inserting all 200+ rods at once is like pressing the plunger on a detonator
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:31
|
|
|
Captain Billy Pissboy posted:The show tries hard to blame "the system" for the disaster but the trial scene hammers home how it really was primarily Dyatlov's fault. He actively ignores dozens of warnings from the reactor control system and his subordinates. Better men did do the right thing as evidenced by the fact that this only happened once. the thing that cements dyatlov as being the singular person responsible for the explosion is when legasov points out that the test results were meaningless the moment they entered the xenon hole
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:32
|
|
|
lmfao at anyone attempting to portray a system that gives both nuclear scientists and firemen comparable, modern apartments for free, and builds new ones according to need, as somehow perpetuating squalor I wish I was half as prosperous as an East German or Russian/Byelorussian professional would have been 35 years ago
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:33
|
|
|
the show goes out of its way to depict dyatlov as essentially a psychopathic monster, i have no idea what this person is saying
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:35
|
|
|
Serf posted:the show goes out of its way to depict dyatlov as essentially a psychopathic monster, i have no idea what this person is saying by every historical account he was a gigantic rear end in a top hat
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:36
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:by every historical account he was a gigantic rear end in a top hat oh yeah, i'm not contesting that. its just, the show appears to be accurate here. no one else would have done what dyatlov did, meaning that he was the failure point, not the system itself
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:37
|
|
|
him ending up in charge is a systemic failure
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:39
|
|
|
Frog Act posted:I wish I was half as prosperous as an East German or Russian/Byelorussian professional would have been 35 years ago
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:40
|
|
|
Prav posted:him ending up in charge is a systemic failure true, but overly ambitious assholes willing to ignore safety regulations and other rules to advance their career is definitely not unique to communism
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:44
|
|
|
Prav posted:him ending up in charge is a systemic failure until we abolish hierarchy there will always be a chance that a psychopath winds up in a position of power
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:46
|
|
|
Frog Act posted:
they weren't seventy grand in debt for a useless degree either
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 16:54
|
|
|
Sheng-Ji Yang posted:true, but overly ambitious assholes willing to ignore safety regulations and other rules to advance their career is definitely not unique to communism  my reaction was probably colored by my own bias, but i took a lot of the dialogue (around incompetence, rear end covering, politicization and outright lies) more as well deserved stabs at trump and trumpism (and / or their european counterparts) than anti soviet agitprop Red Dad Redemption fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jun 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 17:05
|
|
|
 let's become jucheists yall
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 17:05
|
|
|
i shant be watching Chernobyl because everything I heard about it reminds me of the Americans at its worst like the final season where Gorbachev is basically the second coming of jesus, or when they tried to describe a working class Moscow apartment as being a shithole despite being bigger than most places ive lived
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 17:30
|
|
|
i shan't be watching chernobyl because i read Voices from Chernobyl and it disturbed me enough that i feel queasy just thinking of watching a tv series on it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 17:40
|
|
|
Larry Parrish posted:i shant be watching Chernobyl because everything I heard about it reminds me of the Americans at its worst like the final season where Gorbachev is basically the second coming of jesus, or when they tried to describe a working class Moscow apartment as being a shithole despite being bigger than most places ive lived its fine you big baby Cybernetic Vermin posted:i shan't be watching chernobyl because i read Voices from Chernobyl and it disturbed me enough that i feel queasy just thinking of watching a tv series on it. otoh fair enough, especially since they really go in on showing a couple of people literally disintegrating on the cellular level oh and also dog murder
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 17:40
|
|
|
unless the art is socialist realism, I won't watch it. no thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 17:41
|
|
|
At least watch the first episode because the scenes dealing with the immediate aftermath of the explosion are real good
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 17:47
|
|
|
Frog Act posted:lmfao at anyone attempting to portray a system that gives both nuclear scientists and firemen comparable, modern apartments for free, and builds new ones according to need, as somehow perpetuating squalor I think the author was probably even more horrified by that scene where Dyatlov has to walk to the bus stop and go to work like everyone else.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 17:50
|
|
|
I know Pripyat was a model town and most of the USSR wasn't like that but drat did it look so much nicer than anywhere in the us I've lived.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 17:53
|
|
|
it ruled that the old dude who ran poo poo in pripyat lived in an apartment like everyone else and also got on the bus with everyone else during the evacuation
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 17:55
|
|
|
Chernobyl really was a great illustration of the superiority of the Soviet system in a popular phenomenological sense but American and British brains are so hosed up we just interpret any depiction of equality as an existential attack on us
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 18:10
|
|
|
Frog Act posted:Chernobyl really was a great illustration of the superiority of the Soviet system in a popular phenomenological sense but American and British brains are so hosed up we just interpret any depiction of equality as an existential attack on us lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 18:11
|
|
|
I’m only half joking about depictions of material equality, or attempts at constructing it, being inevitably depicted as manifestation of social collapse and collective dysthymia because it means people with indistinguishable, minute class differences have to buy the same kind of toothpaste
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 18:13
|
|
|
it was impressive how all buildings in the show's pripyat aged thirty years over a few months
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 18:16
|
|
|
they should have thrown a line in there in the first episode where dyatlov said something like "I hope people studying this incident 40 years from now in a pop television show realize this is an indictment of bureaucracy and not the immortal Soviet System". tell, not show. show, not tell is CIA agit prop
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 18:19
|
|
|
why did fomin get arrested anyway. dyatlov caused the explosion, frizzy hair guy whose super slavic name starts with a B committed fraud, but fomin's only crime is luring a promotion in front of dyatlov????
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 18:45
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:why did fomin get arrested anyway. dyatlov caused the explosion, frizzy hair guy whose super slavic name starts with a B committed fraud, but fomin's only crime is luring a promotion in front of dyatlov???? wasn't he the guy that refused to believe the reactor was gone, and just kept feeding water into the pit? that made everything about 20x worse.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 19:15
|
|
|
Karl Barks posted:wasn't he the guy that refused to believe the reactor was gone, and just kept feeding water into the pit? that made everything about 20x worse. no that was dyatlov. he was the sniveling balding dweeb that kept demanding people explain how a reactor explodes
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 19:20
|
|
|
Plutonis posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6ygoBhYUI4
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 19:39
|
|
|
Captain Billy Pissboy posted:The show tries hard to blame "the system" for the disaster but the trial scene hammers home how it really was primarily Dyatlov's fault. He actively ignores dozens of warnings from the reactor control system and his subordinates. Better men did do the right thing as evidenced by the fact that this only happened once.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 19:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 09:55 |
|
|
BrutalistMcDonalds posted:this is interesting to me and i don't really understand how this is happening, like the ideological-control message is getting thrown somehow. death of stalin for instance was this over-the-top murder fest but then there'd be scenes where crowds of people would be streaming into the city with red flags and bumrushing the NKVD troops sent out to control access. "we're here to see comrade stalin!" it undermines the idea that this was just some dictatorship that ruled by repression alone your average liberal basically assumes every government official from the revolution to the collapse was a clone of Beria
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2019 20:16
|
|