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Marine traffic is never going to have to pay for its carbon emissions because doing so would possibly help bring about the collapse the capitalist system our society relies upon and no politician is willing to do. Ive been thinking about what it's going to take to really save us from ourselves from ourselves and I doubt too many of us are willing to do it. Do you think even the average environmentally conscious person is going to give up having 'nice' looking things? Take bicycles for instance. They're billed as being incredibly environmentally friendly; low footprint, zero emissions, healthy. This is relatively true but we as a society are just so loving obsessed with form that everything comes shipped wrapped in sometimes four layers of plastic, with extremely time and energy consuming paint jobs and fancy looking but less durable components. All this just so our stuff look pretty. And of course all of it comes with that thin layer of plastic on each glossy surface, just to make sure it stays shiny until it's taken out of the box. This extends to basically everything we consume. Our future at this point is going to be one of two things; either we all give up a lot, including the level of variety quantity and asthetic qualities of our stuff, or once our access to these goods becomes threatened, our neoliberal economic system turning back into essentially colonial slavery, because in the end everything is secondary to making sure that we can get a pretty paint job with fancy matching bar tape on our next Cervelo.
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Jun 23, 2019 17:17
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Everyone says they want to support sociallly concious behaviour, until it's mildly inconvenient to them or costs more. The whole fuckin' world is a tragedy of the commons. No one responds to large scale social problems unless they directly permeate near every part of their life, and no change that involves someone making less money ever happens unless you drag a a possibly large group of people along with it while they kick and scream, which is typically a process that requires enforcable legislation. I'm not an optimist, I guess. I believe in the humanity of people as individuals, but social and economic structures deincentivize collective action in ways that are incredibly difficult to overcome. Occasionally it actually does happen, but goddamn is it hard work and also it's usually a couple decades late after the problem was apparent. CRISPYBABY fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 17:40
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I think it's more like the opposite: this is a Tragedy of Enclosure.
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Jun 23, 2019 17:52
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When you think about it, climate change is the ultimate accelerationism. Maybe this was a good time to be born after all!
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Jun 23, 2019 17:56
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Rime posted:Whoops! Misread the graph yesterday. Cheers on the correction. My dude. How are you this involved in climate change action without even knowing what canada's emissions are or why it's ridiculous that our military could produce 550 Mt of emissions? I don't think our military if you put it all together even weighs 550 Mt.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:00
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EvilJoven posted:Marine traffic is never going to have to pay for its carbon emissions because doing so would possibly help bring about the collapse the capitalist system our society relies upon and no politician is willing to do. To be fair this pathological fixation is very, very recent and didn't exist even 25 years ago. It's a product of media creating an unprecedentedly narcissistic society and would reverse in a similar time frame if we enforced regulation on both the causes and the contributing factors. Bicycles are a good point, Canada had a robust and profitable domestic bicycle industry back when we had brutal import tarrifs on both components and assembled product. When these were removed in the early 2000's, our domestic brands either offshored production or were acquired by international conglomerates. Very few still manufacture here, and they have been forced to pursue the high-end cycling sector due to the market being swamped by cheap garbage. A fine example of how federally driven deregulation and globalization of our markets has only harmed Canadians at the expense of the international investor class. Postess with the Mostest posted:My dude. How are you this involved in climate change action without even knowing what canada's emissions are or why it's ridiculous that our military could produce 550 Mt of emissions? I don't think our military if you put it all together even weighs 550 Mt. After 8 hours in an information firehose, mistaking a k for an m happens. 
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Jun 23, 2019 18:05
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I mean, we've known about Global Warming for a long time. It kept getting put aside, put aside for decorum sake. Now we can't be delicate about it and have to fight, and even though people die, lose homes, and watch as our environment self immolates. It's still a fight. Every goddamn day people are out there fighting AGAINST that change. It's too expensive, I don't give a poo poo. It'll make gas more expensive but not actually prohibitively expensive, though they act like it will. I want change, but as it stands apparently change is too much to ask for, and we need to be taught that by Robber Barons of the Regressive Party of Canada. Climate Change debate? Just put in ear plugs. Don't worry that a solid portion of your own province burned the year before and will again. That's not a concern, the money here and now is a concern. And jobs, but not good paying jobs, just cheap private sector jobs, gubmint jobs are theft apparently. We've had certain plastics that have a biodegradable comparable, but oh bloo-bloo it doesn't look nice or dye easily. Functionally the same? yes. Pretty? not enough to change to a biodegradable comparable. (see, Lego refuses to let go of plastics because the wheat based version doesn't have dye adhere enough or become shiny enough) It's this poo poo that makes me just believe we aren't capable of actually getting the change that needs to happen in time. Even many other countries governments are saying that they will be neutral by 2050. FIFTY. That's so goddamn far away, like I'll be a goddamn Senior Citizen, and it's supposed to be inspiring. We either wait for people to die to allow a generational shift to occur, and thus while waiting for those people to die, many others will die in the meantime because of the waiting. Or we do the right thing and make the goddamn changes. Ended up being more or a rant than I expected. Syfe fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 18:11
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Rime posted:After 8 hours in an information firehose, mistaking a k for an m happens. Yeah, like the best buy guy selling me a laptop has 8tb of ram, I'm going to smile and nod and find another source of information. You're just a bit zealoty about it, like your thing started with "did you know" the canadian military emits almost as much as the entire country. it's like the guy saying jesus fed thousands when he just snuck in some snacks and a bottle of wine.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:38
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Rime posted:After 8 hours in an information firehose, mistaking a k for an m happens. You're so hyper-focused on being a cynical rear end in a top hat that you're losing perspective for the cause. You fabricated criticism for the Green New Deal because you never bothered to read the website. You're now making up facts because they sound bad. Hell, you even got ran out of the C-spam climate change thread because you were being a liberal wiener. You need to take a loving breather. Log-off. It sounds like you're involved with activism, good. Stick with that for a while. But make sure you spend time listening and learning. You're not the smartest person in the room. Get your loving ego in check.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:39
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Kindest Forums User posted:You're so hyper-focused on being a cynical rear end in a top hat that you're losing perspective for the cause. You fabricated criticism for the Green New Deal because you never bothered to read the website. You're now making up facts because they sound bad. Hell, you even got ran out of the C-spam climate change thread because you were being a liberal wiener. Jeeze, how do you go about your day without ever looking in a mirror?
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Jun 23, 2019 18:44
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All y'all need to keep on mind that a lot of us are venting when we post here, we needn't take every word/phrase of hyperbole literally
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Jun 23, 2019 18:50
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Rime posted:Jeeze, how do you go about your day without ever looking in a mirror? I'm naturally beautiful. No effort required.
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Jun 23, 2019 18:53
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I went to an H&M the other day to grab some summer clothes and I was reminded of how shockingly cheap "fast fashion" clothes can be. Buying a t-shirt, even a cheaply made one, for less than $10 just seems absurd. The cotton had to be grown in a completely different climate by either profoundly exploited workers in Africa or India or extremely capital intensive farms in the American south and then transported, most likey to somewhere in South America or Southeast Asia, where elaborate and energy intensive (one of the reasons Indonesia is such a popular manufacturing centre for garments is the cheapness of electricity) machines attended by low wage workers spin the yarn into fabric, and then the completed shirts had to be shipped back around the world to end up in a warehouse before being dispatched to the store where I bought it. This process is even crazier when you consider that 'fast fashion' trends have compressed the period between first designing an item of clothing and it getting sold at the store can be as little as a few months. According to a breakdown of the costs of a printed T-shirt that retailed for 12 USD on NPR the amount of cotton and dye plus the labour and capital required to spin the yarn, cut sew and knit the fabric and print a design works out to somewhere in the range of $3-$7 dollars. That is stunningly cheap, even with all the mark ups added on. If you go back $100 then a (very simplistic quick and dirty) estimate for the value of $12 USD in 2019 prices would be more than $300 at minimum. Obviously that comparison is a very tentative one based on pretty much just reverse engineering annual inflation but it gives you a sense of how expensive clothing was even well after the industrial revolution. Go back a few decades before that and most households sewed their own clothes (though they might buy premade patterns). And go back to before the industrial revolution to when a single shirt could take half a day or longer to make and you'll get estimates that a single shirt would have cost the equivalent of several thousand dollars (though the economy was organized so differently this comparison is of limited use). It's just amazing to think of the complexity and social organization required to create world where an hours labour at the minimum wage can buy you a shirt. Relatively speaking it's not much more than that to buy dresses, pants, jackets, etc. Items that would have required weeks of labour at an average wage to purchase can now be acquired at trivial expense and even comparatively low income households have the ability to shop and express themselves via fashion in ways that would have been unheard of in the recent past. These extremely affordable clothes then merge with the culture industry to create a world where people regularly go shopping just to make themselves feel good. I think it would be genuinely traumatic for a lot of people to lose the narcotic release of consumer culture. I really don't know what would happen to our society and culture if or when the wheels come off the global economic system. We don't just use modern media and politics to construct our sense of self - many North Americans also rely on our incredibly cheap consumer economy to regulate their emotions and inner lives. I don't know how our society would function without those forms of escape.
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Jun 23, 2019 19:03
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There are a lot of other fun facts, like that our grocery stores are stocked with food prepared by prisoners on the other side of the world.
xtal fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jun 23, 2019 |
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Jun 23, 2019 20:38
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xtal posted:There are a lot of other fun facts, like that our grocery stores are stocked with food prepared by prisoners on the other side of the world. Well dont just lead with the tease.
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Jun 23, 2019 21:03
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Yeah, like the best buy guy selling me a laptop has 8tb of ram, I'm going to smile and nod and find another source of information. You're just a bit zealoty about it, like your thing started with "did you know" the canadian military emits almost as much as the entire country. it's like the guy saying jesus fed thousands when he just snuck in some snacks and a bottle of wine. please give me 8 terabytes of the rams, thank you
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Jun 23, 2019 21:10
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Arivia posted:please give me 8 terabytes of the rams, thank you Kinda like when you hear some neocon dumbass spout "Actually the PRIUS is the one that is damaging the environment more !"
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Jun 23, 2019 21:17
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The metric system has failed us. 
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Jun 23, 2019 21:34
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Helsing posted:I went to an H&M the other day to grab some summer clothes holy frig I don't even shop at places as bad a h&m or the gap, what're you doing, you may as well flog the workers yourself. I thought leftists all shopped at goodwill and stuff like macklemore. at least kirkland signature fashion has a robust human rights policy. You're getting flanked on the left by suburbanites who aren't even trying.
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Jun 23, 2019 22:12
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Postess with the Mostest posted:holy frig I don't even shop at places as bad a h&m or the gap, what're you doing, you may as well flog the workers yourself. I thought leftists all shopped at goodwill and stuff like macklemore. at least kirkland signature fashion has a robust human rights policy. You're getting flanked on the left by suburbanites who aren't even trying. Pretty sure a $10 Costco dress shirt isn't made by well-paid labor. Also nobody wants to dress like grandpa.
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Jun 23, 2019 23:44
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Costco where tapered cuts aren’t a thing
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Jun 24, 2019 01:04
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The military emitting a lot more that other federal departments is also really unsurprising in light of the fact that DND is just about the only part of the federal government that actually exists.
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Jun 24, 2019 02:08
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So Brooke Lynn Hytes is one of the biggest things in drag right now and she was with Trudeau today. This comment by willam loving kills me. :lol;   “Thought it was some twink” 
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Jun 24, 2019 03:01
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EvidenceBasedQuack posted:Pretty sure a $10 Costco dress shirt isn't made by well-paid labor. Also nobody wants to dress like grandpa. a) techbros love grandpa style, short sleeve plaid all day, b) maybe not well paid but obey the laws of the country it's made in at least, c) as if you idiots don't price in the externalities of buying new clothes shipped halfway across the world when you see a 3$ t-shirt at the gap. Go to the value village, lots of good shirts. Zero emissions. Some odor emissions but that washes out quick. Terrible. I really do think democracy and capitalism go hand in hand, when you vote for that poo poo with your dollars, I shake my head.
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Jun 24, 2019 04:12
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Postess with the Mostest posted:a) techbros love grandpa style, short sleeve plaid all day, b) maybe not well paid but obey the laws of the country it's made in at least, c) as if you idiots don't price in the externalities of buying new clothes shipped halfway across the world when you see a 3$ t-shirt at the gap. Go to the value village, lots of good shirts. Zero emissions. Some odor emissions but that washes out quick. Terrible. I really do think democracy and capitalism go hand in hand, when you vote for that poo poo with your dollars, I shake my head. I'm not sure I like the ironic woke Postess. Can you just go back to be the unrepentant conservative shitlord you've always been? I hate having to keep track who is being genuine and who is being facetious in this thread.
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Jun 24, 2019 04:54
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Unironically buy your clothes at a not-for-profit thrift store.
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Jun 24, 2019 05:09
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Drewjitsu posted:I'm not sure I like the ironic woke Postess. Can you just go back to be the unrepentant conservative shitlord you've always been? I hate having to keep track who is being genuine and who is being facetious in this thread. I don't feel like I'm being inconsistent. I love capitalism. I love democracy. Don't spend money on things you wouldn't vote for. I'm counting on the tip of the leftist spear to guide the planet in the right direction so I can focus on increasing GDP but if they're shopping at H&M and mistaking Ks for Ms, it makes me think I may need to do it myself which is going to interfere with weekend boating time so you can see how that would be aggravating.
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Jun 24, 2019 05:14
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Postess with the Mostest posted:I don't feel like I'm being inconsistent. I love capitalism. I love democracy. Don't spend money on things you wouldn't vote for. I'm counting on the tip of the leftist spear to guide the planet in the right direction so I can focus on increasing GDP but if they're shopping at H&M and mistaking Ks for Ms, it makes me think I may need to do it myself which is going to interfere with weekend boating time so you can see how that would be aggravating. You're not as clever, funny, or important as you think you are. At the end of the game, the king and the pawns go back into the same box, friend.
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Jun 24, 2019 05:39
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Drewjitsu posted:You're not as clever, funny, or important as you think you are. At the end of the game, the king and the pawns go back into the same box, friend. Are you challenging me to chess?
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Jun 24, 2019 05:58
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Are you challenging me to chess? 
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Jun 24, 2019 06:02
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Drewjitsu posted:You're not as clever, funny, or important as you think you are. Same. Lets try to be slightly less assholey in this thread.
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Jun 24, 2019 13:44
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Postess with the Mostest posted:holy frig I don't even shop at places as bad a h&m or the gap, what're you doing, you may as well flog the workers yourself. I thought leftists all shopped at goodwill and stuff like macklemore. at least kirkland signature fashion has a robust human rights policy. You're getting flanked on the left by suburbanites who aren't even trying. 
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Jun 24, 2019 13:59
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https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/616316157109256192
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Jun 24, 2019 14:32
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Cooper is now suing the hill times for defamation And of course Scheer is supporting him.
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Jun 24, 2019 15:13
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So uh, he's suing them for saying that he quoted the Christchurch shooter, on the record. Which he both admits he did, and was recorded (and expunged), but then also claims he did not do?
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Jun 24, 2019 15:26
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quote:The letter from Mr. Cooper’s lawyers said the MP also did not read from the Christchurch shooter’s manifesto during the meeting, but instead was quoting from an American political website. No you see it was actually someone else reading from Mein Kampf so therefore
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Jun 24, 2019 15:30
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That is mind-blowingly stupid, even by the standards of these junior debate club idiots.
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Jun 24, 2019 15:38
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This is the most vicious slander from the Liberal Party of Canada against Mr. Cooper for doing nothing more than uttering an unrelated series of words just because he liked how they sounded. That they happened to be the same as those of Mr. Tarrant is an unfortunate coincidence, to be sure, but we note that the accusation against Mr. Cooper was not for plagiarism.
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Jun 24, 2019 15:49
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In our lives we have all said the words "pass the salt" and "let's get pizza" and "hello", therefore we have all quoted the Christchurch shooter and people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. - Mr. Cooper's lawyers
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Jun 24, 2019 17:04
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infernal machines posted:So uh, he's suing them for saying that he quoted the Christchurch shooter, on the record. Which he both admits he did, and was recorded (and expunged), but then also claims he did not do?
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Jun 24, 2019 17:50
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