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Are you in California? I just recently learned it's now the law that if you ask for a range after the first interview, they have to give it to you.
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Jun 11, 2019 23:04
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Had a phone screen for a new position today, HR rep asked me for my salary requirements and I deflected it into 10-15 minutes of my own (non-salary) questions about the role. HR came back around and I must have worn her down because her "we won't pay you any less than this" number was about 10% higher than what I would have asked for the role  Small victories in salary negotiation. Now to keep deflecting it through the rest of the interview process...
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Jun 12, 2019 20:46
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C-Euro posted:Had a phone screen for a new position today, HR rep asked me for my salary requirements and I deflected it into 10-15 minutes of my own (non-salary) questions about the role. HR came back around and I must have worn her down because her "we won't pay you any less than this" number was about 10% higher than what I would have asked for the role Well done! That's the hardest part. Just keep it up and wait for the offer. There's always something more to offer. "I'd like to know everything about the available benefits before I can appropriately assess salary" or "I will consider all reasonable offers" or "I need to confer with my family " (keep the family bit vague, they aren't allowed to ask about stuff like marital status) are all lines I've used to good effect.
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Jun 12, 2019 20:59
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Not a Children posted:Well done! That's the hardest part. Just keep it up and wait for the offer. There's always something more to offer. "I'd like to know everything about the available benefits before I can appropriately assess salary" or "I will consider all reasonable offers" or "I need to confer with my family " (keep the family bit vague, they aren't allowed to ask about stuff like marital status) are all lines I've used to good effect. Thanks, I just need to tread lightly as I'm really interested in the role for non-salary reasons after hearing about it. Need to find the right balance between "that salary is perfectly acceptable" and "I want more" that doesn't cause them to lose interest in my application due to my being coy over salary... For her minimum salary of X, is there a way I can acknowledge that as being acceptable without immediately anchoring that as what they'd offer me? Something like "if that's an indication of your budget for the position, I am willing to discuss things further and see how the rest of the compensation package looks"? C-Euro fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Jun 12, 2019 |
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Jun 12, 2019 21:31
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C-Euro posted:Thanks, I just need to tread lightly as I'm really interested in the role for non-salary reasons after hearing about it. Need to find the right balance between "that salary is perfectly acceptable" and "I want more" that doesn't cause them to lose interest in my application due to my being coy over salary... I wouldn't say anything directly. Just wait until it comes up again organically. Trust me, they're not gonna forget. Just tell them that you're interested in the job and you're happy to consider any reasonable offer. Repeatedly, if necessary. Just stay polite and firm. If you're their first pick they will make you an offer, full stop. If you don't want to go through all that, it's perfectly acceptable if you already have an idea of what you'd like to make (and that number is well researched) to take that internal number, add 20%, and ask for that. It does help that they gave you a baseline, but you never know how high they were willing to go if you throw the number first.
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Jun 12, 2019 23:18
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C-Euro posted:Thanks, I just need to tread lightly as I'm really interested in the role for non-salary reasons after hearing about it. Need to find the right balance between "that salary is perfectly acceptable" and "I want more" that doesn't cause them to lose interest in my application due to my being coy over salary...
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Jun 13, 2019 01:31
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As I prep for this in-person job interview later this morning, I'm realizing that I'm a bit more senior than this role requires. I guess it's still interview experience and, if we get to the offer stage, I'll just use this as a chance to negotiate for better title/responsibilities/pay but I really should've paid more attention on this one. I've been apply to/getting contacted by a lot of companies that define level later in the process and job title descriptions don't reflect what level you may actually come into the organization (e.g., an advertised "Analyst" position could be a senior person or an entry-level person depending on their credentials, experience, etc.). I don't think that's the case here but we'll find out I guess!
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Jun 14, 2019 14:39
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I guess I'll repost this here because I'm proud of myself for finally doing this rightRex-Goliath posted:talked with the recruiter. he opened the convo with the ‘i don’t want to waste either of our time so what’s your base’ and i’ve been so fed up with that bullshit and also loving myself by answering it that i just replied with a flat ‘i’m not answering that question’ and letting the air hang. was genuinely ready to hang up but he recovered the convo and eventually came around to telling me what the base pay would be and if that was sufficient to move forward.
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Jun 14, 2019 16:00
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Hell yeah nice job
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Jun 14, 2019 18:44
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Rex-Goliath posted:I guess I'll repost this here because I'm proud of myself for finally doing this right Nice new thread title. Also good job. Feels good, right? I've only had to do the same once because the recruiter would not stop asking. It didn't go much further after that, which I consider a bullet dodged.
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Jun 14, 2019 18:58
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Rex-Goliath posted:I guess I'll repost this here because I'm proud of myself for finally doing this right Insanely good out come here. Even if this had gone the other way, if they didn't give you a number it would let you know their top priority is paying you as little as possible from the get-go.
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Jun 14, 2019 19:12
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Rex-Goliath posted:I guess I'll repost this here because I'm proud of myself for finally doing this right Nice, got my story from last week beat pretty badly.
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Jun 17, 2019 02:25
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I applied for an internal transfer after getting the O.K. from my current boss. It’d be a lateral transfer going from a general medicine business unit to an oncology one, which is specialized and can be very lucrative. People don’t typically go right into this oncology work, they either have worked in oncology before, or they get lucky after getting some experience and transfer into one of these roles. I don’t have particular oncology experience specific to this field, however, all my current tasks would be the same as the new ones, it would just be in a more demanding therapeutic area. I don’t know if this is pertinent info, but I’ve been told that I am in for promotion in November to grade 4 of 4 and I’m currently grade 3. The posting I applied to was grade 4. Since I travel frequently for work, I have a lot of free time in hotels. Last year I got a side gig doing some work which is about 10 hours per week and doesn’t compete for my normal 40 hours per week. I did not tell my current employer I was doing this, so they are not aware of it. It is work with oncology though, so I have read through the protocols and have gotten a good idea of the typical structure of the clinical trials. It isn’t something that “competes” with my current job either - it’s different from what I do now. Should I bring up the side gig that has given me a thorough understanding of oncology? Or would it better that I not mention it since they don’t currently know about it?
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Jun 17, 2019 21:10
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I’d lean towards saying you’re interested in it and have done research on your own that’s given you a better understanding. Nothing to gain by telling them you’re doing work on the side.
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Jun 17, 2019 21:16
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It should be in your employee handbook what type of moonlighting you can do. If you get the new job it may be a conflict and you would not be able to continue. Since you already work there you should know all the rules or have access to them. I would start there.
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Jun 17, 2019 21:53
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lol please never tell your current employer about anything you do outside of your actual job description
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Jun 18, 2019 02:31
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Thanks for the advice ITT.Eric the Mauve posted:lol please never tell your current employer about anything you do outside of your actual job description I hadn’t planned on it, but it might have made me a better candidate  . We’ll see what happens - if I don’t get it, no big deal. There will be future opportunities with my employer or others.
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Jun 18, 2019 03:24
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Hi thread.Rex-Goliath posted:I guess I'll repost this here because I'm proud of myself for finally doing this right Everyone should do this once. It's a personally transformative experience to be confrontational, and more importantly, to act like you don't need this particular recruiter or this particular job. The first time is really hard and you are probably not even believing it. But the truth of the matter is that NO one job and NO one recruiter is at all important in your life and you can do just fine letting them go on their merry way. It's an actual win/win. Be aloof; get salary from recruiter: You will find out information about what the employer is willing to pay, which is almost certainly misaligned with what you are willing to take if you named a number. How do I know this? Because you're still nervous about letting an opportunity slip through your fingers. Be aloof; get stonewalled by recruiter: You will find out that this recruiter's top and only priority is getting people as cheap as is possible, with no wiggle room. Which likely means ALL of your coworkers, managers, and support personnel are also likely as cheap as possible, and none of them understand how to negotiate effectively. The only losing move is to name a number first. Moreover, after you've done it once, the second time is easier. And with time it will be second nature to pass up bad opportunities.
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Jun 18, 2019 14:10
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How do you negotiate if you're trying to do an internal transfer and HR already knows your current salary?
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Jun 23, 2019 20:02
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You don’t. You negotiate with a different employer.
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Jun 23, 2019 20:28
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I told the person who handed me the offer for the internal move that I wanted more and here's why. A few days later he came back with an offer slightly higher than the initial but below my ask. I accepted.
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Jun 24, 2019 01:46
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Pretty good outcome considering you had very little leverage
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Jun 24, 2019 02:33
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Well, that's kind of what I thought but good to know.
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Jun 24, 2019 04:15
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He knew what I was making currently, yes. But I was ok with keeping my current job. I also had prospects in different departments I could pursue if I wanted to go in a different direction. But agreed! I considered it a good outcome for both parties.
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Jun 24, 2019 04:18
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I believe a lot of companies have strict rules about compensation changes for internal transfer to prevent poaching people by offering more.
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Jun 25, 2019 00:58
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That's true in my experience. I had 3 internal offers lined up with the thought that they would bid against each other but I was stonewalled by HR with just 1 offer.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:25
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At what point can I just lay out my salary requirements since I like the company but relocating would require me to get a really big number for me to consider it? I'm in the interview process at one of the big tech companies. So far I've put off the salary questions through the phone screen, phone interview, and on-site interview stages. Now my candidacy is going to a hiring committee for review, and the salary asked again for salary requirements (via e-mail). I put her off by asking if it was required to proceed to the hiring committee and asking for the salary range, since the position is in California. (I'm not sure how this works since they have openings for this job in a number of states, but are currently looking for someone in their California office). Also the (internal) recruiter is not in California, but the company is headquartered there. Anyhow, she said she was only trying to get ahead of the game in coming up with offers for me and that compensation numbers were not needed for my candidacy to proceed, but wanted to discuss further on the phone. Should I keep stalling and make her say the first number or just throw out what I want, which seems to be in range on the high side of what I am seeing on places like Paysa and levels.fyi?
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Jun 25, 2019 03:54
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Since the job is in California, they are legally obligated to give you a range for the position if you ask. Ask and then max out the range.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:58
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Aren't they only required to give salary and not total compensation? This doesn't seem that helpful as I doubt the recruiter is asking the salary you want, but rather total comp. If you don't know what to expect I'd highly suggest trying to hold out as FAANGesque companies tend to suprise people with how high an offer can be.
asur fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Jun 25, 2019 |
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Jun 25, 2019 04:28
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spf3million posted:I told the person who handed me the offer for the internal move that I wanted more and here's why. A few days later he came back with an offer slightly higher than the initial but below my ask. I accepted. Too bad they just can't compete with the external market that they know they're up against. A real shame that HR is just preventing them from paying you your market worth. Just tragic that they can't pay you your market worth. Really. Nothing can be done. 
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Jun 25, 2019 06:30
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The last internal transfer I made net me a 30% increase in salary, partly because I followed this thread’s rule of not offering a number first. But I think a cap was put in place sometime afterward. I’m also looking at positions that are a rank above my current one so I’ve got no idea how this will shake out.
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Jun 25, 2019 12:04
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My wife's last company had a rule where internal hires couldn't get more than a 5% salary increase. It's sure weird that their company has loving massive turn over.
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Jun 25, 2019 14:18
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10% rule here if moving up a grade.
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Jun 25, 2019 14:58
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bamhand posted:My wife's last company had a rule where internal hires couldn't get more than a 5% salary increase. It's sure weird that their company has loving massive turn over. My experience has been that most companies fall into one of two categories: those that almost never promote from within, and those that almost always promote from within (usually promoting people nearly new to the company at a 5% salary increase, thus paying managers as little as humanly possible). The former category is more common for sure, but you can see some real horror shows in the latter category (though it's mostly smaller businesses). edit: A friend who is currently underemployed interviewed recently with a small business for an operations director position. The second interview was with the CEO and CFO and after the standard round of "how much salary do you expect?" "that will depend on X/Y/Z" they told him the number they had in mind was $31,200. As in, $15 an hour times 40 hours a week. For a position office managers, who themselves have assistant managers under them, report to. This is in a semi-rural area, but  He told them (kind of assuming they were just clumsily trying to set a low anchor, you know) he was already making more than that in his current low-end supervisor role 5 minutes from his house, and they ended the interview. They promoted one of the office managers who had been with the company 9 months (3 of them spent on maternity leave) and then promoted up the chain. He found out that in its 50+ years of existence this company has never hired anyone above the office manager level from outside. They have three priorities when it comes to staffing: cheap, cheap, and cheap. I almost kind of admire their relentless dedication to it. I also wish I could short their stock. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Jun 25, 2019 |
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Jun 25, 2019 15:04
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So, I've been moving through a hiring process with a tech company in the Bay (I'm in Chicago) and I put the initial salary discussion on hold in typical fashion (need to know full scope of role, benefits package, etc.). Now that they want to fly me out for a final in-person interview with the team, the recruiter wants to have a quick chat around comp again to feel me out. I've never done a separate follow up call just on comp before an offer so not sure how to play this exactly. Their benefits are actually publicly available and the recruiter gave me the link after our initial call so I have that info but still don't want to throw out a number first since Bay area and I don't want to lowball myself. Any suggestions for this scenario?
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Jun 27, 2019 15:52
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bamhand posted:My wife's last company had a rule where internal hires couldn't get more than a 5% salary increase. It's sure weird that their company has loving massive turn over. My current company has a rule that "any new salary is based on your existing salary". It sucks. And has currently left me some $7000 a year less than the guy i replaced. Who was in another market. Where CoL is 20% less. The way people (several) have gotten big raises here, was by quitting, and being re-hired a month or 3 later at a competitive rate. I'm in "negotiations" for a title change and money to match the job i'm doing. Sadly, there's no negotiations here. I'm not aware of anyone, ever, being able to go "Uh, that number isn't enough", and getting something back. The only reason I've not abandoned my job and gone jobhunting, is I feel that the new title will put me in a better position for negotiating salary at the new job.
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Jun 27, 2019 17:42
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Chaotic Flame posted:So, I've been moving through a hiring process with a tech company in the Bay (I'm in Chicago) and I put the initial salary discussion on hold in typical fashion (need to know full scope of role, benefits package, etc.). Now that they want to fly me out for a final in-person interview with the team, the recruiter wants to have a quick chat around comp again to feel me out. I've never done a separate follow up call just on comp before an offer so not sure how to play this exactly. Their benefits are actually publicly available and the recruiter gave me the link after our initial call so I have that info but still don't want to throw out a number first since Bay area and I don't want to lowball myself. Any suggestions for this scenario? You can ask for the salary range of the position and they are required to give it in California. They don't need to include equity which is a pretty signficant part of your total compensation though. Not a Children gave the following in YOSPOS, "I'd like to evaluate the offer as a whole, including salary, benefits, and leave time. Please send me all available information and we can discuss after I've had a chance to review all aspects of compensation." or "I don't have a number in mind, but will consider any reasonable offer. I'm sure we can come to a mutually satisfying agreement.". I'd highly advocate continued deflection, but if you don't think you'll be able to do that then researching total compensation on levels.fyi and paysa and having a number in mind prior to the conversation is better than randomly throwing something out.
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Jun 27, 2019 19:40
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Chaotic Flame posted:So, I've been moving through a hiring process with a tech company in the Bay (I'm in Chicago) and I put the initial salary discussion on hold in typical fashion (need to know full scope of role, benefits package, etc.). Now that they want to fly me out for a final in-person interview with the team, the recruiter wants to have a quick chat around comp again to feel me out. I've never done a separate follow up call just on comp before an offer so not sure how to play this exactly. Their benefits are actually publicly available and the recruiter gave me the link after our initial call so I have that info but still don't want to throw out a number first since Bay area and I don't want to lowball myself. Any suggestions for this scenario? To add to the post above mine: you're in a pretty good position here to deflect, the recruiter can't do poo poo because you have a reasonable excuse for putting off money talk. Just tell him you want to get a better understanding of the full scope of the job experiences and find out whether it's a good fit. Nuance matters here: Do not say it in a way that explicitly defers money talk until later. Deflect completely and leave the ball in their court so they can't pester you about the number later "because you said you'd talk money after XYZ." Every day you buy in terms of talking to the potential employer is another day they've sunk into you, and another opportunity to show them something to further entice them. I wouldn't even ask for the range. Just go there, wow 'em, and let 'em stew til they cough up a number. Not a Children fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jun 28, 2019 |
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Jun 28, 2019 04:33
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What do I do in this situation? On the job application under salary I put "negotiable", then during the first phone interview the person asked me "I see you put negotiable for salary, what is your salary expectations?"
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Jun 28, 2019 06:09
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asur posted:You can ask for the salary range of the position and they are required to give it in California. They don't need to include equity which is a pretty signficant part of your total compensation though. Not a Children gave the following in YOSPOS, "I'd like to evaluate the offer as a whole, including salary, benefits, and leave time. Please send me all available information and we can discuss after I've had a chance to review all aspects of compensation." or "I don't have a number in mind, but will consider any reasonable offer. I'm sure we can come to a mutually satisfying agreement.". I'd highly advocate continued deflection, but if you don't think you'll be able to do that then researching total compensation on levels.fyi and paysa and having a number in mind prior to the conversation is better than randomly throwing something out. Not a Children posted:To add to the post above mine: you're in a pretty good position here to deflect, the recruiter can't do poo poo because you have a reasonable excuse for putting off money talk. Thank you both! This is helpful.
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Jun 28, 2019 08:17
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