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hmm, reading up on the gulf war and thinking that getting 35 countries together to invade what appears to be a country with like 6 cities in it was maybe a bit overkill
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Jun 22, 2019 01:30
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Raskolnikov38 posted:i feel like if this was true we would have already put a million patriot missile batteries around every oil field owned by someone that doesnt hate us there's no way that idea hasn't been floated
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Jun 22, 2019 01:43
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30/70 there's gonna be a war, but i go back and forth by the hour rn
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Jun 22, 2019 01:45
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as dumb as trump is he's in-tune enough with his base to know that they dont have an appetite for a war with iran. now if an american or god forbid american soldier dies...
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Jun 22, 2019 02:54
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mandatory lesbian posted:hmm, reading up on the gulf war and thinking that getting 35 countries together to invade what appears to be a country with like 6 cities in it was maybe a bit overkill in no way good or right, but try wrapping your head around the fact saddam was being completely rational when he invaded kuwait. absolutely inline with known baathist regional aims that had the total support of us foreign policy right up until his tanks crossed the border. there absolutely zero indication in their history that america would react the way it did. diplomatic chiding, sanctions, maybe bomb some off-brand stuff, but loving up his armoured corps, which the us paid for to use as a tool in bleeding iran, literal and material, is honestly kinda unexpected. incoherent foreign policy they try to course correct now and then with a light dusting of genocide.
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Jun 22, 2019 03:19
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jfood posted:in no way good or right, but try wrapping your head around the fact saddam was being completely rational when he invaded kuwait. absolutely inline with known baathist regional aims that had the total support of us foreign policy right up until his tanks crossed the border. there absolutely zero indication in their history that america would react the way it did. diplomatic chiding, sanctions, maybe bomb some off-brand stuff, but loving up his armoured corps, which the us paid for to use as a tool in bleeding iran, literal and material, is honestly kinda unexpected. its crazy to me the united states stood by watching watching the iraqi build up and literally told iraq they had no opinion on the matter until he actually does it.
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Jun 22, 2019 03:32
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sorry, maybe I was unclear. a reaction was expected. it's a question of scale and timing. there's not a lot of distance between the iran/iraq war and the gulf war, one of the best ways to continuously harm iranian economic and social recovery is through saddam's military build-up. smashing that to pieces is some real hand to spite your face poo poo. all so some so-called sultan dipshit bush liked could continue to get his dick sucked by prostitutes flown in from russia. pretty sure there was the obvious "it's a sovereign country! you can't!" from the us, which is always good for a laugh.
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Jun 22, 2019 03:40
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jfood posted:in no way good or right, but try wrapping your head around the fact saddam was being completely rational when he invaded kuwait. absolutely inline with known baathist regional aims that had the total support of us foreign policy right up until his tanks crossed the border. there absolutely zero indication in their history that america would react the way it did. diplomatic chiding, sanctions, maybe bomb some off-brand stuff, but loving up his armoured corps, which the us paid for to use as a tool in bleeding iran, literal and material, is honestly kinda unexpected. the story is that Saddam cleared the invasion with America through local channels and was given the go ahead by the americans who were operating under the cold war mindset but Bush was absolutely wrapped up in the understanding that the Soviet Union was completely unable to coherently challenge American interests in the region for the first time and people were hot for a slam dunk foreign policy statement to punctuate the end of the cold war the 1992 dream team mania which built through 1991 up through the 1992 olympic games was another expression of this
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Jun 22, 2019 03:50
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howevermuch i want this to be true it reads as fake as gently caress defending is easy, power projection is insanely expensive and hard
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Jun 22, 2019 04:15
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Over Easy posted:the 1992 dream team mania which built through 1991 up through the 1992 olympic games was another expression of this I like this tie-in. people like to speak in a direct and definitive nature of foreign policy, statements and legislation, but there are all these insidious tendrils of economic cancer that can be spread through a society. there's an absurdity to the arguement that I really appreciate because it is so loving farcical, but how do you seperate something as dumb as an arms race in olympic basketball from direct economic sanctions on countries that don't want to be seen as poo poo ballers? the premise itself is loving asnine on it's face, but anytime a country earns the disfavour of america there are a billion of these dumbshit questions being driven into the fabrics of their society, slowly suffocating it like kudzu. or tearing it apart. actual soft power, the greenback leviathan they tortured in a university of chicago basement until it was a monster they only need partially control as it slowly eats into everything. not really sure what that has to do with anything, other than I like basketball and it's one of the reasons the bad vuvu thread is bad. there's this absolutely ignorant caging of political and economic action to specific days or pieces of papers... which is just childlike, minus the innocence given what it covers over. seriously, I'm over here talking about the deleterious effects that of spiking an olympic team with ringers can have on the economy of... um... one of them slavic countries where dudes name takes up both the top and bottom rocker on a jersey. again, stupid premise, but that's the beast they built. it's in everything. upgunned shitpost has issued a correction as of 05:01 on Jun 22, 2019 |
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Jun 22, 2019 04:59
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A big flaming stink posted:i forget, what awful poo poo did slick willy get up to in foreign policy? tl;dr clinton imposed neoliberal rule on haiti contrary to the democratic wishes of the people who had elected and desired a liberation theology priest who said such things as "I still think capitalism is a mortal sin" in exile
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Jun 22, 2019 06:26
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Raskolnikov38 posted:iran saves humanity by hitting every oil field, pipeline, and terminal with a barrage of ballistic missiles and craters CO2 emissions
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Jun 22, 2019 06:27
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Millions would die from the resulting energy crisis btw
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Jun 22, 2019 10:39
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orange sky posted:Millions would die from the resulting energy crisis btw millions are going to die either way, this way is just the most hilarious
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Jun 22, 2019 13:25
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https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1142223257665282051?s=19 it's pretty worrying that one of the only vocally antineocon figures in the media is a fascist
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Jun 22, 2019 14:16
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Clinton was probably the best at just randomly bombing countries we weren't at war with in "surgical strikes" to enforce American interests over very petty things remember, he was the first truly post-Cold War president. the Soviet Union had fallen, and America was now the one and only sole global superpower. theorists and political scientists were writing about a "end of history" in which liberal Western democracy had triumphed and the US would be benevolent emperor of the world for all time. after decades of competition with a comparably powerful rival, the US was now the unchallenged military power in the world. needless to say, the foreign policy ghouls were super excited that the US could finally bomb whatever they wanted whenever they wanted without having to worry about pissing off the Soviets and potentially starting WW3 so while Bill didn't get us into any major foreign wars like his successors did, he was a pioneer in just randomly blowing up a few buildings in any country that didn't immediately buckle to US pressure it's a way of thinking that's a little harder for us to wrap our heads around now, since the Cold War has faded into history and Bush Jr's failed wars made the US military into a laughingstock
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Jun 22, 2019 14:20
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That was also informed by the Democratic party of the time being traumatized over the accusation that they were "soft on defense"
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Jun 22, 2019 14:24
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https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1142224512013836291 how dare glenn elevate tucker on the only anti-interventionist show in the mainstream media
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Jun 22, 2019 14:27
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loving lol, Tucker Carlson, the kingmaker, savior of the world
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Jun 22, 2019 14:53
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hosed up that Tucker Carlson has done more to earn a Nobel Peace Prize than Obama
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Jun 22, 2019 15:00
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What's MSNBC doing on this? Are they howling for Iranian blood like the rest of the #resistance, or did they just close up shop for good after Mueller failed to oust Trump for them?
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Jun 22, 2019 15:09
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gradenko_2000 posted:hosed up that Tucker Carlson has done more to earn a Nobel Peace Prize than Obama whatever works
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Jun 22, 2019 15:42
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gradenko_2000 posted:hosed up that Tucker Carlson has done more to earn a Nobel Peace Prize than Obama lollll
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Jun 22, 2019 15:45
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I'll still call him fucker crapson
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Jun 22, 2019 15:52
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It's amusing watching brains be broken as Trump is apparently more anti-Iran-war than NPR is at this point Seriously though NPR yesterday was basically openly taunting Trump for calling off airstrikes, saying America needed to make a show of force. Lol at Carlson being a fascist when NPR is making a liberal drums of war circle dream9!bed!! has issued a correction as of 16:04 on Jun 22, 2019 |
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Jun 22, 2019 15:59
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liberals would be calling trump presidential if he bombed iran and iran somehow didnt retaliate with sinking aircraft carriers
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Jun 22, 2019 16:06
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so I'm guessing the drone was in Iranian air space and when the missile hit it it was over intl waters, not that any of that actually matters
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Jun 22, 2019 16:08
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gradenko_2000 posted:hosed up that Tucker Carlson has done more to earn a Nobel Peace Prize than Obama
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Jun 22, 2019 17:50
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The houthis have been hitting airports and desalination plants in saud territory
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Jun 22, 2019 17:50
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mila kunis posted:The houthis have been hitting airports and desalination plants in saud territory hell yeah these are the critical points for bringing down capitalism just about everywhere tbh
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Jun 22, 2019 17:53
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the uae rulers generally stayed out of regional conflicts but got involved in Yemen for ??? reasons. if the houthis hit a major transit hub like dubai airport it'd send shockwaves around the world
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Jun 22, 2019 17:59
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the more freaked out the gulf states get about the houthis, the more likely they will keep pushing the entire region into a giant conflagration with iran drat i love the coming mass death
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Jun 22, 2019 18:14
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Goon Danton posted:What's MSNBC doing on this? Are they howling for Iranian blood like the rest of the #resistance, or did they just close up shop for good after Mueller failed to oust Trump for them? someone i was surprised to find that's anti-intervention with iran is that beady eyed idiot joe scarbourough. he made an interesting point that trump has a pattern of bullying, insulting, threatening, and then pulling back and seeking diplomacy. he did it with north korea and it sort of paid off some what and seems to be doing the same thing with iran, the only problem is that the ayatollah has made it clear he's not interested in meeting with trump the way kim jong un was willing to meet with trump so he may not get the same end result.
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Jun 22, 2019 18:40
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The Yemen war is entirely because mbs is bloodthirsty as gently caress right? Lmao
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Jun 22, 2019 18:43
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Jose posted:The Yemen war is entirely because mbs is bloodthirsty as gently caress right? Lmao well and the houthis overthrew his guy
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Jun 22, 2019 18:45
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Main Paineframe posted:Clinton was probably the best at just randomly bombing countries we weren't at war with in "surgical strikes" to enforce American interests over very petty things It was a really weird time for USFP where there was a belief that everything could be accomplished by just using small numbers of sof and that there was no longer any need for conventional military. That culminated in a couple hundred troops going on a completely batshit insane shooting spree throughout Mogadishu that killed at least 1600 Somalis and while it was framed in a bunch of jingoistic 'they had to stop the warlord's militia' bullshit, it was just an insane rampage through a civilian era firing every weapon non-stop that they had at their disposal Like if you picture it taking place in Paris and realize that the American forces were there kidnapping essentially the equivalents to some of the heads of the Parisian police and then drove around for 8 hours shooting at every police unit they saw, the absolute clusterfuck of the battle for mogadishu makes a bit more sense. It only kind of low key got acknowledged, much less adressed, but ussof have a total cowboy mentality and unit culture that is almost categorically unsuited for anything that doesn't involve use of force The only reason that the somalia fuckups didn't become even bigger news (and it was huge at the time because there was no version of events that didn't sound completely insane and stupid and just utterly out of control) was that it was in the least reported-on corner of the least-reported on continent and involved black people and arabic names. Herstory Begins Now has issued a correction as of 18:51 on Jun 22, 2019 |
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Jun 22, 2019 18:49
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haven’t listened in cuz I’m on my phone. https://mobile.twitter.com/iranfrontpage/status/1142414401431117824
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Jun 22, 2019 19:25
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Herstory Begins Now posted:It was a really weird time for USFP where there was a belief that everything could be accomplished by just using small numbers of sof and that there was no longer any need for conventional military. That culminated in a couple hundred troops going on a completely batshit insane shooting spree throughout Mogadishu that killed at least 1600 Somalis and while it was framed in a bunch of jingoistic 'they had to stop the warlord's militia' bullshit, it was just an insane rampage through a civilian era firing every weapon non-stop that they had at their disposal You know, I'd only ever heard the black hawk down version of events, and never really thought to question it. Where would I go/what would I read to find out more about how things went down?
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Jun 22, 2019 19:28
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poo poo, just reread black hawk down and just read between the lines to start? Like yeah they were fighting militia, but also every city on the planet has some militia types that they'd break out if a loving hostile army comes roaring through their markets and residential areas guns blazing. Tbh it's more reflective probably of general American media portrayal of Arabs and the muslim world and you need to break down that really loving weird lens first. On that note, Reel Bad Arabs: How Hollywood Villifies a people is a very good watch about a century of hollywood portrayals of Arabs (who are essentially synonymous with Muslims in American media) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIXOdCOrgG4
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Jun 22, 2019 19:48
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Herstory Begins Now posted:poo poo, just reread black hawk down and just read between the lines to start? Like yeah they were fighting militia, but also every city on the planet has some militia types that they'd break out if a loving hostile army comes roaring through their markets and residential areas guns blazing. Tbh it's more reflective probably of general American media portrayal of Arabs and the muslim world and you need to break down that really loving weird lens first. there's a line of internal monologue from one of the rangers in that book along the lines of "its like someone declared Kill Americans Day in mogadishu!" and like motherfucker you're the one from out of town! you've done a dozen of these raids and now you are lighting up EVERYONE. jesus christ.
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Jun 22, 2019 19:51
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