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The Question IRL posted:Didn’t Dune become incredibly Islamophobic in later books? His kid, unless I missed something major later on. From God-Emperor on out, the Dune series is kind of more increasingly weird big-picture reckoning with massive time and population scales, the nature of rebirth/immortality, and how to survive against an impossibly large conquering civilization. It should go without saying, don't read the Brian Herbert books, they're dreadful.
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Jun 22, 2019 13:04
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The Question IRL posted:Didn’t Dune become incredibly Islamophobic in later books? Well, they used the term "Jihad" for the first book's protagonist's war to conquer/subdue the rest of the inhabited universe, using his army of super-warriors from the desert planet, who had fanatical loyalty and beliefs in their messiah. So, there may have been a few things that you could call...undertones...but I never got a direct hint of Islamophobia when I read it. ...of course, the last time I read it (the whole series, even) was...the end of 2000. So I was somewhat less informed about certain things way back when, to be sure. I never read any of the later post-Herbert books past the first, which was strictly prequel territory, and I don't remember virtually anything about it, so I can't comment there. The only odd islamophobic-adjacent cultural weirdness that actually stood out to me, really, was the weird tangent of the jeeeeeeeeeeeews and how that one culture totally hadn't changed or died out like all the other ones in the thousands of years since humanity left Earth. It just struck me as...odd? Not even, like, hateful, or anything, just...odd. That was dumb 20 year old me, though, so who knows what dumb...not 20 years old me of today would think if I re-read it now.
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Jun 22, 2019 14:05
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EimiYoshikawa posted:Well, they used the term "Jihad" for the first book's protagonist's war to conquer/subdue the rest of the inhabited universe, using his army of super-warriors from the desert planet, who had fanatical loyalty and beliefs in their messiah. The Fremen were clearly cribbing from muslims what with their desert-living, "jihad", "maud'dib"... but everyone's kind of lovely in the Dune universe and the Fremen are among the least-villainous. I feel like if Herbert was trying to make a political message it was "don't get involved with Afghanistan". Apparently, the Fremen are Sunni+Zen Buddhist.
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Jun 22, 2019 14:25
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I think Jihad was just an orientalist term back in the 20th century.
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Jun 22, 2019 14:35
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It was something that was kind of Edgelord in it’s use in the 80’s/90’s. Vampire the Masquerade had a card game called Vampire the Eternal Struggle. It’s original name was “Jyhad”. It quickly got changed, but I know someone was wearing a “Jyhad” T-Shirt well into the early 2000’s to shock the norms.
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Jun 22, 2019 15:00
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There is a massive DUNE megathread in GBS, just fyi.
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Jun 22, 2019 15:17
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Dune is more cribing Lawrence of Arabia and an orentalist view of Arabs. Stuff we read as Muslim coded post 9/11 didn't have the same connotations when written.
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Jun 22, 2019 15:38
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Dune is more cribing Lawrence of Arabia and an orentalist view of Arabs. Stuff we read as Muslim coded post 9/11 didn't have the same connotations when written. Yeah lets be really clear: Spice is oil. It's the magic substance that makes travel possible and also much of modern civilisation. It is found in a desert where Muslims live. Non-Muslims come to the desert, oppress the Muslims, take the spice. Paul is Laurence of Arabia. Dune is about a lot of things, but ultimately it's 'Imperialism is wrong, Western interference in the Middle East based around securing oil flows is immoral, if the people in the Middle East were able to break free of foreign interference and take control of the oil in their lands then they would become the most powerful people on the planet'.
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Jun 22, 2019 16:11
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Well, Saudi Arabia pretty much controls a large part of the upper level of the United States Government.
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Jun 22, 2019 16:25
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EimiYoshikawa posted:The only odd islamophobic-adjacent cultural weirdness that actually stood out to me, really, was the weird tangent of the jeeeeeeeeeeeews and how that one culture totally hadn't changed or died out like all the other ones in the thousands of years since humanity left Earth. It just struck me as...odd? Not even, like, hateful, or anything, just...odd. That was dumb 20 year old me, though, so who knows what dumb...not 20 years old me of today would think if I re-read it now. There's some other scifibook where Rome never fell and owns the whole Earth and jewish people build a starship to go find their promised land in the cosmos. Jewish identity tends to generally believe that yes they could totally see themselves remaining unchanged in their language, customs, and so on even 100,000 years from now because they've been unchanged since Roman times and the diaspora. So clearly Herbert has some Orthodox jewish friends and they had an influence for him to add that detail in because clearly he thinks its a cool idea to have in the background. I have a D&D setting I've been working on that has a similar premise which I consulted my own jewish friends about it for accuracy and that anecdote sounds similar.
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Jun 22, 2019 16:39
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Fuego Fish posted:In the list of problems with Goblins (and Thunt), the drawing doesn't even make the top three. Unless you count "holy poo poo why is there so much unnecessary body horror" as coming under the umbrella of "drawing", but I'd say it's more to do with awful narrative (the number one problem Goblins has). But you get that you could stop reading it right? I agree with your complaints about Goblins, which is why I stopped reading it after I checked it out a decade ago. Why do some many people give this comic space in their head if they don't like it?
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Jun 22, 2019 16:53
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Nipponophile posted:Wasn't Goblins chat in this thread probatable at some point? What? No. Stop being a giant baby.
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Jun 22, 2019 17:24
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Patrick Spens posted:But you get that you could stop reading it right? I agree with your complaints about Goblins, which is why I stopped reading it after I checked it out a decade ago. Why do some many people give this comic space in their head if they don't like it? Indignation literally gets you high
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Jun 22, 2019 17:30
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Do people seriously actually literally break out in hives whenever goblins gets brought up, I thought it was some sort of running thread joke about overreacting to some other webcomic like every internet person does with every okay to mediocre webcomic.
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Jun 22, 2019 17:31
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I first got into Goblins not long after discovering OotS waaay back in the day, when I was keen to read another webcomic exploring the idea of good and evil being physical forces that tied into but weren't dependent on morality. I got out of Goblins when it spent at least a year (I think multiple) following a couple of side characters as they went through a dungeon that had nothing to do with the rest of the plot. By the time they got out and re-encountered the protagonists, I realised I couldn't remember who any of them were, and I also realised I didn't care, so I dropped it. The body horror wasn't anywhere near as much of a put-off as the fact that it just never seemed to have a bigger plot picture and didn't bring together its ideas about D&D alignment systems into a coherent point, other than just saying D&D alignment systems don't make a lot of sense when you think about them. I think it's just a meme to bring up in this thread (since it explores some of the same ideas as OotS but nowhere near as well) as a troll, but also while the comic is bad, the author doesn't seem to be a bad person at all (as opposed to, say, Tim Buckley) so sometimes you just kinda want to commiserate with the issues she has.
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Jun 22, 2019 17:40
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Well even then, I would take anything about Tim Buckley with a pinch of salt since at this point in time given everything that's happened in the US from out of 4chan I just assume everything on Encyclopedia Dramatica is false.
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Jun 22, 2019 17:54
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Raenir Salazar posted:Do people seriously actually literally break out in hives whenever goblins gets brought up, I thought it was some sort of running thread joke about overreacting to some other webcomic like every internet person does with every okay to mediocre webcomic. I don't know what you're talking about, sir, are you gotta order anything? This is a mcdonalds...
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Jun 22, 2019 18:03
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Motherfucker posted:I don't know what you're talking about, sir, are you gotta order anything? This is a mcdonalds... What are you talking about?
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Jun 22, 2019 18:14
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Motherfucker posted:I don't know what you're talking about, sir, are you gotta order anything? This is a mcdonalds... People keep saying that, and they never give me my fries.
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Jun 22, 2019 18:15
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Goblins
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Jun 22, 2019 19:23
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ClothHat posted:Goblins Nice avatar-post combo. Back to OotS, how many more strips does everyone think are left before the Exarch goes down?
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Jun 22, 2019 22:17
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This is falling comic action, exarch is gonna get chumped by the Power of Family. 10, maybe?
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Jun 22, 2019 22:28
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Not gonna try to count strips, but I'm betting it happens before the end of September.
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Jun 23, 2019 01:27
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Patrick Spens posted:But you get that you could stop reading it right? I agree with your complaints about Goblins, which is why I stopped reading it after I checked it out a decade ago. Why do some many people give this comic space in their head if they don't like it? I don't read it 
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Jun 23, 2019 03:52
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The main thrust of Dune is it’s critiquing “Great Man” figures, both sacred and secular- Paul Atreides, the Messiah, the Kwisatz Hadrach, is just a slave of forces bigger than himself. There’s also stuff in there about politics and ecology and so on.
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Jun 23, 2019 04:44
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Patrick Spens posted:But you get that you could stop reading it right? I agree with your complaints about Goblins, which is why I stopped reading it after I checked it out a decade ago. Why do some many people give this comic space in their head if they don't like it? Because some jackasses keep bringing it up in this thread, causing multi-page derails.
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Jun 23, 2019 13:03
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Nipponophile posted:Because some jackasses keep bringing it up in this thread, causing multi-page derails.
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Jun 23, 2019 14:08
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Oh no, not a derail in the OotS thread! The horror!
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Jun 23, 2019 15:08
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*grumble grumble railroading DMs grumble grumble*
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Jun 23, 2019 15:22
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I like the oots derails in the goblins thread.  So Thunt wasn't her real name right? Is ellipses her new handle or her actual name?
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Jun 23, 2019 16:39
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Darth TNT posted:I like the oots derails in the goblins thread. I think thunt is still her handle and Ellipses is her new name.
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Jun 23, 2019 17:23
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Shwqa posted:I think thunt is still her handle and Ellipses is her new name.
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Jun 23, 2019 17:25
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Tarol Hunt was her old name, which is where Thunt came from. Her new name is now Ellipses Hana [I forget her new last name, if it's actually different].
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Jun 23, 2019 17:26
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Who What Now posted:Oh no, not a derail in the OotS thread! The horror! Yeah, OotS isn't exactly on a three times a week update schedule.  Shwqa posted:I think thunt is still her handle and Ellipses is her new name. Holy poo poo are you kidding me 
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Jun 24, 2019 16:53
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Ellipsis is a pretty name. Good for her. Edit: vvvvvv noted and fixed. Earnestly fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 17:54
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Ellipsis, singular, not Ellipses, plural. Also she took the family name Stephens a while ago, when she married her wife. That was before she realized she was trans. I vaguely remember some blog post about being glad of getting rid of the name "Hunt", though deciding to keep the derived pen name Thunt.
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Jun 24, 2019 18:08
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Is there a trans concepts/issues 101 thread somewhere in A/T or something? Some concepts have come up incidentally here like a person realizing they are trans later in life that are unfamiliar to me and I could stand the education.
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Jun 24, 2019 23:32
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SuperKlaus posted:Is there a trans concepts/issues 101 thread somewhere in A/T or something? Some concepts have come up incidentally here like a person realizing they are trans later in life that are unfamiliar to me and I could stand the education. For some drat reason it's in the Great Race Space. I think it used to be in E/N at one point? https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3821295 There are a lot of trans people on SA right now, I've noticed, and it's a pretty educational thread overall.
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Jun 24, 2019 23:43
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SuperKlaus posted:Is there a trans concepts/issues 101 thread somewhere in A/T or something? Some concepts have come up incidentally here like a person realizing they are trans later in life that are unfamiliar to me and I could stand the education. I think Julia Serano's writing is a good introduction, although some of it speaks to the culture of the 1990s and 2000s in a way that is no longer entirely applicable. Whipping Girl is the classic but she continues to write prolifically online. I also like Parker Molloy, Grace Lavery, and Daniel Ortberg (who formerly ran the humor site The Toast, if that rings a bell) for being lucid and accessible in introducing concepts that can be difficult to grasp at first.
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Jun 25, 2019 00:24
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Wanderer posted:For some drat reason it's in the Great Race Space. I think it used to be in E/N at one point? TGRS has kind of evolved into an open place for discussing all minority issues, as best I can tell.
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Jun 25, 2019 00:33
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