|
While we're mage chatting: is there any good evidence supporting the pentacle's party line that the oracles built the watchtowers and oppose the exarchs? I feel like either of those ideas - that the oracles built the watchtowers, or that the oracles oppose the exarchs - could be complete bullshit. The exarchs seem to want to manage and control magic more than outright topple the watchtowers and end all awakenings, from what I can tell. And there doesn't seem to be much pointing to the watchtowers being even man-made structures, I feel like they might just be natural formations in parts of the supernal realms. I dunno, I guess I feel given how much relative power the exarchs have, both over the fallen world and the supernal realms, they might have tried moving against the watchtowers if they really wanted to.
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 16:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 23:08 |
|
|
tbh I always suspected the Exarchs built them. If you want game wardens to watch the nature preserve you need a way to hire them, afterall.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 16:47
|
|
|
^That exact question is something that's come up a few weeks in a row in my game. I kind of appreciate that there's not really a good answer, at least not one that's not hotly contested by every other mage ever. Makes magic seem bigger and smaller, and kind of puts some perspective on a single mage's location in everything. That doesn't keep my group from trying to communicate with the Oracles, nor should it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 16:50
|
|
|
One of the Seers' divine commands is 'conquer the Watchtowers' and the majority of Awakened don't receive Exarchic guidance during their Awakening. Wherever the Watchtowers come from, they're transparently not producing the results the Exarchs want by their actual expressed goals.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 16:51
|
|
|
Regardless of the truth of the Oracles, they're one of the aspects of the setting that Mages take on faith rather than because they've been there and have seen it. I like that, ironically for the same reasons that I dislike e.g. "what if the Supernal isn't actually as important as Mages think it is?"
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 16:52
|
|
|
Joe Slowboat posted:One of the Seers' divine commands is 'conquer the Watchtowers' and the majority of Awakened don't receive Exarchic guidance during their Awakening. Wherever the Watchtowers come from, they're transparently not producing the results the Exarchs want by their actual expressed goals. This does not mean the Exarchs couldn't have built the towers and that this is not the exact situation they want. The whole truth of the Exarchate is a Mystery, and what's really going on behind the Iron Seals, what plots and plans are roiling among the multitudinous thrones, is inscrutable. Considering the things they've told their servants have resulted in a pyramid scheme of backstabbing monsters who oppress themselves and each other for what they want, there's plenty of room for a lot of things to be calculated and not so direct. Or, rather, there's plenty of circumstances you can come up with as to why they'd tell their servants to conquer the Watchtowers, even if they did make those things themselves. Considering one of Mage's biggest inspirations, the Invisibles, had something of that nature as a big moment, I wouldn't write it out as a possibility.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 20:49
|
|
|
I wasn't saying the books explicitly rule out the Watchtowers as Exarchic creations, though I think that's a kinda boring twist. I was just saying that regardless of that, the Exarchs currently explicitly want the Watchtowers to be more under their control, so that only their faithful can Awaken. One of my favorite Seer legacies, the Epuiad, are all about that particular effort (and if they get more detail in Signs I will be very happy).
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 21:08
|
|
|
Joe Slowboat posted:One of my favorite Seer legacies, the Epuiad, are all about that particular effort (and if they get more detail in Signs I will be very happy). I think I removed the reference to them by name*, but the chapter on Awakenings should give you plenty of ideas. * purely for space, not being mean to a writer. I wrote most of the Awakening chapter, I wrote the chapter of Left Hand Path they're in, and I invented them for my own chronicle.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 21:14
|
|
|
Joe Slowboat posted:I wasn't saying the books explicitly rule out the Watchtowers as Exarchic creations, though I think that's a kinda boring twist. I was just saying that regardless of that, the Exarchs currently explicitly want the Watchtowers to be more under their control, so that only their faithful can Awaken.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 21:17
|
|
|
Dave Brookshaw posted:I think I removed the reference to them by name*, but the chapter on Awakenings should give you plenty of ideas. Unfortunately I already ran my players protecting a new Obrimos from an Epuiad Seer during her Awakening, which was a lot of fun. Like Signs in general, I'm going to get the book but my campaign is in its final stages and it's just a little too late to introduce new elements.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 21:26
|
|
|
Nessus posted:Yeah, "it was secretly all another layer of control by the unfuckable super-conspirators" is like the most boring answer possible. From Imperial Mysteries, another alternate theory; At some point, every Libertine enfant terrible says the Exarchs and Oracles are one and the same. It sounds cynical and mystical, so Free Council Assem- blies would eat it up if it wasn’t a hoary cliché. One variant is of interest, however. In 1914, the Libertine priest Severian said the Exarchs were dead Oracles. The Oracles are long-lived but mortal; when they perish they pass into Nirvana, beyond all realms, but their desires rot and howl in the Supernal. These ghosts represent forgotten Watchtowers and toy with the Fallen World for the same reasons ordinary ghosts repeat certain actions, or seek out mortal emotions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 21:55
|
|
|
Yikes. Some Wraith vibes there, though there's probably enough tyranny in Sin-Eater's underworld.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2019 22:02
|
|
|
The entire chapter on Awakenings, particularly the bit on interfering with Adytons and the Silver Ladder's take on it, is all one of my players ever wanted.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2019 00:18
|
|
|
Dave Brookshaw posted:From Imperial Mysteries, another alternate theory;
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2019 01:49
|
|
|
bewilderment posted:The entire chapter on Awakenings, particularly the bit on interfering with Adytons and the Silver Ladder's take on it, is all one of my players ever wanted. What's an Adyton, for those of us without the book?
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2019 05:46
|
|
|
Joe Slowboat posted:What's an Adyton, for those of us without the book? quote:Adyton: The symbolic journey, challenges, and entities encountered by someone undergoing an Awakening. The “narrative” of that Awakening. Many Pentacle mages will observe an Awakening given the chance, but the Orders frown upon actively becoming part of the Adyton.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2019 06:00
|
|
|
Oh hey, that is... mostly how the cabal went about things in my game! Mostly. Useful term to have for the Ladder mage in the cabal, at least, given her extreme interest in Awakenings. (They did sort of play a role in the Adyton but not really on purpose - the Awakening teen was brought face to face with the existence of mages, as a Sleepwalker, before she Awakened, and a large part of her Adyton was accepting that nothing she had believed or understood could be entirely trusted and deciding she was ready to burn any received wisdom as fuel, including the cabal's previous guidance when they saved her from being trapped in the Temenos. During the actual Mystery Play visions she vanished out from under their loose surveilance and they followed along behind before entering her Oneiros to kick a Seer out.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2019 06:24
|
|
|
Two questions about Changeling the Lost 2E: 1) Is there a book which goes into greater detail about how to run Hedge scenes? My players are all heavy with Hedge contracts so it looks like that's what we'll be doing. 2) Is there a design bible for Changeling? Or a book with details on how to design effective Gentry?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 04:53
|
|
|
Weird question here and I'd like to stay as above board as we can if possible. Setting: V5 set in LA, coterie is a bunch of lowish power anarchs. One of the PCs has a no-women/children feeding clause, but he's also kinda homophobic so it makes feeding a little weird. It doesn't help that he also went to a gay club and started attacking people ( not a homophobia thing, just trying to prevent a masquerade breach). Now to get around this the player brought up that he could feed on trans women to get around this penalty. Would the feeding penalty be what the vampire perceives? But what if the vampire is aware? Or just goes for men dressed as women? Sorry again i know this is weird but I'm new to the mechanics edit: the VAMPIRE is homophobic/transphobic, not the actually player Blitz of 404 Error fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Jun 24, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 05:57
|
|
|
Blitz7x posted:Now to get around this the player brought up that he could feed on trans women to get around this penalty. quote:But what if the vampire is aware? Or just goes for men dressed as women? quote:edit: the VAMPIRE is homophobic/transphobic, not the actually player If the player is referring to trans women as “men dressed as women”, then your last statement here isn’t correct. If it’s you referring to them that way, maybe give that a bit of a rethink.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 06:24
|
|
|
Blitz7x posted:Weird question here and I'd like to stay as above board as we can if possible. Are we talking a rules-enforced feeding restriction here? Since you asked to keep it above-board: just probably say no. There's something potentially interesting in there but it's buried inside a minefield and if a player came to me with that idea for a standard table game I would nope the idea immediately. PantsOptional posted:If the player is referring to trans women as “men dressed as women”, then your last statement here isn’t correct. Also this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 06:26
|
|
|
PantsOptional posted:If the player is referring to trans women as “men dressed as women”, then your last statement here isn’t correct. Sorry, I wasn't clear, that was a further question. ie, what if the person wasn't trans, but was androgynous enough that the vampire thought they were a different gender
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 06:35
|
|
|
Blitz7x posted:Sorry, I wasn't clear, that was a further question. ie, what if the person wasn't trans, but was androgynous enough that the vampire thought they were a different gender If it was for general hunting rolls I would not worry about it. Is your concern that there is a non-cis NPC who might have their birth-assigned gender revealed if this PC puts the bite on them? e: If this is a question more on where the locus of decision on a Ventrue's feeding restriction is, I would place it on the victim's traits rather than the vampire's perceptions. It's a curse. Nessus fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jun 24, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 06:56
|
|
|
Even more awkward, for Kindred, it could be either. Is it a vitae borne curse that prevents them feeding from a gender? (If so, you totally should have it work, because a supernatural curse gives no fucks about genetics, it’s the point that counts) or is it just a decision by the Vampire, because that Vampire has the issue? Personally this feels like no good can come of it and the only reason it’ll ever be brought up is to incite drama, but I tend to parse any attempts by people to be ‘cute’ with gender issues as intentional, you do you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 07:37
|
|
|
I would say both the person *and* the Vampire's biases count. It's a curse. I would also have words with the player, but YMMV.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 07:49
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:Even more awkward, for Kindred, it could be either. Is it a vitae borne curse that prevents them feeding from a gender? (If so, you totally should have it work, because a supernatural curse gives no fucks about genetics, it’s the point that counts) or is it just a decision by the Vampire, because that Vampire has the issue? It is an "Only X" condition, with X being some trait of humans-in-general that the vampire, when sired, is aware of and can reasonably perceive. (Thus, "Only priests" or "Only Thracians" could be valid.) While this can be a category with almost nobody in it, it will not be literally impossible for the childe to fulfill. (An English Ventrue embraced in the 11th century will not have an "Only Navajo" feeding condition, although she might have "Only Turks.") This is fixed, although there is a little flex room; "Thracian" may be defined as the people from that area, although presumably there is some genotype that must be met for the Ventrue to feed. However, if the Thracians are exterminated, that Ventrue is SOL. This would of course also explain why many Ventrue may do things beneficial to specific human sub-populations.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 07:49
|
|
|
Digital Osmosis posted:While we're mage chatting: is there any good evidence supporting the pentacle's party line that the oracles built the watchtowers and oppose the exarchs? I feel like either of those ideas - that the oracles built the watchtowers, or that the oracles oppose the exarchs - could be complete bullshit. The exarchs seem to want to manage and control magic more than outright topple the watchtowers and end all awakenings, from what I can tell. And there doesn't seem to be much pointing to the watchtowers being even man-made structures, I feel like they might just be natural formations in parts of the supernal realms. Signs of Sorcery states there is absolutely no evidence for their existence. The Silver Ladder supposed that someone must have constructed the Watchtowers and it couldn't have been the Exarchs, because this would make their struggle pointless. An Ascended role model for Pentacle mages seemed useful, so they decided to go with that and the Oracles existence is an established dogma among the thearchs. The rest of the Pentacle is more sceptical.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 10:00
|
|
|
Can a Changeling trade for a Mage's Supernal knowledge? They can barter for all kinds of other immaterial things. So if they can find a Mage willing to make this deal, could they obtain some second-hand Gnosis? Or knowledge of a certain Arcana? And if so, can the Changeling absorb that knowledge into themselves, and become a Mage? Or would the raw Truth drive them nuts, or burn a hole in their brain and turn them into a vegetable? What about giving the bartered Gnosis away to a different Mage? Could they absorb it into themselves, and effectively cheat their way to higher Supernal understanding?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 10:31
|
|
|
Boron_the_Moron posted:Can a Changeling trade for a Mage's Supernal knowledge? They can barter for all kinds of other immaterial things. So if they can find a Mage willing to make this deal, could they obtain some second-hand Gnosis? Or knowledge of a certain Arcana? You would have to ask Meghan about Changeling, but I would look at the rules for absorbing other people's soul stones as a starting point for what horror to inflict on a mage who grafts anothers' Gnosis onto themselves.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 15:47
|
|
|
I mean there's always the risk of going Sam Haight with it [Or, conversely, the hilarity of saying "Screw it" and going Sam Haight with it], but it's interesting to think about the metaphysical weirdness of it all. There you are, a well meaning skinthief. Probably a little crazy, your occult weirdness is weird even for the CoD, but just trying to get by. Maybe you decide one day "Hey, you know what? I'mma skin a ghost mage! That seems like a good idea to my eclectic world view.". Well, I mean it's still a ghost, so I guess it should technically work? There's no reason I can think of it *wouldn't* work. The thief isn't actually picking up Gnosis, they are just sort of channeling the Gnosis of the spirit they are wearing. The spirit could do it, they can do it. They get a Ban, a Bane, Influences, Numina, they get all the other parts of a spirit. It should work. Well ok, so now you have some rando that sometimes turns into a ghost mage. He's wandering around, getting into occult tomfoolery as one does, and he happens upon a Deathmask. And wow, free mask! Might as well put it on. Well now you have two questions to ask: What happens when a ghost mage puts on a Deathmask, and what happens when a skinthief wearing a ghost mage puts on a Deathmask? Is a ghost a ghost, period? I mean a mage would summon up a ghost mage much the same as any other ghost, by and large. Philosophically many of the more traditional mages would call it just another echo of a dead person, only special for the knowledge it has and the powers it wields. So you now have a Reaper ghost mage? But then we have the follow-up. Is the thief ghost enough that they'd now be a Reaper when transformed? It's not like the condition is entirely binary, a Reaper who takes the mask off is functionally back to being like any other ghost. It's basically just a magic item that gives a power up [And problem some mental issues but hey, who isn't packing a bunch of those?]. And you can go on and on down that rabbit hole, and many others like it. The answer is generally "What would be the most hilarious outcome?" in game, but it's a laugh trying to make it all work for realsies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 16:30
|
|
|
A Changeling feeding on Gnosis is just an Acamoth with an especially good scam going. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 16:35
|
|
|
Blitz7x posted:Weird question here and I'd like to stay as above board as we can if possible. Wait why did he make a homophobic vampire in the first place? Projection much? Seriously how did the ST even allow the situation to get like this in the first placs
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 16:57
|
|
|
The concept sends up a ton of redflags and the only way I’d ever come close to considering allowing that kind of thing to come up is if the player is trans themselves.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 18:55
|
|
|
Yeah, frankly why are you entertaining this bigotry at all?
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2019 19:09
|
|
|
so i've been in this group playing vampire for a bit and I made a sandman predator type. Whenever I go to feed the story teller (vampire master? idk im new at this) starts detailing it almost in a fetish like sense. It's pretty uncomfortable listening to it but I don't want to make the experience less fun for him how do I go about dealing with this?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 01:42
|
|
|
Tell him it's pretty uncomfortable listening to it and could he tone down the sexualization of your scenes. You don't want to reduce his fun, but ideally, he shouldn't want to reduce your fun, either. You should be able to negotiate a position that can be enjoyable for the both of you.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 01:58
|
|
|
You ask to set up boundaries. Honestly, this is something that should talked about doing character creation. What sort of time is the game going for, what the combat/intrigue ratio is, and most importantly, what levels of violence and sexual content are the players comfortable with
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 01:58
|
|
|
There's a guy in my group who made a Lasombra who never shapeshifts and is always shaking like he has Parkinson's or something? He doesn't do anything at all, and put all of his points on his character sheet into guns despite not owning a gun. In the middle of our session he screams "WELCOME!" in a nasally voice while his character points a camcorder to his face (despite being invisible in the lens due to Lasombra) and drinking special edition sodas and eating Lunchables even though vampires don't eat or drink? Unless he throws it up somehow afterwards, but he never elaborates. In fact, whenever he needs blood he pours it from oda cans(???) He cracks the drink open, breathes heavily into his microphone and splashes what I assume is Coke Zero all over his own microphone and glass/table. I...appreciate his dedication to the character, but to be completely honest with you all I don't think he truly appreciates the serious tone the World of Darkness universe brings to the proverbial table and it makes any interaction with him an absolute chore. Absolutely useless character, and he doesn't die. His rolls are just too good and I suspect he's using some sort of weighted dice to make sure he plagues our existence with either himself or a gruff sounded alter ego he created last week named "Darnation Rob". Darnation isn't even a word. Is there any way I can help ease him into taking the game with some modicum of seriousness? I am here to tell stories and create meaningful characters in a unique and interesting environment, not...whatever this is. Thank you all in advance, I think you're all doing great in here talking about vampires and I love reading your opinions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 02:21
|
|
|
Naoto Shirogane posted:There's a guy in my group who made a Lasombra who never shapeshifts and is always shaking like he has Parkinson's or something? He doesn't do anything at all, and put all of his points on his character sheet into guns despite not owning a gun. In the middle of our session he screams "WELCOME!" in a nasally voice while his character points a camcorder to his face (despite being invisible in the lens due to Lasombra) and drinking special edition sodas and eating Lunchables even though vampires don't eat or drink? Unless he throws it up somehow afterwards, but he never elaborates. In fact, whenever he needs blood he pours it from oda cans(???) He cracks the drink open, breathes heavily into his microphone and splashes what I assume is Coke Zero all over his own microphone and glass/table. I...appreciate his dedication to the character, but to be completely honest with you all I don't think he truly appreciates the serious tone the World of Darkness universe brings to the proverbial table and it makes any interaction with him an absolute chore. Absolutely useless character, and he doesn't die. His rolls are just too good and I suspect he's using some sort of weighted dice to make sure he plagues our existence with either himself or a gruff sounded alter ego he created last week named "Darnation Rob". Darnation isn't even a word. I agree on the rest but darnation is a perfectly cromulent word and I will fight you to the death over it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 02:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 23:08 |
|
|
Blitz7x posted:Weird question here and I'd like to stay as above board as we can if possible. The correct answer to this is 'gently caress off or stop doing this'.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2019 02:47
|
|
