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leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Cuntpunch posted:

Your points are completely valid and reasonable, but I've been out of the gamedev world for a while. Even in a 'keep the class tree flat as possible' don't you still end up with *some* sort of structured orchestration of the game? Where various systems are orchestrated and things are largely kept away from one another?

It seems like chaos to me - in the sense that the only orchestration he's even spoken about tends to just be the main loop telling everything to update.
The player entity has full access to the gamestate. When it, for example, 'shoots' - it takes responsibility for spawning the projectile object and giving that entity access to this glob of state. The projectile then takes responsibility each frame for tracking where it's at, testing its own collision, and knowing how to resolve a collision. It hits a monster enemy? It reaches into the glob of state to manually goof with the health of that enemy.

yes, that sounds pretty bad. i’d probably build something like that as follows:

‘shooting’ is hooked up to a generator which is responsible for creating a new id for the projectile and mapping its dependent properties into relevant collections; sprite, position, velocity, collision bounds, etc.

then these systems would run in some sensible order in the main loop:
a system responsible for updating position of nodes moving at velocity.
a system responsible for testing collisions of projectiles and things they can hit (say, things with health).
a system responsible for despawning projectiles that exit predefined world bounds.
a system responsible for drawing sprites.


then if you want to add fire bullets or w/e you just need to split or replicate the middle system and tag your data so only appropriate data is munged by appropriate systems. having each node be responsible for itself is a very non-performant way of dealing with large-ish sets of elements. your coworker’s approach will probably work fine for the likely 10s of elements they have on screen. :shrug:



stated completely differently: games have finally gotten back to the idea of batch processing because writ large, the costs of context switching matters a lot. at least if your primary concern is throughput. probably i should read up on job scheduling papers from the 70s and 80s. nothing is new.

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redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

lifg posted:

It's weird to read older books on software development, specifically before the agile revolution of 2000, and realize that there was a whole body of knowledge on that was simply tossed out and forgotten. I've been reading stuff by Capers Jones, who did a lot of hard work of analyzing and reporting on large projects, and I'm convinced I can use his insights to help plan the next thing I get put on.

It's not surprising given this industry's deep-seated loathing of anything "old".

If you want to make big bank, read a few of these old books, invent some buzzwords for the core concepts, and sell these repackaged ideas through books, consulting, conferences, ...

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon

redleader posted:

It's not surprising given this industry's deep-seated loathing of anything "old".

If you want to make big bank, read a few of these old books, invent some buzzwords for the core concepts, and sell these repackaged ideas through books, consulting, conferences, ...

Agile Function Points, coming soon to a consultancy near you.

xiw
Sep 25, 2011

i wake up at night
night action madness nightmares
maybe i am scum

Cpig Haiku contest 2020 winner
Yeah it's pretty crazy how completely non-scrum has been memory-holed and how a lot of PMs have never encountered anything else. It really shows up when talking about QA and deployment.

I still think we should be making people read McConnell's Rapid Development first before letting them out.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Every generation of developers and project managers will rediscover things that are spelled out in The Mythical Man Month. It's just tradition at this point.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005

ultrafilter posted:

Every generation of developers and project managers will rediscover things that are spelled out in The Mythical Man Month. It's just tradition at this point.

I’m pretty sure an offhand reference and then need to explain second system syndrome led me to a job offer. As there were some worried looks around the table.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

ultrafilter posted:

Every generation of developers and project managers will rediscover things that are spelled out in The Mythical Man Month. It's just tradition at this point.

When can we learn the lessons of Peopleware and get something other than an open office?
:smith:

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

To be fair, it's not like pre-scrum methodologies were any better at delivering projects.

FlushablPet
Apr 27, 2002
AtKajAndAarAt

Clanpot Shake posted:

What a doozy of a badwrong opinion. Code reviews are a great tool to improve code quality and team knowledge of the system.

I came into my company's IT dept a year or so ago. In trying to drag their small appdev team's SW dev practices into the light, I suggested code reviews, and the use of git/cicd for their projects. You've never seen a bigger deer in the headlights look.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

shrike82 posted:

To be fair, it's not like pre-scrum methodologies were any better at delivering projects.

Yeah, management likes to pretend coders are fungible tho

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

xiw posted:

Yeah it's pretty crazy how completely non-scrum has been memory-holed and how a lot of PMs have never encountered anything else. It really shows up when talking about QA and deployment.

I still think we should be making people read McConnell's Rapid Development first before letting them out.
Part of the problem is that Scrum is so absolutely effective at fast-tracking development of individual features that many organizations get tunnel vision, and they fail to realize the rest of their product development and program management processes are still operating in a waterfall/PMBOK way. If that's the way your organization works—most do, beyond a certain size—you need to understand how to optimize both ends of that pipeline, not just the one that deals with individual contributor devs shoveling code into production.

Nomnom Cookie
Aug 30, 2009



Vulture Culture posted:

individual contributor devs shoveling code into production.

Everything is fire and dev is making it worse. I like that metaphor.

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

shrike82 posted:

To be fair, it's not like pre-scrum methodologies were any better at delivering projects.

I remember the good old days of pre-agile and pre-continuous delivery where we'd get a new build every month. Half the time, the build wouldn't even install. We'd spend months in meetings about requirements. There was no test automation, and no VMware - all servers were manually deployed. Forget getting working software every two weeks - even the most simple poo poo would six months. It was a project manager's nightmare.

Comradephate
Feb 28, 2009

College Slice

FlushablPet posted:

I came into my company's IT dept a year or so ago. In trying to drag their small appdev team's SW dev practices into the light, I suggested code reviews, and the use of git/cicd for their projects. You've never seen a bigger deer in the headlights look.

when I turned on mandatory code review in github at $job-1 there was just about an actual rebellion, and this was mostly ansible playbooks and the like that were used to install and update mission critical poo poo for very high-paying customers. Terrifying.

I'm also certain they turned it back off after I left.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:

Everything is fire and dev is making it worse. I like that metaphor.
It's more like: everything is on fire and the fire department has been singularly focused on the problem of optimizing flow from the hydrant onto the fire, to the exclusion of all other problems and processes

Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Jun 18, 2019

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

Comradephate posted:

when I turned on mandatory code review in github at $job-1 there was just about an actual rebellion, and this was mostly ansible playbooks and the like that were used to install and update mission critical poo poo for very high-paying customers. Terrifying.

I'm also certain they turned it back off after I left.

Just "turning something on" rarely yields the desired result though, does it? That's like "turning agile on" or "turning scrum on". There is a good reason "change management" is important if you introduce something new, because otherwise all you manage to do is to antagonise people. I see this a lot with companies buying in self-service BI tools (e.g. Tableau) without trying to get the Excel/SAS/whatever crowd or an IT department used to providing cubes on board. The result is that your fancy, expensive new introduction doesn't get used properly, and that you gave people something to work against, rather than toward.

Institutional inertia is a good part of the reason why enterprises move so slowly (alongside risk-management), and that's not a technology problem.

That's partially why I asked about code review before, because that clearly isn't a technological problem, but a people problem. The thing with small teams or startups is that you can just hope to establish new practices before they ossify. Creating tomorrow's legacy today, etc.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

Tableau is a good litmus test of an organization's ability to incorporate basis BI into their workflows - it's lightweight enough that an "Excel" org would theoretically be able to get some use out of it without much fuss.

Many orgs can't even cross that hurdle.

qsvui
Aug 23, 2003
some crazy thing
Sometimes changing management isn't enough and you need to :killing:

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED
For the love of christ, people, brush your teeth, floss, and see a dentist regularly. I feel like we've largely moved on from the "doesn't wash anything, smells like cheese" body hygiene phase of developer culture, but too many of us are still capable of killing things with our atrocious breath.

Macichne Leainig
Jul 26, 2012

by VG
I'm not familiar with the "brush your teeth" or "see a dentist" dance emotes from Fortnite but I can floss. :imunfunny:

PhantomOfTheCopier
Aug 13, 2008

Pikabooze!
I ride the bus and the number of people in the morning that smell like sweat strongly suggests an over-emphasis on saving water or something.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED
Covering yourself with only the finest expeller-pressed extra virgin olive oil and scraping it off with a mother-of-pearl scraper is the path to enlightened personal hygiene.

And for the mouth, oil pulling.

(:barf:)

good jovi
Dec 11, 2000

'm pro-dickgirl, and I VOTE!

Che Delilas posted:

For the love of christ, people, brush your teeth, floss, and see a dentist regularly. I feel like we've largely moved on from the "doesn't wash anything, smells like cheese" body hygiene phase of developer culture, but too many of us are still capable of killing things with our atrocious breath.

My theory is that there's some kind of really personal pheromone component to bad breath. There are people that by all appearances have totally fine hygiene, their teeth even look fine, but up close, their breath is just repulsive to me. I would say that generally speaking, I don't like these people. My suspicion is that people who actually do like them would find their breath inoffensive. I do not plan to ever actually test this theory, but it's worked so far.

Taffer
Oct 15, 2010


good jovi posted:

My theory is that there's some kind of really personal pheromone component to bad breath. There are people that by all appearances have totally fine hygiene, their teeth even look fine, but up close, their breath is just repulsive to me. I would say that generally speaking, I don't like these people. My suspicion is that people who actually do like them would find their breath inoffensive. I do not plan to ever actually test this theory, but it's worked so far.

There is actually some science behind this, where people with complementary immune systems will find the scent of someone "compatible" appealing while others will find it off-putting. That said, dental hygene is A Thing and involves way more than just brushing your teeth. Most people don't do a very good job of it, and will often have nasty breath because of it.

In the US, it's very fair to put a significant portion of the blame on this on our healthcare system, where a lot of people will avoid hospitals or doctors of all types unless it's an emergency, out of fear of gigantic bills that they cannot afford. Dentists are one of the multitude of ways in which the life expectancy in this country is going down.

Harriet Carker
Jun 2, 2009

I know what the problem is. At my past three jobs, I’m the only one I’ve ever seen brushing my teeth after morning coffee and/or lunch. Y’all - if you eat and go to an afternoon meeting without brushing, you’re the one with the bad breath. Sorry to break it to you. Keep a toothbrush in your desk drawer.

PhantomOfTheCopier
Aug 13, 2008

Pikabooze!
Starbucks coffee tastes burnt. Is it any wonder that so many of their consumers have bad coffee breath?

biceps crimes
Apr 12, 2008


A surprising amount of people don't brush their tongue. That thing stinks if you don't scrub it. Brush your tongues, people.

Rubellavator
Aug 16, 2007

I've never really had to smell my coworkers breath. Ever. Also brushing immediately after eating actually damages your teeth.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Rubellavator posted:

I've never really had to smell my coworkers breath. Ever.
yeah what kind of intimate meeting love seats are y'all using out there

just call in

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
Work fully remote like a real professional

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
I had to open my office windows once to clear out the bad breath of a coworker who came in and asked me a question. Then, right when the smell had gone away, they came back.

shrike82
Jun 11, 2005

The grossest hygiene thing I've seen with a colleague is a person who, I'm not sure how better to describe this, would sometimes have a coating of white, dried spit around their mouth.

Seemed to happen when the person was stressed out so I felt bad about it.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost
Working in Development: Oral Backlog Grooming

Someone will eventually come up with a way to have employees that most need to take care of their personal hygiene fix it and truly earn the billions they deserve for keeping people from conducting domestic terrorism in the workplace with biological weapons.

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
After making my previous post, I encountered a coworker brushing their teeth inside the bathroom stall.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
From one of many places:

https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/1141786872387010561

downout
Jul 6, 2009


I need context

edit: so this is an application that converts gifs to pngs. fuzzer bug is when you input lots of garbage characters?

qsvui
Aug 23, 2003
some crazy thing
i saw esr and i immediately understood

Volguus
Mar 3, 2009

quote:

In Japan, It's a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home On Time?

Last month, as Americans tuned in to the final episode of "Game of Thrones," Japan was indulging in its own television fantasy world. In this one, a woman dares to leave work at 6 p.m. sharp. The determination of Yui Higashiyama, a 30-something project manager who wants nothing more than to get out of the office and into her favorite bar for happy hour, rocks the fictional web design firm where she works. A conniving supervisor and overachieving co-workers try to foil her plans. When her team faces a seemingly impossible deadline in Episode 9, she puts aside her steely commitment to work-life balance, dramatically declaring, "I will work overtime!" Ms. Higashiyama is the protagonist of "I Will Not Work Overtime, Period!" -- a modest television hit in Japan that has struck a chord in a country with a dangerously intense, at times deadly, national work ethic

Slashdot

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

downout posted:

I need context

edit: so this is an application that converts gifs to pngs. fuzzer bug is when you input lots of garbage characters?

A fuzzer is a form of testing, generally security testing, which will blast random input until something happens. It's very good at finding uncommon cases, buffer overflows, etc. In this case, he's "solving" a potential exploit by just having the program quit on segfaults (where the program tries to use memory that it doesn't own) instead of taking the next step to understand that a motivated party could instead plant exploit code there which would get blindly run. Anyone using this library could get exploited. He's solving his serious security issues by pretending that they don't happen and actively sticking his head in the sand.

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spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
Why do I even know who that blowhard is? I'm under the impression he wrote some useful piece of software 30 years ago or something?

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