|
Kangxi posted:She's 82. 83 by March 855 I assume then that she's planning on running for President.
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2019 01:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 07:17 |
|
|
If the Al-Andalus LP immediately getting an heir who's the son of satan defined the entire clusterfuck after, I'm excited to see what Gyalyum portends for Tibet.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2019 01:37
|
|
|
I expect this to be a lost golden age Tibetans will look back on as she's essentially the mother of the country.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2019 03:39
|
|
|
MaxieSatan posted:In the broader sense, you could probably simplify that a bit by emphasizing what we've already defined about the LP timeline's Bön - i.e., institutionalized gender equality, mythologizing figures like Gyalyum and her (great?) grandpa, animism and nature worship, etc. There's also lots of room for the religion to develop Seconding this interpretation of New Bon vs Old Bon. Old Bon is an eclectic collection of folk beliefs, New Bon is an institution constructed from those beliefs and codified.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2019 04:00
|
|
|
Veryslightlymad posted:I'm aware that I'm in the minority here, but I think the Warrior Lodges are stupid and game-breaking. I consider them obscenely overpowered, it can make your ruler into a force multiplier that you cannot replicate through any other system. The biggest drawbacks I've had are a few good heirs getting mauled by a beast during one of their minor quests and dying. I'd argue the satanists have more downsides and natural drawbacks to them even if they're completely butt-gently caress insane in terms of what they can do. Also you can turn off Satanists, you can't deactivate the murder hobo lodge to my knowledge.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2019 05:44
|
|
|
Eleven Eleven posted:Seconding this interpretation of New Bon vs Old Bon. Old Bon is an eclectic collection of folk beliefs, New Bon is an institution constructed from those beliefs and codified. Not only that, it is a specific variant of those practices constructed and codified. Compare it to Slavic Paganism for instance, where the deities worshipped and venerated in Rus territory are slightly varied from those in Wendic lands, not to mention those in Serbia. By codifying those rites you declare that a very specific subset of them, and in turn very specific interpretations and variations of the Deities themselves, are correct. This also falls down to things like story, practice, belief and celebrations where things aren't always as straightforward and similar as the games would like us to believe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2019 15:54
|
|
|
There's also the practical consideration that our Tibetan Empire has an enormous land area (just winging it, about half the size of the modern PRC or the United States) but a sparse, spread out, and mostly illiterate population. This also makes the transmission of any 'unified' religious tradition more difficult. It's almost certain that there are nomads or isolated tribes/villages who would continue to practice their belief systems and they would be completely unaware of any political changes in Lhasa.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2019 17:44
|
|
|
Chapter 11: 955 to 958 - Tsenpo Purgyal Palkhorre 'the Gentle', then 'Blood-axe' The spear is plunged into the body of the bird, The blade is thrust into the body of the hare, The power of life is broken, The carcass is thrown away. -Incantation during the funeral procession of a Tsenmo The Tsenmo Gyalyum was the first royal to be given a burial in the Chongye Valley in well over a century. The procession headed south from Lhasa, winding through the Yarlung valley in the shadow of Gyalyum's ancestors, with the copper coffin carried on a wheeled platform and accompanied a train of musicians with horn, cymbal, and drum. Further back, the train was composed of attendants and old soldiers, some weeping and others lacerating themselves in grief. As they approach the burial mound, one built even larger than Songtsen Gampo's, (Palkhorre had made sure of that), animals were sacrificed and the tomb sealed with a massive stone column. As the ceremonies concluded, some of the most loyal servants and soldiers prepared to set up camp around the tomb - they would tend it to their deaths. It was different from the old days when they too would be sacrificed. Not everything is as it was.   Palkhorre held fast to his own beliefs, and would not be easily dislodged from them. His nickname, 'the Gentle', was given to him decades ago for some rare incident of charity which was now long past. He did not share his esteemed aunt's interest in the finer points of legal theory or religious reform -- or arguably any kind of abstract thought -- but he learned much from her about the importance of force.  He held fast to his old worship of the local gods around Lhasa. He was only a child when the great council of Potala took place, but he later grew to resent its implications. He did not trust the organization of a single 'Sacred Hierarchy', as it was soon called. He believed that the concentration of religious power in a single organization, or even the de facto merger of religious head and first minister into a single office under Tse was not in any way a sustainable arrangement. He had heard tales from the older warriors how the Buddhists challenged royal authority and hoarded treasure in their monasteries, and how they overthrew the kings and desecrated their tombs. It was a threat to his authority, and something he could not accept. But he knew he was nearly alone in this, and he had to make some feat to demonstrate his authority.  A more patient man would have waited to strike down an 82-year-old widow, but Palkhorre was not a patient man.  He had more than enough treasure to find his own military campaigns and secure his own glory.   He had engineers and builders, ready to build a massive work, for when he had enough to build another massive structure, some legacy of his own rule. This would be in about eight or nine years. Palkhorre dealt in concrete terms -- in swords, spoils, buildings.  He had several young and ambitious sons, who wanted their own land to farm profits. As he was loath to cede his own land, the plan was to seize fertile, yet lightly defended, land and distribute it to them.    His plans for invasion were modestly delayed by a Buddhist revolt which seized a fort in Tibetan Kosala.  Palkhorre had found his target. The easternmost lands of the Kingdom of Kamarupa, which had paid tribute to Tibet for eighty years. That was not really enough, and Palkhorre felt compelled to seize lands in the Brahmaputra river valley for his own needs -- everything from the lands of the Lhoba peoples to the city of Haruppeswara. While other ministers felt that such a brazen attack would bring the whole of India to defend him, he paid them no mind. Force was enough. Diplomacy would be secondary.  The first armies crossed the border and laid siege to Kamarupanagara. A small force would head out first as bait, and then the main body of troops would attack whatever responded.   The first victory.  While part of the army remained to besiege the Kamarupa capital, another part of the army would be detached and sent to defend Tibet from new allies of the Kamarupas - here, at Janakpur.   The fruits of victory fall into his mouth.  Palkhorre celebrates by taking a mistress half his age.  But things do not go so simply. He attacks another army, but this one is too entrenched outside of Gangtok - and his army is repelled with considerable losses. (OOC: Sorry I missed the screenshot for this one, but we did lose this battle!)  He has no time for affairs of state. He brushes off a letter from the Jin over the conduct of Tibetan merchants.  He only really calms down when more towns fall to his siege.  But disasters and setbacks do not wait for him to be ready. He is informed of a Tangut rebellion in the far north, at the exact opposite side of the empire as his campaigns.   The offensive war must be completed first. He pulls back the entire besieging army and heads west to destroy the petty allied armies. Isolated, they are still weak, but unified they may present a more serious threat.  In the middle of a two-front war, he is sure to comfort his mistress.   While another army from his nobles' reserves forms in the north, he marches the army back east to defeat the massing Kamarupa armies at Goalpara. He has become more skilled at maneuvering through forested and hilly terrain in the process.   He is quick to share the humiliations of his enemies, and the glory of his victories.  While Lenghu has been lost to the Tangut rebels, the nobles' reserve army will instead confront them at Nagormo.  At dinner, he goes on a lengthy diatribe about Buddhists and Hindus, much to the discomfort of those present.  The war in the south is again a matter of destroying the smaller armies before they unify, and to safeguard those cities already taken.  Distant news of another war. No interest to him.    The Tanguts are poorly led and disorganized, and it is trivial to defeat them.   In the rare slower moments of the campaign, really just waiting amid sieges, Palkhorre makes attempts to instruct his youngest son, also named Palkhorre, about their local gods and how belief lay outside the temples. The boy has nothing of it, as he would rather run around outside. The old man gives up for the time being.  Another Kamarupa city falls. The troops cannot restrain themselves, and Palkhorre permits them indulgence.   The allied armies grow smaller and weaker, and Palkhorre sees fit to sacrifice their commanders.   The war is concluded, with his victory. The territory is soon handed over to his son.  Palkhorre has a new, more accurate nickname among the troops. Yet this would only be the start of his ambitions. He grew frustrated that no one in his court or palace had felt ready or motivated to assassinate their own religious head. So his plan was to feast, rest, and find some other approach. He would need to find other true believers, organize them, and make ready to smash apart this 'Sacred Hierarchy' into something more manageable. His plans to overthrow the established religious hierarchy might then have borne fruit,   had he not suddenly developed a serious stomach illness after eating poorly-washed cabbage and undercooked yak meat,  and expired at the age of 56.  The archpriestess Tse presided over two burials of emperors. Kangxi fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jun 24, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 01:55
|
|
|
A cunning, murderous successor, possessed of world-shaking levels of military acumen. Who turned out to be completely inconsequential, which is about par for the course for CK2.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 01:58
|
|
|
Tse's nickname proves increasingly apt.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 02:22
|
|
|
No warrior wants to go out making GBS threads himself to death. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 02:45
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:No warrior wants to go out making GBS threads himself to death. It's more common than you'd think. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 04:00
|
|
|
To be fair he had a long and illustrious career already 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 04:02
|
|
|
Inconsequential doesn't seem accurate. Though the man still was brought low by cabbage and meat. Here lays Palkhorre, he done sharted to death.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 05:21
|
|
|
Welp, that's probably the last gasp for Old Bon right there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 06:30
|
|
|
You think there are any religious schisms in our timeline that were prevented by pooping?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 06:31
|
|
|
Akratic Method posted:You think there are any religious schisms in our timeline that were prevented by pooping? Socrates Scholasticus posted:[On the death of Arius, founder of the Arian heresy that rejected the mainstream conception of the Trinity]
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 09:51
|
|
|
Akratic Method posted:You think there are any religious schisms in our timeline that were prevented by pooping? Not a religious schism, but in my country a government fell because of a deputy pooping during a no-confidence vote.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 10:30
|
|
|
We all know what really happened, a bit of off yak meat doesn't kill strong men. Tse is "lucky" all right. Lucky that no one dares speak of her treachery! This is the second leader she has killed, all stemming from when Gyalyum was going to put her aside for a younger maiden! Tse hexed our greatest leader ever and caused her brain to burst, and then cursed our Tsenmo's chosen heir to ignominiously poo poo himself to death! Down with the Witch of Lhasa! Down with the profane "Sacred Heirarchy!"
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 22:35
|
|
|
Gantolandon posted:Not a religious schism, but in my country a government fell because of a deputy pooping during a no-confidence vote. Please tell me more details about this.  There's making GBS threads yourself to death and then there's making GBS threads yourself straight to death immediately
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2019 01:24
|
|
|
To be fair, we are talking about the Byzantines here; this might be a "he died of severe indigestion that coincidentally happened to have symptoms similar to 16 knife wounds to the back" kind of thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2019 05:53
|
|
|
We're also talking about the founder of one of the greatest heresies in Christianity, so there's definitely an element of divine retribution to the story.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2019 12:13
|
|
|
Akratic Method posted:Please tell me more details about this. In the early nineties, there were no election treshold in Poland, which meant a lot of parties in Sejm (about 29 in 1991). Hanna Suchocka's government was voted in by a coalition of many parties, including one that was created as a joke and named "the Polish Party of Beer Enthusiasts". Most of these parties didn't like each other, as they were different successors of "Solidarity" that couldn't agree where to lead the country and how to divide the spoils of war. One of the deputies, a right-wing "Solidarity" member, started a no-confidence vote on the pretext that the government doesn't fight against the corruption enough. Some minor parties supported it as a mean to pressure the major ones into doing what they want. The motion was expected to fail by one vote, to the point that the Speaker actually announced that it failed, before looking at the display in horror. It turned out that one of the deputies that was supposed to vote against it had heavy diarrhoea and had been in the shitter this entire time. The government was dissolved and the president announced new elections, which were won by the opposition.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2019 18:49
|
|
|
habeasdorkus posted:We're also talking about the founder of one of the greatest heresies in Christianity, so there's definitely an element of divine retribution to the story. The death is first referenced in a letter by Athanasius, who was a devoted anti-Arianist and to some extent the sole voice of opposition to Arianism at times. It had none of the more gruesome embellishments nor the very public location, but the making GBS threads to death was still there to some extent.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2019 19:30
|
|
|
Apropo of nothing, I was thinking how annoying it is that Tanistry is Celt/bloodline only without cheating, because it's a neat system.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2019 20:30
|
|
|
AJ_Impy posted:The death is first referenced in a letter by Athanasius, who was a devoted anti-Arianist and to some extent the sole voice of opposition to Arianism at times. It had none of the more gruesome embellishments nor the very public location, but the making GBS threads to death was still there to some extent. That makes sense, no reason to not gild the lily in later retellings.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 00:57
|
|
|
Veryslightlymad posted:I'm aware that I'm in the minority here, but I think the Warrior Lodges are stupid and game-breaking. Honestly, they aren't any more game-breaking than the Benedictines
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 15:59
|
|
|
Randaconda posted:Honestly, they aren't any more game-breaking than the Benedictines  Actually, it's the Hermetics that are broken
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 16:18
|
|
|
Frankly, pretty much every mechanic in singleplayer is gamebreaking besides Threat, which is absurd in the other direction, and the Plague
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 16:45
|
|
|
e: doubleposted
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 16:45
|
|
|
Chapter 12: 958 to 963 - Tsenmo Purgyal Trinle I now exclude myself from the domain of the living. I shall ride out with you, and I shall cast out all thought of returning. -Archpriestess Palmudro Tse, Address to the Worthies at Jokhang  The eldest child of the Tsenpo Palkhorre, Trinle at the start of her reign did not possess the martial abilities, nor the skill for diplomacy, nor the experience of court intrigue wielded by her two predecessors. She did, however, have some ability for what a later theorist would call "primitive accumulation".   A young and attentive ruler, yet naive and credulous by nature, she believed that if she did whatever the elders and councilors advised, she would lead the realm to greater prosperity.  When a general, a holdover from Palkhorre's armed escort, smashes cups and furniture in a fit of drunken mourning, she pays to replace them.  She follows the established rituals and declares a sensible choice for her patron god - Sangpo Bumtri.  And conspirators plot around her, their motives and actions beyond her knowledge. Many of them are only disaffected nobles who rant after drinking too many cups of raksi, but others are more serious plotters.  She is first filled with ambition and plans to do good. She has heard the many stories of her esteemed ancestor (though they had only met briefly) and vows to follow her example.   She makes some investments in the construction of wheeled carts and chariots, which are still scarce in the highlands.  One day, she is carried aside by a councilman and informed that there was a conspiracy to kill her. The main suspects were those who backed her replacement by one of her siblings -- either through their perceived ability to rule or for crude personal gain. She felt alone, desperate, confused.  She takes immediate and drastic measures against anyone who would stir up disorder in the country, hoping it is enough to make her liked. All that, however, would be cast aside in an instant. The archpriestess Tse, now in her late eighties, has called for a meeting of the clan leaders, the chief priests, the petty kings, and the empress. She has noted the fear, unease, and suspicion which has plagued the remaining nobles, which has corrupted their hearts. She knows they are dissolute and their hearts are filled with anger and resentment. She speaks to them of a greater purpose to lose themselves in. She speaks to them of their strength, clarity of mind, devotion, and from that comes the power to overturn the world. Faith is necessary, even if you do not know if the cause will be won in your lifetime or your childrens' lives or their childrens' lives, faith and devotion are of the utmost importance.  There would be another holy war.   The Pala Dynasty of Bengal was still the greatest Buddhist kingdom in that part of the world. Their Maharaja, Virajdendranarayan II, was a soft-spoken, bookish leader with no real ability in warfare. His master, however, Saugandeva 'the Just' of the Pratiharas, was a much more forbidding opponent. Though he had lost his nose and much of his palate after being kicked in the face by a horse, he was still a capable and formidable figure - so we have heard. In any case, our target was the lands of Bihar, where the Buddha received enlightenment and where Mahavira was born.  The Empress feels she has no choice but to join. It is her duty. The Archpriestess' has persuaded her utterly.  She does not lead the army at the front, as her predecessors have done. But it assembles and moves towards the Pala forces at Kotivarsha.   That army flees to the west, and the Tibetans follow, overtaking them at in Mithila.  The battle is not overwhelming or decisive, but it is a victory.   The Tibetan forces pursue the Pala army back east, where it has crossed the Ganges and linked up with allied forces; the Tibetans cross the Ganges further east, near Gauda.   One of the armies is caught at Mudgagiri. In an ordinary pursuing action, one of Trinle's commanders foolishly rushed ahead to charge the enemy, but was surrounded and was struck by a dozen arrows.  Though untutored in battle, Trinle takes his place.  At this time, it appears the Jin dynasty has recovered from their long civil wars and Tang-loyalist rebellions. They have sent armies to subdue some of the nomadic tribes to Tibet's distant north.    With the advanced armies defeated, Mudgagiri soon falls. Neighboring towns follow suit.   After this, they move west to relieve an allied army that is falling to pieces near Pataliputra. Trinle moves forward as they retreat, and then west to Sasaram.  That detachment is soon beaten.  No time to rest, however -- Trinle is informed that several armies at the waterfalls of Rajrappa, including those from Bhutan, are now under threat from a massive Pratihara army.  News from back home. Trine has no time or people to spare - punish a few usual suspects and inform the Jin.   The battle has already started without her. But she is not too late.  A decisive victory. Half of their elephants were lost, and much of their army besides.  But now the army must retreat north again to rescue its holdings.  While this was going on, Jain rebels in Tibetan Kosala rose up in violent rebellion. Trinle decides not to send troops against them, believing the war can be won quickly.  That smaller army is defeated.  Trinle receives word that the Jin armies have crushed the nomads they were sent to destroy.  The Buddhists also rise in revolt in Yarkand in the Tarim Basin. Again, Trinle defers, as she has been assured they were too weak to cause much harm in the short term.  The army marches further south to Mallabhum,  And defeats another army there.  Yet while the holy war appears to progress, the situation deteriorates at home. The fortresses and guard towers in the Pamir Mountains are now reporting masses of rebel Buddhists in the countryside, led by rebellious lamas.  The war has taken on an immediate, desperate, sanctified quality. The archpriestess has led a cavalry charge and has overran an enemy commander herself. This is truly a time of miracles.      The war has now moved into a phase of sieges, where cities fall one by one. The Tibetans move further south, and hope they can press the Pala into a surrender.  It is enough. The Bengalis cede all of the lands in Bihar, from Ramagrama to the southern forests.  However, the Tibetans cannot really say the land is truly pacified. They are now rulers of a vast population which does not share their beliefs and resents their conquest. A large chunk of land has been conquered by a Turkic warlord from the northern steppes, and so far outside of Tibetan and Pala control. His forces raid both Tibetans and Bengalis with impunity. In an act of sacrilege, he rules from Gaya, where Rama, accompanied by Sita and Lakshmana, made offerings of pind-daan to his father, and where the Buddha reached enlightenment.  The rebellions which have been ignored in the years of war have festered, and parts of the countryside in the far north and in Kosala are ravaged by war.  While local forces are enough to finally suppress the Jains in Kosala,  It takes several long months of an agonizing forced march for the main body of the Tibetan army. Much of the southern part of the Tarim Basin was lost, and the army marched through hostile territory to defeat the Buddhists near Cherchen.  The Tsenmo appoints her younger sister to rule Bihar. That, she thinks, is someone she can trust. The great holy war was over. But the peace was not yet won.  
Kangxi fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Aug 27, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 05:04
|
|
|
The 90-year-old lesbian archpriestess just beat a commander to death in personal combat in the middle of a battle. What is this game. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 06:14
|
|
|
megane posted:The 90-year-old lesbian archpriestess just beat a commander to death in personal combat in the middle of a battle. What is this game. Art.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 07:09
|
|
|
Tse has been hitting the bottle hard since her wife died
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 12:32
|
|
|
farraday posted:Tse has been hitting the bottle hard since her wife died Tse has been hitting the infidel hard since her wife died 
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 12:56
|
|
|
Tse probably channeled more than a bit of her wife.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 14:29
|
|
|
Calling it now - Tsenmo is going to gain the Stressed trait.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 15:34
|
|
|
megane posted:The 90-year-old lesbian archpriestess just beat a commander to death in personal combat in the middle of a battle. What is this game. Crusader Kings II: A Magical Place
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 22:23
|
|
|
megane posted:The 90-year-old lesbian archpriestess just beat a commander to death in personal combat in the middle of a battle. What is this game. Welcome to Crusader Kings 2. You get that sorta thing a lot. Hell, in one of my run-throughs one of my Irish Kings gained the “Valiant Knight” bloodline even though he was the leader of Lucifer’s Own and had personally led the downfall of Catholicism AND had his Andalusian wife (who was brainwashed into joining the Satanic cult) bear the Spawn of Satan. Granted most of my runs are done on Shattered Worlds with custom characters anyway for maximum hilarity, so YMMV.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2019 23:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 07:17 |
|
|
I hope Tse lives to 100, and then vanishes in a puff of smoke with echoing, evil laughter. She's a demon in a woman's skin! She will kill our young leader, don't you dare doubt it!
|
|
#
?
Jun 28, 2019 01:05
|
|