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I liked San Junipero because I hope that, when I'm old and dying, I'll be able to go into a VR world where I can do all the stuff I was too socially awkward to do in my 20s.
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Jun 19, 2019 05:02
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Or you might just end up being the dead guy in the episode who's too socially awkward to do anything.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 05:04
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Sleeveless posted:Ashley Too felt out of touch and toothless in a way I've never seen in Black Mirror before because of all the entertainment industries to do a story about a creative being abused and dehumanized in the name of profit the music industry is the least relevant one you possibly could have chosen. Its power and influenced peaked over 30 years ago and the type of superstar it was focused on basically doesn't exist anymore outside of weird specific incidents like idol culture in Japan and Korea. Avicii was litterally driven to suicide because his managers pushed him to perform when he was completely exhausted A hologram of 2Pac has allready held a concert. The episode was unrealistic because it showed that its possible for the artist to win against the machine.
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Jun 19, 2019 07:52
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Something I missed is that the main song (on a roll) is basically what they are doing to Ashley's lyrics music from her coma which is neat.
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Jun 19, 2019 10:47
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Brooker said he wasn't much a of lyricist, but "riding so high, achieving my goals" is some kind of genius. It's such a great skewering of vague meaningless empowerment pop with creepily submissive sexualisation. But weird coming from a middle aged dude, but I'm taking MCs involvement as an endorsement of the point it's trying to make. I also love how outside of a few big winners, everyone's ranking of episodes is really variable, even with goons, who you'd expect to be somewhat similar in tastes. I like that the show is happy to experiment, even if it doesn't always hit the mark. Nosedive is maybe the only one I get defensive about when I see it outside the top 5. I thought it was absolutely brutal and hilarious, (especially her friend who exists only in Instagram boon-poses, even on the phone) and one of the most positive endings in the whole series.
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Jun 19, 2019 10:52
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No Wave posted:Or you might just end up being the dead guy in the episode who's too socially awkward to do anything. Probably. But hey, eternal life/youth
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Jun 19, 2019 11:31
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Til the server room is shut down or the company feels like turning it off that is. I wouldn't say eternal given we know their existence is dependent on some blinking lights.
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Jun 19, 2019 13:29
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Xealot posted:Apparently, the original idea for "Metalhead" involved a bunch of scenes of a drone operator (sysadmin, really, since they're autonomous) living a domestic family life wherever he operates. That's already the theme of Men Against Fire though. Most people seem to dislike it, but it does deal with exactly this. Making the drones autonomous takes it one step further and asks what happens if there isn't even a human pulling the trigger to experience any cost of war anymore. I liked Metalhead because it's the intersection of Shut Up and Dance's "This is basically possible with today's technology" (practically, I'd say it's very close) and the absolutely bleak dystopic future a bunch of other episodes show.
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Jun 19, 2019 13:37
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Lukewarm take: I think the later seasons of Black Mirror aren't as good because society and technology caught up with, and surpassed in absurdity any possible idea for an episode: - a reality star is president of the US (and people thought Schwarzenegger being governor of CA was weird) - literal Nazis are back and a substantial enough percent of the population is ok with it - VR is more and more accepted in gaming/everyday use (when 10 years back was still considered "a fad") - Tupac is a hologram - people are really live-streaming everything they do every second of their life - dating has moved more to online than face-to-face (by which I mean people go to dating sites to meet partners, rather than go to a bar, or parties) - there's a forever war going on in the middle-east to the point that it's become a farce. - the government was caught spying on its people and we as a collective decided we were ok with it - internet memes are used for political ends The 2010s was a weird decade for society.
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Jun 19, 2019 13:43
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I think you might be out of touch with history, which has generally had unusual things happen.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 13:48
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Sleeveless posted:Reminder that fictional characters acting in ways that are not pure logic and emotionless reason is not a failure of the writing or a plot hole, it's a failure of your ability to understand basic human empathy and storytelling. I think we’re okay with bad decisions that make sense to the characters. But “risk everyone’s lives for Teddy Bears” is so bad that it should only be given to characters they’ve established aren’t mentally well. It’s like if I was hungry but I left my wallet at home so I held up Wendy’s for just their burgers.
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Jun 19, 2019 14:15
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hard sci-fi nerds hate Metalhead because it's not "about" anything while simultaneously missing the point of the episode and complaining that an episode about humanity clashing with cold unfeeling robots didn't have people that were cold and unfeeling.
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No Wave posted:I think you might be out of touch with history, which has generally had unusual things happen. Well, yes. But for a show that is critiquing modern technology and the possible futures it might create, it's not quite as fantastic as the real deal. I half-remember an episode of "the Outer Limits" I watched as a kid (upon rereading the synopsis it's slightly different than what I remember) about a guy who has a relationship with a holographic woman, and for some reason the hologram decided she was pregnant and gave birth to a holographic child. I thought to myself "wow! What if humanity decided to kill itself off by choosing fake relationships over real ones?", But had I watched it today I would say "this is something that is happening right now"
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Jun 19, 2019 14:16
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No Wave posted:Or you might just end up being the dead guy in the episode who's too socially awkward to do anything. At least we'll have time to finally get high scores in 80s arcades quote:I liked Metalhead because it's the intersection of Shut Up and Dance's "This is basically possible with today's technology" (practically, I'd say it's very close) and the absolutely bleak dystopic future a bunch of other episodes show.  but I don't think Metalhead is anywhere near "very close." On a high level maybe(in that we can make robot dogs that move), but those little robots couldn't carry all the equipment they'd need to keep their guns and shrapnel trackers working for long. Also solar and power storage is not anywhere near being viable for something like that. Even if they could generate the hilarious amount of power they'd need from direct sunlight, after even a year or so as their batteries aged they'd probably die permanently if they went indoors, nearly instantly.Thus ended the great robot revolution... Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 15:45
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Ornithology posted:Til the server room is shut down or the company feels like turning it off that is. I wouldn't say eternal given we know their existence is dependent on some blinking lights.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:03
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San J never established that it’s the real dead person’s consciousness and not a copy/simulation, right? As long as you’re not currently in a simulation, death is it for you
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Jun 19, 2019 16:13
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I thought the whole idea was that consciousness got transferred (sci fi logic but I'll roll with it, given that it's literally impossible to prove). If not the whole thing is way weirder.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:16
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Solar Tornado posted:I half-remember an episode of "the Outer Limits" I watched as a kid (upon rereading the synopsis it's slightly different than what I remember) about a guy who has a relationship with a holographic woman, and for some reason the hologram decided she was pregnant and gave birth to a holographic child. I thought to myself "wow! What if humanity decided to kill itself off by choosing fake relationships over real ones?", But had I watched it today I would say "this is something that is happening right now" DON'T DATE ROBOTS
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Jun 19, 2019 16:18
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No Wave posted:I thought the whole idea was that consciousness got transferred (sci fi logic but I'll roll with it, given that it's literally impossible to prove). If not the whole thing is way weirder. They transfer consciousness back and forth repeatedly in the nursing homes, so either it doesn't kill you, or they kill, resurrect, kill, resurrect every San Junipero patient every weekend. Black Museum shows the "early" version of the same technology, and that explicitly does kill you. So I guess you can read it either way.
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Jun 19, 2019 16:48
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theflyingexecutive posted:San J never established that it’s the real dead person’s consciousness and not a copy/simulation, right? As long as you’re not currently in a simulation, death is it for you The dramatic stakes of the episode depend on the transfer being legitimate, so yeah, it's the real person's consciousness. Kelly's whole dilemma about whether she should indulge in the afterlife wouldn't matter if the "real" Kelly wasn't actually the one experiencing it. Other episodes have relied on the premise that it's a unique copy separate from the original consciousness, and wrung drama from that instead. There's no singular ruleset across the whole series, it's just whatever serves the episode's story best.
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Jun 19, 2019 17:05
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Trying to delve into the "what is consciousness" thing just ends up being a big clusterfuck, like trying to figure out Star Trek transporters. Do you die each time and become a new person? Then you never really make it to the transport location, or into the teddy bear/other person's head/dead people VR server. But then you can say the same for going to sleep. Your consciousness is just a bunch of random chemical reactions using stored memories for reference. You wake up and you're not the same person you were before. The old you died last night, and now you're you. Another you will exist tomorrow. The only real terrifying thing about it is if you make a copy of someone's brain but the old version doesn't die.
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Jun 19, 2019 17:07
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Android Blues posted:They transfer consciousness back and forth repeatedly in the nursing homes, so either it doesn't kill you, or they kill, resurrect, kill, resurrect every San Junipero patient every weekend. It'd be easy to lie (hell, it'd be easy to be wrong about) because the person who wakes up and has all the memories from before has no idea it's a new consciousness even if it is one. The previous consciousness isn't around anymore to complain. edit: the difference with going to sleep is that at least your subconscious keeps going throughout the night. When there's a complete stop of brain activity, the question gets more interesting. Off topic but among my many problems with Altered Carbon was that they didn't even try to examine this, they just take it as granted you're the same person(even when your stack backup is from before you actually died), go ahead and die, it's fine. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jun 19, 2019 |
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Jun 19, 2019 17:19
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Cojawfee posted:Trying to delve into the "what is consciousness" thing just ends up being a big clusterfuck, like trying to figure out Star Trek transporters. Do you die each time and become a new person? Then you never really make it to the transport location, or into the teddy bear/other person's head/dead people VR server. But then you can say the same for going to sleep. Your consciousness is just a bunch of random chemical reactions using stored memories for reference. You wake up and you're not the same person you were before. The old you died last night, and now you're you. Another you will exist tomorrow. The only real terrifying thing about it is if you make a copy of someone's brain but the old version doesn't die.  The more I think about this, the more disturbed I get, and it already started pretty bad.
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Jun 19, 2019 17:26
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Ornithology posted:Til the server room is shut down or the company feels like turning it off that is. I wouldn't say eternal given we know their existence is dependent on some blinking lights. It's not supposed to be eternal, the characters repeatedly says that its just meant to be a stopgap.
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Jun 19, 2019 17:28
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Cojawfee posted:The only real terrifying thing about it is if you make a copy of someone's brain but the old version doesn't die. There's a short story about this, I feel like it was posted in this thread before, about a rich guy who transplants his brain into a young clone of himself. Someone has to know what I'm talking about, couldn't find it through cursory googling.
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Jun 19, 2019 17:56
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Cojawfee posted:Trying to delve into the "what is consciousness" thing just ends up being a big clusterfuck, like trying to figure out Star Trek transporters. Do you die each time and become a new person? Then you never really make it to the transport location, or into the teddy bear/other person's head/dead people VR server. But then you can say the same for going to sleep. Your consciousness is just a bunch of random chemical reactions using stored memories for reference. You wake up and you're not the same person you were before. The old you died last night, and now you're you. Another you will exist tomorrow. The only real terrifying thing about it is if you make a copy of someone's brain but the old version doesn't die. Dude, you just hosed me up
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Jun 19, 2019 18:29
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:There's a short story about this, I feel like it was posted in this thread before, about a rich guy who transplants his brain into a young clone of himself. Someone has to know what I'm talking about, couldn't find it through cursory googling. http://www.eidolon.net/?story=The%20Extra
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Jun 19, 2019 19:01
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Jun 19, 2019 19:09
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:
Exestential comics has you covered: https://existentialcomics.com/comic/1
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Jun 19, 2019 20:02
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Your brain doesn't stop working while you sleep, it's actually pretty active. There's continuity of consciousness.
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Jun 19, 2019 20:09
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I guess I'm the only person who's a fan of Hang the DJ? Yes, the story itself is pretty straightforward, but I do love the chemistry with the leads, and also their "second relationships", especially Nikola. Other than that 15MM, Nosedive, White Christmas, and Be Right Back. Also a fan of Arkangel, but as someone mentioned before, that probably has to do with me being a parent of a young child and trying to restrain my "overprotection" instinct.
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Jun 19, 2019 20:09
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clockworx posted:I guess I'm the only person who's a fan of Hang the DJ? Yes, the story itself is pretty straightforward, but I do love the chemistry with the leads, and also their "second relationships", especially Nikola. Yeah, this is totally true. I also like the eponymous song at the end.
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Jun 19, 2019 20:51
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The end was just such a groan for me. The style of the episode was great, and yeah Nicola was totally hilarious, but jeez that ending was way too cute.
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Jun 19, 2019 21:21
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No Wave posted:The end was just such a groan for me. The style of the episode was great, and yeah Nicola was totally hilarious, but jeez that ending was way too cute.
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Jun 19, 2019 23:49
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clockworx posted:I guess I'm the only person who's a fan of Hang the DJ? Yes, the story itself is pretty straightforward, but I do love the chemistry with the leads, and also their "second relationships", especially Nikola. Other than that 15MM, Nosedive, White Christmas, and Be Right Back. No Wave posted:The end was just such a groan for me. The style of the episode was great, and yeah Nicola was totally hilarious, but jeez that ending was way too cute. Yeah I really liked Hang the DJ until the ending. I think it works better if you just ignore it.
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Jun 19, 2019 23:53
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I love Hang the DJ. It’s a really interesting examination of relationship dynamics. The “relationship expiration” concept alone could carry a full length dramedy film. The ending is a bit of a letdown but the episode kind of doesn’t work without it and there are several hints that it’s a simulation. You start out assuming this place is some sort of retreat. Then you learn that they’re spending years here, seemingly doing nothing but going on dates and attending seminars. There’s also the details they notice like how the rocks always skip four times or whatever. If it weren’t a simulation they could also just say “well screw that, lets quit The System.”
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Jun 20, 2019 00:42
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LividLiquid posted:The ending is absolutely what ruins Hang the DJ for most people, I bet. Same with Playtest. Good stories with dumb “it was all a dream” twists.
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Jun 20, 2019 00:42
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Saucy_Rodent posted:Same with Playtest. Good stories with dumb “it was all a dream” twists.
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Jun 20, 2019 00:57
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SweetMercifulCrap! posted:I love Hang the DJ. It’s a really interesting examination of relationship dynamics. The “relationship expiration” concept alone could carry a full length dramedy film. The ending is a bit of a letdown but the episode kind of doesn’t work without it and there are several hints that it’s a simulation. You start out assuming this place is some sort of retreat. Then you learn that they’re spending years here, seemingly doing nothing but going on dates and attending seminars. There’s also the details they notice like how the rocks always skip four times or whatever. Yeah I think the "it was a simulation in a dating app!" ending isn't necessary for the story to work - I feel like a good comparison would be 15 million merits, where you have an equally bizarre fictional society, but you don't really question the logistics of it because there's no reason to. It doesn't have to "make sense" as a realistic society, it just starts with the premise that it is the way it is and runs with it from there. Like Hang the DJ could just as easily have been something that was totally real, where The System has existed for however long it would need to exist for everyone not to question it.
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Jun 20, 2019 01:05
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Griefor posted:That's already the theme of Men Against Fire though. Most people seem to dislike it, but it does deal with exactly this. Making the drones autonomous takes it one step further and asks what happens if there isn't even a human pulling the trigger to experience any cost of war anymore. It's related, but I think slightly different. I see "Men Against Fire" as more about propaganda, and the capacity for technology to totally warp your perspective of the world depending on who's controlling the feed. It's about military tech, but to me more related to things like fake news on social media; as an example, the genocide of the Rohingya in Myanmar is closely linked to the ubiquity of fake rightwing news on Facebook. Average people there have developed radical and genocidal beliefs because they're so deeply immersed in a false narrative and have no alternative viewpoint. I see the parallel you're drawing, though. Even though the actual "Metalhead" episode doesn't make it explicit, I likewise assumed someone controlled the dogs, but a lot of people I've talked to read it as a Terminator kind of thing...a military AI decided to kill everyone and nobody controls them. To me, that kind of undermines the more interesting drone warfare aspects we're talking about. Because then it becomes a broader, "undone by our hubris" message rather than being about a human bureaucracy trying to streamline war by glossing over its horrors. LividLiquid posted:The ending is absolutely what ruins Hang the DJ for most people, I bet. Yeah, I'm dead inside because I wanted a way more downer ending. Like, if instead of Frank and Amy being a 99% match, they're a 90% match. So, 90% of their simulated selves bet everything on love. But in the real world, Frank sees Amy's profile, swipes left, then keep swiping through a 95%, an 89%, a 93%...
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Jun 20, 2019 01:22
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah I think the "it was a simulation in a dating app!" ending isn't necessary for the story to work - I feel like a good comparison would be 15 million merits, where you have an equally bizarre fictional society, but you don't really question the logistics of it because there's no reason to. It doesn't have to "make sense" as a realistic society, it just starts with the premise that it is the way it is and runs with it from there. That’s true. I was thinking only in terms of how The System could work in real life. There could be devices telling you what to do, but without an environment that pretty much forces you go obey the devices it wouldn’t work. But in a controlled environment it would.
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Jun 20, 2019 01:34
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