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skasion posted:That makes me wonder — does the emperor actually know that there’s 10 million Fremen, or did the Kyneses manage to keep that from him? The bit where Fenring nearly loses his poo poo when Baron H naively suggests turning Arrakis into a prison planet makes me feel like Fenring at least has some sense that the Fremen could rival the Sardaukar. If Fenring knows it (and after all he lived there) then surely Shaddam must know it. But if Shaddam knew the makings of an army to rival his own were on Arrakis, it was insanely foolhardy of him to send Leto there, even with the expectation of quickly killing him. The Fremen kept it from them by bribing the poo poo out of the guild to prevent overflights. Fenring's warning is due to the Emperor not wanting the process by which Saurdaukar are reproduced to be analyzed and duplicated.
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Jun 24, 2019 22:27
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skasion posted:That makes me wonder — does the emperor actually know that there’s 10 million Fremen, or did the Kyneses manage to keep that from him? The bit where Fenring nearly loses his poo poo when Baron H naively suggests turning Arrakis into a prison planet makes me feel like Fenring at least has some sense that the Fremen could rival the Sardaukar. If Fenring knows it (and after all he lived there) then surely Shaddam must know it. But if Shaddam knew the makings of an army to rival his own were on Arrakis, it was insanely foolhardy of him to send Leto there, even with the expectation of quickly killing him. that scene is after the coup, during which time the sardaukar disguised as harkonnen troops tussled with fremen and realized, holy poo poo, they're incredible fighters, and duh, life on this well-known hell-planet must be as bad as on our secret one so they know that the fremen are being severely underestimated in that respect, which might make them suspect any number of other things, but i think we are supposed to believe that no one suspects that the fremen are a rival civilization
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Jun 24, 2019 22:27
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I think prevailing wisdom is that the Fremen are a handful of backwards desert dwelling cavemen. they don't know that there are millions of them or that they have high tech equipment and a bunch of underground weapons factories.
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Jun 24, 2019 22:31
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It’s definitely not common knowledge, but some people do know it. The Harkonnens don’t, but Thufir and the other important Atreides retainers are apparently aware that there’s more to the Fremen than received wisdom suggests before the move to Arrakis is actually made — in fact they’re all down to actively court the Fremen as allies from the moment they arrive. I have a hard time seeing why they would suspect that if Shaddam doesn’t though. Maybe Thufir’s sources are just really good.Doc Hawkins posted:that scene is after the coup Good point.
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Jun 24, 2019 22:36
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I'm re-reading the series and am only up to Dune Messiah so maybe this gets answered later, but the last time I read through the books I never really got a handle on what Paul's Jihad is all about. They're murdering people by the billions and rendering planets uninhabitable, but...to what end? My guess is these planets refused to accept Paul as the emperor and/or recognize him as a god, though I don't remember if any character ever states that outright. When Paul mulls it over in Dune, I think he only references it as this thing that is going to happen no matter what.
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Jun 24, 2019 22:37
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The Fremen are mostly considered savages. That's why the Emperor largely dismisses them. They don't kick up too much poo poo - or sand - in the villages and towns of Arrakis so Imperial citizenry are encouraged to ignore them. Probably they just got used to thinking of them as dumb barbarians and the Fremen kept a low profile so no one would nose into their affairs. When the Sardaukar get into it with the Fremen, they're usually taken by surprise.Communist Walrus posted:I'm re-reading the series and am only up to Dune Messiah so maybe this gets answered later, but the last time I read through the books I never really got a handle on what Paul's Jihad is all about. They're murdering people by the billions and rendering planets uninhabitable, but...to what end? My guess is these planets refused to accept Paul as the emperor and/or recognize him as a god, though I don't remember if any character ever states that outright. When Paul mulls it over in Dune, I think he only references it as this thing that is going to happen no matter what. Total centralized power (esp. in the hands of one figure) = bad. That's pretty much the lesson of the Golden Path. phasmid fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 22:38
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Phanatic posted:The Fremen kept it from them by bribing the poo poo out of the guild to prevent overflights. Fenring's warning is due to the Emperor not wanting the process by which Saurdaukar are reproduced to be analyzed and duplicated. Yeah they paid off the Guild in spice to not track them with the spy satellite system. Which meant the real population and also military capability were underestimated by the Emperor
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Jun 24, 2019 22:38
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Communist Walrus posted:I'm re-reading the series and am only up to Dune Messiah so maybe this gets answered later, but the last time I read through the books I never really got a handle on what Paul's Jihad is all about. They're murdering people by the billions and rendering planets uninhabitable, but...to what end? My guess is these planets refused to accept Paul as the emperor and/or recognize him as a god, though I don't remember if any character ever states that outright. When Paul mulls it over in Dune, I think he only references it as this thing that is going to happen no matter what. Ostensibly to spread veneration of Muad’dib everywhere, but also because a lot of the Fremen got a taste for killing and raping. It pretty much all gets explained presciently the first time Paul starts tripping balls in the desert quote:He had seen a warrior religion there, a fire spreading across the universe with the Atreides green and black banner waving at the head of fanatic legions drunk on spice liquor. Gurney Halleck and a few others of his father’s men—a pitiful few—were among them, all marked by the hawk symbol from the shrine of his father’s skull. skasion fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 22:52
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etalian posted:Yeah they paid off the Guild in spice to not track them with the spy satellite system. Wouldn’t (or at least shouldn’t) the Emperor have had spies in the Spacing Guild to know about the bribes or at least that something didn’t smell right?
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Jun 24, 2019 23:05
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The Spacing Guild has all the leverage, if they decide not to play ball with the emperor he’s emperor of exactly one planet.
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Jun 24, 2019 23:08
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whydirt posted:Wouldn’t (or at least shouldn’t) the Emperor have had spies in the Spacing Guild to know about the bribes or at least that something didn’t smell right?
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Jun 24, 2019 23:09
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Espionage is v tricky in Dune. All the major powers have really long histories so it's all feint-counterfeint. In the encyclopedia (pseudo canon) the reason the Tleilaxu are so mysterious is that they had a single planetary hegemony for thousands of years before the Guild discovered them. Then the BG wanted to send it's spies in and quickly realized it was impossible.
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Jun 24, 2019 23:16
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skasion posted:It’s definitely not common knowledge, but some people do know it. The Harkonnens don’t, but Thufir and the other important Atreides retainers are apparently aware that there’s more to the Fremen than received wisdom suggests before the move to Arrakis is actually made — in fact they’re all down to actively court the Fremen as allies from the moment they arrive. I have a hard time seeing why they would suspect that if Shaddam doesn’t though. Maybe Thufir’s sources are just really good. I think it's also an Atreides thing: they want to respect the people who live on their planet, they would not dismiss them as rabble/vermin the way the harkonnen did.
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Jun 25, 2019 00:01
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Doc Hawkins posted:I think it's also an Atreides thing: they want to respect the people who live on their planet, they would not dismiss them as rabble/vermin the way the harkonnen did. there's that cool scene where The Beast Rabban is patiently trying to explain to the Baron that the Fremen are actually decent fighters and surprisingly numerous, and the Baron just dismisses all this obvious nonsense from the dumbest member of the family.
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Jun 25, 2019 00:34
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Yeah I think the big surprise was more "there's like fifty million of them, not like two hundred thousand."
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Jun 25, 2019 02:19
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Jun 25, 2019 03:56
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Ten leeeeeegions of sarducar
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Jun 25, 2019 08:12
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Stillsuits are the most flattering
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Jun 26, 2019 02:35
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free hubcaps fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jun 26, 2019 |
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Jun 26, 2019 02:39
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Jun 26, 2019 04:42
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Wasn’t he also Gurney the Butch
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Jun 26, 2019 04:49
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Jun 26, 2019 04:55
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I forget. Has the new TV series been brought up yet?
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Jun 26, 2019 08:03
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Jun 26, 2019 08:49
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D. Ebdrup posted:I forget. Has the new TV series been brought up yet? I hope this is not based on "Sisterhood of Dune" by @DuneAuthor
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Jun 26, 2019 08:52
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Temaukel posted:I hope this is not based on "Sisterhood of Dune" by @DuneAuthor I guarantee you it is. Probably the compromise Villanueve had to make to get final cut, basically help jumpstart another @DuneAuthor dream project.
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Jun 26, 2019 08:56
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I demand that they make an HBO high budget long series adaptation of The Assassination of Billy Jeeling.
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Jun 26, 2019 08:58
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Temaukel posted:I demand that they make an HBO high budget long series adaptation of The Assassination of Billy Jeeling. Is there even an actor black enough? We’re talking black as if there was no intermingling with lighter skinned races in his ancestry.
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Jun 26, 2019 09:58
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role requirements: -male age 25-35 -Black -Like, really black -No family history of miscegenation -big dong
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Jun 26, 2019 11:46
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Jun 26, 2019 11:49
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When God hath ordained a goon to post in a particular place, He causeth that goon's wants to direct him to that place.
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Jun 26, 2019 11:54
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I recommended dune to some co-workers but I haven’t read in 10 years at least so rereading to make sure I didn’t recommend anything too bad. Is the baron the only gay/bi character in these (six) books?
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Jun 26, 2019 15:18
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Fritzler posted:I recommended dune to some co-workers but I haven’t read in 10 years at least so rereading to make sure I didn’t recommend anything too bad. There's literally an army of them in God-Emperor.
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Jun 26, 2019 15:19
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Ghost Leviathan posted:There's literally an army of them in God-Emperor. They’re really just fish-lip-stick lesbian 
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Jun 26, 2019 15:22
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Sure would be bad if people were gay
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Jun 26, 2019 15:27
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Fritzler posted:I recommended dune to some co-workers but I haven’t read in 10 years at least so rereading to make sure I didn’t recommend anything too bad. if they like rear end and scat play they should be mostly fine Anne Frank Funk fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jun 26, 2019 |
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Jun 26, 2019 15:28
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*liet-kynes inner monologuishly*]: i have to admit, against my better judgement, i like this duke
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Jun 26, 2019 15:32
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The loveliest Feyd.
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Jun 26, 2019 15:58
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Fritzler posted:I recommended dune to some co-workers but I haven’t read in 10 years at least so rereading to make sure I didn’t recommend anything too bad. It's all a bit  and Heretics and Chapterhouse feature what's effectively child rape no matter how you dress it up.
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Jun 26, 2019 16:40
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only
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C'mon Feyd. Nobody is buying the hairpiece.
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Jun 26, 2019 18:23
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